Problem is the massive profits already in their market cap. Growth is slowing to flat next quarter or down if you run apples guidance. So great quarter but as second largest market cap double Microsoft still it is already priced in
Wow. This quote is almost the perfect example of what's wrong with business and the stock market today. It's just a lot of nonsense logic strung together with buzzwords.
Well, it was actually $13/share, but then they split. And yeah, I'm lucky.
My theory has always been to invest in companies whose products I like. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But in the case of AAPL, it's definitely worked.
Wow. This quote is almost the perfect example of what's wrong with business and the stock market today. It's just a lot of nonsense logic strung together with buzzwords.
The real issue here is Apple's need for cash in flows to inflate the value of the stock. Legally the largest purchasers of stock (mutual funds, and retirement funds) on the Nasdaq are limited to the amount of any one stock they will purchase. Apple makes up so much of the total value of the stock traded on the Nasdaq that it needs a very large amount of cash in flows to inflate the value of the stock to match the value of the company. In modern memory this has not ever been a problem for any other stock. As the PE of the stock keeps dropping it becomes a more and more undervalued issue. There are only a few things Apple can do: increase dividends, buy back shares, set up a dividend reinvestment plan, or ignore the problem. So far Apple has continued to be very conservative in it's fiscal policies. They do not tout the stock to the private investor, they have begun a small stock repurchase program to remove the deflation in ownership caused by employee stock options. There is not other policy in place and no signs that Apple is going to do anything immediately to combat the low PE in it's stock.
Assuming the company continues on it's current trajectory, it will soon have a PE in the neighborhood of 5 or 6. This is not the problem that is usually meant by the law of large numbers, but it is an effect of Apple's own large size that is reshaping how the market is functioning. If the world economy was in better shape perhaps this would not be a problem. The average person is not buying Apple stock, and the result is a weird world where investing in the worlds most successful company does not return the value of investing in less successful companies.
Thanks for believing that. Is there such a thing as a "stock shorting fanboy"?
I don't know what a "stock shorting fanboy" is, nor what it would have to do with the stock market. The market is simpler than people think. There are buyers and sellers. When there are more buyers, competition for shares allows sellers to raise the price. When there are more sellers, competition forces them to lower the price to entice buyers. Stock shorting (if that's what you are talking about) is just selling of shares.
Billions of dollars made yearly. How disappointing.
Wall Street thinking is a disease continuing to kill the economy. Apple's doing well beyond fine and only arrogant greed among the speculators would suggest otherwise. This whole system is a disaster.
Quick sell off on manufactured "bad news," now everything is rosy and the analysts are trying to bump the stock price.
I'm sorry, but these people need investigating. The SEC needs to do its job here...
Except Apple shares did not drop based on "bad news." It dropped when Apple reported actual numbers, which indicated the stock price need to be realigned more with reality.
The real problem with Apple is it never had nowhere near the actual numbers to justify the market cap at $700+ per share. That number was driven by a buying frenzy. Apple always under reported what they knew they would make (fairly common for smaller companies) so they could always beat expectations. Apple became a 'Wall Street Darling' and analysts started projecting outrageous forecasts. It was almost a competition to see who could come up with the most bullish number. People bought it. Everyone knew 'Apple is great', the stock performance continued to (artificially) go up, and because the stock was going up, that was the new reality. It was not based on their actual performance. Their actual performance *IS* great and justifies them being the biggest company at their 450billionish market cap. Their numbers do not warrant them being a $660 billionish company.
As an example:
Exxon's market cap is @ $390b. No one has a problem with that.
Apples profits in Q4 of 2012 were 30% higher.
Using that as a baseline, Apples best market cap should be at most $507b.
Even that number is artificially high. It is comparing the performance of a holiday quarter only and one in which Apple released a new product. By Apples own guidance their next quarter will go flat or down. Exxon is not reliant on 'holidays' and its projected to keep going at its steady upward crawl like most big companies do. Since Apple isn't expected to continue having 30% higher profits than Exxon, its market cap should not actually be 30% higher.
Analysts didn't cause Apple to drop with bad news- reality caused Apple's share price to drop. Analysts and media frenzy, combined with user love, caused Apple stocks to soar way above what their actual numbers justified. When it became clear Apple couldn't meet those expectations the stock price started dropping fast. When Apple reported its actual numbers (actual sales numbers were not only below expectations, but they were below expectations even including phones Apple was giving away for free or cheap- which constituted around half of their total sales!)- that is what drove the stock down.
Apple is fine. Their products are great. Their sales are great. Their margins are high but dwindling. Based on that they are solidly in first place market cap again. There might be a shred of justification to drive them back up to a $507b company (but that is above even 'high' guidance). They don't currently justify a $700b market cap, but who knows- another awesome new surprise might change that.
Except Apple shares did not drop based on "bad news." It dropped when Apple reported actual numbers, which indicated the stock price need to be realigned more with reality.
The real problem with Apple is it never had nowhere near the actual numbers to justify the market cap at $700+ per share. That number was driven by a buying frenzy. Apple always under reported what they knew they would make (fairly common for smaller companies) so they could always beat expectations. Apple became a 'Wall Street Darling' and analysts started projecting outrageous forecasts. It was almost a competition to see who could come up with the most bullish number. People bought it. Everyone knew 'Apple is great', the stock performance continued to (artificially) go up, and because the stock was going up, that was the new reality. It was not based on their actual performance. Their actual performance *IS* great and justifies them being the biggest company at their 450billionish market cap. Their numbers do not warrant them being a $660 billionish company.
As an example:
Exxon's market cap is @ $390b. No one has a problem with that.
Apples profits in Q4 of 2012 were 30% higher.
Using that as a baseline, Apples best market cap should be at most $507b.
Even that number is artificially high. It is comparing the performance of a holiday quarter only and one in which Apple released a new product. By Apples own guidance their next quarter will go flat or down. Exxon is not reliant on 'holidays' and its projected to keep going at its steady upward crawl like most big companies do. Since Apple isn't expected to continue having 30% higher profits than Exxon, its market cap should not actually be 30% higher.
Analysts didn't cause Apple to drop with bad news- reality caused Apple's share price to drop. Analysts and media frenzy, combined with user love, caused Apple stocks to soar way above what their actual numbers justified. When it became clear Apple couldn't meet those expectations the stock price started dropping fast. When Apple reported its actual numbers (actual sales numbers were not only below expectations, but they were below expectations even including phones Apple was giving away for free or cheap- which constituted around half of their total sales!)- that is what drove the stock down.
Apple is fine. Their products are great. Their sales are great. Their margins are high but dwindling. Based on that they are solidly in first place market cap again. There might be a shred of justification to drive them back up to a $507b company (but that is above even 'high' guidance). They don't currently justify a $700b market cap, but who knows- another awesome new surprise might change that.
My quotes are there because of my belief that analysts and othe big players are manipulating the stock to a pretty large degree. Speculating stock isn't illegal but manipulation is.
Conceptually this is complete BS! And history will lambast Wall Street when their era comes to a screeching end. Apple reported the "BEST" quarter in their history;yet, Wall Street says it's disappointing because the schmucks sitting in their corner office expected more. Are you serious? What the f*** does an analyst do to move electronics? KMA every which way till Sunday! And you wonder why we had sh** like the great depression. 140 billion in the bank or close to it and no effing debt, but because they missed selling 2 million iPhones they suck. GTFO!
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod
Problem is the massive profits already in their market cap. Growth is slowing to flat next quarter or down if you run apples guidance. So great quarter but as second largest market cap double Microsoft still it is already priced in
Wow. This quote is almost the perfect example of what's wrong with business and the stock market today. It's just a lot of nonsense logic strung together with buzzwords.
Steve Balmer, is that you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647
What happened with the SEC looking into the huge drop?
What's to look at? The price fell because there were more people interested in selling shares than buying shares. It's simple supply and demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
You did? You lucky (clever?) sumenabitch!
Well, it was actually $13/share, but then they split. And yeah, I'm lucky.
My theory has always been to invest in companies whose products I like. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But in the case of AAPL, it's definitely worked.
Originally Posted by chabig
What's to look at? The price fell because there were more people interested in selling shares than buying shares. It's simple supply and demand.
Thanks for believing that. Is there such a thing as a "stock shorting fanboy"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Wow. This quote is almost the perfect example of what's wrong with business and the stock market today. It's just a lot of nonsense logic strung together with buzzwords.
Steve Balmer, is that you?
It would be ALL CAPS if it were Balmer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist
So the argument for Apple now is "we don't suck as bad as the other guy"? Is that what you are saying, AppleInsider?
More like, "we are better than everyone else."
wtf, wallstreet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ
It would be ALL CAPS if it were Balmer.
I propose we rename Caps Lock to Ballmer.
Assuming the company continues on it's current trajectory, it will soon have a PE in the neighborhood of 5 or 6. This is not the problem that is usually meant by the law of large numbers, but it is an effect of Apple's own large size that is reshaping how the market is functioning. If the world economy was in better shape perhaps this would not be a problem. The average person is not buying Apple stock, and the result is a weird world where investing in the worlds most successful company does not return the value of investing in less successful companies.
Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers
I propose we rename Caps Lock to Ballmer.
I thought it was already Mays Lock. Guess he's dead, though.
And monkey sounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Thanks for believing that. Is there such a thing as a "stock shorting fanboy"?
I don't know what a "stock shorting fanboy" is, nor what it would have to do with the stock market. The market is simpler than people think. There are buyers and sellers. When there are more buyers, competition for shares allows sellers to raise the price. When there are more sellers, competition forces them to lower the price to entice buyers. Stock shorting (if that's what you are talking about) is just selling of shares.
What are those "analysts" and investors thinking???
Yup, this record-breaking performance really does show that Apple is DOOMED!... (Not!)
What are those "analysts" and investors thinking???
And Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
And monkey sounds.
I would pay Apple to add monkey sounds when activating the Ballmer Key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightzero
Maybe put the share price of those other companies? Sure, AAPL is profitable, but is it $700/share profitable? And Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.
Well, if Apple had the P/E that Amazon has, it would be $1,309/share right now.
Wall Street thinking is a disease continuing to kill the economy. Apple's doing well beyond fine and only arrogant greed among the speculators would suggest otherwise. This whole system is a disaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Quick sell off on manufactured "bad news," now everything is rosy and the analysts are trying to bump the stock price.
I'm sorry, but these people need investigating. The SEC needs to do its job here...
Except Apple shares did not drop based on "bad news." It dropped when Apple reported actual numbers, which indicated the stock price need to be realigned more with reality.
The real problem with Apple is it never had nowhere near the actual numbers to justify the market cap at $700+ per share. That number was driven by a buying frenzy. Apple always under reported what they knew they would make (fairly common for smaller companies) so they could always beat expectations. Apple became a 'Wall Street Darling' and analysts started projecting outrageous forecasts. It was almost a competition to see who could come up with the most bullish number. People bought it. Everyone knew 'Apple is great', the stock performance continued to (artificially) go up, and because the stock was going up, that was the new reality. It was not based on their actual performance. Their actual performance *IS* great and justifies them being the biggest company at their 450billionish market cap. Their numbers do not warrant them being a $660 billionish company.
As an example:
Exxon's market cap is @ $390b. No one has a problem with that.
Apples profits in Q4 of 2012 were 30% higher.
Using that as a baseline, Apples best market cap should be at most $507b.
Even that number is artificially high. It is comparing the performance of a holiday quarter only and one in which Apple released a new product. By Apples own guidance their next quarter will go flat or down. Exxon is not reliant on 'holidays' and its projected to keep going at its steady upward crawl like most big companies do. Since Apple isn't expected to continue having 30% higher profits than Exxon, its market cap should not actually be 30% higher.
Analysts didn't cause Apple to drop with bad news- reality caused Apple's share price to drop. Analysts and media frenzy, combined with user love, caused Apple stocks to soar way above what their actual numbers justified. When it became clear Apple couldn't meet those expectations the stock price started dropping fast. When Apple reported its actual numbers (actual sales numbers were not only below expectations, but they were below expectations even including phones Apple was giving away for free or cheap- which constituted around half of their total sales!)- that is what drove the stock down.
Apple is fine. Their products are great. Their sales are great. Their margins are high but dwindling. Based on that they are solidly in first place market cap again. There might be a shred of justification to drive them back up to a $507b company (but that is above even 'high' guidance). They don't currently justify a $700b market cap, but who knows- another awesome new surprise might change that.
My quotes are there because of my belief that analysts and othe big players are manipulating the stock to a pretty large degree. Speculating stock isn't illegal but manipulation is.
Apple reported the "BEST" quarter in their history;yet, Wall Street says it's disappointing because the schmucks sitting in their corner office expected more. Are you serious? What the f*** does an analyst do to move electronics?
KMA every which way till Sunday! And you wonder why we had sh** like the great depression.
140 billion in the bank or close to it and no effing debt, but because they missed selling 2 million iPhones they suck. GTFO!