Since Samsung doesn't provide shipped figures and Apple doesn't provide US only figures where are these numbers coming from? Or are they just guesses like IDC?
Since Samsung doesn't provide shipped figures and Apple doesn't provide US only figures where are these numbers coming from? Or are they just guesses like IDC?
They're estimates from various sources.
What they fail to mention is that when Samsung was ordered to release actual sales figures in the Apple trial, the numbers were far lower than the estimates - and the analysts never changed their numbers or methodologies, so these numbers may be too high, as well.
As usual, you're misreading the data so that you can say negative things about Apple.
The data does not say that the smartphone market only grew by 4%. The data includes both smartphones AND feature phones (which Apple doesn't make). The total market declined for the year and only grew by 4% for the quarter, but it doesn't say how much of that was from smartphone and how much from feature phones. I am guessing that the number of smartphones grew faster than the number of feature phones.
Of course, if that WAS the real smartphone number, then Apple's massive iPhone sales last quarter ought to be even bigger news.
"As usual"
What previous year did US mobile phone sales fall YOY? Would you not consider that a concern to smartphone manufacturers dependent on the US for growth? If so, then I'm curious just what half of my comments you actually disagree with: The US won't be the major driver for iPhone revenue growth going forward, or China won't be increasingly important to Apple? You must think only Apple would be significantly affected by a flat US market to assume my post must have been anti-Apple. Why is that?
Seems to me this report piggybacks well with the recent notice from Samsung that they expect softness in mature markets such as the US.
Anyway, the report did include the estimated US numbers for those that overlooked it:
"We estimate Apple shipped 17.7 million mobile phones for a record 34 percent share of the United States market in the fourth quarter of 2012. This was up sharply from 12.8 million units shipped and 25 percent share in Q4 2011....
Samsung shipped 16.8 million mobile phones in the United States, for 32 percent share, during Q4 2012."
With the release of the iPhone 5, a great quarter for Apple without a doubt. If they release a major upgrade to their phone every quarter and all the Apple faithful flock to it and buy it each quarter, they could probably sustainably stay on top.
Something that might be of some concern is the mention of smartphone market contraction. Note that the total market increased only 4% over the holiday period compared to the previous year, and was down over the entire year. That a big reason that Apple sees China as so important. The US isn't going to be the driver for big iPhone revenue gains anymore
That's true but it's still nice to be leading in the developed markets because people have more money to spend on apps and content once they have the device.
These numbers are even more damning, because one Apple customer is probably worth at least 7.5 Android users. There's hardly any money to be made from Android users, and that's why it's funny when Fandroids always talk about "activations" and other unverifiable numbers in order to make themselves feel good. When the inferior junk can't even outsell a premium brand like Apple, then what will the devotees of cheap junk have now? Answer: Nothing.
At this point, anytime someone writes "market share" or similar terms, I have to totally ignore their comment as having any functionality. Apple is taking in over 70% of the PROFIT in the smartphone sector worldwide. So yeah, that must be a bad thing.
People seem to like Apple phones so much that even the iPhone 4 is selling very well. When was the last time that you ever heard anyone talk about buying a Samsung phone that was 3 generations old. (Plastic is good, newest is best-ist, buy a phone every year cause they don't last and besides, this one has some new - nearly worthless feature.)
Just a thought there.
And to Saltwater, if you were missing a "/s" then good article. If not, it was a pretty bad mishmash of blogged comments from Samsung trolls.. Just my thought.
What previous year did US mobile phone sales fall YOY? Would you not consider that a concern to smartphone manufacturers dependent on the US for growth? If so, then I'm curious just what half of my comments you actually disagree with: The US won't be the major driver for iPhone revenue growth going forward, or China won't be increasingly important to Apple? You must think only Apple would be significantly affected by a flat US market to assume my post must have been anti-Apple. Why is that?
Seems to me this report piggybacks well with the recent notice from Samsung that they expect softness in mature markets such as the US.
<span style="font-family:Arial, Verdana;font-size:small;line-height:19.25px;text-align:justify;">Anyway, the report did include the estimated US numbers for those that overlooked it:</span>
<span style="font-family:Arial, Verdana;font-size:small;line-height:19.25px;text-align:justify;">"We estimate Apple shipped 17.7 million mobile phones for a record 34 percent share of the United States market in the fourth quarter of 2012. This was up sharply from 12.8 million units shipped and 25 percent share in Q4 2011....</span>
<span style="font-family:Arial, Verdana;font-size:small;line-height:19.25px;text-align:justify;">Samsung shipped 16.8 million mobile phones in the United States, for 32 percent share, during Q4 2012."</span>
Once again, you're confusing "mobile phones" with "Smartphones".
The entire mobile phone market was down 4%. Apple only sells smartphones and they were up about 40%. This report doesn't indicate anything negative for Apple as you keep implying. It simply states that the market is switching from feature phones to smartphones.
What they fail to mention is that when Samsung was ordered to release actual sales figures in the Apple trial, the numbers were far lower than the estimates - and the analysts never changed their numbers or methodologies, so these numbers may be too high, as well.
"As usual" you're misstating the facts.
What the court evidence referenced were numbers for those specific handsets that Apple included in it's complaint, and of course only those sold in the US.market. There were never any previously published estimate breakouts for that very specific set of handsets to compare to, so how could they be "much lower than estimates"?
There were a whole lotta handsets that weren't included in the court count. It did not include many of the newer Samsung handsets then being sold in the US, nor even any that had been redesigned and rebadged to avoid Apple's claims. Sales numbers for handsets like the The Galaxy Note, Mini2, Ace Plus, Ace 2, Galaxy Beam, Galaxy S Advance and probably a few others weren't included. So it really didn't prove what you claim it did: That "the numbers were far lower than the estimates".
It doesn't mean the estimates from IDC are accurate of course, but your argument also doesn't serve as proof they're not.
Once again, you're confusing "mobile phones" with "Smartphones".
The entire mobile phone market was down 4%. Apple only sells smartphones and they were up about 40%. This report doesn't indicate anything negative for Apple as you keep implying. It simply states that the market is switching from feature phones to smartphones.
Ah, so that's your only quibble. I inaccurately mentioned "smartphone contraction" in the first sentence, which you're absolutely correct to point out.
Other than that you agree with the rest of my comments. Apple will need to rely less on the US as a revenue increase driver for the iPhone and more on China?
What the court evidence referenced were numbers for those specific handsets that Apple included in it's complaint, and of course only those sold in the US.market. There were never any previously published estimate breakouts for that very specific set of handsets to compare to, so how could they be "much lower than estimates"?
There were a whole lotta handsets that weren't included in the court count. It did not include many of the newer Samsung handsets then being sold in the US, nor even any that had been redesigned and rebadged to avoid Apple's claims. Sales numbers for handsets like the The Galaxy Note, Mini2, Ace Plus, Ace 2, Galaxy Beam, Galaxy S Advance and probably a few others weren't included. So it really didn't prove what you claim it did: That "the numbers were far lower than the estimates".
It doesn't mean the estimates from IDC are accurate of course, but your argument also doesn't serve as proof they're not.
This is true, however, the handsets that you listed (except for the Note) are on the low end of their line (smartphone-lite). That would mean Apple has been going toe-to-toe in sales without even competing in many of the same realms (extreme low end). That sounds pretty good to me. Would I rather sell two million widgets at $100 each or one million widgets at $600?
Oh, and I am glad that you admit that Samsung copied some of Apple's designs and functions so closely that they had to "redesign and rebadge" to avoid claims against Apple. I mean, if you're innocent, why change what you're doing?
Ah, so that's your only quibble. I inaccurately mentioned "smartphone contraction" in the first sentence, which you're absolutely correct to point out.
Other than that you agree with the rest of my comments. Apple will need to rely less on the US as a revenue increase driver for the iPhone and more on China?
His explanation isn't smartphone contraction though. It's actually feature phone contraction with smartphone growth. Once there is a plateau of switchers from feature to smart and the overall market ceases to grow or contract, THEN you could say smartphone contraction. Just because the overall market went down or stayed the same doesn't mean smartphone sales are shrinking or are stagnant.
The story would have been much more compelling if the last column were removed.
To you, yeah, because you enjoy everything that isn't Apple.
But with it there, we see that Apple nearly doubled shipments while Samsung went up one percent. And that Apple doubled marketshare while Samsung went up three percent.
Oh, and I am glad that you admit that Samsung copied some of Apple's designs and functions so closely that they had to "redesign and rebadge" to avoid claims against Apple. I mean, if you're innocent, why change what you're doing?
Heck, I said that months ago, and haven't ever written differently.I've always been of the opinion Samsung strayed too close to Apple's iPhone look and marketing and said so in numerous forum posts. They deserved a court loss.
Heck, I said that months ago, and haven't ever written differently.I've always been of the opinion Samsung strayed too close to Apple's iPhone look and marketing and said so in numerous forum posts. They deserved a court loss.
I apologize. I had taken a hiatus from reading and posting months ago but I do remember a year or so ago where you didn't seem to think that.
Something that might be of some concern is the mention of smartphone market contraction. Note that the total market increased only 4% over the holiday period compared to the previous year, and was down over the entire year. That a big reason that Apple sees China as so important. The US isn't going to be the driver for big iPhone revenue gains anymore
"Overall, the research firm said customer demand for 4G smartphones and 3G feature phones spurred U.S. shipments to 52 million units, a 4 percent increase from last year's 50.2 million units. The strong performance in the holiday quarter wasn't enough to make up for nine months of market contraction, however, which resulted in an 11 percent decline from 186.8 million units in 2011 to 166.9 million units in 2012."
No, it is actually good for Apple. It means Apple is taking market share from other makers not losing like the 'Market' is afraid.
I apologize. I had taken a hiatus from reading and posting months ago but I do remember a year or so ago where you didn't seem to think that.
I think you've mistakenly associated someone else's post(s) with mine. I've never considered Samsung to be innocent. No biggie.
Anyway I personally believe that any contraction like that shown last year in US overall mobile phone sales should be and is a concern to the market players, Apple included. I think that's a big reason for Apple's attention to China, and the numerous recent Apple comments and industry articles on the importance of China to Apple's future growth.
Comments
All that matters is profitability.
That's just one quarter, still behind for the year, but it's a good sign. Go Apple!
Since Samsung doesn't provide shipped figures and Apple doesn't provide US only figures where are these numbers coming from? Or are they just guesses like IDC?
They're estimates from various sources.
What they fail to mention is that when Samsung was ordered to release actual sales figures in the Apple trial, the numbers were far lower than the estimates - and the analysts never changed their numbers or methodologies, so these numbers may be too high, as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
As usual, you're misreading the data so that you can say negative things about Apple.
The data does not say that the smartphone market only grew by 4%. The data includes both smartphones AND feature phones (which Apple doesn't make). The total market declined for the year and only grew by 4% for the quarter, but it doesn't say how much of that was from smartphone and how much from feature phones. I am guessing that the number of smartphones grew faster than the number of feature phones.
Of course, if that WAS the real smartphone number, then Apple's massive iPhone sales last quarter ought to be even bigger news.
"As usual"
What previous year did US mobile phone sales fall YOY? Would you not consider that a concern to smartphone manufacturers dependent on the US for growth? If so, then I'm curious just what half of my comments you actually disagree with: The US won't be the major driver for iPhone revenue growth going forward, or China won't be increasingly important to Apple? You must think only Apple would be significantly affected by a flat US market to assume my post must have been anti-Apple. Why is that?
Seems to me this report piggybacks well with the recent notice from Samsung that they expect softness in mature markets such as the US.
Anyway, the report did include the estimated US numbers for those that overlooked it:
"We estimate Apple shipped 17.7 million mobile phones for a record 34 percent share of the United States market in the fourth quarter of 2012. This was up sharply from 12.8 million units shipped and 25 percent share in Q4 2011....
Samsung shipped 16.8 million mobile phones in the United States, for 32 percent share, during Q4 2012."
With the release of the iPhone 5, a great quarter for Apple without a doubt. If they release a major upgrade to their phone every quarter and all the Apple faithful flock to it and buy it each quarter, they could probably sustainably stay on top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Something that might be of some concern is the mention of smartphone market contraction. Note that the total market increased only 4% over the holiday period compared to the previous year, and was down over the entire year. That a big reason that Apple sees China as so important. The US isn't going to be the driver for big iPhone revenue gains anymore
That's true but it's still nice to be leading in the developed markets because people have more money to spend on apps and content once they have the device.
These numbers are even more damning, because one Apple customer is probably worth at least 7.5 Android users. There's hardly any money to be made from Android users, and that's why it's funny when Fandroids always talk about "activations" and other unverifiable numbers in order to make themselves feel good. When the inferior junk can't even outsell a premium brand like Apple, then what will the devotees of cheap junk have now? Answer: Nothing.
People seem to like Apple phones so much that even the iPhone 4 is selling very well. When was the last time that you ever heard anyone talk about buying a Samsung phone that was 3 generations old. (Plastic is good, newest is best-ist, buy a phone every year cause they don't last and besides, this one has some new - nearly worthless feature.)
Just a thought there.
And to Saltwater, if you were missing a "/s" then good article. If not, it was a pretty bad mishmash of blogged comments from Samsung trolls.. Just my thought.
Once again, you're confusing "mobile phones" with "Smartphones".
The entire mobile phone market was down 4%. Apple only sells smartphones and they were up about 40%. This report doesn't indicate anything negative for Apple as you keep implying. It simply states that the market is switching from feature phones to smartphones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
They're estimates from various sources.
What they fail to mention is that when Samsung was ordered to release actual sales figures in the Apple trial, the numbers were far lower than the estimates - and the analysts never changed their numbers or methodologies, so these numbers may be too high, as well.
"As usual" you're misstating the facts.
What the court evidence referenced were numbers for those specific handsets that Apple included in it's complaint, and of course only those sold in the US.market. There were never any previously published estimate breakouts for that very specific set of handsets to compare to, so how could they be "much lower than estimates"?
There were a whole lotta handsets that weren't included in the court count. It did not include many of the newer Samsung handsets then being sold in the US, nor even any that had been redesigned and rebadged to avoid Apple's claims. Sales numbers for handsets like the The Galaxy Note, Mini2, Ace Plus, Ace 2, Galaxy Beam, Galaxy S Advance and probably a few others weren't included. So it really didn't prove what you claim it did: That "the numbers were far lower than the estimates".
It doesn't mean the estimates from IDC are accurate of course, but your argument also doesn't serve as proof they're not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Once again, you're confusing "mobile phones" with "Smartphones".
The entire mobile phone market was down 4%. Apple only sells smartphones and they were up about 40%. This report doesn't indicate anything negative for Apple as you keep implying. It simply states that the market is switching from feature phones to smartphones.
Ah, so that's your only quibble. I inaccurately mentioned "smartphone contraction" in the first sentence, which you're absolutely correct to point out.
Other than that you agree with the rest of my comments. Apple will need to rely less on the US as a revenue increase driver for the iPhone and more on China?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
"As usual" you're misstating the facts.
What the court evidence referenced were numbers for those specific handsets that Apple included in it's complaint, and of course only those sold in the US.market. There were never any previously published estimate breakouts for that very specific set of handsets to compare to, so how could they be "much lower than estimates"?
There were a whole lotta handsets that weren't included in the court count. It did not include many of the newer Samsung handsets then being sold in the US, nor even any that had been redesigned and rebadged to avoid Apple's claims. Sales numbers for handsets like the The Galaxy Note, Mini2, Ace Plus, Ace 2, Galaxy Beam, Galaxy S Advance and probably a few others weren't included. So it really didn't prove what you claim it did: That "the numbers were far lower than the estimates".
It doesn't mean the estimates from IDC are accurate of course, but your argument also doesn't serve as proof they're not.
This is true, however, the handsets that you listed (except for the Note) are on the low end of their line (smartphone-lite). That would mean Apple has been going toe-to-toe in sales without even competing in many of the same realms (extreme low end). That sounds pretty good to me. Would I rather sell two million widgets at $100 each or one million widgets at $600?
Oh, and I am glad that you admit that Samsung copied some of Apple's designs and functions so closely that they had to "redesign and rebadge" to avoid claims against Apple. I mean, if you're innocent, why change what you're doing?
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Ah, so that's your only quibble. I inaccurately mentioned "smartphone contraction" in the first sentence, which you're absolutely correct to point out.
Other than that you agree with the rest of my comments. Apple will need to rely less on the US as a revenue increase driver for the iPhone and more on China?
His explanation isn't smartphone contraction though. It's actually feature phone contraction with smartphone growth. Once there is a plateau of switchers from feature to smart and the overall market ceases to grow or contract, THEN you could say smartphone contraction. Just because the overall market went down or stayed the same doesn't mean smartphone sales are shrinking or are stagnant.
Originally Posted by MacRulez
The story would have been much more compelling if the last column were removed.
To you, yeah, because you enjoy everything that isn't Apple.
But with it there, we see that Apple nearly doubled shipments while Samsung went up one percent. And that Apple doubled marketshare while Samsung went up three percent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh
Oh, and I am glad that you admit that Samsung copied some of Apple's designs and functions so closely that they had to "redesign and rebadge" to avoid claims against Apple. I mean, if you're innocent, why change what you're doing?
Heck, I said that months ago, and haven't ever written differently. I've always been of the opinion Samsung strayed too close to Apple's iPhone look and marketing and said so in numerous forum posts. They deserved a court loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Heck, I said that months ago, and haven't ever written differently. I've always been of the opinion Samsung strayed too close to Apple's iPhone look and marketing and said so in numerous forum posts. They deserved a court loss.
I apologize. I had taken a hiatus from reading and posting months ago but I do remember a year or so ago where you didn't seem to think that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Something that might be of some concern is the mention of smartphone market contraction. Note that the total market increased only 4% over the holiday period compared to the previous year, and was down over the entire year. That a big reason that Apple sees China as so important. The US isn't going to be the driver for big iPhone revenue gains anymore
"Overall, the research firm said customer demand for 4G smartphones and 3G feature phones spurred U.S. shipments to 52 million units, a 4 percent increase from last year's 50.2 million units. The strong performance in the holiday quarter wasn't enough to make up for nine months of market contraction, however, which resulted in an 11 percent decline from 186.8 million units in 2011 to 166.9 million units in 2012."
No, it is actually good for Apple. It means Apple is taking market share from other makers not losing like the 'Market' is afraid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh
I apologize. I had taken a hiatus from reading and posting months ago but I do remember a year or so ago where you didn't seem to think that.
I think you've mistakenly associated someone else's post(s) with mine. I've never considered Samsung to be innocent. No biggie.
Anyway I personally believe that any contraction like that shown last year in US overall mobile phone sales should be and is a concern to the market players, Apple included. I think that's a big reason for Apple's attention to China, and the numerous recent Apple comments and industry articles on the importance of China to Apple's future growth.
We'll see as the year goes on.