I think it's a safe assumption that Apple won't use i3 chips. They only support i5 and i7 chips for their laptops and desktops. I don't Apple is even interested in i3's they aren't that desperate for sales to compete at the i3 level. Most of the dirt cheap PC laptops are i3, and that's a market Apple doesn't want to play in because there is no room for decent profits. Personally, Intel should raise their standards for processors and not destroy mfg abilities to make a decent profit. These companies can't survive selling $400 laptops.
Like I said, lets wait and see how the Haswell Y series do in convertible tablets this year. 14nm chips will be even better.
There's a huge performance gap between Intel and ARM and Intel has closed the power gap faster than ARM has increased performance.
Intel has also fudged some numbers to make Atom look better than it is. With TSMC coming on strong with its own 14 nm process it isn't certain that Intel can grab the market share they would like.
They aren't doing everything to make Atom a success until this year when the actually get it on the current process as opposed to lagging.
AMD's primary disadvantage was the brain drain when they made a series of bad moves.
AMD is in an interesting position right now. It looks like they have the leadership in place to rationalize a product line up. It really becomes a question of time, that is can they go black before creditors come knocking.
You hugely overstate the importance of GPU with respect to the OS.
Not at all. Between video decode units, OpenCL and 3D acceleration GPUs are extremely important in delivering the sort of systems user expect these days. In fact without modern GPUs the OS couldn't deliver the services users expect these days.
Now we could argue about what is the OS. Core OS activities take place in the integer units of the CPU which is a limited view of an OS. These days though it is reasonable to think of things such as video encode/decode, 3D acceleration, compute support and other things as part of the OS.
There's a dual core 7W TDP haswell and a 15W TDP quad i7.
The Bay Trail appear to be very good contenders for Q4 of this year. Intel got the Galaxy 3 design win this year with the 32nm Z2560. A little slow but at 32nm it's about what would be expected.
The problem is Intel needs a lot of design wins and the industry doesn't want to play Intels game anymore. It isn't just Intels market manipulation that is a problem it is the fact that the industry has changed. Systems these days are not built on a printed circuit board like in the past, rather systems are designed on chips. What Woz use to do with Pals and a few TTL chips is now done with CAD system targeting the latest silicon process. Intel just doesn't seem to be really oriented to this reality, they want to sell a handful of generic chips to as many customers as possible.
Why? It's not as if you're going to run a MBP on ARM. Or even the MBA. On the other hand if the 14nm Core i3 can hit a 5W TDP down from 7W there's a lot of performance per watt there. And Apple doesn't sell their chips to anyone. Intel doesn't compete with them at all but Samsung, Qualcomm and nVidia.
That is not how I see it. Apple is a primary competitor for Intel. If you look at Apples sales, Intel is loosing 50 million sales a quarter. Not only that but to be able to compete with Apple, the likes of Samsung and other device manufactures have no choice but to do their own custom chips.
In any event Intel competes with Apple but not in the traditional way. It is all about lost sales and the impact Apple has on the market. Think about the next processes node which should double available transistors to Apple and will likely do so all the way to 14nm. At some point those transistors become valuable for different functionality rather than yet another core. It is hard to say how Apple will use those transistors but it is a certainty they won't use those transistors in the same way Intel will.
Lets see how good the haswell convertibles are. North Cape looked cool. I'd seriously love a MBA that did that.
I've really grown attached to my iPad, as such my need for a laptop simply isn't as strong as it once was. If I do buy another laptop it will be for performance something the MBA is not oriented towards. Of course with 14 nm chips, maybe a MBA would be in my future. As for iPad I'm not sure if this year will deliver a major enhancement to the "A" series chips. However Apple has a long ways to go performance wise, I just don't see a convertible replacing my iPad even if it has a Haswell based processor.
The Y series doesn't really interest me much as the H and U series in that order and even then I am only interested in the U processors that have the best graphics. I agree with wizard on Apple making a good decision to not go after i3 processors. I was even talking to a co-worker about recommending a computer for a his daughter for school and I said if you see "core i3" skip it. Minimum should be core i5 or core i7.
Like I said, lets wait and see how the Haswell Y series do in convertible tablets this year. 14nm chips will be even better.
Apple isn't going to make a convertible.
I wouldn't want OS X on a tablet. I would like more features of OS in iOS, but I don't want the full OS X experience on a tablet.
Personally, what I think is killing the PC industry is too many different chips with too subtle of a difference between them.
I also think it's poor taste on Intel's side that they don't even have pictures and specs on Apple desktops/laptops on their website. The seem to promote the PC industry, but not Macs and Apple has more Intel technology inside their computers than these PCs do, especially since Apple promotes Thunderbolt I/O.
I wouldn't want OS X on a tablet. I would like more features of OS in iOS, but I don't want the full OS X experience on a tablet.
This I agree with 100%. Apple needs to rethink restrictions that aren't security related.
Personally, what I think is killing the PC industry is too many different chips with too subtle of a difference between them.
Err no there are more valid reasons for the PC industries slippage. However I have to agree with one point Intel markets way to many trivial variants of the same processor. That plethora of models leads to other problems especially with respect to ones perception by the consumer.
I also think it's poor taste on Intel's side that they don't even have pictures and specs on Apple desktops/laptops on their website.
That is odd. Mac Book AIRs would be the perfect vehicle to highlight Haswell. Knowing Apple though I wouldn't be surprised to find that they object to such mentions. In the end it would be interesting to know the truth.
The seem to promote the PC industry, but not Macs and Apple has more Intel technology inside their computers than these PCs do, especially since Apple promotes Thunderbolt I/O.
Interesting isn't it. I have to wonder if Apple simply doesn't want to be associated with Intels Wintel efforts. This due to the fear of being linked to that industry.
I wouldn't want OS X on a tablet. I would like more features of OS in iOS, but I don't want the full OS X experience on a tablet.
Personally, what I think is killing the PC industry is too many different chips with too subtle of a difference between them.
I also think it's poor taste on Intel's side that they don't even have pictures and specs on Apple desktops/laptops on their website. The seem to promote the PC industry, but not Macs and Apple has more Intel technology inside their computers than these PCs do, especially since Apple promotes Thunderbolt I/O.
Well it's not a tablet when docked to the keyboard. It's 11" a MBA equivalent.
The iPad mini strikes me as the best form factor for consumption and at a lower cost. An iPad Pro with keyboard doc would be a killer business machine if it could run office.
Well it's not a tablet when docked to the keyboard. It's 11" a MBA equivalent.
The iPad mini strikes me as the best form factor for consumption and at a lower cost. An iPad Pro with keyboard doc would be a killer business machine if it could run office.
I think you're missing the point. First off, for Office, you can use iWork. It's pretty much the same thing for MOST people. Most people don't use much else other than what iWork does, especially for a tablet. IF someone is going to need more functionality of what Office does, then they would need a much more powerful computer, but most people don't do that.
I think a lot of people have this misconception that in order for a tablet to be used in a business manner that it has to run Office. iPads are used by business professionals that use them for a LOT more than typical Office apps. There are interior designer, architects, graphics professionals, music production, audio production, banking, etc., etc. where they use a professional grade tablet app that does something related to their BUSINESS that isn't a spreadsheet, wp, presentation software or email communications. So this, it has to run Office for it to be a business tablet, is a line of Microsoft marketing BS.
An iPad is NOT an equivalent to a MBA when docked to a keyboard. I personally, wouldn't use an iPad when a traditional laptop/desktop would be needed, and visa versa. To buy an iPad thinking it will totally take the place of a laptop? No, I don't think it really should be taken that way. there are always going to be some people that want to spend as little money as possible and do as much as possible and I just think Office type apps on a tablet is more for limited functionality than full functionality. That's why Windows 7 kinda sucks as a touchscreen tablet OS, which is essentially what Windows 8 is once you get past the start up screen.
A MBA can connect to Thunderbolt devices, has much more storage, better graphics, and runs OS X not iOS.
When Microsoft gets their Office app out for iOS, it won't be the same version of Office that comes on a traditional laptop/desktop. It's more in name and compatibility, but not full functionality from my understanding.
I think you're missing the point. First off, for Office, you can use iWork. It's pretty much the same thing for MOST people. Most people don't use much else other than what iWork does, especially for a tablet. IF someone is going to need more functionality of what Office does, then they would need a much more powerful computer, but most people don't do that.
An iPad with a Core i5 would be a much more powerful computer.
And power not just for Office but also Aperture, iLife, Photoshop, Pixelmator, etc.
And Office is greatly desired because of Powerpoint and Excel.
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I think a lot of people have this misconception that in order for a tablet to be used in a business manner that it has to run Office. iPads are used by business professionals that use them for a LOT more than typical Office apps.
Yes, but if you need Office you're still tethered to yet another device. Lots of folks still need Office and that simply cannot be denied.
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There are interior designer, architects, graphics professionals, music production, audio production, banking, etc., etc. where they use a professional grade tablet app that does something related to their BUSINESS that isn't a spreadsheet, wp, presentation software or email communications. So this, it has to run Office for it to be a business tablet, is a line of Microsoft marketing BS.
All of whom have applications on their Mac that they do not have on their iPad. And professional grade tablet apps are starved for more power so moving to a more powerful Intel CPU isn't a terrible thing.
The fact that I need MS Office if I need to replace my laptop with the iPad is not marketing BS. It's just the way it is given the way our enterprise is set up and not something that will change any time soon.
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An iPad is NOT an equivalent to a MBA when docked to a keyboard.
Sure it can be. Lots of folks I know have given up their laptops in favor of an iPad and keyboard.
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I personally, wouldn't use an iPad when a traditional laptop/desktop would be needed, and visa versa. To buy an iPad thinking it will totally take the place of a laptop? No, I don't think it really should be taken that way.
You missed the memo on the Post PC revolution...
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there are always going to be some people that want to spend as little money as possible and do as much as possible and I just think Office type apps on a tablet is more for limited functionality than full functionality. That's why Windows 7 kinda sucks as a touchscreen tablet OS, which is essentially what Windows 8 is once you get past the start up screen.
Win7 and Win8 aren't very good tablet OS's. That's true. So what?
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A MBA can connect to Thunderbolt devices, has much more storage, better graphics, and runs OS X not iOS.
The keyboard dock easily contain more storage along with more battery as well as TB, USB3, etc. A Core i3/i5 based iPad would have the same graphics as the MBA.
iOS is OSX modified for the iPhone and iPad and most iOS apps can run today on OSX given they are developed on OSX and often run on the simulator with code compiled for the x86 platform and not ARM.
There's little reason that a 11" or 13" MBA convertible couldn't run in a tablet mode that is very much like iOS when detached from the keyboard dock with a large portion of the iPad app library available. When docked, just like in the intel reference system, it could have whatever resolution it wants so long as in tablet mode it was some mulitple of 1024x768 so current iPad apps could run with a simple recompile.
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When Microsoft gets their Office app out for iOS, it won't be the same version of Office that comes on a traditional laptop/desktop. It's more in name and compatibility, but not full functionality from my understanding.
The Office on OSX is full featured. An 11" or 13" MBA convertible could run it just fine. Which is the point.
A 13" MBA based iPad Pro would be even more awesome and allow Apple to keep the 10" iPad in pure tablet form. But given the popularity of the 8" iPad Mini I'd go ahead and converge the 11" MBA and 10" iPad.
An iPad with a Core i5 would be a much more powerful computer.
And power not just for Office but also Aperture, iLife, Photoshop, Pixelmator, etc.
And Office is greatly desired because of Powerpoint and Excel.
Yes, but if you need Office you're still tethered to yet another device. Lots of folks still need Office and that simply cannot be denied.
All of whom have applications on their Mac that they do not have on their iPad. And professional grade tablet apps are starved for more power so moving to a more powerful Intel CPU isn't a terrible thing.
The fact that I need MS Office if I need to replace my laptop with the iPad is not marketing BS. It's just the way it is given the way our enterprise is set up and not something that will change any time soon.
Sure it can be. Lots of folks I know have given up their laptops in favor of an iPad and keyboard.
You missed the memo on the Post PC revolution...
Win7 and Win8 aren't very good tablet OS's. That's true. So what?
The keyboard dock easily contain more storage along with more battery as well as TB, USB3, etc. A Core i3/i5 based iPad would have the same graphics as the MBA.
iOS is OSX modified for the iPhone and iPad and most iOS apps can run today on OSX given they are developed on OSX and often run on the simulator with code compiled for the x86 platform and not ARM.
There's little reason that a 11" or 13" MBA convertible couldn't run in a tablet mode that is very much like iOS when detached from the keyboard dock with a large portion of the iPad app library available. When docked, just like in the intel reference system, it could have whatever resolution it wants so long as in tablet mode it was some mulitple of 1024x768 so current iPad apps could run with a simple recompile.
The Office on OSX is full featured. An 11" or 13" MBA convertible could run it just fine. Which is the point.
A 13" MBA based iPad Pro would be even more awesome and allow Apple to keep the 10" iPad in pure tablet form. But given the popularity of the 8" iPad Mini I'd go ahead and converge the 11" MBA and 10" iPad.
Running on an iPad? making a laptop with an even smaller display isn't a good thing. I've used the 11inch, even that's too small of a screen. making it any smaller would be FOOLISH.
But for a tablet, people don't want to run a full blown OS, they don't want to have that. Tablet users typically just want full screen apps, and just click on the icon with very little administration/maintenance of an OS. They want brain dead easy to use. A full OS on a tablet doesn't make sense. Sorry, but i understand where you are going with this, but it's just trying to make a tablet into something that too complicated for what a tablet should be. Microsoft has already tried to stuff a full blown OS in a tablet form for many years, about 10 or so, and it's done nothing but fail. The whole concept of iOS and the iPad is successful because it doesn't NEED to have a full blown OS. That just makes it more complicated to use and requires more support. The whole concept of having windows based OS eats of screen real estate.
Why aren't Windows 7/8 tablets that good? Because it's using a full OS for a tablet. Which is what you want to do. That's what has FAILED.
They just need to improve and add features to iOS, but still keep that simple to use OS. They will just have a slimmed down version of Office, which is what iWork does. Apple has a LOT of iWork users on the iPad and it functionally does the same thing as Office. People are just brainwashed into thinking that it HAS TO HAVE Office. I guess for those brainwashed into using Office, I guess they do, but MS is coming out with the iOS version of Office, they are just dragging their feet on it. I still think that making an IPad into trying to replace a MBA is kinda dumb.
Look at the new Cintiq portable that Wacom just announced. It's exactly what creative professionals have been waiting for, only you're forced to use Windows on it. That machine, running OS X is exactly what Apple should have already been making. If you've ever used an a Wacom tablet with OS X, you know that it works amazingly well, and that it's a big upgrade over other input methods.
Running on an iPad? making a laptop with an even smaller display isn't a good thing. I've used the 11inch, even that's too small of a screen. making it any smaller would be FOOLISH.
It wouldn't be smaller. It would stay at 11" and 13". The iPad gets bigger.
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But for a tablet, people don't want to run a full blown OS, they don't want to have that. Tablet users typically just want full screen apps, and just click on the icon with very little administration/maintenance of an OS. They want brain dead easy to use. A full OS on a tablet doesn't make sense. Sorry, but i understand where you are going with this, but it's just trying to make a tablet into something that too complicated for what a tablet should be. Microsoft has already tried to stuff a full blown OS in a tablet form for many years, about 10 or so, and it's done nothing but fail. The whole concept of iOS and the iPad is successful because it doesn't NEED to have a full blown OS. That just makes it more complicated to use and requires more support. The whole concept of having windows based OS eats of screen real estate.
Why aren't Windows 7/8 tablets that good? Because it's using a full OS for a tablet. Which is what you want to do. That's what has FAILED.
Windows 7/8 convertibles aren't bad as laptops. Just not so great as tablets especially with the lack of tablet apps.
A windows based OS in laptop mode works very well. And frankly, there's nothing about iOS that isn't "full blown" under the hood.
You seem to think this is about making a tablet more complicated. I think of this as adding tablet functionality to the MBA and getting rid of one device.
If I could simply hit a button on the 11" MBA, remove the display and have an iPad what's not to like?
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They just need to improve and add features to iOS, but still keep that simple to use OS. They will just have a slimmed down version of Office, which is what iWork does. Apple has a LOT of iWork users on the iPad and it functionally does the same thing as Office. People are just brainwashed into thinking that it HAS TO HAVE Office. I guess for those brainwashed into using Office, I guess they do, but MS is coming out with the iOS version of Office, they are just dragging their feet on it.
It's not brainwashing when someone sends me a Excel file with a lot of complex macros that I need to run. There's a lot of that in business.
Plus there are a lot of advantages to the pro user to have OSX on a Core i5 tablet. Lots of legacy apps will run. Even without the keyboard if you add a digitizer (for hover).
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I still think that making an IPad into trying to replace a MBA is kinda dumb.
Look at the new Cintiq portable that Wacom just announced. It's exactly what creative professionals have been waiting for, only you're forced to use Windows on it. That machine, running OS X is exactly what Apple should have already been making. If you've ever used an a Wacom tablet with OS X, you know that it works amazingly well, and that it's a big upgrade over other input methods.
Yah, an iPad Pro would want a digitizer in a big way. I had a Cintiq for a while and looked at the ModBook Pro. The problem is that they started with a 13" MBP and not a 13" MBA. So it's thick, heavy and unwieldy.
Look at the new Cintiq portable that Wacom just announced. It's exactly what creative professionals have been waiting for, only you're forced to use Windows on it. That machine, running OS X is exactly what Apple should have already been making. If you've ever used an a Wacom tablet with OS X, you know that it works amazingly well, and that it's a big upgrade over other input methods.
FIrst off, the CIntq is for a specific crowd of people, eh? It's not for the general population won't be buying that. That's a great idea for those people, but it is connected to what? A Mac or a PC desktop/laptop. If you go their site, it connects to a Mac or PC laptop or desktop as an ADD-ON. in fact, so are the other devices Wacom makes. So, it's meant to work more with a desktop or a traditional laptop whether it is Mac or PC, but this is not really designed for a iPad. At least the Cintq isn't.
And NO, it is NOT Windows ONLY, It's both Mac and PC. I think you probably didn't investigate that further or you read on a PC-centric site. we all know how they can leave things out.
Running on an iPad? making a laptop with an even smaller display isn't a good thing. I've used the 11inch, even that's too small of a screen. making it any smaller would be FOOLISH.
It makes you wonder why net books failed. Was it the small screens or lack of performance? It is probably all of the above combined with a legacy OS that didn't work well with the screen.
But for a tablet, people don't want to run a full blown OS, they don't want to have that. Tablet users typically just want full screen apps, and just click on the icon with very little administration/maintenance of an OS.
A full blown OS does not prevent full screen apps.
They want brain dead easy to use. A full OS on a tablet doesn't make sense. Sorry, but i understand where you are going with this, but it's just trying to make a tablet into something that too complicated for what a tablet should be.
What a tablet should be from your perspective! By the way adding more functionality to iOS does not lead to iOS becoming Mac OS. Some of the functionality that people want can be implemented in very tablet like ways.
Microsoft has already tried to stuff a full blown OS in a tablet form for many years, about 10 or so, and it's done nothing but fail. The whole concept of iOS and the iPad is successful because it doesn't NEED to have a full blown OS. That just makes it more complicated to use and requires more support. The whole concept of having windows based OS eats of screen real estate.
True but we aren't talking about half assed versions of Windows.
Why aren't Windows 7/8 tablets that good? Because it's using a full OS for a tablet. Which is what you want to do. That's what has FAILED.
Not really. At least in part it failed due to being a crap product.
They just need to improve and add features to iOS, but still keep that simple to use OS.
Exactly. Adding features to iOS won't turn it into Mac OS, at least it doesn't have too. There are ways to deliver analogs to a desktop OS feature in a tablet like way.
They will just have a slimmed down version of Office, which is what iWork does.
Which for some would suck. For example many people do make use of VB for customization. That is one reason Office is so popular. The funny thing here is that this feature will likely be deleted from the iPad versions and it is on the iPad where such features might be leveraged the most.
Apple has a LOT of iWork users on the iPad and it functionally does the same thing as Office.
Not even close.
People are just brainwashed into thinking that it HAS TO HAVE Office.
Well yeah this is very often the case and in the same regard they believe they need multitasking. This I've heard from a guy that runs his spread sheets in full screen mode all the time.
I guess for those brainwashed into using Office, I guess they do, but MS is coming out with the iOS version of Office, they are just dragging their feet on it.
For those that believe they need office and those that actually do need office, a castrated iOS version won't fly at all. Those that actually need office are a small fraction of those that think they need office.
I still think that making an IPad into trying to replace a MBA is kinda dumb.
True. However a hybrid device might not be so dumb. Here a laptop like machine wouldn't be a bad idea. Note I said "like".
In the end though I think the focus on keyboards will be short lived. Give us on board Siri like voice input with the IA to support it and the need for a keyboard can be greatly diminished. All we really need is a new series of processors from Apple suitable for running an AI in parallel with the app running in the machine. A smart AI would work in tandem with Apples servers when needed. A local AI speeds up response times while freeing up Apples servers, further it has knowledge about the local system that should help with its performance.
Someplace on the net you can find an old video of an Apple Knowledge Navigator concept. I suspect this is the direction Apple wants to take iOS. UNIX will still be at the core of the OS but the interface will become very high level.
Net books failed because the processors they were using were just too slow for the OS that was running on them and the screen size was just too small.
If I was going to buy a laptop, I wouldn't buy anything with a screen less than 13 inch, that's just me. I know plenty of people buy the 11inch MBA and I'm sure they like it, but that's for casual laptop users.
Once you get into a tablet that's controlled by one's finger and the screen size gets smaller, there is less room for windows, menu bars, etc. and people don't want or need a full blown OS with functionality that is more designed for a desktop app, not a tablet app.
I am very aware that a full blow OS doesn't prevent full screen apps, but it's generally tailored for people that use both full screen and not full screen apps. I personally RARELY use full screen mode on my desktop. I prefer to have several large windows using different apps or different windows of the same app side by side, which is why I use a 27inch screen. It's got enough room to do that.
No, the Windows 7/8 tablets have failed so far because they were thick, heavy, required a stylus, didn't have long battery life, etc. THey are getting them thinner but the Windows 7 UI is still not the most friendly without the use of a mouse. It takes up a lot of real estate.
iWork on an iPad does what people actually use. When you use Office, you hardly use the features. I would say MOST people use about 20% of the functionality of Office even on desktops. What Apple did is figure out what are the most common things done with Office and that's what they put in iWork. The most common features. I don't think Office for iPad is going to have full functionality of Office for the desktop.
How do you know a castrated version of it won't fly? It's a tablet not a full blown desktop/laptop. People are using tablets more of as a reader with limited functionality, rather than sitting down creating huge spread sheets, with macros, etc. They'll use a tablet more of a reader with limited functionality and if they create a macro spreadsheet to be viewed and filled out on a tablet, then they'll use that.
I'm very familiar with the Knowledge Navigator project. It's already about half way there.
"UNIX will still be at the core of the OS but the interface will become very high level." I don't understand why you mentioned this. It's already a Unix based OS and will continue to do so.
Well it's not a tablet when docked to the keyboard. It's 11" a MBA equivalent.
The iPad mini strikes me as the best form factor for consumption and at a lower cost. An iPad Pro with keyboard doc would be a killer business machine if it could run office.
The price of an iPad Pro, would probably end up being as much as a MacBook Air 13 inch. So you might as well buy that.
Someplace on the net you can find an old video of an Apple Knowledge Navigator concept. I suspect this is the direction Apple wants to take iOS. UNIX will still be at the core of the OS but the interface will become very high level.
I agree; computers should aid us more, become more pro-active. Just not in a Google Now, S Voice, TellMe or EasilyDo kind of way.
The price of an iPad Pro, would probably end up being as much as a MacBook Air 13 inch. So you might as well buy that.
Except that the iPad Pro would be much better because I can use it to draw diagrams and run as a tablet when I want to. It can do everything the 13 MBA can do + wacom + iPad.
Why would I "might as well" buy an inferior device?
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Originally Posted by drblank
I think it's a safe assumption that Apple won't use i3 chips. They only support i5 and i7 chips for their laptops and desktops. I don't Apple is even interested in i3's they aren't that desperate for sales to compete at the i3 level. Most of the dirt cheap PC laptops are i3, and that's a market Apple doesn't want to play in because there is no room for decent profits. Personally, Intel should raise their standards for processors and not destroy mfg abilities to make a decent profit. These companies can't survive selling $400 laptops.
Like I said, lets wait and see how the Haswell Y series do in convertible tablets this year. 14nm chips will be even better.
Now we could argue about what is the OS. Core OS activities take place in the integer units of the CPU which is a limited view of an OS. These days though it is reasonable to think of things such as video encode/decode, 3D acceleration, compute support and other things as part of the OS.
The problem is Intel needs a lot of design wins and the industry doesn't want to play Intels game anymore. It isn't just Intels market manipulation that is a problem it is the fact that the industry has changed. Systems these days are not built on a printed circuit board like in the past, rather systems are designed on chips. What Woz use to do with Pals and a few TTL chips is now done with CAD system targeting the latest silicon process. Intel just doesn't seem to be really oriented to this reality, they want to sell a handful of generic chips to as many customers as possible. That is not how I see it. Apple is a primary competitor for Intel. If you look at Apples sales, Intel is loosing 50 million sales a quarter. Not only that but to be able to compete with Apple, the likes of Samsung and other device manufactures have no choice but to do their own custom chips.
In any event Intel competes with Apple but not in the traditional way. It is all about lost sales and the impact Apple has on the market. Think about the next processes node which should double available transistors to Apple and will likely do so all the way to 14nm. At some point those transistors become valuable for different functionality rather than yet another core. It is hard to say how Apple will use those transistors but it is a certainty they won't use those transistors in the same way Intel will. I've really grown attached to my iPad, as such my need for a laptop simply isn't as strong as it once was. If I do buy another laptop it will be for performance something the MBA is not oriented towards. Of course with 14 nm chips, maybe a MBA would be in my future. As for iPad I'm not sure if this year will deliver a major enhancement to the "A" series chips. However Apple has a long ways to go performance wise, I just don't see a convertible replacing my iPad even if it has a Haswell based processor.
14 nm will be huge. Haswell was a huge step forward in power management, 14 nm would allow for the equivalent of two haswell processors on a die
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Originally Posted by nht
Like I said, lets wait and see how the Haswell Y series do in convertible tablets this year. 14nm chips will be even better.
Apple isn't going to make a convertible.
I wouldn't want OS X on a tablet. I would like more features of OS in iOS, but I don't want the full OS X experience on a tablet.
Personally, what I think is killing the PC industry is too many different chips with too subtle of a difference between them.
I also think it's poor taste on Intel's side that they don't even have pictures and specs on Apple desktops/laptops on their website. The seem to promote the PC industry, but not Macs and Apple has more Intel technology inside their computers than these PCs do, especially since Apple promotes Thunderbolt I/O.
Well it's not a tablet when docked to the keyboard. It's 11" a MBA equivalent.
The iPad mini strikes me as the best form factor for consumption and at a lower cost. An iPad Pro with keyboard doc would be a killer business machine if it could run office.
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Originally Posted by nht
Well it's not a tablet when docked to the keyboard. It's 11" a MBA equivalent.
The iPad mini strikes me as the best form factor for consumption and at a lower cost. An iPad Pro with keyboard doc would be a killer business machine if it could run office.
I think you're missing the point. First off, for Office, you can use iWork. It's pretty much the same thing for MOST people. Most people don't use much else other than what iWork does, especially for a tablet. IF someone is going to need more functionality of what Office does, then they would need a much more powerful computer, but most people don't do that.
I think a lot of people have this misconception that in order for a tablet to be used in a business manner that it has to run Office. iPads are used by business professionals that use them for a LOT more than typical Office apps. There are interior designer, architects, graphics professionals, music production, audio production, banking, etc., etc. where they use a professional grade tablet app that does something related to their BUSINESS that isn't a spreadsheet, wp, presentation software or email communications. So this, it has to run Office for it to be a business tablet, is a line of Microsoft marketing BS.
An iPad is NOT an equivalent to a MBA when docked to a keyboard. I personally, wouldn't use an iPad when a traditional laptop/desktop would be needed, and visa versa. To buy an iPad thinking it will totally take the place of a laptop? No, I don't think it really should be taken that way. there are always going to be some people that want to spend as little money as possible and do as much as possible and I just think Office type apps on a tablet is more for limited functionality than full functionality. That's why Windows 7 kinda sucks as a touchscreen tablet OS, which is essentially what Windows 8 is once you get past the start up screen.
A MBA can connect to Thunderbolt devices, has much more storage, better graphics, and runs OS X not iOS.
When Microsoft gets their Office app out for iOS, it won't be the same version of Office that comes on a traditional laptop/desktop. It's more in name and compatibility, but not full functionality from my understanding.
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Originally Posted by drblank
I think you're missing the point. First off, for Office, you can use iWork. It's pretty much the same thing for MOST people. Most people don't use much else other than what iWork does, especially for a tablet. IF someone is going to need more functionality of what Office does, then they would need a much more powerful computer, but most people don't do that.
An iPad with a Core i5 would be a much more powerful computer.
And power not just for Office but also Aperture, iLife, Photoshop, Pixelmator, etc.
And Office is greatly desired because of Powerpoint and Excel.
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I think a lot of people have this misconception that in order for a tablet to be used in a business manner that it has to run Office. iPads are used by business professionals that use them for a LOT more than typical Office apps.
Yes, but if you need Office you're still tethered to yet another device. Lots of folks still need Office and that simply cannot be denied.
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There are interior designer, architects, graphics professionals, music production, audio production, banking, etc., etc. where they use a professional grade tablet app that does something related to their BUSINESS that isn't a spreadsheet, wp, presentation software or email communications. So this, it has to run Office for it to be a business tablet, is a line of Microsoft marketing BS.
All of whom have applications on their Mac that they do not have on their iPad. And professional grade tablet apps are starved for more power so moving to a more powerful Intel CPU isn't a terrible thing.
The fact that I need MS Office if I need to replace my laptop with the iPad is not marketing BS. It's just the way it is given the way our enterprise is set up and not something that will change any time soon.
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An iPad is NOT an equivalent to a MBA when docked to a keyboard.
Sure it can be. Lots of folks I know have given up their laptops in favor of an iPad and keyboard.
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I personally, wouldn't use an iPad when a traditional laptop/desktop would be needed, and visa versa. To buy an iPad thinking it will totally take the place of a laptop? No, I don't think it really should be taken that way.
You missed the memo on the Post PC revolution...
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there are always going to be some people that want to spend as little money as possible and do as much as possible and I just think Office type apps on a tablet is more for limited functionality than full functionality. That's why Windows 7 kinda sucks as a touchscreen tablet OS, which is essentially what Windows 8 is once you get past the start up screen.
Win7 and Win8 aren't very good tablet OS's. That's true. So what?
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A MBA can connect to Thunderbolt devices, has much more storage, better graphics, and runs OS X not iOS.
The keyboard dock easily contain more storage along with more battery as well as TB, USB3, etc. A Core i3/i5 based iPad would have the same graphics as the MBA.
iOS is OSX modified for the iPhone and iPad and most iOS apps can run today on OSX given they are developed on OSX and often run on the simulator with code compiled for the x86 platform and not ARM.
There's little reason that a 11" or 13" MBA convertible couldn't run in a tablet mode that is very much like iOS when detached from the keyboard dock with a large portion of the iPad app library available. When docked, just like in the intel reference system, it could have whatever resolution it wants so long as in tablet mode it was some mulitple of 1024x768 so current iPad apps could run with a simple recompile.
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When Microsoft gets their Office app out for iOS, it won't be the same version of Office that comes on a traditional laptop/desktop. It's more in name and compatibility, but not full functionality from my understanding.
The Office on OSX is full featured. An 11" or 13" MBA convertible could run it just fine. Which is the point.
A 13" MBA based iPad Pro would be even more awesome and allow Apple to keep the 10" iPad in pure tablet form. But given the popularity of the 8" iPad Mini I'd go ahead and converge the 11" MBA and 10" iPad.
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Originally Posted by nht
An iPad with a Core i5 would be a much more powerful computer.
And power not just for Office but also Aperture, iLife, Photoshop, Pixelmator, etc.
And Office is greatly desired because of Powerpoint and Excel.
Yes, but if you need Office you're still tethered to yet another device. Lots of folks still need Office and that simply cannot be denied.
All of whom have applications on their Mac that they do not have on their iPad. And professional grade tablet apps are starved for more power so moving to a more powerful Intel CPU isn't a terrible thing.
The fact that I need MS Office if I need to replace my laptop with the iPad is not marketing BS. It's just the way it is given the way our enterprise is set up and not something that will change any time soon.
Sure it can be. Lots of folks I know have given up their laptops in favor of an iPad and keyboard.
You missed the memo on the Post PC revolution...
Win7 and Win8 aren't very good tablet OS's. That's true. So what?
The keyboard dock easily contain more storage along with more battery as well as TB, USB3, etc. A Core i3/i5 based iPad would have the same graphics as the MBA.
iOS is OSX modified for the iPhone and iPad and most iOS apps can run today on OSX given they are developed on OSX and often run on the simulator with code compiled for the x86 platform and not ARM.
There's little reason that a 11" or 13" MBA convertible couldn't run in a tablet mode that is very much like iOS when detached from the keyboard dock with a large portion of the iPad app library available. When docked, just like in the intel reference system, it could have whatever resolution it wants so long as in tablet mode it was some mulitple of 1024x768 so current iPad apps could run with a simple recompile.
The Office on OSX is full featured. An 11" or 13" MBA convertible could run it just fine. Which is the point.
A 13" MBA based iPad Pro would be even more awesome and allow Apple to keep the 10" iPad in pure tablet form. But given the popularity of the 8" iPad Mini I'd go ahead and converge the 11" MBA and 10" iPad.
Running on an iPad? making a laptop with an even smaller display isn't a good thing. I've used the 11inch, even that's too small of a screen. making it any smaller would be FOOLISH.
But for a tablet, people don't want to run a full blown OS, they don't want to have that. Tablet users typically just want full screen apps, and just click on the icon with very little administration/maintenance of an OS. They want brain dead easy to use. A full OS on a tablet doesn't make sense. Sorry, but i understand where you are going with this, but it's just trying to make a tablet into something that too complicated for what a tablet should be. Microsoft has already tried to stuff a full blown OS in a tablet form for many years, about 10 or so, and it's done nothing but fail. The whole concept of iOS and the iPad is successful because it doesn't NEED to have a full blown OS. That just makes it more complicated to use and requires more support. The whole concept of having windows based OS eats of screen real estate.
Why aren't Windows 7/8 tablets that good? Because it's using a full OS for a tablet. Which is what you want to do. That's what has FAILED.
They just need to improve and add features to iOS, but still keep that simple to use OS. They will just have a slimmed down version of Office, which is what iWork does. Apple has a LOT of iWork users on the iPad and it functionally does the same thing as Office. People are just brainwashed into thinking that it HAS TO HAVE Office. I guess for those brainwashed into using Office, I guess they do, but MS is coming out with the iOS version of Office, they are just dragging their feet on it. I still think that making an IPad into trying to replace a MBA is kinda dumb.
They should.
Look at the new Cintiq portable that Wacom just announced. It's exactly what creative professionals have been waiting for, only you're forced to use Windows on it. That machine, running OS X is exactly what Apple should have already been making. If you've ever used an a Wacom tablet with OS X, you know that it works amazingly well, and that it's a big upgrade over other input methods.
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Originally Posted by drblank
Running on an iPad? making a laptop with an even smaller display isn't a good thing. I've used the 11inch, even that's too small of a screen. making it any smaller would be FOOLISH.
It wouldn't be smaller. It would stay at 11" and 13". The iPad gets bigger.
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But for a tablet, people don't want to run a full blown OS, they don't want to have that. Tablet users typically just want full screen apps, and just click on the icon with very little administration/maintenance of an OS. They want brain dead easy to use. A full OS on a tablet doesn't make sense. Sorry, but i understand where you are going with this, but it's just trying to make a tablet into something that too complicated for what a tablet should be. Microsoft has already tried to stuff a full blown OS in a tablet form for many years, about 10 or so, and it's done nothing but fail. The whole concept of iOS and the iPad is successful because it doesn't NEED to have a full blown OS. That just makes it more complicated to use and requires more support. The whole concept of having windows based OS eats of screen real estate.
Why aren't Windows 7/8 tablets that good? Because it's using a full OS for a tablet. Which is what you want to do. That's what has FAILED.
Windows 7/8 convertibles aren't bad as laptops. Just not so great as tablets especially with the lack of tablet apps.
A windows based OS in laptop mode works very well. And frankly, there's nothing about iOS that isn't "full blown" under the hood.
You seem to think this is about making a tablet more complicated. I think of this as adding tablet functionality to the MBA and getting rid of one device.
If I could simply hit a button on the 11" MBA, remove the display and have an iPad what's not to like?
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They just need to improve and add features to iOS, but still keep that simple to use OS. They will just have a slimmed down version of Office, which is what iWork does. Apple has a LOT of iWork users on the iPad and it functionally does the same thing as Office. People are just brainwashed into thinking that it HAS TO HAVE Office. I guess for those brainwashed into using Office, I guess they do, but MS is coming out with the iOS version of Office, they are just dragging their feet on it.
It's not brainwashing when someone sends me a Excel file with a lot of complex macros that I need to run. There's a lot of that in business.
Plus there are a lot of advantages to the pro user to have OSX on a Core i5 tablet. Lots of legacy apps will run. Even without the keyboard if you add a digitizer (for hover).
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I still think that making an IPad into trying to replace a MBA is kinda dumb.
Really? That wasn't clear before.
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Originally Posted by bsenka
They should.
Look at the new Cintiq portable that Wacom just announced. It's exactly what creative professionals have been waiting for, only you're forced to use Windows on it. That machine, running OS X is exactly what Apple should have already been making. If you've ever used an a Wacom tablet with OS X, you know that it works amazingly well, and that it's a big upgrade over other input methods.
Yah, an iPad Pro would want a digitizer in a big way. I had a Cintiq for a while and looked at the ModBook Pro. The problem is that they started with a 13" MBP and not a 13" MBA. So it's thick, heavy and unwieldy.
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Originally Posted by bsenka
They should.
Look at the new Cintiq portable that Wacom just announced. It's exactly what creative professionals have been waiting for, only you're forced to use Windows on it. That machine, running OS X is exactly what Apple should have already been making. If you've ever used an a Wacom tablet with OS X, you know that it works amazingly well, and that it's a big upgrade over other input methods.
FIrst off, the CIntq is for a specific crowd of people, eh? It's not for the general population won't be buying that. That's a great idea for those people, but it is connected to what? A Mac or a PC desktop/laptop. If you go their site, it connects to a Mac or PC laptop or desktop as an ADD-ON. in fact, so are the other devices Wacom makes. So, it's meant to work more with a desktop or a traditional laptop whether it is Mac or PC, but this is not really designed for a iPad. At least the Cintq isn't.
And NO, it is NOT Windows ONLY, It's both Mac and PC. I think you probably didn't investigate that further or you read on a PC-centric site. we all know how they can leave things out.
Originally Posted by bsenka
They should.
Nope.
What don't you get about OS X that you need to waste thousands of dollars to be shown? It should not be touchscreen based. OS XI should.
In the end though I think the focus on keyboards will be short lived. Give us on board Siri like voice input with the IA to support it and the need for a keyboard can be greatly diminished. All we really need is a new series of processors from Apple suitable for running an AI in parallel with the app running in the machine. A smart AI would work in tandem with Apples servers when needed. A local AI speeds up response times while freeing up Apples servers, further it has knowledge about the local system that should help with its performance.
Someplace on the net you can find an old video of an Apple Knowledge Navigator concept. I suspect this is the direction Apple wants to take iOS. UNIX will still be at the core of the OS but the interface will become very high level.
Net books failed because the processors they were using were just too slow for the OS that was running on them and the screen size was just too small.
If I was going to buy a laptop, I wouldn't buy anything with a screen less than 13 inch, that's just me. I know plenty of people buy the 11inch MBA and I'm sure they like it, but that's for casual laptop users.
Once you get into a tablet that's controlled by one's finger and the screen size gets smaller, there is less room for windows, menu bars, etc. and people don't want or need a full blown OS with functionality that is more designed for a desktop app, not a tablet app.
I am very aware that a full blow OS doesn't prevent full screen apps, but it's generally tailored for people that use both full screen and not full screen apps. I personally RARELY use full screen mode on my desktop. I prefer to have several large windows using different apps or different windows of the same app side by side, which is why I use a 27inch screen. It's got enough room to do that.
No, the Windows 7/8 tablets have failed so far because they were thick, heavy, required a stylus, didn't have long battery life, etc. THey are getting them thinner but the Windows 7 UI is still not the most friendly without the use of a mouse. It takes up a lot of real estate.
iWork on an iPad does what people actually use. When you use Office, you hardly use the features. I would say MOST people use about 20% of the functionality of Office even on desktops. What Apple did is figure out what are the most common things done with Office and that's what they put in iWork. The most common features. I don't think Office for iPad is going to have full functionality of Office for the desktop.
How do you know a castrated version of it won't fly? It's a tablet not a full blown desktop/laptop. People are using tablets more of as a reader with limited functionality, rather than sitting down creating huge spread sheets, with macros, etc. They'll use a tablet more of a reader with limited functionality and if they create a macro spreadsheet to be viewed and filled out on a tablet, then they'll use that.
I'm very familiar with the Knowledge Navigator project. It's already about half way there.
"UNIX will still be at the core of the OS but the interface will become very high level." I don't understand why you mentioned this. It's already a Unix based OS and will continue to do so.
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Originally Posted by nht
Well it's not a tablet when docked to the keyboard. It's 11" a MBA equivalent.
The iPad mini strikes me as the best form factor for consumption and at a lower cost. An iPad Pro with keyboard doc would be a killer business machine if it could run office.
The price of an iPad Pro, would probably end up being as much as a MacBook Air 13 inch. So you might as well buy that.
I agree; computers should aid us more, become more pro-active. Just not in a Google Now, S Voice, TellMe or EasilyDo kind of way.
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Originally Posted by drblank
The price of an iPad Pro, would probably end up being as much as a MacBook Air 13 inch. So you might as well buy that.
Except that the iPad Pro would be much better because I can use it to draw diagrams and run as a tablet when I want to. It can do everything the 13 MBA can do + wacom + iPad.
Why would I "might as well" buy an inferior device?