Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy This lawsuit is despicable. Parents that take no personal responsibility for their actions. In-app purchases require the account password each time. If you give an iOS device to a kid, who you know has no concept of money, and freely supply them with your iTunes password which is connected to your credit card, then you deserve the charges that come to you.
The problem isn't bad parenting, it was Apple for having on by default In App purchases.
No password required to buy these. You have to go to settings, click on General, Then turn Restrictions ON, then turn off In App purchases. This by default should be turned OFF and require a password to buy In APP purchases.
I never knew about the "require password immediately" option and I never got burned by my kids. That's a separate issue. To me the real issue is controlling spending of your kids through the allowance feature or gift cards.
I never let my kids use my actual phone as I don't want them (as PhilBoogie said) to wreck other things on my phone. I gave my kids my old iPhones when we got new ones. Same reason my PC has multiple accounts and the kids don't have access to mine.
I have used iPhones etc since launch. I had never heard of this require password immediately feature.
"But the plans were on display ..."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."
I have used iPhones etc since launch. I had never heard of this require password immediately feature.
"But the plans were on display ..."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."
It is the fault of the app creators for their predatory tactics and pricing, Apple's for originally not having a better barrier to purchasing or not having more security on purchasing set by default, and the parent's for not doing their due diligence to monitor their children's activities and/or understanding the setting on their own phones.
If Apple don't intend people to let their kids use their iPhone then they should ban all games and educational content for the kids from the iOS store, no?
If Apple don't intend people to let their kids use their iPhone then they should ban all games and educational content for the kids from the iOS store, no?
This is a nonsense argument. It's wholly unrelated to the topic at hand.
Yes, you can do that - if you know it's an option.
The whole point of iOS is that you don't have to read a manual - you can just take the device out of the box and start using it. With that kind of strategy, the default should be 'safe' options.
Obviously, everybody making these comments is not a parent. Kids have limited understanding of money and these games make it extremely easy to spend HUNDREDS of dollars with a simple touch.
My 5 year old son plays dragonvale, a couple months ago my wife discovered over $300 in charges in one day to our itunes account, he thought he was just buying "gems" with his "gold" from the game. Of course his understanding was that if he can buy dragon eggs for $500 in "gold" from the game that the same gold can be used for a gem pack costing $99 in real money.
We called apple and got our money refunded, it was pretty easy actually. However, a similar situation happened to my cousin about a year ago and apple refused to refund the purchase of $700 by his 6 year old. After a few days and several calls they eventually got a partial refund.
I would assume that no adult would ever spend hundreds of dollars on these games. This means that these items are directed at children. Seems like a sleezy thing to do.
This is a nonsense argument. It's wholly unrelated to the topic at hand.
Obviously. But if people are seriously going to suggest that parents sharing their iOS devices with their kids is a use case that Apple hasn't considered then we're pretty far down the road to nonsense-land.
Obviously. But if people are seriously going to suggest that parents sharing their iOS devices with their kids is a use case that Apple hasn't considered then we're pretty far down the road to nonsense-land.
What Apple didn't consider is being sued over a lack of personal responsibility.
Why would they spend time on a situation over which they have no responsibility?
I'm just trying to come at this from a common sense point of view. If a kid and his parent go to Wal-Mart and the parent lets the kid pick out everything and is only there for checkout verification, why is the parent allowed to sue Wal-Mart because the kid spent too much?
Why would they spend time on a situation over which they have no responsibility?
Of course they have some responsibility. They accepted it when they made the store rules and accepted the profit from it. Even if Apple was only 10% responsible they could potentially be liable for 80-90% or more of any damages if it went to trial.
Why would they spend time on a situation over which they have no responsibility?
I'm just trying to come at this from a common sense point of view. If a kid and his parent go to Wal-Mart and the parent lets the kid pick out everything and is only there for checkout verification, why is the parent allowed to sue Wal-Mart because the kid spent too much?
...even if Walmart didn't need the credit card presented again as long as only a few minutes had passed and the cashier recognized him from before?
Why would they spend time on a situation over which they have no responsibility?
I'm just trying to come at this from a common sense point of view. If a kid and his parent go to Wal-Mart and the parent lets the kid pick out everything and is only there for checkout verification, why is the parent allowed to sue Wal-Mart because the kid spent too much?
Because the parent didn't expect Walmart to keep selling stuff to their kid, after the parent had already gotten their receipt and left.
It would be quite a different scenario if the App Store had put up an alert such as "Warning! Your account will stay open for purchases for the next quarter hour unless you click this button to stop it."
It doesn't matter if it was a kid, or your college buddy buying game credits... the owner simply had no indication or reason to suspect that the account was still open for purchases.
Actually its not "bad parenting", it's bad business calculated to steal from the unwary. If your password has been entered apple apprently doesnt warn you that you are spending real money. You need to know about in-app purchase "feature" and to specifically confugure you itunes to prompt you for a password once your password has bern entered; e.g., if you just downloaded a free game. Some of the games like "little pony" are obviously designed to target kids. This clash of clan game clearly appeals to kids as well, although it may not be specifically targeting them. Apple shouldvsoecifically flag those games in the same way youtube flags explict sex content so tgat by default, you have to turn on in-app charges. Most people dont want to spends over 100$ per session to play "a game".
Comments
I never knew about the "require password immediately" option and I never got burned by my kids. That's a separate issue. To me the real issue is controlling spending of your kids through the allowance feature or gift cards.
I never let my kids use my actual phone as I don't want them (as PhilBoogie said) to wreck other things on my phone. I gave my kids my old iPhones when we got new ones. Same reason my PC has multiple accounts and the kids don't have access to mine.
I have used iPhones etc since launch. I had never heard of this require password immediately feature.
"But the plans were on display ..."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystigo
I have used iPhones etc since launch. I had never heard of this require password immediately feature.
"But the plans were on display ..."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."
Ignorance is not an excuse
It is the fault of the app creators for their predatory tactics and pricing, Apple's for originally not having a better barrier to purchasing or not having more security on purchasing set by default, and the parent's for not doing their due diligence to monitor their children's activities and/or understanding the setting on their own phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
If Apple don't intend people to let their kids use their iPhone then they should ban all games and educational content for the kids from the iOS store, no?
I just disable in app purchasing.
Originally Posted by Crowley
If Apple don't intend people to let their kids use their iPhone then they should ban all games and educational content for the kids from the iOS store, no?
This is a nonsense argument. It's wholly unrelated to the topic at hand.
Yes, you can do that - if you know it's an option.
The whole point of iOS is that you don't have to read a manual - you can just take the device out of the box and start using it. With that kind of strategy, the default should be 'safe' options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt
Ignorance is not an excuse
Spoken like a true Vogon.
My 5 year old son plays dragonvale, a couple months ago my wife discovered over $300 in charges in one day to our itunes account, he thought he was just buying "gems" with his "gold" from the game. Of course his understanding was that if he can buy dragon eggs for $500 in "gold" from the game that the same gold can be used for a gem pack costing $99 in real money.
We called apple and got our money refunded, it was pretty easy actually. However, a similar situation happened to my cousin about a year ago and apple refused to refund the purchase of $700 by his 6 year old. After a few days and several calls they eventually got a partial refund.
I would assume that no adult would ever spend hundreds of dollars on these games. This means that these items are directed at children. Seems like a sleezy thing to do.
Originally Posted by Mystigo
Spoken like a true Vogon.
Are you just jokingly continuing the line of metaphor or do you believe you're right?
Originally Posted by Crowley
Obviously. But if people are seriously going to suggest that parents sharing their iOS devices with their kids is a use case that Apple hasn't considered then we're pretty far down the road to nonsense-land.
What Apple didn't consider is being sued over a lack of personal responsibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
What Apple didn't consider is being sued over a lack of personal responsibility.
But they should have. They're making money from those in-app purchases as surely as the developer is aren't they?
If McD's is responsible for letting consumers know coffee is hot. . .
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
But they should have.
Why would they spend time on a situation over which they have no responsibility?
I'm just trying to come at this from a common sense point of view. If a kid and his parent go to Wal-Mart and the parent lets the kid pick out everything and is only there for checkout verification, why is the parent allowed to sue Wal-Mart because the kid spent too much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why would they spend time on a situation over which they have no responsibility?
Of course they have some responsibility. They accepted it when they made the store rules and accepted the profit from it. Even if Apple was only 10% responsible they could potentially be liable for 80-90% or more of any damages if it went to trial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why would they spend time on a situation over which they have no responsibility?
I'm just trying to come at this from a common sense point of view. If a kid and his parent go to Wal-Mart and the parent lets the kid pick out everything and is only there for checkout verification, why is the parent allowed to sue Wal-Mart because the kid spent too much?
...even if Walmart didn't need the credit card presented again as long as only a few minutes had passed and the cashier recognized him from before?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why would they spend time on a situation over which they have no responsibility?
I'm just trying to come at this from a common sense point of view. If a kid and his parent go to Wal-Mart and the parent lets the kid pick out everything and is only there for checkout verification, why is the parent allowed to sue Wal-Mart because the kid spent too much?
Because the parent didn't expect Walmart to keep selling stuff to their kid, after the parent had already gotten their receipt and left.
It would be quite a different scenario if the App Store had put up an alert such as "Warning! Your account will stay open for purchases for the next quarter hour unless you click this button to stop it."
It doesn't matter if it was a kid, or your college buddy buying game credits... the owner simply had no indication or reason to suspect that the account was still open for purchases.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57590643-37/apple-notifies-parents-of-in-app-purchase-settlement-details/