Samsung pre-announces earnings, profits surge 53% to $7.7 billion

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 67
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member
    cnocbui wrote: »
    You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate.  These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.

    Aaah. Got it.

    So we're talking

    Phones
    Tablets
    PCs
    TV sets
    DVD Players

    Given that they make so many products across so many price ranges then I stll don't understand why they don't make at least five times what Apple makes.
  • Reply 62 of 67
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,118member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KDarling View Post


    1) Notice also that with Samsung, "if product sales are subject to customer acceptance, revenue is not recognized until customer acceptance occurs".


     


    2) Not a claim.  Fact.  Court records from last year's Koh trial ......


     


    3) Last year, I heard about it from Tim Cook during two quarterly earnings calls, just like everyone else.  The first time was explaining why iPhone sales were down far more than could be expected from people simply holding off for a new model.  Cook had to explain that the previous quarter's sales into retailers were 2.6 million more than were actually sold through to end users during that quarter.


     


    4) Every company has quarters where sales drop because of retailers overbuying the previous quarter.  In most cases, the inventory eventually sells, so it all works out over time.



    Thanks for the detailed response. However....


     


    1) You completely ignored the point here that Apple reports channel quantity (as your own point #3 acknowledges) as well as volumes. Samsung does not. As a result, you can estimate Apple's actual sales (and average selling price) quite precisely, but with Samsung, you cannot.


     


    2) The court records data you provide relate to an early stage in the life of Samsung's product. Not only are the data very stale and the numbers laughably low (perhaps one-tenth to one-twentieth of Apple's tablet sales), but they are also incredibly volatile because the product had just been introduced. If anything, the fact that you are only able to trot out two-year old volume data tells us that it's impossibly difficult to figure out what Samsung actually sold.


     


    3) Granted. But again, the point is, given Cook's numbers, we can precisely estimate Apple's actual sales (ref, point #1 above).


     


    4) Perhaps. With Apple, we know that it does since we can actually figure it out. With Samsung, all we have are stale data for a product that barely sells (and from such an early stage in its life cycle to be useless), and you are using that to extrapolate to a product (handsets) that Samsung claims they 'sell' in the many tens of millions.


     


    Unconvincing.


     


    The bottom line is, if things are as good as Samsung says it is, they would provide more honest, comprehensive, current data. They used to. They now don't, for some reason. (What do you think that reason is?).

  • Reply 63 of 67
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,118member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents.  That implies a considerable workforce.


     


    Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone.  Samsung Electronics  have about 206,000 employees worldwide.



    If that's the case, I'd have to say that, both on a per-employee and per-dollar basis, their workforce is pathetically unproductive compared to Apple's.

  • Reply 64 of 67
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,118member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rayz View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post



    You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate.  These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.




    Aaah. Got it.



    So we're talking



    Phones

    Tablets

    PCs

    TV sets

    DVD Players



    Given that they make so many products across so many price ranges then I stll don't understand why they don't make at least five times what Apple makes.


    Actually, it's much lower.


     


    Samsung Electronics falls into two broad categories: consumer electronics (PCs, DVDs, TVs etc) and telecom (mobile devices incl. phones/tablets and telecom equipment). Samsung does not break out revenue or operating profit for devices v. equipment, but even if we attribute all of the telecom segment sales to devices, it is less than two-thirds (2012 data) of SE sales.


     


    So, the operating profit from devices are at most 7.7*0.67 = $5.16B. 

  • Reply 65 of 67


    Seeing u say this , I can feel the great work done by the market .


     


    Next year today , Apple will be hitting its 52 weeks high . Wanna laugh at me? Yes, laugh me now. image

  • Reply 66 of 67
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,796member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crazy_mac_lover View Post


    Seeing u say this , I can feel the great work done by the market .


     


    Next year today , Apple will be hitting its 52 weeks high . Wanna laugh at me? Yes, laugh me now. image



    As a stockholder I hope you are right. A year ago I never thought I would be hoping for even $500 a share. Now I am hoping it can at least stay above $400. 

  • Reply 67 of 67
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post


    Didnt know you could profit from shipped items that have to be repurchased backed later on





    Korean GAAP reports sales in NET SALES, meaning Sales - (Returns + Discounts) = NET SALES.




    So those numbers takes into consideration after the fact.

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