That or March 1st and Europe will go dark for a few months as the new Mac Pro could be introduced on June 19th, the very last day of Spring in the Northern Hemisphere. Hey, they said iMac would be available in November and it was... November 30th!
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/
/
Right, but at least there won't be any display manufacturing issues. So probably not as much delay as for the iMac.
- right now Intel doesn't have a Xeon chipset for USB 3, SATA 6G, PCIe3 etc - Apple would have to add those themselves without a new chipset
From the above link:
"What remains to be seen is if Intel will launch a new chipset, along with the release of the Ivy Bride-E processors. If history repeats itself, expect Intel to release a new chipset with Ivy Bridge-E to replace the X79 chipset. As with the current Ivy Bridge, Intel released a new chipset with the transfer to the Ivy Bridge processor, though it made certain current LGA 1155 chipsets were compatible. With current X79 chipsets not fully certified for PCIe 3.0, we look for the new chipset to be fully PCIe 3.0 certified, along with other features being implemented with the Lynx Point Chipset on the "Haswell" platform."
If it was coming in early Spring, they either have an early exclusive for both the chipset and the processor (they had a short exclusive with the 2010 model) or they'd be going with Sandy Bridge (2 year old architecture at that point) with likely USB 2, SATA 3G and PCIe 2.
A more likely outcome is that they will launch it at WWDC in early June with Ivy Bridge E and it will have a new chipset supporting USB 3, PCIe 3, SATA 6G and maybe even Thunderbolt. This will mean Europe will have to survive on reseller supplies for 3-4 months so they'd need about 1 million units to avoid all professional creative work grinding to a halt - TV ads will stop running, there will be no music, websites wil revert to text-only and we'll all have to start playing board games instead of going to the movies. The horror. But no, the iMac survived with a 5 week hiatus for the 21.5" and longer for the 27" so a June launch wouldn't be the end of the world and it might have to ship in July if they don't get a short exclusive.
You're looking at the wrong chipset and drifting off into hyperbole (2 year old architecture when sandy bridge EP workstations didn't ship until early Q3 2012). They would use one of the C600 type chipsets unless they switch to completely different parts. These are not likely to change, but every other workstation vendor included usb3. They'd need to test usb3 chipsets for the thunderbolt display as well, so there is no excuse aside from laziness or an unwillingness to devote a couple engineers to development. The same thing happened with nehalem to westmere and from woodcrest to clovertown. Chipsets typically last two generations in this area. Thunderbolt being integrated is even less likely. It solves a problem that intel may not see as a problem in that space. It's also unlikely that they want to risk it being pushed back further. Note the original Sandy Bridge recall where the problem also pushed back Sandy Bridge E/EP/EN. I also think you're being way too optmistic on Ivy. Intel has continually slipped on these. It's more likely that a shipping product would move to late in the year. I'd say a late Sandy with Ivy showing up next year would be a far more likely scenario. I'm not sure if Ivy Bridge EX will even ship this year, not that it matters for Apple. Those are solely for big iron servers up to 4 sockets. It occurs to me though that they probably aren't expecting exponential growth at the mainstream cpu level, or they'd be more worried about a greater level of cannibalization. I would like it if the mac pro was better designed for some of the gpus they've been using in recent configurations. The 200W gpus weren't there or in use at the time of the G5, and gpu death is one of the more common mac pro complaints. I abhor the form over function concept, but better alignment with the engineering could result in a superior case design if they're serious about that line. I think the predictions of cheaper are silly as they predict a complete reversal in tangent. The mac pros have gone up in price somewhere with every revision. Reversing that is doubtful unless they are going for a completely different pricing strategy.
"A desktop computer is a personal computer (PC) in a form intended for regular use at a single location, as opposed to a mobile laptop or portable computer. Early desktop computers are designed to lie flat on the desk, while modern towers stand upright.Most modern desktop computers have separate screens and keyboards."
Describing a Mac Pro? Or a professional DESKTOP if you like?
As you can see nowhere it says that the computer HAS to sit on top of the desk to be called a DESKTOP as some people suggested here. Shiiish!
The issue with this is and always has been, I don't want cables, boxes, hard drives, etc all over my desk or else the pretty iMac will end p looking like the Dell shown below which is precisely what Apple tries to prevent. If I have a tower, I can put everything inside it where it should be.
Only 2 of those cables can't be integrated into a tower. They are the display cord and display power cord. Further if you needed any external storage aside from the obvious backup (which you'd need to add either way) that would bring them into parity. It's amusing how they display the all in one with all of its usb ports empty and the tower without any kind of cord management to bundle them neatly. As much as I hate spaghetti setups, that image has always been biased.
I am a Mac Pro owner. Luckily mine is not terribly old so I have not been desperate for a new model. I am excited to hear a new one is coming and depending on specs may decide to upgrade.
It seems to me Intel has really dropped the ball with Xeon. They are so far behind their Core series in terms of support for things like USB3, SATA 6G, PCIe3, and thunderbolt. Years ago when the first Intel Macs were released the Xeon was a powerhouse compared to the CPU's they used in the iMac. Now that really is not so clear cut with the newest Core i7's. I haven't followed it that closely but a quick google search turned up this for example.
That is a pretty powerful CPU and with 12 virtual cores, 15MB L3 Cache, and speeds up to 4 GHz would satisfy most Mac Pro owners at least as the entry level model. I wish they would offer this config for entry level, then have the mid and high ends with Xeons. The entry level Mac Pro now only has one Xeon CPU and not two and sells for $2499. If they plan on keeping the entry level model with just one CPU, why not go with a Core i7 which gives us a lot more bang for our buck?
I also hope the graphics card they use is a new and fast card. In the past they have had a bad habit of using slightly older mid range cards as the base card and then charging a good deal more than retail to get a high end card and even then it is not always the newest or fastest card available. This is important since it is not always easy to buy Mac Pro compatible high end cards a few years later so we are often very limited in our choice. I was excited to hear about EFI as a big advancement years ago but now I curse it since it seems to be the reason why so few cards will work in our Mac Pro which defeats the expandability advantage.
I thought once the Mac went from PPC to Intel that the days of waiting what seemed to be forever for a new G4 or G5 power mac were over. I also thought that prices would actually come down a bit with the switch. At least with the recent Mac Pro I was wrong on both counts.
I can only hope that this is not the current MacPro with a shield added to the fans to meet the new EU safety standards....
I have a large photo studio/digital printing company, and we have 2 maxed-out MacPros - 2007 and 2009. I've been waiting for more that a year to spend the $$$ in my equipment savings fund on a new MacPro - with faster processors, expanded RAM, SSD, USB3, Thunderbolt, and improved speeds on an eSATA board for running external drives ... in other words, 2013 computing.
In my studio we work with a digital scan back on a 4x5 camera (Better Light) and we often work on (and store) images that exceed 1.3 GB each --- I spend a lot of time watching progress bars go across a Photoshop screen. I also keep working to update color profiles and to get Macs to work with our NEC high-end monitors .... and the latest wide-format printers. There are just too many daily reminders that things have gotten old and are in need of updates.
My only worry is that a company that would delete a door for RAM upgrades to allow for "thin" edges on a computer that never moves from a desk top has lost contact with (or fired) the design engineers who understand what the concept of a "work station" means to me ....
I've been a Mac user since my first Photoshop efforts - with P.S. v.2.0 on a Mac IIfx in 1991 ---- I've lived through a lot of Macs and Mac Pros (G3, G4, and Intels) - I remain optimistic, but worried. I love my iMacs, my iPad, my iPod, and my iPhone --- but I NEED a real computer.
You guys should cease arguing semantics. Typically the disambiguation at the oem level is one of chipsets and gpus employed with a few corner cases involving the use of E series i7s or integrated graphics as opposed to workstation cards. It's also a way of routing consumers away from features and price points that they may not find appealing. In this sense it works as a means of marketing communication. Trying to dissect it like this is becoming silly.
As you can see nowhere it says that the computer HAS to sit on top of the desk to be called a DESKTOP as some people suggested here. Shiiish!
Yes, because that was my point, at all, ever, I'm done with these superlatives; you have to be able to understand both how necessary and how tiring they are, I mean come on, at any time¡ That's certainly my criteria, not anything else at all¡
When you have an actual argument, feel free to post it.
In my studio we work with a digital scan back on a 4x5 camera (Better Light) and we often work on (and store) images that exceed 1.3 GB each --- I spend a lot of time watching progress bars go across a Photoshop screen. I also keep working to update color profiles and to get Macs to work with our NEC high-end monitors .... and the latest wide-format printers. There are just too many daily reminders that things have gotten old and are in need of updates.
What do you shoot? I never hear of anyone using those these days given their somewhat cumbersome nature. I mean you need huge ballasts for lighting as opposed to strobes and the current quality of medium format digital. I figured Better Light was mostly relegated to digitizing old paintings and documents that can't be fit on a large Scitex without the risk of damage. Also what kind of problems are you having with Spectraview? Is it that thing where it sometimes spits out wacky Delta E validations? Do you allow the colorimeter and display to warm up first? Also are you using one of their i1 display bundles if you're using the PA series? I switched to Eizo a while ago mostly because they're quicker about bug fixes. I still like NEC though.
The issue with this is and always has been, I don't want cables, boxes, hard drives, etc all over my desk or else the pretty iMac will end p looking like the Dell shown below which is precisely what Apple tries to prevent. If I have a tower, I can put everything inside it where it should be.
Why use an image of a Dell computer from about 5 years ago?
Why not a current version similar to the iMac shown? Maybe the latest Del AIO?
Like this one.....Dell XPS One 27 inch touch screen. I would rather have an iMac but at least compare like items....
Remember, Apple can't sell the current Mac Pro in the EU because of power and fan problems so this could simply be a redesigned enclosure to pass regulations.
"You must be joking about that."
This was discussed a week or so ago. Apple might be making it up but I didn't.
Why use an image of a Dell computer from about 5 years ago?
Why not a current version similar to the iMac shown? Maybe the latest Del AIO?
Like this one.....Dell XPS One 27 inch touch screen. I would rather have an iMac but at least compare like items....
You completely didn't get what was getting at. I was trying to get it the wire mess connecting external hard drives, video cards (if ever possible), and other thunderbolt devices as a result of not having an iMac.
1) That is not the latest iMac nor current accesspries. That makes the image very comparable but I agree that it's out of date.
2) The problem with the Dell AIO (besides not having any keyboard or mouse attached) is the fact that it's not a popular Dell desktop. The point of the pic isn't "Dell doesn't know how to produce an AIO" it's about the differences between Apple and the other Win OEMs and their primary customers.
Remember when people scoffed at notebooks because it was more limited in performance and coat more than a desktop? I do, and I bet most of those people now have notebooks.
That's true, but at the time, the iMac was clearly an entry level machine. Even though I didn't consider myself to be a power user, I bought a Mac Pro at the time - because I wanted the expandability and better capabilities. There were a lot of people for whom the iMac was not sufficient.
Today, the iMac is a very different beast. With i7 processor, up to 16 GB of RAM, SSD, and TB expandability, it's far more power than most people need. Only a tiny percentage need something like the Mac Pro.
Slight correction: you can go up to 32 GB of RAM on the 27" iMacs from mid-2010 onwards, and it's pretty affordable to do so. That probably only reinforces your point, of course.
Initially sales could be very robust due to pent up demand. Going forward though it will be far more interesting and frankly will depend upon the value that people see in the design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh
It can't come soon enough. Unfortunately, many pros have simply moved on to an iMac or MacBook Pro, so I wouldn't be surprised if sales are a bit soft.
Also, they really need to get back to their previous pricing structure where they would sell a bare bones Power Mac for ~$1799.
Actually at $1799 it needs to be better than Bare Bones. In a nut shell this is the Mac Pros biggest problem today, that. Is the lack of value in the entry level machines. There are ways for Apple to address this so it will be very interesting to see what the new Mac Pro looks like.
At least now we have a time frame as it looks like less than two months to go.
Only 2 of those cables can't be integrated into a tower. They are the display cord and display power cord. Further if you needed any external storage aside from the obvious backup (which you'd need to add either way) that would bring them into parity. It's amusing how they display the all in one with all of its usb ports empty and the tower without any kind of cord management to bundle them neatly. As much as I hate spaghetti setups, that image has always been biased.
Again, you didn't get what I was getting at. Read my entire post again and don't just look at the picture. Its not the keyboard and the mouse thats the concern. Its the 50,000 other devices you have to connect if you want other items.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple
That or March 1st and Europe will go dark for a few months as the new Mac Pro could be introduced on June 19th, the very last day of Spring in the Northern Hemisphere. Hey, they said iMac would be available in November and it was... November 30th!
/
/
/
Right, but at least there won't be any display manufacturing issues. So probably not as much delay as for the iMac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Facts we know:
- a Mac Pro is coming in 2013
- Ivy Bridge E is scheduled for Q3 2013 (beginning July)
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Ivy_Bridge-E-LGA_2011-X79-cpu-mobo,16588.html
- right now Intel doesn't have a Xeon chipset for USB 3, SATA 6G, PCIe3 etc - Apple would have to add those themselves without a new chipset
From the above link:
"What remains to be seen is if Intel will launch a new chipset, along with the release of the Ivy Bride-E processors. If history repeats itself, expect Intel to release a new chipset with Ivy Bridge-E to replace the X79 chipset. As with the current Ivy Bridge, Intel released a new chipset with the transfer to the Ivy Bridge processor, though it made certain current LGA 1155 chipsets were compatible. With current X79 chipsets not fully certified for PCIe 3.0, we look for the new chipset to be fully PCIe 3.0 certified, along with other features being implemented with the Lynx Point Chipset on the "Haswell" platform."
If it was coming in early Spring, they either have an early exclusive for both the chipset and the processor (they had a short exclusive with the 2010 model) or they'd be going with Sandy Bridge (2 year old architecture at that point) with likely USB 2, SATA 3G and PCIe 2.
A more likely outcome is that they will launch it at WWDC in early June with Ivy Bridge E and it will have a new chipset supporting USB 3, PCIe 3, SATA 6G and maybe even Thunderbolt. This will mean Europe will have to survive on reseller supplies for 3-4 months so they'd need about 1 million units to avoid all professional creative work grinding to a halt - TV ads will stop running, there will be no music, websites wil revert to text-only and we'll all have to start playing board games instead of going to the movies. The horror. But no, the iMac survived with a 5 week hiatus for the 21.5" and longer for the 27" so a June launch wouldn't be the end of the world and it might have to ship in July if they don't get a short exclusive.
You're looking at the wrong chipset and drifting off into hyperbole (2 year old architecture
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
As for the "desktop" designation,
Some people get it.
And some people just do not get it at all.
Sure and wiki is wrong too:
"A desktop computer is a personal computer (PC) in a form intended for regular use at a single location, as opposed to a mobile laptop or portable computer. Early desktop computers are designed to lie flat on the desk, while modern towers stand upright. Most modern desktop computers have separate screens and keyboards."
Describing a Mac Pro? Or a professional DESKTOP if you like?
As you can see nowhere it says that the computer HAS to sit on top of the desk to be called a DESKTOP as some people suggested here. Shiiish!
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
The issue with this is and always has been, I don't want cables, boxes, hard drives, etc all over my desk or else the pretty iMac will end p looking like the Dell shown below which is precisely what Apple tries to prevent. If I have a tower, I can put everything inside it where it should be.
Only 2 of those cables can't be integrated into a tower. They are the display cord and display power cord. Further if you needed any external storage aside from the obvious backup (which you'd need to add either way) that would bring them into parity. It's amusing how they display the all in one with all of its usb ports empty and the tower without any kind of cord management to bundle them neatly. As much as I hate spaghetti setups, that image has always been biased.
I am a Mac Pro owner. Luckily mine is not terribly old so I have not been desperate for a new model. I am excited to hear a new one is coming and depending on specs may decide to upgrade.
It seems to me Intel has really dropped the ball with Xeon. They are so far behind their Core series in terms of support for things like USB3, SATA 6G, PCIe3, and thunderbolt. Years ago when the first Intel Macs were released the Xeon was a powerhouse compared to the CPU's they used in the iMac. Now that really is not so clear cut with the newest Core i7's. I haven't followed it that closely but a quick google search turned up this for example.
Intel Core i7-3970X Extreme Edition Sandy Bridge-E 3.5GHz (4.0GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 150W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73970X
That is a pretty powerful CPU and with 12 virtual cores, 15MB L3 Cache, and speeds up to 4 GHz would satisfy most Mac Pro owners at least as the entry level model. I wish they would offer this config for entry level, then have the mid and high ends with Xeons. The entry level Mac Pro now only has one Xeon CPU and not two and sells for $2499. If they plan on keeping the entry level model with just one CPU, why not go with a Core i7 which gives us a lot more bang for our buck?
I also hope the graphics card they use is a new and fast card. In the past they have had a bad habit of using slightly older mid range cards as the base card and then charging a good deal more than retail to get a high end card and even then it is not always the newest or fastest card available. This is important since it is not always easy to buy Mac Pro compatible high end cards a few years later so we are often very limited in our choice. I was excited to hear about EFI as a big advancement years ago but now I curse it since it seems to be the reason why so few cards will work in our Mac Pro which defeats the expandability advantage.
I thought once the Mac went from PPC to Intel that the days of waiting what seemed to be forever for a new G4 or G5 power mac were over. I also thought that prices would actually come down a bit with the switch. At least with the recent Mac Pro I was wrong on both counts.
I can only hope that this is not the current MacPro with a shield added to the fans to meet the new EU safety standards....
I have a large photo studio/digital printing company, and we have 2 maxed-out MacPros - 2007 and 2009. I've been waiting for more that a year to spend the $$$ in my equipment savings fund on a new MacPro - with faster processors, expanded RAM, SSD, USB3, Thunderbolt, and improved speeds on an eSATA board for running external drives ... in other words, 2013 computing.
In my studio we work with a digital scan back on a 4x5 camera (Better Light) and we often work on (and store) images that exceed 1.3 GB each --- I spend a lot of time watching progress bars go across a Photoshop screen. I also keep working to update color profiles and to get Macs to work with our NEC high-end monitors .... and the latest wide-format printers. There are just too many daily reminders that things have gotten old and are in need of updates.
My only worry is that a company that would delete a door for RAM upgrades to allow for "thin" edges on a computer that never moves from a desk top has lost contact with (or fired) the design engineers who understand what the concept of a "work station" means to me ....
I've been a Mac user since my first Photoshop efforts - with P.S. v.2.0 on a Mac IIfx in 1991 ---- I've lived through a lot of Macs and Mac Pros (G3, G4, and Intels) - I remain optimistic, but worried. I love my iMacs, my iPad, my iPod, and my iPhone --- but I NEED a real computer.
@Tallest
You guys should cease arguing semantics. Typically the disambiguation at the oem level is one of chipsets and gpus employed with a few corner cases involving the use of E series i7s or integrated graphics as opposed to workstation cards. It's also a way of routing consumers away from features and price points that they may not find appealing. In this sense it works as a means of marketing communication. Trying to dissect it like this is becoming silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36
I love the MacPro. My 2007 8 core model is still a powerhouse.
Same here. Too bad it can't run ML
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
11. The 64-bit professional dream machine.
Yeah except it was only partially 64 bit when launched. It did not support 64 bit kernel until 2008.
Originally Posted by AndreiD
As you can see nowhere it says that the computer HAS to sit on top of the desk to be called a DESKTOP as some people suggested here. Shiiish!
Yes, because that was my point, at all, ever, I'm done with these superlatives; you have to be able to understand both how necessary and how tiring they are, I mean come on, at any time¡ That's certainly my criteria, not anything else at all¡
When you have an actual argument, feel free to post it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPhotos
In my studio we work with a digital scan back on a 4x5 camera (Better Light) and we often work on (and store) images that exceed 1.3 GB each --- I spend a lot of time watching progress bars go across a Photoshop screen. I also keep working to update color profiles and to get Macs to work with our NEC high-end monitors .... and the latest wide-format printers. There are just too many daily reminders that things have gotten old and are in need of updates.
What do you shoot? I never hear of anyone using those these days given their somewhat cumbersome nature. I mean you need huge ballasts for lighting as opposed to strobes and the current quality of medium format digital. I figured Better Light was mostly relegated to digitizing old paintings and documents that can't be fit on a large Scitex without the risk of damage. Also what kind of problems are you having with Spectraview? Is it that thing where it sometimes spits out wacky Delta E validations? Do you allow the colorimeter and display to warm up first? Also are you using one of their i1 display bundles if you're using the PA series? I switched to Eizo a while ago mostly because they're quicker about bug fixes. I still like NEC though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
The issue with this is and always has been, I don't want cables, boxes, hard drives, etc all over my desk or else the pretty iMac will end p looking like the Dell shown below which is precisely what Apple tries to prevent. If I have a tower, I can put everything inside it where it should be.
Why use an image of a Dell computer from about 5 years ago?
Why not a current version similar to the iMac shown? Maybe the latest Del AIO?
Like this one.....Dell XPS One 27 inch touch screen. I would rather have an iMac but at least compare like items....
Originally Posted by rob53
Remember, Apple can't sell the current Mac Pro in the EU because of power and fan problems so this could simply be a redesigned enclosure to pass regulations.
"You must be joking about that."
This was discussed a week or so ago. Apple might be making it up but I didn't.
Originally Posted by rob53
This was discussed a week or so ago. Apple might be making it up but I didn't.
No, joking that they'd spend millions on a fan redesign, changing nothing else about the product, for the sake of the EU's nannying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
Why use an image of a Dell computer from about 5 years ago?
Why not a current version similar to the iMac shown? Maybe the latest Del AIO?
Like this one.....Dell XPS One 27 inch touch screen. I would rather have an iMac but at least compare like items....
You completely didn't get what was getting at. I was trying to get it the wire mess connecting external hard drives, video cards (if ever possible), and other thunderbolt devices as a result of not having an iMac.
1) That is not the latest iMac nor current accesspries. That makes the image very comparable but I agree that it's out of date.
2) The problem with the Dell AIO (besides not having any keyboard or mouse attached) is the fact that it's not a popular Dell desktop. The point of the pic isn't "Dell doesn't know how to produce an AIO" it's about the differences between Apple and the other Win OEMs and their primary customers.
Remember when people scoffed at notebooks because it was more limited in performance and coat more than a desktop? I do, and I bet most of those people now have notebooks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
That's true, but at the time, the iMac was clearly an entry level machine. Even though I didn't consider myself to be a power user, I bought a Mac Pro at the time - because I wanted the expandability and better capabilities. There were a lot of people for whom the iMac was not sufficient.
Today, the iMac is a very different beast. With i7 processor, up to 16 GB of RAM, SSD, and TB expandability, it's far more power than most people need. Only a tiny percentage need something like the Mac Pro.
Slight correction: you can go up to 32 GB of RAM on the 27" iMacs from mid-2010 onwards, and it's pretty affordable to do so. That probably only reinforces your point, of course.
Initially sales could be very robust due to pent up demand. Going forward though it will be far more interesting and frankly will depend upon the value that people see in the design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh
It can't come soon enough. Unfortunately, many pros have simply moved on to an iMac or MacBook Pro, so I wouldn't be surprised if sales are a bit soft.
Also, they really need to get back to their previous pricing structure where they would sell a bare bones Power Mac for ~$1799.
Actually at $1799 it needs to be better than Bare Bones. In a nut shell this is the Mac Pros biggest problem today, that. Is the lack of value in the entry level machines. There are ways for Apple to address this so it will be very interesting to see what the new Mac Pro looks like.
At least now we have a time frame as it looks like less than two months to go.
Originally Posted by geekdad
I can't decide whether that's pathetic or funny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
Only 2 of those cables can't be integrated into a tower. They are the display cord and display power cord. Further if you needed any external storage aside from the obvious backup (which you'd need to add either way) that would bring them into parity. It's amusing how they display the all in one with all of its usb ports empty and the tower without any kind of cord management to bundle them neatly. As much as I hate spaghetti setups, that image has always been biased.
Again, you didn't get what I was getting at. Read my entire post again and don't just look at the picture. Its not the keyboard and the mouse thats the concern. Its the 50,000 other devices you have to connect if you want other items.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
Why use an image of a Dell computer from about 5 years ago?
Why not a current version similar to the iMac shown? Maybe the latest Del AIO?
Like this one.....Dell XPS One 27 inch touch screen. I would rather have an iMac but at least compare like items....
If you want to compare like with like the current iMac is a lot thinner than that.