How anyone manages to access web sites with a screen that size is a complete mystery to me. The current size is fine for pretty much everything else I do with it, but it might as well not even have a web browser at that size.
Just because the phones are getting older from a design perspective, doesn't mean they are continually getting cheaper. At some point they may even become more expensive as the components become completely outdated. Just look at the cost of DDR2 for an example. Hardly anyone uses it now so the price has actually gone up from its historic lows.
That's a valid point but with Apple I think we need to assume that if they are gong to the trouble to produce an older device they have likely secured the requisite components at a reasonable price, judged the demand for this older device (thus making it worth the effort), and made sure there is enough production time that won't reasonably short any higher-profit devices from being assembled.
iMacs, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and iPad minis come in two screen sizes. Maybe the intention is to offer a "by design" low-cost replacement for the iPhone 4S instead of just moving the iPhone 5 into that role. I'm speculating of course because this is just some analyst's pet theory. It's not like Phil Schiller told him this, and supply chain-sourced rumors are not that reliable.
The next big thing in wearable computing is Google underwear, with sensors and wifi chips that let you post Google+ updates from your nether regions.
I was reading that there is a new bra being released in India with GPS and electric shock to ward off sexual attackers and notify the Police of the location. It is called the anti-rape underware.
That's a valid point but with Apple I think we need to assume that if they are gong to the trouble to produce an older device they have likely secured the requisite components at a reasonable price, judged the demand for this older device (thus making it worth the effort), and made sure there is enough production time that won't reasonably short any higher-profit devices from being assembled.
True for now but soon I'd think those chip fabs would start to dry up, especially the Samsung CPUs
That's a valid point but with Apple I think we need to assume that if they are gong to the trouble to produce an older device they have likely secured the requisite components at a reasonable price, judged the demand for this older device (thus making it worth the effort), and made sure there is enough production time that won't reasonably short any higher-profit devices from being assembled.
The iPhone 4 series with the glass case probably has a higher material cost than the new iPhone 5 case.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4S replaced by 4S guts in an iPhone 5 case.
Apple has laid down the law and said they won't be accepting any new apps that don't support the 4" screen resolution so now seems to be the time for them to make that sort of change to the hardware lineup. As a first step simply making a larger iPhone using the same resolution would offer bigger viewing of multimedia content and offer baby boomers a phone they might be able to use without first having to find their reading glasses.
The high end geek market would, of course, laugh their asses off at a 4.9" phone with 640x1136 resolution, but they all have rooted Android devices and wouldn't be caught dead inside the walled garden. Apple isn't losing any sales from that crowd.
Just because the phones are getting older from a design perspective, doesn't mean they are continually getting cheaper. At some point they may even become more expensive as the components become completely outdated. Just look at the cost of DDR2 for an example. Hardly anyone uses it now so the price has actually gone up from its historic lows.
You mean basic economics supply & demand is real!?
You have a good point. The less parts they order, I'm sure the price goes up at some point. Not to mention popularity goes down as the product is seen as stale.
There are several problems with keeping the older phones as their cheaper alternatives. Mstone a few posts above hit one key reason with older component parts not always being cheaper. But people also just like to feel like they are getting a current release and not a phone from a year or two ago. Even if the specs are identical or maybe even not quite as good as last year's premium iPhone.
Secondly, these "free" and $99 older iPhone's are only cheap with a subsidy and a 2 year contract. The vast majority of the world's consumers do not purchase phones with subsidies. They have to buy the iPhone 4S at full price which can range from $549 to $700 or more right now depending on the country just for the 16GB version. The nearly 3 year old iPhone 4 new is still around $450 last time I checked. Even here in the U.S. with T-Mobiles latest moves and hints from Verizon that things might change Apple has to be prepared for a time when their sales might take a big hit as fewer and fewer people receive any phone subsidy at all. So selling last year's model at $550 is not a good long tern strategy as people move away from subsidies.
There are several problems with keeping the older phones as their cheaper alternatives. Mstone a few posts above hit one key reason with older component parts not always being cheaper. But people also just like to feel like they are getting a current release and not a phone from a year or two ago. Even if the specs are identical or maybe even not quite as good as last year's premium iPhone.
Secondly, these "free" and $99 older iPhone's are only cheap with a subsidy and a 2 year contract. The vast majority of the world's consumers do not purchase phones with subsidies. They have to buy the iPhone 4S at full price which can range from $549 to $700 or more right now depending on the country just for the 16GB version. The nearly 3 year old iPhone 4 new is still around $450 last time I checked. Even here in the U.S. with T-Mobiles latest moves and hints from Verizon that things might change Apple has to be prepared for a time when their sales might take a big hit as fewer and fewer people receive any phone subsidy at all. So selling last year's model at $550 is not a good long tern strategy as people move away from subsidies.
Apple doesn't do cheap just to expand MS. The 4 was the second most popular phone last qtr. that means some people see no problems with a two y o phone
The high end geek market would, of course, laugh their asses off at a 4.9" phone with 640x1136 resolution, but they all have rooted Android devices and wouldn't be caught dead inside the walled garden. Apple isn't losing any sales from that crowd.
I strongly disagree. I can't be bothered to search for a link but I remember a study from about a year ago that said less than 2% of Android phones were rooted. I doubt that figure has changed that much. Android and iPhone geeks are certainly the loudest voices you hear all over the internet but that is just because 98% of smart phone owners are busy with work, family, and life. The last thing they want to do or have any time for is to log on to a forum and moan about phones. Geeks are extremely misrepresentative of the wider market because they are such a tiny fraction in reality.
I am sure there are many non-geeks that are perfectly fine with Android and are used to it and afraid of changing and learning a new platform. But the iPad has been extremely successful so you have many Android smartphone owners who also own an iPad and would not be afraid to try out an iPhone but are waiting until it has a larger display. We won't know until Apple releases one and then we can have actual numbers of switchers to compare.
The iPhone 4 series with the glass case probably has a higher material cost than the new iPhone 5 case.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4S replaced by 4S guts in an iPhone 5 case.
I think that's very well could happen, especially if they do plan to release another size for developers to support.
Apple doesn't do cheap just to expand MS. The 4 was the second most popular phone last qtr. that means some people see no problems with a two y o phone
Again, that is because in America you get subsidies. Over 80% of the world doesn't use the subsidy model. How did the 4 and 4S in countries where there is no subsidy? How many iPhone 4S did Apple sell at the full $549 retail price in that time compared to ones with a subsidy? And subsidies in America may not disappear soon but if Verizon follows through and copies T-Mobil'es plan options you can expect AT&T and Sprint to follow suit very quickly. There is no reason for our phone bills to remain the same price once we have paid off the phone at around month 17 to 21 depending on plan and carrier.
All form factors are a mess after a few years time. So I don't understand these talks about a 'bigger' iPhone. I do understand the talk about smaller tablets. And the soft merger of notebook and tablet. As a phone 4 inch was way too big and clunky. As a tablet its still a bit too small. Nice for 160 character texts, writing a reply email is already uncomfortable. Never really liked the 4 inch format. A phone must be small to fit your jeans pocket, say 2,5"-3" max: iPhone nano (Yeah!). Jobs said a tablet had to be 10 inch factor. In the end he was 'wrong' ditching the 7 inch factor for iPad. 7 inch is the best for public transport commuters. 7 inch could have wiped out all garmin/tomtom carnav displays a few years ago. I bought the 10" iPad for my 'macless' mother, she loves it. The ipad mini fits in my bag. It's about time for apple to mix up 'n merge the three products (Phone -Tablet-Notebook). It's silly the iPads can't make or take a stupid phone call when you bought the 3g option. With voice and sms in decline the use for the phone format is decreasing. It is silly a tablet the price of a notebook still has an iOS and not a full operating system. iPad needs an OSx & thunderbolt. Apple is just a little bit late and lazy, cos they know we'll buy everything in the end.
I still don't get this 'without a contract' issue everyone has. How many people do NOT have a contract for cell service? I've been with Cingular/AT&T since 2004.
Is there a site that shows how many people are not on contracts vs. those that are and how long people stay with a carrier?
Please correct me, but I just can't believe there are that many people needing flexibility every 2 years to move between carriers.
The iPhone 4 series with the glass case probably has a higher material cost than the new iPhone 5 case.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4S replaced by 4S guts in an iPhone 5 case.
I think that's very well could happen, especially if they do plan to release another size for developers to support.
How are they going to fit the larger components in that thin case? iPhone 5 case requires an iPhone 5 screen making the rest of the 4S guts sort of incompatible from the start.
Comments
In the 80's, I had a Mac Plus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla
There are two sizes right now.
Yes. They are "Too Small" and Too Smaller."
How anyone manages to access web sites with a screen that size is a complete mystery to me. The current size is fine for pretty much everything else I do with it, but it might as well not even have a web browser at that size.
That's a valid point but with Apple I think we need to assume that if they are gong to the trouble to produce an older device they have likely secured the requisite components at a reasonable price, judged the demand for this older device (thus making it worth the effort), and made sure there is enough production time that won't reasonably short any higher-profit devices from being assembled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
The next big thing in wearable computing is Google underwear, with sensors and wifi chips that let you post Google+ updates from your nether regions.
I was reading that there is a new bra being released in India with GPS and electric shock to ward off sexual attackers and notify the Police of the location. It is called the anti-rape underware.
http://www.nbc12.com/story/21908886/3-indian-students-invent-anti-rape-underwear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
The next big thing in wearable computing is Google underwear, with sensors and wifi chips that let you post Google+ updates from your nether regions.
You think? That would just make it identical to Facebook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
That's a valid point but with Apple I think we need to assume that if they are gong to the trouble to produce an older device they have likely secured the requisite components at a reasonable price, judged the demand for this older device (thus making it worth the effort), and made sure there is enough production time that won't reasonably short any higher-profit devices from being assembled.
True for now but soon I'd think those chip fabs would start to dry up, especially the Samsung CPUs
... k done reading
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
That's a valid point but with Apple I think we need to assume that if they are gong to the trouble to produce an older device they have likely secured the requisite components at a reasonable price, judged the demand for this older device (thus making it worth the effort), and made sure there is enough production time that won't reasonably short any higher-profit devices from being assembled.
The iPhone 4 series with the glass case probably has a higher material cost than the new iPhone 5 case.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4S replaced by 4S guts in an iPhone 5 case.
Apple has laid down the law and said they won't be accepting any new apps that don't support the 4" screen resolution so now seems to be the time for them to make that sort of change to the hardware lineup. As a first step simply making a larger iPhone using the same resolution would offer bigger viewing of multimedia content and offer baby boomers a phone they might be able to use without first having to find their reading glasses.
The high end geek market would, of course, laugh their asses off at a 4.9" phone with 640x1136 resolution, but they all have rooted Android devices and wouldn't be caught dead inside the walled garden. Apple isn't losing any sales from that crowd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Just because the phones are getting older from a design perspective, doesn't mean they are continually getting cheaper. At some point they may even become more expensive as the components become completely outdated. Just look at the cost of DDR2 for an example. Hardly anyone uses it now so the price has actually gone up from its historic lows.
You mean basic economics supply & demand is real!?
You have a good point. The less parts they order, I'm sure the price goes up at some point. Not to mention popularity goes down as the product is seen as stale.
There are several problems with keeping the older phones as their cheaper alternatives. Mstone a few posts above hit one key reason with older component parts not always being cheaper. But people also just like to feel like they are getting a current release and not a phone from a year or two ago. Even if the specs are identical or maybe even not quite as good as last year's premium iPhone.
Secondly, these "free" and $99 older iPhone's are only cheap with a subsidy and a 2 year contract. The vast majority of the world's consumers do not purchase phones with subsidies. They have to buy the iPhone 4S at full price which can range from $549 to $700 or more right now depending on the country just for the 16GB version. The nearly 3 year old iPhone 4 new is still around $450 last time I checked. Even here in the U.S. with T-Mobiles latest moves and hints from Verizon that things might change Apple has to be prepared for a time when their sales might take a big hit as fewer and fewer people receive any phone subsidy at all. So selling last year's model at $550 is not a good long tern strategy as people move away from subsidies.
I know what analyst to steer clear from: Brian White, he claimed iRing.
He needs to be fired for that IMO.
Apple doesn't do cheap just to expand MS. The 4 was the second most popular phone last qtr. that means some people see no problems with a two y o phone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
The high end geek market would, of course, laugh their asses off at a 4.9" phone with 640x1136 resolution, but they all have rooted Android devices and wouldn't be caught dead inside the walled garden. Apple isn't losing any sales from that crowd.
I strongly disagree. I can't be bothered to search for a link but I remember a study from about a year ago that said less than 2% of Android phones were rooted. I doubt that figure has changed that much. Android and iPhone geeks are certainly the loudest voices you hear all over the internet but that is just because 98% of smart phone owners are busy with work, family, and life. The last thing they want to do or have any time for is to log on to a forum and moan about phones. Geeks are extremely misrepresentative of the wider market because they are such a tiny fraction in reality.
I am sure there are many non-geeks that are perfectly fine with Android and are used to it and afraid of changing and learning a new platform. But the iPad has been extremely successful so you have many Android smartphone owners who also own an iPad and would not be afraid to try out an iPhone but are waiting until it has a larger display. We won't know until Apple releases one and then we can have actual numbers of switchers to compare.
I think that's very well could happen, especially if they do plan to release another size for developers to support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Apple doesn't do cheap just to expand MS. The 4 was the second most popular phone last qtr. that means some people see no problems with a two y o phone
Again, that is because in America you get subsidies. Over 80% of the world doesn't use the subsidy model. How did the 4 and 4S in countries where there is no subsidy? How many iPhone 4S did Apple sell at the full $549 retail price in that time compared to ones with a subsidy? And subsidies in America may not disappear soon but if Verizon follows through and copies T-Mobil'es plan options you can expect AT&T and Sprint to follow suit very quickly. There is no reason for our phone bills to remain the same price once we have paid off the phone at around month 17 to 21 depending on plan and carrier.
As a phone 4 inch was way too big and clunky. As a tablet its still a bit too small. Nice for 160 character texts, writing a reply email is already uncomfortable. Never really liked the 4 inch format. A phone must be small to fit your jeans pocket, say 2,5"-3" max: iPhone nano (Yeah!). Jobs said a tablet had to be 10 inch factor. In the end he was 'wrong' ditching the 7 inch factor for iPad. 7 inch is the best for public transport commuters. 7 inch could have wiped out all garmin/tomtom carnav displays a few years ago. I bought the 10" iPad for my 'macless' mother, she loves it.
The ipad mini fits in my bag. It's about time for apple to mix up 'n merge the three products (Phone -Tablet-Notebook). It's silly the iPads can't make or take a stupid phone call when you bought the 3g option. With voice and sms in decline the use for the phone format is decreasing. It is silly a tablet the price of a notebook still has an iOS and not a full operating system. iPad needs an OSx & thunderbolt.
Apple is just a little bit late and lazy, cos they know we'll buy everything in the end.
Is there a site that shows how many people are not on contracts vs. those that are and how long people stay with a carrier?
Please correct me, but I just can't believe there are that many people needing flexibility every 2 years to move between carriers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
The iPhone 4 series with the glass case probably has a higher material cost than the new iPhone 5 case.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4S replaced by 4S guts in an iPhone 5 case.
I think that's very well could happen, especially if they do plan to release another size for developers to support.
How are they going to fit the larger components in that thin case? iPhone 5 case requires an iPhone 5 screen making the rest of the 4S guts sort of incompatible from the start.