LG Display's profits grow, but reports cite 'weakened' demand for Apple's iPhone & iPad

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 88
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    igriv wrote: »
    You obviously haven't read what I said before: the stock is up because the bad news is baked into the price, or so people think, so they think that the only surprise could be to the upside (but it is not up a lot, so people are obviously quite wary).
    But the bad news wasn't baked into the price last week when there was a big sell off? Seems to me bad news was baked into the price a long time ago.
  • Reply 62 of 88
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    This is poor reasoning.  In the short run the stock market resembles an overly emotional adolescent, not some genius, efficient price-calculating machine.  The same adolescent pushed the price to $700 then down to $400.  Apple and its management are rational and patient; the market is emotional and knee-jerk.

    Thank you. To suggest that Apple is not being managed intelligently in the face of the propaganda campaign against it is scurrilous. Or insane

    The loss of Apple's value on the market is all psychological. Not partly—all. Some of the market's nervousness is self-induced, some of it is managed uncertainty. If the market were rational, it would be patiently waiting for Apple's growth into China, some new great stuff, all the steady refinements, in short all the REASONS that Apple has figured out how to appeal to a whole lot of people. But the adolescence you speak of prevails. It gathers more hits. We're in the junior-high years of the Internet.
  • Reply 63 of 88
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    rogifan wrote: »
    On the front page of Yahoo finance is a headline blaring: Bracing For Disaster; How Low Will Apple's earning be. The hyperbole has now reached ridiculous levels. And it seems not an hour of the day goes by without someone pushing out negativity. Honestly is there anything Apple has done to warrant all this negativity, and downright hate in some quarters?

    Unbelievable. To your last question, my suggestion is that they took on Samsung, who is now striking back behind the scenes.

    Geek hatred against Apple gladly joins in the campaign, because they hate good taste and competent technology.

    Edit: Warning, it's by Blodget! Since when does he tramp for Yahoo? Where's Gruber during this circus?
  • Reply 64 of 88
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    So what exactly was Cook when the market was running the stock up to $700? What has Cook done differently now than he did last spring/summer?


    He had momentum as his back.  Momentum from when someone else was calling the shots.  I don't think he has done anything different, but has lost all momentum that was put in place by someone else.  As we are now seeing it is 'all on him' and the market has little confidence in that situation.

  • Reply 65 of 88
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    Well, I answered my own question about Gruber. He links to a great piece from Phillip Elmer-DeWitt:

    Here's your answer too, [B]jdnc123[/B]. Might as well throw in [B]igriv[/B] also:

    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/22/apple-cook-whisper-campaign/

    Don't miss the comments, at least as far down till you get to [B]sacto joe[/B]'s.

    Edit: Let me emphasize to AI comment readers:[B]Don't take in jdnc123's poison without Elmer-DeWitt's antidote![/B]
  • Reply 66 of 88
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    For all the doom and gloom the analysts and trolls shove onto Apple the fact that hardly any other company gets mentioned when these vendors have dozens if not hundreds of customers is proof that Apple still holds all the cards when it comes to mindshare.


     


    Indeed. But those (mind)shares are cheaper than 6 months ago.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by igriv View Post


     


    The story mentions the fact that Apple is responsible for 30% of LG's display business, so I don't think this is about mindshare. It seems clear that Apple will not have a great quarter (all of the supply chain indications are negative), but on the bright side, this seems priced into the stock at this point.



    So, if Apple does report lower than previously predicted profits, $AAPL will not drop to $375 or lower. Come to think of it - now that it has dipped below $600, crashed through $500 and tumbled past $400, what is the next theoretical bottom?


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post





    . . . says the resident serial manipulator of our minds.



    Insert "attempted" in there somewhere.


    You mean ... "says the resident serial manipulator of our attempted minds"? image


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Everything I've seen points to the Retina IPS panels being LG's design but LG's manufacturing really does seem quite poor. I much prefer Samsung's manufacturing of these displays. Same goes for the SSD Cards using Samsung controllers over Toshiba. For all their ethical faults Samsung has repeatedly shown to have the best foundries.


     


    Agree wholeheartedly. But I don't think it's just about foundries. Regardless, the biggest threat Samsung poses when it comes to supplying parts is DRAM. Apple can find alternative suppliers for microprocessors and displays (even if there has been a struggle to maintain the same quality). But finding alternative sources for memory chips will be a greater challenge.

  • Reply 67 of 88
    bleh1234bleh1234 Posts: 146member
    Gotta love TS with the magic post deleter. Gone in 5 4. 3. 2.
  • Reply 68 of 88
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    He had momentum as his back.  Momentum from when someone else was calling the shots.  I don't think he has done anything different, but has lost all momentum that was put in place by someone else.  As we are now seeing it is 'all on him' and the market has little confidence in that situation.



    How exactly has he lost momentum? Sales, revenues and profits have kept rising. If analysts are right, then tomorrow will mark the first time in almost 10 years that Apple dips in profits compared to the same quarter in the previous year. If analysts are wrong, then Cook has kept up the momentum yet again. Yes, there have been miscues. But those emerge now and then too when Jobs was ostensibly at the top of his game.


     


    Analysts are allegedly focusing on the second derivative - the rate of growth has been decreasing. But this criticism is not applied uniformly to the rest of the industry. As a result, the P/E is out of whack whether you are looking at the present, past or future earnings. Rather fascinating phenomenon if I haven't lost millions over this.


     


    p.s. Just kidding.

  • Reply 69 of 88
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post



    Well, I answered my own question about Gruber. He links to a great piece from Phillip Elmer-DeWitt:



    Here's your answer too, jdnc123. Might as well throw in igriv also:



    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/22/apple-cook-whisper-campaign/



    Don't miss the comments, at least as far down till you get to sacto joe's.



    Edit: Let me emphasize to AI comment readers:Don't take in jdnc123's poison without Elmer-DeWitt's antidote!


     


    Listen, the reality is nobody can invest on hope and perception.  Apple's products are great.  I have many of them.  I see them everywhere I travel.  My kids and all their friends are being ingrained at an early age via the iPod touch (all the rage for the 7-12 range), which no other manufacturer competes with really.  This is not about the past, its about the present.  My issue with Cook is the lack of communication, lack of articulated strategy and what I believe to be his and upper mgmt's whiff on the impact competition would have on their products including the larger form factors.  I think some of this was due to arrogance.  The market is saying Apple is no better than any other company.  I would like management to stop acting as if they and the company are still infallible.  The dreadful last 7 months have pounded home to anyone that is listening that isn't the case.

  • Reply 70 of 88

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


     


     The market is saying Apple is no better than any other company.  I would like management to stop acting as if they and the company are still infallible.  The dreadful last 7 months have pounded home to anyone that is listening that isn't the case.



     


    They don't act like they're infallible and nobody's saying they are.  That's a false accusation you people make.  They're not infallible, they're just 10x better than the competition!

  • Reply 71 of 88
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


     


    Listen, the reality is nobody can invest on hope and perception.  Apple's products are great.  I have many of them.  I see them everywhere I travel.  My kids and all their friends are being ingrained at an early age via the iPod touch (all the rage for the 7-12 range), which no other manufacturer competes with really.  This is not about the past, its about the present.  My issue with Cook is the lack of communication, lack of articulated strategy and what I believe to be his and upper mgmt's whiff on the impact competition would have on their products including the larger form factors.  I think some of this was due to arrogance.  The market is saying Apple is no better than any other company.  I would like management to stop acting as if they and the company are still infallible.  The dreadful last 7 months have pounded home to anyone that is listening that isn't the case.



    Cook communicates more than Jobs ever did (e.g. "holding it wrong").


     


    Cook articulates the same strategy than Jobs did - Apple will keep making great products.


     


    As for the impact competition has had - how many more iPhones would Apple have sold if there were no large Androids? So many more than $AAPL would have stayed at $700?


     


    As for arrogance, has there ever been a CEO as arrogant as Jobs?


     


    Apple's present is this - they keep selling more and more products, and keep making more and more money. More than they ever did when Jobs was in charge. 


     


    As for acting like they are infallible, Cook has issued at least 3 public apologies in the last year. How many did Jobs issue in his entire career? 


     


    Imagine every number pertaining to Apple was 10% what it is - units sold, revenues, profits, growth rate, market cap, etc. I betcha $AAPL would have at least held steady or perhaps it would have kept growing. As it is, the market doesn't know what to do with the company that is worth more than any other, and is making money faster than most others. There is this sense of - surely all good things must come to a stop; and it is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  • Reply 72 of 88
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


     


    Indeed. But those (mind)shares are cheaper than 6 months ago.


    So, if Apple does report lower than previously predicted profits, $AAPL will not drop to $375 or lower. Come to think of it - now that it has dipped below $600, crashed through $500 and tumbled past $400, what is the next theoretical bottom?


    You mean ... "says the resident serial manipulator of our attempted minds"? image


     


    Agree wholeheartedly. But I don't think it's just about foundries. Regardless, the biggest threat Samsung poses when it comes to supplying parts is DRAM. Apple can find alternative suppliers for microprocessors and displays (even if there has been a struggle to maintain the same quality). But finding alternative sources for memory chips will be a greater challenge.



     


    To answer your question, unless Apple's quarter is disastrous (as in 10% below estimates), or unless the guidance is really terrible,I don't see the stock going below $375. You can laugh at me on Wednesday :( The first possibility (a very bad quarter) does not strike me as very likely (because the expectations are quite low). The second (bad guidance) is, unfortunately, possible, since Apple has nothing (that we know of)  in the pipeline for Q2. The next natural announcement point is WWDC, but that means that whatever it is won't ship until Q3 at the latest. Reading ancient tea leaves, if they announce a new Mac Pro line, that probably WILL ship in the summer, but that's peanuts, revenue-wise. Probably there will be a refresh to the MacBooks, too (again, that's usually when these things are done), but I doubt that any phone/tablet will ship before Sep, which means TWO weak quarters. But, who can say...

  • Reply 73 of 88
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by igriv View Post


     


    To answer your question, unless Apple's quarter is disastrous (as in 10% below estimates), or unless the guidance is really terrible,I don't see the stock going below $375. You can laugh at me on Wednesday :( The first possibility (a very bad quarter) does not strike me as very likely (because the expectations are quite low). The second (bad guidance) is, unfortunately, possible, since Apple has nothing (that we know of)  in the pipeline for Q2. The next natural announcement point is WWDC, but that means that whatever it is won't ship until Q3 at the latest. Reading ancient tea leaves, if they announce a new Mac Pro line, that probably WILL ship in the summer, but that's peanuts, revenue-wise. Probably there will be a refresh to the MacBooks, too (again, that's usually when these things are done), but I doubt that any phone/tablet will ship before Sep, which means TWO weak quarters. But, who can say...



    You're stating all the (good) reasons why various analysts adjusted their estimates for the June quarter in the last few days. Perhaps there is one mistake Apple has made - For the first time in 4 years, there has been no product announcement/launch in the first calendar quarter (iPad announcement in 2010, 11, and 12; iOS 3 in 2009). But then again, it might not be a mistake in "scheduling". It could be one of two things - 1. They are indeed having problems readying production of the next iteration of iWhatever (iPhone 5S, iPad Mini 2, iPad 5). 2. They are preparing something big (iWatch?). Either way, I think this is the longest Apple lull in quite some time? 

  • Reply 74 of 88
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,991member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by igriv View Post


     


    A south korean company only cares about its own share price (unlike Apple, which, apparently does not). The question of why Apple SHOULD care has been beaten to death on other AI forums, so if you don't have a clue yet, you probably never will.


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

     



     


    Which is why the SEC should look into unethical behaviour by paid shills and the people paying them.


     


    The share price has barely anything whatsoever to do with what Apple does, so why should the company care?

  • Reply 75 of 88
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,991member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    I should have said I don't think the VZ data is positive - in my opinion - due to the large numbers of older models sold, which will pressure ASPs and could lead to a revenue miss.  Further is indicates slowing growth (which is the concern) despite the absolute growth.  To each is own, some have view the VZ data point as positive, some as negative.


     


    I didn't see Kass or Enderle write anything this weekend.  Stories were on Forbes, Seeking Alpha and The Street, neither of which I consider quality publications so didn't link, but there is indeed increased chatter about whether Tim Cook should be shown the door.


     


    From Barrons:


     


    "Speaking of Apple, a piece by contributor Gene Marcial of Forbes.com is getting some attention this morning. Marcial writes that some “sources close to some APple executives” say there is “a move afoot” to replace CEO Tim Cook. CNBC jumped on that bit of speculation this morning, asking BGC’s Gillis “how much time does he have left,” to which Gillis replied, “I think till the end of the year."



     


    More paid placement pieces from spivs based on bullshit.

  • Reply 76 of 88
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,991member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    >>Cook does not really have a responsibility to the stock price. His responsibility is to ensuring the company spends money wisely and makes a profit. If the investors are stupid enough to sell off stock at a discount because of blatant media manipulation, they are getting what they deserve.>>


     


    The biggest (i..e #1 and #2) holders of Apple stock were selling last week.  You don't honestly think they care what the media says do you?  Cook does have a responsibility to create maximum shareholder value.  That is the #1 goal of any public company CEO.


     


    >>Cook's future depends on continuing to grow Apple's profit.>>


     


    Current estimates are for Apple's profits to shrink this fiscal year.


     


    >> If you are not a professional, you should not make short term securities investments (I will call short term anything you plan holding less then 10 years).>>


     


    Now that is funny.



    "Apple rose 2.5 percent to $400.19 at 3:04 p.m. in New York, the biggest intraday gain in five weeks."


     


    Bloomberg.

  • Reply 77 of 88
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by igriv View Post


    Well, two year plans are in effect vendor financing for expensive devices, and I am amused to see that T-mobile has actually came out with a straight-up financing plan. I am curious how this will fly...



     


    In Canada the smaller carriers are trying something along those lines and it seems to be well received. They offer a "tab" that one pays back at $X/month until the device is paid off. Cheap devices require no initial payment, the full price is amortized over the tab period. More expensive devices require a lump payment up front in addition to the tab payments.


     


    It's not really much different than the subsidy model except that ones' bill is reduced once the device is paid off and it's more transparent to the customer.

  • Reply 78 of 88
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,991member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Well, idiots will buy anything, after all. How else do you think Apple is able to price its crap hardware so high?¡



     


    You could have fitted an "overpriced" in there somewhere.

  • Reply 79 of 88
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    "Apple rose 2.5 percent to $400.19 at 3:04 p.m. in New York, the biggest intraday gain in five weeks."


     


    Bloomberg.



    What exactly is your point? Are you surprised? Would you rather the stock keep nosediving (after all, Apple doesn't care, and it would really screw those evil investing types)?

  • Reply 80 of 88
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,991member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


     


    Listen, the reality is nobody can invest on hope and perception.



     


    Explain Amazon.

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