Chinese site uses Apple's own enterprise tools to distribute free pirated apps

135

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 91
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    ascii wrote: »
    I don't believe in "natural predisposition." I believe our bodies are controlled by our minds, and what our minds do depends on what ideas they contain, and that we learn all our ideas from people and books etc, we are not born with any. Since we are not born with any innate ideas, "natural predisposition" is BS.

    I also believe that our moral perspective is a function of our ideas, not just our factual perspective. One person can be raised on Jane Austin and another on Mein Kampf. And also, there is no reason to believe that ideas would be uniformly distributed across the world. Why would they be? There are myriad influences, historical and otherwise why people in one part of the world might believe things different to another part. If one village learns something, some new scientific theory, but there is a big mountain between them and the next village, conceivably that idea might never be transmitted.

    So given all this (that morality is a function of ideas, and that ideas are not evenly distributed geographically), there is absolutely a valid argument to say that an entire continent of people might have different morals.

    In no way are different morals the same thing as no morals. You can take two people and there will be something that each has a different take on regarding right and wrong, but that's not what is being said here. What is clearly being thrown around is that there are nations, a continent, of people whose have no moral compass, people who lack a conscience, and whom all feel the exact same way about it.

    Can you honestly say that everyone on your continent hold the exact same values? Of course you can't, and you have done so with Asia which is made up of a vary diverse number of cultures.

    I've been around the world and quite frankly I'm always happy to get back to the US. It's not because I think other cultures are wrong but they are too different for me to really feel at home in. I also really like American food, especially the Americanized versions of Chinese and Italian. No one is saying you have to enjoy other cultures but certainly can't be considered objective or fair when you claim that they are wrong and you are right with your "bad by education" hypothesis above.


    PS: Have you ever downloaded an illegal song, video, or software in your life? If not, do you others that have? If so, were they all Asian?
  • Reply 42 of 91
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    In no way are different morals the same thing as no morals. You can take two people and there will be something that each has a different take on regarding right and wrong, but that's not what is being said here. What is clearly being thrown around is that there are nations, a continent, of people whose have no moral compass, people who lack a conscience, and whom all feel the exact same way about it.



    Can you honestly say that everyone on your continent hold the exact same values? Of course you can't, and you have done so with Asia which is made up of a vary diverse number of cultures.



    I've been around the world and quite frankly I'm always happy to get back to the US. It's not because I think other cultures are wrong but they are too different for me to really feel at home in. I also really like American food, especially the Americanized versions of Chinese and Italian. No one is saying you have to enjoy other cultures but certainly can't be considered objective or fair when you claim that they are wrong and you are right with your "bad by education" hypothesis above.





    PS: Have you ever downloaded an illegal song, video, or software in your life? If not, do you others that have? If so, were they all Asian?


    I don't think the Chinese have no morals, I just think they have different morals, ones that don't place as much value on private property. When you emphasise the group over the individual, as communism does, it's a short step to thinking the individual doesn't have to be compensated by the group for his work, and a short step after that to widespread piracy.


     


    Do I think everyone in China has the same values, or anyone in any country? Well, my position is that morals come from ideas. So the diversity of morals depends on the diversity of ideas. And the diversity of ideas depends on things like free speech laws, censorship, access to libraries and computers. So I would say there is probably more moral uniformity over there than in the West, but not total uniformity. From an outsiders perspective, someone who doesn't want their apps nicked, what really matters is the dominant morality. Even though you might have sympathy for the minority who believe in private property, if they have no influence, you have no choice but to not count them in your thinking. If they have 1% influence you count them 1% in your thinking, etc.


     


    I personally don't pirate, no. As someone who makes their living selling software it would be self-destructive to encourage that sort of thing. But I'm sure plenty of people of all races pirate software. Piracy is an action, and actions are caused by ideas, and any person of any race can adopt any idea. But that is only a potentiality. In actuality, different ideas dominate in different geographies.

  • Reply 43 of 91
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    ascii wrote: »
    I don't think the Chinese have no morals, I just think they have different morals, ones that don't place as much value on private property. When you emphasise the group over the individual, as communism does, it's a short step to thinking the individual doesn't have to be compensated by the group for his work, and a short step after that to widespread piracy.

    Do I think everyone in China has the same values, or anyone in any country? Well, my position is that morals come from ideas. So the diversity of morals depends on the diversity of ideas. And the diversity of ideas depends on things like free speech laws, censorship, access to libraries and computers. So I would say there is probably more moral uniformity over there than in the West, but not total uniformity. From an outsiders perspective, someone who doesn't want their apps nicked, what really matters is the dominant morality. Even though you might have sympathy for the minority who believe in private property, if they have no influence, you have no choice but to not count them in your thinking. If they have 1% influence you count them 1% in your thinking, etc.

    I personally don't pirate, no. As someone who makes their living selling software it would be self-destructive to encourage that sort of thing. But I'm sure plenty of people of all races pirate software. Piracy is an action, and actions are caused by ideas, and any person of any race can adopt any idea. But that is only a potentiality. In actuality, different ideas dominate in different geographies.

    1) Putting different values on things is very, very, very different from the OP saying they have no morals.

    2) If these values come from ideas then where did they start? Either with man or you have to say a deity. If with man then you can't deny that man can change how they perceive right and wrong. If you are American would you say you are for slavery? Why not since the nation has a long history of it? Aren't your values part of the idea that culture was founded upon or do you simply alter your values as the culture shifts its values? Does that mean 20 years ago you thought homosexuality was a crime against humanity? Does that mean 40 years ago you thought interracial unions were a crime against humanity? If it's just a collective idea then how does it change? How can two people whom live in the same culture have very different ideas?

    3) You can't say that the majority has no concern for private property. It's as foolish (although less hyperbolic) to say that North Koreans have no interest in colourful textiles. Did monstrosity do anything about it when he was in the Asiatic "region" of these morally corrupt people who don't value private property? If so, what did he do? If not, why would automatically assume that anyone else around him wouldn't feel the same way he did? How do separate the people mulling around like him or trying to earn enough money to keep their family alive from those that really have no conscience? The fact is many don't which is why have the bigoted and racist comments that we do. We lump anything that is different from us into one category and then deem us better people for having a shared disdain.

    4) You''ve never once grabbed a song from Napster or Limewire years ago?
  • Reply 44 of 91
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ascii View Post




    I don't believe in "natural predisposition." 



    Humans are predisposed to greed, territory, ego and mating. Humans are also social predators.

  • Reply 45 of 91
    gbdocgbdoc Posts: 82member


    X, here you go again. “The OP said”, “bigots around here are saying”, “you said” - always tediously nitpicking around the same - often willfully misinterpreted - idea. Ah, X, you’re doing a yeoman’s job of living up to Churchill’s description of a fanatic (as quoted by an earlier poster) as "one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". Move on, my boy, move on. Indeed, I wonder whether your day job is being a big Occupational Therapist for bigots? For then, you too might be termed a BigOT.

  • Reply 46 of 91
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,740member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ascii View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GTR View Post


    Sex: Metrosexual (I also live in a city)



    Heterosexuals are attracted to women and Homosexuals are attracted to men and Metrosexuals are attracted to... cities? :)



     


    Salons.  image

  • Reply 47 of 91
    ipenipen Posts: 410member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Plagen View Post




     

    And all Brits can't read? Where did I say "all".?



    And yes, obesity in the US is a common and well recognized problem and nobody is ashamed of discussing it and looking for a solution.


     


    There is no solution. Looking at the stats, it's just getting worse every year. htp:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States


    Blame the junk food industry and the sedentary lifestyle.  A good portion of Medicare money goes to obesity related problems.

  • Reply 48 of 91
    mikeb85mikeb85 Posts: 506member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ipen View Post


     


    There is no solution. Looking at the stats, it's just getting worse every year. htp:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States


    Blame the junk food industry and the sedentary lifestyle.  A good portion of Medicare money goes to obesity related problems.



     


    There is a solution - tell people to eat less shitty food, and drink less sugary beverages.  And while they're at it, teach them what a raw vegetable looks like, how to cook it, and why it's better than a battered, fried, frozen piece of shit that fat people seemingly love to eat.  


     


    You can't blame industry, they respond to demand.  Blame people who are too stupid to take proper care of themselves...

  • Reply 49 of 91

    I always think it is funny to see these debates.


     


    Rarely does anybody acknowledge that most western ethics are based on Judeo-Christian values.  Religious or not now, that is where our laws and values originate from.  Like it or not.


     


    Why is anybody shocked that cultures not based on Judeo-Christian ethics.....have different ethics?  Asia certainly fits here.


     


    I don't see anything wrong or offensive about acknowledging that different cultures....are different cultures.  The part that causes friction is when one culture judges another by their own standard.


     


    It is just as silly to defend another culture as to attack it.....using a foreign set of ethics.


     


    Clearly piracy is a big issue in China, and at a higher level than end consumers wanting stuff and not paying for it.  


     


    I recall a news expose about a huge Levi Strauss factory in China.  It was massive, turning out massive amount of products that were exactly the same quality to the untrained eye as the US made products.


     


    But Levi owned no factories in China at the time.  All of the employees on the floor there thought they worked for Levi.  Their paychecks said Levi.  The uniforms said Levi.  All of the signage on the facility said Levi.  Looked 100% legit.  That is a different level of piracy.  


     


    In the same report, journalists could buy Windows 98 on the street for $1.  This was not a home made dupe.  It looked exactly like a legit copy, with exactly the same packaging, security hologram, everything.  It was obviously high level industrial piracy.  Did you ever notice that Microsoft Software is made in Mexico?  Just my opinion, but I suspect they feel they have more control there than China or other parts of the world, where it could be catastrophic for them if their own factories became the source of massive piracy.


     


    The fact that these blatant, industrial scale piracy efforts existed even then (this was perhaps 15 years ago), proves this is not a new or unique issue.  Facts are facts.  Don't delude yourself just to be politically correct.  This is a real issue.

  • Reply 50 of 91
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    2) If these values come from ideas then where did they start? Either with man or you have to say a deity. If with man then you can't deny that man can change how they perceive right and wrong. If you are American would you say you are for slavery? Why not since the nation has a long history of it? Aren't your values part of the idea that culture was founded upon or do you simply alter your values as the culture shifts its values? Does that mean 20 years ago you thought homosexuality was a crime against humanity? Does that mean 40 years ago you thought interracial unions were a crime against humanity? If it's just a collective idea then how does it change? How can two people whom live in the same culture have very different ideas?


    Those are all very interesting questions: where values come from and how they evolve. But it's getting a bit OT, I merely wanted to make the point that you can think skin colour is irrelevant and racism is stupid (as I do) and still acknowledge that values vary from place to place.


     


    And no, I never took a single song from Napster or Limewire. I hardly ever listen to music, my iTunes Library has *one* album loaded in it at the moment, a old Mozart album from the 90s.

  • Reply 51 of 91
    wapoowapoo Posts: 4member
    To abideworldwide
    Haha just stop blaming the Asian or even china or Korea. You may not know many tourists including people from so called more civilised or more educated countries (US etc), these people are always looking for privacy or counterfeit goods when they visiting China. So if you say the people from Asia have no conscience about stealing someone else's property, so do the Westerners. But why always blaming Asian or even China? It's just the people in Asia have that intelligent to make these stuffs. Rationally speaking, Everyone love free stuffs, but just the people don't know where to get it from. And I guess many of you guys who using iPhone that has jail broken and probably installed a lot of pirate apps and I don't think that is just only the Asians. And don't forget the guy who invented jailbreak is not an Asian! And samsung, yea may be they are copying from Apple, but so what?! they are making a lot of profit right now, who gives a monkey, really, that is the business world. If apple does not take a step forward, apple gonna lose this battle. Besides, before u saying samsung it's copying, pls look at the latest flagship phone S4, this is called innovation. :p

    And something outside the topic:
    U know US or even the global economy would have totally collapsed already in the financial crisis in 2008 without the help of China. You would have lost ur job already and not able to buy a new iPhone. Haha.
    Im not saying china is a hero or whatsoever. Yes, China is still kind of corrupted, but every country has their own problems, isn't it?

    So Please give some respect.

    Ps: I'm a Chinese. Insult me pls :p
  • Reply 52 of 91
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by wapoo View Post

    Haha just stop blaming the Asian or even china or Korea.


     


    Piracy of content and theft of intellectual property has a higher percentage of occurrence in these countries. We say not that it is a "racial" trait but rather a present cultural difference. There's no denying that. 






    …many tourists… …are always looking for privacy or counterfeit goods when they visiting China.



     


    This isn't a rebuttal to the argument. It doesn't excuse the piracy being undertaken.






    It's just the people in Asia have that intelligent to make these stuffs.



     


    Were they intelligent, they'd create their own rather than having to steal others'. Food for thought.






    And I guess many of you guys who using iPhone that has jail broken and probably installed a lot of pirate apps…



     


    Jailbreaking does not imply piracy, and I'm told that piracy also does not even imply jailbreaking, depending on how it's done (but maybe those were shut down…)






    And don't forget the guy who invented jailbreak is not an Asian!



     


    Jailbreaking also is NOT piracy in and of itself. I'm not sure why you think that.






    And samsung, yea may be they are copying from Apple, but so what?!



     


    See, this is the ENTIRE ARGUMENT. "So what" is not a valid rebuttal. It makes you look outrageously foolish.






    …they are making a lot of profit right now, who gives a monkey, really…



     


    THAT they are profiting from their crimes is the PRIMARY POINT of the argument. How do you not comprehend this?






    …that is the business world.



     


    Perhaps in China.


     


    The wink emoji is implied, but the statement remains wholly serious.






    If apple does not take a step forward, apple gonna lose this battle.



     


    Standard troll nonsense. "Apple is losing" without EVER defining how this is occurring.






    …S4, this is called innovation.



     


    12:26 A.M. EST (Yeah, I know it's EDT. Screw DST.), Saturday, April 20. This is the dumbest statement that will be made today.


     


    Also, you've given me the best laugh I'll probably have this next week.






    U know US or even the global economy would have totally collapsed already in the financial crisis in 2008 without the help of China.



     


    I'll ask that none of our PO regulars tear this apart and derail the thread, but I'll step in to say that you ALMOST topped your very last sentence with this one. It's just. plain. asinine. You could not be further from the truth here in any respect.






    Ps: I'm a Chinese.



     


    I don't know what you're being force-fed over there, but it's not indicative of reality.

  • Reply 53 of 91
    wapoowapoo Posts: 4member
    Piracy of content and theft of intellectual property has a higher percentage of occurrence in these countries. We say not that it is a "racial" trait but rather a present cultural difference. There's no denying that. 

    This isn't a rebuttal to the argument. It doesn't excuse the piracy being undertaken.

    Were they intelligent, they'd create their own rather than having to steal others'. Food for thought.

    Jailbreaking does not imply piracy, and I'm told that piracy also does not even imply jailbreaking, depending on how it's done (but maybe those were shut down…)

    Jailbreaking also is NOT piracy in and of itself. I'm not sure why you think that.

    See, this is the ENTIRE ARGUMENT. "So what" is not a valid rebuttal. It makes you look outrageously foolish.

    THAT they are profiting from their crimes is the PRIMARY POINT of the argument. How do you not comprehend this?

    Perhaps in China.

    The wink emoji is implied, but the statement remains wholly serious.

    Standard troll nonsense. "Apple is losing" without EVER defining how this is occurring.

    12:26 A.M. EST (Yeah, I know it's EDT. Screw DST.), Saturday, April 20. This is the dumbest statement that will be made today.

    Also, you've given me the best laugh I'll probably have this next week.

    I'll ask that none of our PO regulars tear this apart and derail the thread, but I'll step in to say that you ALMOST topped your very last sentence with this one. It's just. plain. asinine. You could not be further from the truth here in any respect.

    I don't know what you're being force-fed over there, but it's not indicative of reality.

    Based on ur reply, can I say there is a higher percentage of occurrence that US people has no respect to the Chinese? Theres no denying that. LOL it's ok, not ur fault, it's the public media. Its the media always love to exaggerate the bad side or the corrupted side of their competitors (samsung)or countries(Korea or china), and praising their own country or enterprise. That's politics and all countries do the same anyway.
    I'm not trying to start a fight here so I am not gonna reply u word by word. I just want to let u know the primary point is not what i wrote in the first part of my response; its just a very naive fight back (sorrie :p) to all the ignorants who always against every single thing of Asia. I am not denying what u said and in fact u r right in some points. However every single company or country has their own mistakes; Samsung is not the best company, so does Apple; and who knows if apple had copied any ideas of other company or not. Windows copied Apple 20 years ago. Both are US companies, so is it fair to make a judgement saying the majority Americans are thieves? I don't think you would be happy when people has stereotyped Americans are Bossy , FAT and no respect, right?
    As I said in my second part of the response ( I don't think u have quoted it): Pls RESPECT for other people when you writing anything on the Internet.
    And I really encourage u to read around and explore the world, also try to appreciate and respect other people of different cultures (not just the dark side of them) And if my stupidity and foolishness has given you the greatest laugh of the day, it's my pleasure :p <- wink implied, but still serious

    And I apologise if my Chinglish has misleaded u the PRIMARY POINT of my argument from my previous post.

    Oh one more thing regarding to my financial crisis statement. Im sorry, but its too difficult to explain the global economic situation right here, besides that would be out of topic and i probably get banned from this forum and get deleted. but I could refer you to get a copy of the economist and study what is actually going on in this economy right now.

    Peace
  • Reply 54 of 91
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by wapoo View Post

    I don't think you would be happy when people has stereotyped Americans are Bossy , FAT and no respect, right?


     


    As the majority of us ARE overweight, you can say that. It's not a stereotype at that point; it's fact. And as the majority of East Asian companies (well, and people, given the endemic nature of piracy) take their ideas from others, it's not a stereotype, either.


     


    Bossy I've not heard about us. If anyone's bossy, it's members of the Eurozone. image






    And I really encourage u to read around and explore the world, also try to appreciate and respect other people of different cultures…



     


    This couldn't be truer. Absolutely. And regardless of how we find the information that is presented, I can speak for all of us when I say that we welcome the input and viewpoints of people worldwide.

  • Reply 55 of 91
    wapoowapoo Posts: 4member
    First, MAJORITY east asian companies, where is this fact come from? Have u ever conducted a cross sectional study regarding to this matter, if u hv, is it statistically significant?'

    Second, bossy, You not heard about it , that's why I ask u to do a little bit of reading, besides, that's not the primary point again.

    Finally, Of what u said above has totally reflected ur attitude to people.
  • Reply 56 of 91
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by wapoo View Post

    Finally, Of what u said above has totally reflected ur attitude to people.


     


    What, preferring reason and fact over lies? Because I see a lot of lies in your posts, is all.

  • Reply 57 of 91
    wapoowapoo Posts: 4member
    It's a waste of time to argue with an ignorant. But is okay don't blame urself. :)
    Hey, if u feel offended use ur moderator power to kick me, I don't mind LOL. I still have a great life out there anyway.
    Nice to meet u American, also wish u a good life out there.
  • Reply 58 of 91
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Bossy I've not heard about us. If anyone's bossy, it's members of the Eurozone. image



    Hey hey there, don't drag us into your argument with the Chinese ^^

  • Reply 59 of 91
    ngrlvrngrlvr Posts: 24member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by abideworldwide View Post


    It seems like people in Asia have no conscience about stealing someone else's property.



    Having a grant of monopoly privilege does not make non-scarce information your "property". Grow up and stop depending on government force.

  • Reply 60 of 91
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by ngrlvr View Post

    Having a grant of monopoly privilege does not make non-scarce information your "property". Grow up and stop depending on government force.


     


    So no one should have the right to protect anything they create? They don't own their creations?

Sign In or Register to comment.