The difference is that when government makes abusive decisions, there is little accountability.
I don't think many people would disagree with the corruptibility and incompetence of government bodies and the lack of accountability but members of government are consumers too, they depend on businesses for money and they maintain essential social services. They have little choice but to keep the majority of people happy because they can be removed from power and as consumers, are affected by their own decisions. Companies only have to do what's right for themselves - they have a singular interest. The free market should be able to sort problems out but that only works in theory. If Exxon Mobil decided to screw everyone over by raising fuel prices, is everyone just going to cycle to work in protest?
If Apple makes stupid decisions with the App Store, I wouldn't switch to Android because I'd have to put with all the other crap that comes with it. The free market can only regulate itself in a very weak manner.
By the way, who makes the decision of what is "for the greater good?" Governments?
As described above, a party that is not invested in the outcome. Examples would be a sports referee or a court judge. Everyone is corruptible of course and has a certain degree of inherent bias so it's never perfect but that's why the degree of impartiality is important.
That just takes care of the 'who makes the decision' though. The other problem is the determination of what is the greater good. It's like the example of preventing price fixing. Is it better to allow companies to set their own minimum levels of pricing to avoid making so little profit that it's no longer viable to do business and affects the entire economy or is it better to prevent companies from obtaining a supply monopoly and colluding to profiteer from consumers?
Everything has a balance and the impartial have to weigh each side to find the right one.
I don't think many people would disagree with the corruptibility and incompetence of government bodies and the lack of accountability but members of government are consumers too, they depend on businesses for money and they maintain essential social services. They have little choice but to keep the majority of people happy because they can be removed from power and as consumers, are affected by their own decisions. Companies only have to do what's right for themselves - they have a singular interest. The free market should be able to sort problems out but that only works in theory. If Exxon Mobil decided to screw everyone over by raising fuel prices, is everyone just going to cycle to work in protest?
Everything has a balance and the impartial have to weigh each side to find the right one.
The proponents of a completely free market with little or no government interference seem to gloss over the earliest incarnation of capitalism, namely the period following the industrial revolution. the "free market" had no qualms about; small children being killed in the name of profit, large areas of country side burning in the name of rail transportation, Pea Soupers that killed hundreds of thousands, foods that were poisonous.
Sure Laissez-faire Capitalism is great, unfortunately it is only great for 5% of the population, not too bad for 25% and a bit shite for the remaining 70%....
Independence from Britain was inevitable at some point in history due to the sheer distance between the respective lands, even if the issue of representation had been solved.
That the United States does not have an official language works best to further the messages championed by its founding.
@ lightknight, no offense intended matey but, I doubt any further study in the history of Frances International trade policies and practices would alter my opinion one iota. Therefore I am not going to waste my time. cheers
Oh I wish more people in Europe would understand this. I try to stay the hell out of Europe as much as I can because of the insane government meddling. The UK has completely lost the plot in the last decade, there are insane rules for everything. It suffocates me, I can't bare it.
How horrible yes... that's why all countries of the EU have a lower Gini index than the US.
As a Frenchman myself, I can tell you this government is made up mainly (?) of clowns, and I am being very kind with them by saying this. France, and this particularly this government, is famous for changing business and especially tax rule every so often that it is impossible to plan any business development in this country anymore. Like all her colleagues, this minister hopes to become popular by posturing and also hopes to make people forget how bad they are and how low they are in the opinion polls (about 26% positive opinions now and going down). And like her colleagues, she is speaking nonsense about things that she does not know or understand. She's just an annoyance and an embarrassment, like most of this government. Let's just hope her nuisance power is low enough to be as quickly dismissed as so many previous "actions" by this government.
And I agree. I have never once claimed that I would be a good CEO of Apple.
I am not very diplomatic, many decisions made would piss many people off, I would never apologize and I would probably pull Apple entirely out of certain countries.
And you'd also run any country into the ground with those politics. Not that they need you for that, given the state of the French/US/UK debts.
By the way, what you call "demonization of the rich" is just pleading for a return to the tax levels of the 70s, when the tax system actually worked and did not unfairly help the super rich get even richer thanks to the hard work of the middle class, which I guess is you, or you'd not be on an Internet board, but probably on a surfboard ^^
As a Frenchman myself, I can tell you this government is made up mainly (?) of clowns, and I am being very kind with them by saying this.
France, and this particularly this government, is famous for changing business and especially tax rule every so often that it is impossible to plan any business development in this country anymore.
Like all her colleagues, this minister hopes to become popular by posturing and also hopes to make people forget how bad they are and how low they are in the opinion polls (about 26% positive opinions now and going down). And like her colleagues, she is speaking nonsense about things that she does not know or understand. She's just an annoyance and an embarrassment, like most of this government. Let's just hope her nuisance power is low enough to be as quickly dismissed as so many previous "actions" by this government.
The previous government ran France into the ground, and this government is trying to solve the situation, which given the economy is far from obvious. The options offered to them are all the worse that clowns like Luke_MacWalker keep whining. True fact: for five years, the right wingers (and sadly, part of the savvy left-wingers with money) used right-wing provided (understand, previous government) tax holes to bring the not-so-morally saved money to Chili, Morroco and Argentina. And that's for the legal part... Go whine somewhere else, because that tax evasion is the reason why the current government has to find money now.
Hey Luke, go plan business development somewhere else. Okthxbye.
Still, any gender-based commentary of this kind indicates the object-status of females in human society. Sigh.
Disagree. Women make the same kind of comments about me hot guys. It just indicates that sexuality is a basis of human relationships, and I'm happy with that ^^
... and they saved ours long before that, so they're even. /s
Should it even matter anyway?
France helped the US because it was the right thing to do, and it actually annoyed England (never a thing to be turned down for the French).
The US helped Europe because it was the right thing to do, and because Japan attacked them, which brought America in a frontal war with the Axis.
What matters is that, in the end, Americans, French, or even Russians and Germans that were the enemy (Russia changed sides... when Germany invaded them), were not abstract communities, but real men and women suffering real pain and dying real deaths.
Forget it, there has not been a right wing government in France for more than 30 years.
The current government is not trying to save anything else than its a** and the ones of its traditional "customers".
Nonetheless it's funny to read how its supporters criticizes the previous government for doing exactly what they expects the current one to do (giving more money away, rising taxes, just like the previous one).
> Go whine somewhere else, because that tax evasion is the reason why the current government has to find money now.
This is way beyond the ridiculous limit, should one ever be invented! :-D
You are just believing the propaganda. Good luck with the next excuse that will follow when this one proves empty. Continue giving up your freewill little by little, like you already did with your liberty of thinking obviously.
> Hey Luke, go plan business development somewhere else. Okthxbye.
It's already being done, thank you. I did not need your advice to move along... and away from France! :-D
> Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.
Comments
I don't think many people would disagree with the corruptibility and incompetence of government bodies and the lack of accountability but members of government are consumers too, they depend on businesses for money and they maintain essential social services. They have little choice but to keep the majority of people happy because they can be removed from power and as consumers, are affected by their own decisions. Companies only have to do what's right for themselves - they have a singular interest. The free market should be able to sort problems out but that only works in theory. If Exxon Mobil decided to screw everyone over by raising fuel prices, is everyone just going to cycle to work in protest?
If Apple makes stupid decisions with the App Store, I wouldn't switch to Android because I'd have to put with all the other crap that comes with it. The free market can only regulate itself in a very weak manner.
As described above, a party that is not invested in the outcome. Examples would be a sports referee or a court judge. Everyone is corruptible of course and has a certain degree of inherent bias so it's never perfect but that's why the degree of impartiality is important.
That just takes care of the 'who makes the decision' though. The other problem is the determination of what is the greater good. It's like the example of preventing price fixing. Is it better to allow companies to set their own minimum levels of pricing to avoid making so little profit that it's no longer viable to do business and affects the entire economy or is it better to prevent companies from obtaining a supply monopoly and colluding to profiteer from consumers?
Everything has a balance and the impartial have to weigh each side to find the right one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by hungover
Without the help of the French, you would still be speaking English
Why are you pretending the United States doesn't speak English?
I should have qualified my post by saying English proper and that English would be the "official" language of the (whole) USA.
As things stand only 60% of states recognise English as their official language http://www.us-english.org/view/13 .
The USA is not officially an English speaking country..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
I don't think many people would disagree with the corruptibility and incompetence of government bodies and the lack of accountability but members of government are consumers too, they depend on businesses for money and they maintain essential social services. They have little choice but to keep the majority of people happy because they can be removed from power and as consumers, are affected by their own decisions. Companies only have to do what's right for themselves - they have a singular interest. The free market should be able to sort problems out but that only works in theory. If Exxon Mobil decided to screw everyone over by raising fuel prices, is everyone just going to cycle to work in protest?
Everything has a balance and the impartial have to weigh each side to find the right one.
The proponents of a completely free market with little or no government interference seem to gloss over the earliest incarnation of capitalism, namely the period following the industrial revolution. the "free market" had no qualms about; small children being killed in the name of profit, large areas of country side burning in the name of rail transportation, Pea Soupers that killed hundreds of thousands, foods that were poisonous.
Sure Laissez-faire Capitalism is great, unfortunately it is only great for 5% of the population, not too bad for 25% and a bit shite for the remaining 70%....
Originally Posted by hungover
…English proper…
Again, why are you pretending the US doesn't speak English?
…and that English would be the "official" language of the (whole) USA.
Independence was inevitable.
The USA is not officially an English speaking country..
Right, and I think it works best that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Again, why are you pretending the US doesn't speak English?
Independence was inevitable.
Right, and I think it works best that way.
Sense of humour bypass?
I don't even understand your 2nd and 3rd points.
Originally Posted by hungover
I don't even understand your 2nd and 3rd points.
Independence from Britain was inevitable at some point in history due to the sheer distance between the respective lands, even if the issue of representation had been solved.
That the United States does not have an official language works best to further the messages championed by its founding.
I doubt any further study in the history of Frances International trade policies and practices would alter my opinion one iota.
Therefore I am not going to waste my time.
cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
Oh I wish more people in Europe would understand this. I try to stay the hell out of Europe as much as I can because of the insane government meddling. The UK has completely lost the plot in the last decade, there are insane rules for everything. It suffocates me, I can't bare it.
How horrible yes... that's why all countries of the EU have a lower Gini index than the US.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Gini+index (click on more several times to see all countries)
We prefer equality (or at least we try), to privilegies.
France, and this particularly this government, is famous for changing business and especially tax rule every so often that it is impossible to plan any business development in this country anymore.
Like all her colleagues, this minister hopes to become popular by posturing and also hopes to make people forget how bad they are and how low they are in the opinion polls (about 26% positive opinions now and going down). And like her colleagues, she is speaking nonsense about things that she does not know or understand. She's just an annoyance and an embarrassment, like most of this government. Let's just hope her nuisance power is low enough to be as quickly dismissed as so many previous "actions" by this government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
And I agree. I have never once claimed that I would be a good CEO of Apple.
I am not very diplomatic, many decisions made would piss many people off, I would never apologize and I would probably pull Apple entirely out of certain countries.
And you'd also run any country into the ground with those politics. Not that they need you for that, given the state of the French/US/UK debts.
By the way, what you call "demonization of the rich" is just pleading for a return to the tax levels of the 70s, when the tax system actually worked and did not unfairly help the super rich get even richer thanks to the hard work of the middle class, which I guess is you, or you'd not be on an Internet board, but probably on a surfboard ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke_MacWalker
As a Frenchman myself, I can tell you this government is made up mainly (?) of clowns, and I am being very kind with them by saying this.
France, and this particularly this government, is famous for changing business and especially tax rule every so often that it is impossible to plan any business development in this country anymore.
Like all her colleagues, this minister hopes to become popular by posturing and also hopes to make people forget how bad they are and how low they are in the opinion polls (about 26% positive opinions now and going down). And like her colleagues, she is speaking nonsense about things that she does not know or understand. She's just an annoyance and an embarrassment, like most of this government. Let's just hope her nuisance power is low enough to be as quickly dismissed as so many previous "actions" by this government.
The previous government ran France into the ground, and this government is trying to solve the situation, which given the economy is far from obvious. The options offered to them are all the worse that clowns like Luke_MacWalker keep whining. True fact: for five years, the right wingers (and sadly, part of the savvy left-wingers with money) used right-wing provided (understand, previous government) tax holes to bring the not-so-morally saved money to Chili, Morroco and Argentina. And that's for the legal part... Go whine somewhere else, because that tax evasion is the reason why the current government has to find money now.
Hey Luke, go plan business development somewhere else. Okthxbye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria
Still, any gender-based commentary of this kind indicates the object-status of females in human society. Sigh.
Disagree. Women make the same kind of comments about me hot guys. It just indicates that sexuality is a basis of human relationships, and I'm happy with that ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobM
@ lightknight, no offense intended matey but,
I doubt any further study in the history of Frances International trade policies and practices would alter my opinion one iota.
Therefore I am not going to waste my time.
cheers
Well, if studying the subject cannot alter your preconception, I guess you're right. Don't waste your time ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
... and they saved ours long before that, so they're even. /s
Should it even matter anyway?
France helped the US because it was the right thing to do, and it actually annoyed England (never a thing to be turned down for the French).
The US helped Europe because it was the right thing to do, and because Japan attacked them, which brought America in a frontal war with the Axis.
What matters is that, in the end, Americans, French, or even Russians and Germans that were the enemy (Russia changed sides... when Germany invaded them), were not abstract communities, but real men and women suffering real pain and dying real deaths.
For a simple explanation for others: (...)
Forget it, there has not been a right wing government in France for more than 30 years.
The current government is not trying to save anything else than its a** and the ones of its traditional "customers".
Nonetheless it's funny to read how its supporters criticizes the previous government for doing exactly what they expects the current one to do (giving more money away, rising taxes, just like the previous one).
> Go whine somewhere else, because that tax evasion is the reason why the current government has to find money now.
This is way beyond the ridiculous limit, should one ever be invented! :-D
You are just believing the propaganda. Good luck with the next excuse that will follow when this one proves empty. Continue giving up your freewill little by little, like you already did with your liberty of thinking obviously.
> Hey Luke, go plan business development somewhere else. Okthxbye.
It's already being done, thank you. I did not need your advice to move along... and away from France! :-D
> Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.
Yes, it shows! :-D