You are on drugs right now right? I mean, I just want to confirm your "tree" theory of inspiration is the product of some chemical reaction and not an actual drug free thought.
That being said what the heck does one have to do with the other? The trees are a one time cost and the other is a repeatable expense. Further, one has to do with an individual customer the other some crazy idea that trees will someone inspire the next revolutionary device. You realize how crazy you sound right? Anyhow, your analogy is way off base. But now that you mention it, it is insane paying 60K per tree, when they could probably pay $250 for young trees to be planted. How about a mix at least?
Anyhow, enjoy your bud if you think people are getting inspired by "mature" trees rather than young growing ones. If anything the young ones would be symbolic of growth and change, the old, mature trees symbolic of..well maturity and stagnation.
Originally Posted by Ireland
I rest my case. My analogy must have been pretty good when you think the exact same way as the guy who provided it. And your not seeing nature and mature trees as having great inspirational potential proves you just don't get it.
Please tell me you are donating your organs to science. I bet they could learn a lot about what drugs do to the human brain.
Your posts have transitioned from the anecdotal to FUD to the idiotic.
What? I'm sorry my comments upset you, but I think you're overreacting. Anecdotal to be sure, and I said so myself. However, asking legitimate questions and being prepared to accept reasonable explanations is not FUD. As for being idiotic, I can only conclude that I have again done a poor job of conveying what I meant. I humbly request that you re-read my last post as if it was written by someone other than me. I just suggested a reason to wonder if overall failure rates are actually higher than what some people here believe. I think it was a pretty reasonable point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
How many Apple devices are sold? How many Genius Bars are there? How many people are there for hardware (AppleCare) reasons? How many in line? What is the latter as a proportion of the total number of devices sold? (How many other manufacturers have things such as Genius Bars, anyway?). How does this proportion compare to Apple's competitors?
I answered the first part of that: about half-a-million per Genius Bar. That's a pretty small population per Genius.
At the two Apple Stores I've attended for service issues, matters not related to faults are handled in the seating area or the One-to-One section. The Genius Bar handles only hardware/software problems.
Long waits mean either Apple sells a lot more product in this metro region than other places with similar Genius-to-owner ratios, or Apple equipment actually fails more often than the "lucky" people who haven't had a problem believe.
As for how that compares to the competition, very favorably, but that's irrelevant at this point in the discussion as we're now talking about how often problems actually occur, not how Apple handles them. Like I said, I'm happy with the service Apple provides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
You must get out of bed every day thinking that you are the center of the universe and that your personal experiences must generalize to hundreds of millions of your fellow men. As I said, that borders on the idiotic.
No, I've said throughout this discussion that my experience is NOT consistent with what others here report. I don't doubt for a second that most people enjoy a problem-free Apple experience. I would humbly submit that the imprinting of personal experience on the rest of the population is coming from those who, because they haven't had any problems themselves, suggest that anyone who has must be a propagandist.
All I did was raise a valid question: Does a really busy Genius Bar suggest higher-than-generally-thought failure rates in the context of a small pool of customers? I'm genuinely sorry that I've phrased my posts in a way that got under your skin. I wasn't trying to be that guy who kicks the back of your seat on the plane.
I don't know who started this drug comments but they 1) don't help carry a conversation, and 2) are personal attacks.
He started it. I'm not even saying anything about him to do with drugs. I was being ironic saying the fact that I get inspired by nature must mean I am on drugs. That seems to be his logic for some reason.
I originally suggested his comment that Apple should fire the guy who had the old policy is place (as this new policy will saved them $1B) was reminiscent of the comment someone else recently made that Apple shouldn't waste money transplanting mature trees on the grounds of Apple Campus 2, but should instead transplant young trees for the savings they'd provide. The comparison was used specifically to point out that sometimes looking purely at the numbers misses the point completely. And Apple ususly doesn't do this in ways other companies do. Another company would transplant young trees to save money.
This for some reason got him totally excited and defensive, to the point that he first suggest I am on drugs right now, to a subsequent comment telling me to enjoy the bud, to now his talking of donating my brain to science. No doubt he thinks he's making sense.
I don't wanna be an Apple-basher, but this is a particularly sore spot for me. At the Apple refurb department, "inspect" and "QA" seem to mean "make sure it's not on fire before putting it in a box and reselling it." We've received stuff from the refurb store that was SO f'd up that there is no way in hell it could possibly have been powered up before reselling it. Even a blind, deaf imbecile could tell the device was NOT working.
Are you sure? It seems like it would be a lot quicker, easier and cheaper to replace whatever part is reported faulty then pack it up for the next guy.
It also eliminates the "Fixed this but now THAT is broken" nature of replacing with refurbs.
I dropped my iPhone 4 and smashed the screen so I paid the just-under-two-hundred-bucks-after-tax for a replacement. I've got 7 weeks on the new one and one of the volume control buttons is failing. So, the exchange fixed one problem but introduced a new one. They've offered to replace it again, but they don't have any right now. I have to go back a third time when they do.
Now I'm worried that replacing it with another refurb will just introduce ANOTHER problem I didn't have before. At least with a repair, the only change is the faulty bit.
I hear you about worrying about replacement phones that may or may not have other issues. It could be just a coincidence that you had to replace the phone twice. I had that issue with the original iPhone and I have heard of people having to replace two iPhones at the time of purchase because one had a dead battery and the other had a defect in the display. It can happen. It may not be ideal as an Apple customer, but it's way better than getting a refurbished phone from another manufacturer. Apple is pretty good about documenting things, so if you end up swapping it again, speak to the manager and let them know what's going on. Let them know, you have little faith in your replacement phone. If they are no help, call Applecare and ask to speak with customer relations.
So much fucking FUD per post. You might as well say the big Bengazi scandal is about 5 to 8 million failed iPhones.
Can you name these "better factories" that check at least 75 million boards per quarter per customer, as well as every other component done to their blemishes?
And while you're at it why don't you give us actual figures as to what percentage of Apple's products do have issues?
That story is all over The Onion, so you know it's true!
On the flip side however, a part of the reason my experience is so bad, is Apple is far too lenient on most users in terms of AppleCare and repairs. I know people who have got two or three phone replacements for issues that were of their own making. IMO instead of trying to make every cheapskate loser in the world happy and screwing over the customers they have that actually pay for their products, they should be nicer to folks like me and a little less nice to those abusing the current system.
Coworker once knocked his iPod to the floor (old hard drive model) and it naturally quit working. He took it to the store and said "I just stopped working." and they gave him a new one. And this was a guy who was a lifetime Apple user and evangelist. Completely lowered my opinion of him a couple of notches.
APPLE RAPE US FOR ONE BILLION DOLLARS,WE DON%u2019T AGREE%uFF01 Recently,Apple say will change their warranty ways,They say will not replace new machine for you,but repair it.And say this way will help Apple save one billion dollars every year. Woo!we raped by apple! If today we go to apple store to buy iphone,they tell us this new warranty policy before I buy,then it%u2019s ok,I can choose accept or not.But For the customers that have bought the items but still have the warranty,now you say the warranty ways changed after we bought,we can%u2019t accept!Becasue at that time when we choose your items,your workers introduced the warranty ways,Ok,we think good warranty,we can replace new if there are any quality problems happen.Then we trust you and choose your items.But now you say warranty ways changed without any request for your customers before announce your changes,you rape us to get one billion dollars,No!we don%u2019t accept!It%u2019s our customer%u2019s one billion dollars,it like the tax we have paid when we buy the items,it should been cost on our warranty ,not other things or into you apple company%u2019s pocket or any other things ,because it is our agreement before. Of couse If Apple say I want to help others with this money,Ok ,we agree that help others is great but you can use your own money not rob from your customers,at least now your profits is still very very high,If customers want to help others,we%u2019ll help,but it is not connected with Apple,and we%u2019ll use our money of course,not rob from others.Then this help will be great! If apple really want to do the after sales job better not for the money,there are better policy like below: 1,For the iphone,ipod and ipad still in warranty,keep replace new if have quality problems. 2,For the items warranty expired,provide the repair service,of course ,charge the reasonable repair fee and the materials fee. If apple go on this after sales job like up,thank you!it is really respect and care to your customers. we can%u2019t stop apple go on new after sales policy on not saled items,but you must complete the promise on the items have sold before , how to say before then how to do today,no change no fool,we will not accept your rape!
We don't know what's the matter with apple company now?Just for the stock price get down these days.so very need the one billion dollars ,Woo,no Jobs,your these guys really can't do anything good?Sometimes I doubt if the guy give out the new after sales policy is come from the Competitors,let apple fall into the trap,one billion dollars is just the bait.
Comments
Quote:
You are on drugs right now right? I mean, I just want to confirm your "tree" theory of inspiration is the product of some chemical reaction and not an actual drug free thought.
That being said what the heck does one have to do with the other? The trees are a one time cost and the other is a repeatable expense. Further, one has to do with an individual customer the other some crazy idea that trees will someone inspire the next revolutionary device. You realize how crazy you sound right? Anyhow, your analogy is way off base. But now that you mention it, it is insane paying 60K per tree, when they could probably pay $250 for young trees to be planted. How about a mix at least?
Anyhow, enjoy your bud if you think people are getting inspired by "mature" trees rather than young growing ones. If anything the young ones would be symbolic of growth and change, the old, mature trees symbolic of..well maturity and stagnation.
Originally Posted by Ireland
I rest my case. My analogy must have been pretty good when you think the exact same way as the guy who provided it. And your not seeing nature and mature trees as having great inspirational potential proves you just don't get it.
Please tell me you are donating your organs to science. I bet they could learn a lot about what drugs do to the human brain.
I don't know who started these drug comments but they 1) don't help carry a conversation, and 2) are personal attacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Your posts have transitioned from the anecdotal to FUD to the idiotic.
What? I'm sorry my comments upset you, but I think you're overreacting. Anecdotal to be sure, and I said so myself. However, asking legitimate questions and being prepared to accept reasonable explanations is not FUD. As for being idiotic, I can only conclude that I have again done a poor job of conveying what I meant. I humbly request that you re-read my last post as if it was written by someone other than me. I just suggested a reason to wonder if overall failure rates are actually higher than what some people here believe. I think it was a pretty reasonable point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
How many Apple devices are sold? How many Genius Bars are there? How many people are there for hardware (AppleCare) reasons? How many in line? What is the latter as a proportion of the total number of devices sold? (How many other manufacturers have things such as Genius Bars, anyway?). How does this proportion compare to Apple's competitors?
I answered the first part of that: about half-a-million per Genius Bar. That's a pretty small population per Genius.
At the two Apple Stores I've attended for service issues, matters not related to faults are handled in the seating area or the One-to-One section. The Genius Bar handles only hardware/software problems.
Long waits mean either Apple sells a lot more product in this metro region than other places with similar Genius-to-owner ratios, or Apple equipment actually fails more often than the "lucky" people who haven't had a problem believe.
As for how that compares to the competition, very favorably, but that's irrelevant at this point in the discussion as we're now talking about how often problems actually occur, not how Apple handles them. Like I said, I'm happy with the service Apple provides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
You must get out of bed every day thinking that you are the center of the universe and that your personal experiences must generalize to hundreds of millions of your fellow men. As I said, that borders on the idiotic.
No, I've said throughout this discussion that my experience is NOT consistent with what others here report. I don't doubt for a second that most people enjoy a problem-free Apple experience. I would humbly submit that the imprinting of personal experience on the rest of the population is coming from those who, because they haven't had any problems themselves, suggest that anyone who has must be a propagandist.
All I did was raise a valid question: Does a really busy Genius Bar suggest higher-than-generally-thought failure rates in the context of a small pool of customers? I'm genuinely sorry that I've phrased my posts in a way that got under your skin. I wasn't trying to be that guy who kicks the back of your seat on the plane.
What's your problem?
He started it. I'm not even saying anything about him to do with drugs. I was being ironic saying the fact that I get inspired by nature must mean I am on drugs. That seems to be his logic for some reason.
I originally suggested his comment that Apple should fire the guy who had the old policy is place (as this new policy will saved them $1B) was reminiscent of the comment someone else recently made that Apple shouldn't waste money transplanting mature trees on the grounds of Apple Campus 2, but should instead transplant young trees for the savings they'd provide. The comparison was used specifically to point out that sometimes looking purely at the numbers misses the point completely. And Apple ususly doesn't do this in ways other companies do. Another company would transplant young trees to save money.
This for some reason got him totally excited and defensive, to the point that he first suggest I am on drugs right now, to a subsequent comment telling me to enjoy the bud, to now his talking of donating my brain to science. No doubt he thinks he's making sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
I don't wanna be an Apple-basher, but this is a particularly sore spot for me. At the Apple refurb department, "inspect" and "QA" seem to mean "make sure it's not on fire before putting it in a box and reselling it." We've received stuff from the refurb store that was SO f'd up that there is no way in hell it could possibly have been powered up before reselling it. Even a blind, deaf imbecile could tell the device was NOT working.
Are you sure? It seems like it would be a lot quicker, easier and cheaper to replace whatever part is reported faulty then pack it up for the next guy.
It also eliminates the "Fixed this but now THAT is broken" nature of replacing with refurbs.
I dropped my iPhone 4 and smashed the screen so I paid the just-under-two-hundred-bucks-after-tax for a replacement. I've got 7 weeks on the new one and one of the volume control buttons is failing. So, the exchange fixed one problem but introduced a new one. They've offered to replace it again, but they don't have any right now. I have to go back a third time when they do.
Now I'm worried that replacing it with another refurb will just introduce ANOTHER problem I didn't have before. At least with a repair, the only change is the faulty bit.
I hear you about worrying about replacement phones that may or may not have other issues. It could be just a coincidence that you had to replace the phone twice. I had that issue with the original iPhone and I have heard of people having to replace two iPhones at the time of purchase because one had a dead battery and the other had a defect in the display. It can happen. It may not be ideal as an Apple customer, but it's way better than getting a refurbished phone from another manufacturer. Apple is pretty good about documenting things, so if you end up swapping it again, speak to the manager and let them know what's going on. Let them know, you have little faith in your replacement phone. If they are no help, call Applecare and ask to speak with customer relations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So much fucking FUD per post.
Can you name these "better factories" that check at least 75 million boards per quarter per customer, as well as every other component done to their blemishes?
And while you're at it why don't you give us actual figures as to what percentage of Apple's products do have issues?
That story is all over The Onion, so you know it's true!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
On the flip side however, a part of the reason my experience is so bad, is Apple is far too lenient on most users in terms of AppleCare and repairs. I know people who have got two or three phone replacements for issues that were of their own making. IMO instead of trying to make every cheapskate loser in the world happy and screwing over the customers they have that actually pay for their products, they should be nicer to folks like me and a little less nice to those abusing the current system.
Coworker once knocked his iPod to the floor (old hard drive model) and it naturally quit working. He took it to the store and said "I just stopped working." and they gave him a new one. And this was a guy who was a lifetime Apple user and evangelist. Completely lowered my opinion of him a couple of notches.
Recently,Apple say will change their warranty ways,They say will not replace new machine for you,but repair it.And say this way will help Apple save one billion dollars every year.
Woo!we raped by apple! If today we go to apple store to buy iphone,they tell us this new warranty policy before I buy,then it%u2019s ok,I can choose accept or not.But For the customers that have bought the items but still have the warranty,now you say the warranty ways changed after we bought,we can%u2019t accept!Becasue at that time when we choose your items,your workers introduced the warranty ways,Ok,we think good warranty,we can replace new if there are any quality problems happen.Then we trust you and choose your items.But now you say warranty ways changed without any request for your customers before announce your changes,you rape us to get one billion dollars,No!we don%u2019t accept!It%u2019s our customer%u2019s one billion dollars,it like the tax we have paid when we buy the items,it should been cost on our warranty ,not other things or into you apple company%u2019s pocket or any other things ,because it is our agreement before.
Of couse If Apple say I want to help others with this money,Ok ,we agree that help others is great but you can use your own money not rob from your customers,at least now your profits is still very very high,If customers want to help others,we%u2019ll help,but it is not connected with Apple,and we%u2019ll use our money of course,not rob from others.Then this help will be great!
If apple really want to do the after sales job better not for the money,there are better policy like below:
1,For the iphone,ipod and ipad still in warranty,keep replace new if have quality problems.
2,For the items warranty expired,provide the repair service,of course ,charge the reasonable repair fee and the materials fee.
If apple go on this after sales job like up,thank you!it is really respect and care to your customers.
we can%u2019t stop apple go on new after sales policy on not saled items,but you must complete the promise on the items have sold before , how to say before then how to do today,no change no fool,we will not accept your rape!
We don't know what's the matter with apple company now?Just for the stock price get down these days.so very need the one billion dollars ,Woo,no Jobs,your these guys really can't do anything good?Sometimes I doubt if the guy give out the new after sales policy is come from the Competitors,let apple fall into the trap,one billion dollars is just the bait.