BlackBerry CEO calls Apple's iPhone user interface outdated

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  • Reply 141 of 291
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,179member


    The hilarious thing is that they barely had a single commnet in the past few years about Apple, pretending they did not exist, while they were being completely decimated. Now, suddenly because they have a new product they want to push, they come out proclaiming Apple "lacks innovation". Hilarious. Enjoy whatever "innovation" you think you have, Thorns, as iOS7 will be a major revamp and will pull even further ahead. The thing about innovation, is that most people have to like it, or it doesnt matter - and that has not been the case with the BB UI. 

  • Reply 142 of 291

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rayz View Post


     


    1/. What percentage of Apple's customers have 200+ applications?


     


    2/. What percentage of Apple's customers care which apps are running?


     


    3/. What percentage of Apple's customers spend all day switching wifi, bluetooth, tethering, airplane mode etc.?



    Actually, if you have a clue as to the answers yourself, why don't you cite evidence?


     


    If you don't, why isn't it reasonable to surmise that the answer to all three questions is "sufficiently large"?

  • Reply 143 of 291

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    iOS outdated? Compared to what? Android still looks like crap and their rows of icons looks worse than iOS's row of icons. Windows 8 with those huge tiles and ugly colors looks ridiculous and seems to be targeting toddlers.


     


    An OS is not a video game, and if anybody thinks that iOS is "boring" then go pop some pills before using it, because the problem lies with you, not the OS.


     


    People with the attention span of gnats is not who Apple should be catering to. Go and use another OS, because your kind is not the kind that Apple should be targeting and making devices for.



     


    Android looks like crap?



    Yep, just like he said.

  • Reply 144 of 291

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    I was going to do a point by point rebuttal but there is so much repetition in this "list" and so much of it is based on extreme edge cases that it just isn't worth it.  


     


    You seem to have no idea about UI design in general and are just listing a lot of crap that you think would make your personal experience better.  UI design is about doing what's best for the most people.  It's about making it work for everyone.  Your extreme focus on multi-tasking is something that most people just don't care about for instance.  Your idea about a system wide document/file system would "break" the entire system also.  


     


    Most of what you want would be a complete hinderance to me, and probably for many others.  Again, the whole point of good UI design is to make it work for everyone, or failing that, for the most people possible.  



     


    How are these edge cases? These are exactly the problems mobile devices are facing now as their use-cases grow.


     


    For the home screen, outdated data shows iOS users average 48 apps:


    http://www.marketingcharts.com/direct/apple-ios-users-have-most-apps-use-most-frequently-17301/


    I bet it's even more now. Anecdotal evidence from what I've seen is that people don't sort their apps, common sense dictates that no one would actually enjoy doing so. Maybe my idea isn't the best solution, but it's a real problem that needs solving.


     


    As for multi-tasking, I agree that running two apps simultaneously isn't necessary but have you seriously never had a task that requires switching back and forth rapidly? Writing an email in reference to a webpage or document for example. Or having an SMS conversation with a friend while playing solitaire. Comparing your online banking statement to a budget spreadsheet. Copying a recipe from a website to a recipe-book app. It comes up again and again. The current system is clumsy at best. Again maybe my ideas aren't the best solutions, but it's a real problem that needs solving.


     


    Again for multi-tasking, the current system made sense back when it was implemented, but not so much any more. The user needs to understand the difference between a suspended and a quit app. How come sometimes an app comes right back up like when I left it, but other times I'm back to the start screen? I see friends clearing the full "recent apps list" because the guy in the store told them it would save battery life lol. When the impression a UI gives is completely disjointed from what's really going on, that's poor UI design. It made sense back in the day when limited memory meant most apps were immediately killed anyways (thus the recent apps/running apps merged list), but now that more apps can survive for longer it really doesn't make sense anymore.


     


    I don't know how you can have a rebuttal to the settings thing, that has to be the longest standing and most widespread complaint there is. I swear that was one of the first things that came out of jailbreaking too, way back in the day.


     


    And then Documents. You can't argue the current system is fluid and intuitive, and that's what Apple strives for. Each app has its own set of documents? If I open a document in a second app I get a second copy? I can't attach a document to an email unless the app author decides to add that "feature"? If I start typing an email and realize it needs an attachment, I need to copy the body text, delete the email, go to the app holding the document, create an email from there, paste the body back in and re-type the recipients and subject line? Heaven forbid I want to attach two documents from different apps to the same email! If I delete a spreadsheet app, I lose all the associated spreadsheets even though I still have a second app that's more than capable of opening them? Each app author has to write their own file management UI? Have you tried to keep Numbers/Pages/Keynote documents sync'ed across multiple devices? Since they can't upload to iCloud after being closed, if you don't explicitly go back to the document selector and wait for the upload to happen, you'll end up with conflicts across your devices to manually reconcile. There is no way iOS will continue to take over the PC if it can't do something as simple as manage documents. I also don't see how my idea would "break the whole system"? It would add one new central app, and add a new API for other apps to use. Apps still have their own sandbox, and their own iCloud storage. They just have the option of accessing this central repository of documents as well. As apps implement it, you can transfer your documents over to it for added convenience. Or not, up to you. Hardly "system breaking"...


     


    These are all deficiencies in iOS. Fixing them properly doesn't have to make the OS any more complicated, just different. If Apple elects to keep iOS dumbed down for the sake of extreme simplicity, it will be their downfall. Apple's bread and butter is the high-end. I'm not saying add every feature and the kitchen sink, but if they start lacking major functionality than it gives a portion of users no choice but to leave.  It would be a sad day to see Apple lowering themselves to just competing with FirefoxOS because they were afraid of adding capability. With Sailfish OS and Ubuntu Touch slated to come out by the end of the year, now is the time to re-assert dominance before the new competitors have any chance to attain a foothold. Not to mention that pest Android that it constantly nipping at their heels.


     


    EDIT: I know a lot of people disagree with me, that doesn't faze me. Come back and read this post in five years. I guarantee that the dominant phone/tablet OS will have all the above features. Whether or not this dominant OS is iOS or not, well only time will tell.

  • Reply 145 of 291
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    bluefish86 wrote: »
    This.

    An overhaul would be a huge mistake, but they've been sitting still for too long.

    Well, at least you've made an attempt to show what could be changed.
    bluefish86 wrote: »
    Everyone keeps asking what Apple could improve:
    1. Home screen. It works fine for <50 apps, but when you're up to 200+ it gets really clumsy. You either put in constant effort to keep it rationally sorted (folder size limit and lack of nested folders means re-categorizing as apps get added and deleted), or end up with 8+ unorganized screens like my wife.

    No problem. Apple created folders for just that issue.

    bluefish86 wrote: »
    [*] Multi-tasking. Which apps are still running? What if there's an app I want to keep running, and others I want killed immediately? Automatic management is great, but the ability to give manual hints would be fantastic. Yes you can manually kill an app but its SLOW to get to. What about a fast way to flick back and forth between a pair of

    They have a manual way to manage the apps. If you want to kill an app, it takes about one second to do so.
    bluefish86 wrote: »
    height:1.231;">apps rapidly? Currently the double-press on home is really cumbersome. Gestures on the iPad are great but the iPhone needs a parallel.</span>

    Why is a double press any more cumbersome than a swipe? In fact, since the swipe can be confused for in-app actions, the swipe is worse.

    bluefish86 wrote: »
    [*] <span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.231;">Rapid access to settings. Ie toggles for bluetooth, wifi, tethering, airplane mode, airplay etc... This has been something people have wanted forever.</span>

    Why clutter the OS with something that people use rarely? You see, there's no need to constantly switch WiFi on and off with iOS because it automatically switches to WiFi if it's available. Nor is there any reason to constantly be changing all those other settings. It takes just a few seconds to change them if you need to, no need to complicate the OS. Besides, which features? If Apple puts 10 features on some quick change page, you'd be whining about the 20 others that were left out.

    iOS users want to use their devices - not constantly change settings all day. Fortunately, they don't need to.

    bluefish86 wrote: »
    [*] <span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.231;">Document management. The current system works for now, but it's already starting to get unwieldly. You have to go into the app that "owns" the document, and count on that app to give you a (sometimes very long) list of other apps to open it in. Then each app has its own copy, and you have to remember which is newest. There is no way of picking a default app to handle a document type.</span>

    That's a problem that occurs so rarely that it's not worth complicating the system. How many people do you know who store documents on their phones and use different apps to modify them? I can't think of anyone. So why make a more complicated system?

    bluefish86 wrote: »
    <span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.231;">How could these things be improved? (not all ideas are compatible with each other)</span>


    <span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.231;">Home screen</span>
    • Add a section (ie half a page, or even a full page) that gets automatically populated with the most used apps, not the most recent apps.
    • Make the far-right page be all your apps in an automatically-categorized list. Make it so that apps no longer have to live on other pages, this can be the only page they exist on for lesser-utilized apps.



    Unnecessarily complicated and little value. What if you have only two commonly used apps? The rest of the page is wasted. or what if you have more than 8 (which is all you could put on a half page)? You lose the benefit since you'll still have to switch around.

    As it is, if you WANT to have your commonly used apps on a single page, it's trivial to do that. OTOH, it's also trivial to do it the way I do it - all the shopping apps on one page, travel apps on one page, games on two pages, etc.
    bluefish86 wrote: »
    Multi-tasking
    • Swipe up from the bottom to show the multi-tasking tray. Only show apps that are still running. Add a check to each app icon that means "try to keep me running at the expense of other apps". Change double-press home to "immediately quit the foreground app".

    Swipe is more likely to cause confusion than a double tap. It's more likely to happen accidentally and could interfere with some other apps.

    The 'try to keep me running at the expense of other apps' is silly. There's absolutely no reason for it. iOS doesn't automatically quit apps (nor does it really need to) so why add a check box that does nothing.

    bluefish86 wrote: »
    [*] Allow interacting with the foreground app while the multi-tasking tray is still open on "tall" devices. All apps already support the shorter aspect ratio for legacy devices anyways.

    Why? This is in the same category as "why can't I play a game, respond to an email, send a text, and browse the web at exactly the same time?" There's no reason for it. When you're accessing your multitasking pane, why would you want to do something in the foreground app?
    bluefish86 wrote: »
    Settings
    • Add a notification center widget for the main toggles.
    • Make a new splash-page for the main settings app that puts these settings front and center right away
    • Add a screen that can be popped up at any time without interrupting the current app with access to these toggles, perhaps launched from the multitasking tray or notification center.

    You're repeating yourself - and the response is the same as above. It's not something that people do often enough to justify cluttering the OS.
    bluefish86 wrote: »
    Documents
    • Obviously security is a huge concern here, but you could implement an implied-consent system based on a system-controlled "open file" screen that only grants an app access to a document when a user picks it. Automatic versioning would limit the damage an app could do, since the user could always roll back the document. "Recent documents" for each app could be built into the open file screen, adding convenience while maintaining the consent system.

    Again, few people use multiple apps to edit documents, so this is unnecessary and complex. If you want to edit images, you go to your images app. If you want to edit a word processing document, you go to the word processing app. If you really need to keep track of thousands of documents that are all routinely opened with multiple apps, you're probably better off with a MacBook Air.
    bluefish86 wrote: »
    [*] To keep user friendliness,  make it a document library sortable based on document type, name, date saved, saved by app etc... similar to the "Music" interface. No direct filesystem exposure to the user. Only documents openable by the app show up in that app's open dialog. Obviously there would be a master "Documents" app that allows the user to see them all, manage them and perform a "Open With..." and "Share" functions. Apps like Mail could use the same interface to pick attachments.

    Same argument you've been making before - and same response.

    bluefish86 wrote: »
    So don't say there's nothing Apple could improve.

    I don't think anyone has said that there's nothing that could be improved. What CAN be said is that there's nothing obvious - and you sure haven't been able to identify any real improvements.
  • Reply 146 of 291
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,697member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post


     


    Android looks like crap? Android has beautiful home screens and there are a million different options out there if you don't like stock. All you have to do is download the one you like from the play store.


     


    http://mycolorscreen.com/



    Yes, Android looks like crap, and that is my opinion. And I wasn't referring to the "home screen", but to the screen where all of the icons show up.


     


    There's a reason why many creative people have always preferred Apple over the competition. It's for the same reason that I have never used Windows in my life, it doesn't look nice and it looks like it was designed by people who have no clue about design or artistry at all. The same goes for Android.


     


    Something like this looks like complete crap. An artist such as myself could never use something which was this ugly. And I'm not even going to mention the other issues, such as lag, I am talking purely about the design. And the amateurish design and crappiness of Android extends to many of the apps also. 


     


     


  • Reply 147 of 291
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member


    deleted

  • Reply 148 of 291
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by drwam View Post

    I keep thinking, what would Apple do with a larger screen iPhone? Just add more rows and columns of icons? Boring.


     


    Maybe that's a hint that there won't be a larger iPhone.






    This is clearly a problem for Apple.



     


    No, the iPad didn't do that; why would the iPhone?






    An interface designed for 480x320 badly needs to be rethought in a world of 720p and 1080p phones.



     


    It was. We done here?






    However, lack of a larger screen iPhone also costs Apple business and they have been ignoring that one for the past two years.



     


    Because it isn't actually costing them enough business to care about it at all. You look like an idiot with a 5" phone on your face. That's not you, that's third person plural 'you'.

  • Reply 149 of 291
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member


    Unsurprisingly the media is reporting these comments as fact, not opinion.  Of course if something is said often enough people start to believe it, and your average non techie iPhone users start believing the iPhone is outdated, not cool, etc.  so annoying,

  • Reply 150 of 291
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Yes, Android looks like crap, and that is my opinion. And I wasn't referring to the "home screen", but to the screen where all of the icons show up.


     


    There's a reason why many creative people have always preferred Apple over the competition. It's for the same reason that I have never used Windows in my life, it doesn't look nice and it looks like it was designed by people who have no clue about design or artistry at all. The same goes for Android.


     


    Something like this looks like complete crap. An artist such as myself could never use something which was this ugly. And I'm not even going to mention the other issues, such as lag, I am talking purely about the design. And the amateurish design and crappiness of Android extends to many of the apps also. 


     


     




    What's different about this and iOS?  Other than iOS icons have rounded corners.

  • Reply 151 of 291
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,518member
    Actually, if you have a clue as to the answers yourself, why don't you cite evidence?

    If you don't, why isn't it reasonable to surmise that the answer to all three questions is "sufficiently large"?

    I think you misread him. He was being completely reasonable, even taking time to find a solution for the OP, i.e., strapping a PC next to his head.
  • Reply 152 of 291

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Yes, Android looks like crap, and that is my opinion. And I wasn't referring to the "home screen", but to the screen where all of the icons show up.


     


    There's a reason why many creative people have always preferred Apple over the competition. It's for the same reason that I have never used Windows in my life, it doesn't look nice and it looks like it was designed by people who have no clue about design or artistry at all. The same goes for Android.


     


    Something like this looks like complete crap. An artist such as myself could never use something which was this ugly. And I'm not even going to mention the other issues, such as lag, I am talking purely about the design. And the amateurish design and crappiness of Android extends to many of the apps also. 


     


     




     


    There is the problem with Apple fans. They've never used Android extensively so they don't understand how people interact with it. You rarely use the all apps screen. For me, maybe once a week. Also, the screenshot you posted is horrid. No clue what that is but I agree it looks just terrible. And (again showing the fact you've never used Android) most apps that you download to change the homescreen also change the app drawer.  Again, you can have it look like whatever you want.

  • Reply 153 of 291
    bullhead wrote: »
    I hear this from the Microsoft drones and fandroids a lot. it has become a mainstain of their talking points. But specifically, they never mention what is outdated about it? what does not work?

    While not perfect, iOS has a highly intuitive, easy to use interface. It is far better than the horrid Windows Phone OS with is busy flashing squares, text scrolling off the right side of the screen everywhere, primitive block colors, etc... Or androids, iOS copy, with slow motion scrolling, inconsistent experience, unintuitive navigation, etc...

    Apple is not Microsoft who reskins their OS every year as a means to justify its outrageous upgrade cost, or Googles copying of everything Apple does.
    That's a pretty immature attitude. Google/Android was very derivative in the early days but they've upped their game and have arguably surpassed the iOS UI in the past two years. What sucks about iOS specifically?

    -no file system. Androids can be used as external storage or access SD cards. iOS is stuck in an iPod syncing paradigm. It's so simple that it makes things more difficult.
    -no at a glance info. Everything requires opening an app, or is extremely limited info on the lock screen.
    -no quick settings. Pretty unintuitive that you have to leave your app in order to launch the settings app to tweak something. Apps, apps, apps.
    -Siri is decent at following commands, but Google Now attempts to predict your needs and provide you with info for your day.
    -beyond wallpaper, very little customization. Even iOS app folders have to fall a certain way.

    I could go on. Those are specifics where
    iOS is lacking. I say this as a 5-year iPhone user and 9-year Mac fan: iOS' UI is stale! Macs are beautiful but let you tinker around inside for the most part. For some reason iOS devices are sealed off and it's getting old.
  • Reply 154 of 291

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


    What's different about this and iOS?  Other than iOS icons have rounded corners.



     


    Whats wrong with it is it looks horrible. It's also the app drawer not the homescreen. The app drawer gets very little use but it's hard for people that are used to how iOS is designed to see past that.


     


    That's exactly why AppleInsider always posts screen shots of the app drawer when trying to show how Android copies iOS.

  • Reply 155 of 291
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,614member


    I would like to be able to switch between two or three apps easier than how it is done now (clumsy). Not sure how exactly this could be implemented (and yes, I know there are many reasons why this is difficult!), but if I could swipe between live apps, that would be awesome. 


     


    I would like better, or more accessible, user control of certain settings (bluetooth, in particular).


     


    I am not sure why everyone is so against customization of home screens. I know it is not a straight forward matter and I know it is against Apple's philosophy thus far, but I really don't see the problem in allowing customization of the front end. The iPhone is not one thing to all people, and all people are not the same. My kids would LOVE to customize. In fact, they already do using apps that employ clumsy workarounds. Inevitably kids will find the iPhone 'old fashioned' and rightly so. Why would a kid find a gadget 'cool' if their mum and dad, (and grandparents) use the same devices? It goes against human nature ;). So let the kids personalize the experience - nobody looses.

  • Reply 156 of 291
    titusm wrote: »
    I could not agree more. I said that and my feeling is, that people are moving to android because Apple is kind of uncool. The iOS GUI looks simply childish. In many ways Microsoft did a better job with windows 8. On the other hand it will be a bold move to leave all these app icons behind as the whole marketing strategy builds up on these.
    I see the Microsoft and Android UIs as an interface for a child's game. they look cartoonish and unprofessional
  • Reply 157 of 291
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

    -Siri is decent at following commands, but Google Now attempts to predict your needs and provide you with info for your day.


     


    Yeah, sorry, no. No machine knows what I'm thinking and no company deserves to try to know what I'm thinking.






    For some reason iOS devices are sealed off and it's getting old.



     


    Not for 500,000,000 people.

  • Reply 158 of 291
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,697member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


    What's different about this and iOS?  Other than iOS icons have rounded corners.



    I just took a quick screenshot of my iPad screen which shows a similar row of icons, and the difference to me is significant.


     


    Maybe it all comes down to style and taste in the end, but Android looks too cluttered, the icons look ugly and iOS just looks nicer and more elegant.


     


     


  • Reply 159 of 291
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member


    deleted

  • Reply 160 of 291

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Yeah, sorry, no. No machine knows what I'm thinking and no company deserves to try to know what I'm thinking.


     


    Not for 500,000,000 people.





    Funny. I think blackberry said the same exact thing about 5 years ago.


     


    Google now is amazing. Your feelings will change greatly once Google releases it for iOS or Chrome. It is the future. It will be common place (not only Google now but many other services like it). Get ready for it.

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