If I was going to buy a laptop, I wouldn't buy anything with a screen less than 13 inch, that's just me. I know plenty of people buy the 11inch MBA and I'm sure they like it, but that's for casual laptop users.
11" vs 13" isn't much of a difference if the 11" is retina like the iPad. When connected to my 27" display it'll be plenty of screen real estate. When on the road you adjust.
Quote:
Once you get into a tablet that's controlled by one's finger and the screen size gets smaller, there is less room for windows, menu bars, etc. and people don't want or need a full blown OS with functionality that is more designed for a desktop app, not a tablet app.
Again, when the screen is detached it can be in pure tablet mode.
And everything you write about office is the same crap everyone writes about office and yet it's still a critical business need. That YOU don't use it doesn't mean that many folks don't need it. It's one of those annoyances on the Mac really. I get visio and ms project files all the time and need to parallels. If I didn't have office I wouldn't be able to replace a PC with a mac.
Curious choice of target audience. A lot of film producers will be using the Mac Pro but they wouldn't necessarily be in the theater audience. It would be cheaper than running the ads on TV but it hits a small audience.
I think by now though, everyone who needs to know about it knows it's available. If they'd done a drop-in upgrade, it would largely have gone by without a mention.
Net books failed because the processors they were using were just too slow for the OS that was running on them and the screen size was just too small.
Pretty much what I said.
If I was going to buy a laptop, I wouldn't buy anything with a screen less than 13 inch, that's just me. I know plenty of people buy the 11inch MBA and I'm sure they like it, but that's for casual laptop users.
I tend to agree though that is more because I'm getting older and from a practical standpoint small screens and compressed user interfaces don't fly. However many young people with good eyesight have no problems at all.
Once you get into a tablet that's controlled by one's finger and the screen size gets smaller, there is less room for windows, menu bars, etc. and people don't want or need a full blown OS with functionality that is more designed for a desktop app, not a tablet app.
People don't want the user interface of a desktop OS! Functionality is a different thing all together. For example iOS sucks when it ones to downloading and saving PDFs to the device. You can open them and save them to iBooks and it still sucks because iBooks is terrible at managing storage, naming files and the like. Simple access to the file system would do wonders in this case.
I am very aware that a full blow OS doesn't prevent full screen apps, but it's generally tailored for people that use both full screen and not full screen apps. I personally RARELY use full screen mode on my desktop. I prefer to have several large windows using different apps or different windows of the same app side by side, which is why I use a 27inch screen. It's got enough room to do that.
No, the Windows 7/8 tablets have failed so far because they were thick, heavy, required a stylus, didn't have long battery life, etc. THey are getting them thinner but the Windows 7 UI is still not the most friendly without the use of a mouse. It takes up a lot of real estate.
They failed because of Windows.
iWork on an iPad does what people actually use.
If that was the case it would be taking over the market.
When you use Office, you hardly use the features. I would say MOST people use about 20% of the functionality of Office even on desktops. What Apple did is figure out what are the most common things done with Office and that's what they put in iWork. The most common features. I don't think Office for iPad is going to have full functionality of Office for the desktop.
Office for iPad can't have the same functionality as the desktop version because of the developer guidelines. I'd really rather see Apple loosen up a bit in this regard, especially when it ones to interpreters.
As for that 20% figure who cares what percentage gets used by whom, what or where? The spreadsheet user that has Excel open and running 8 hours a day may not even touch the other Office apps.
How do you know a castrated version of it won't fly? It's a tablet not a full blown desktop/laptop. People are using tablets more of as a reader with limited functionality, rather than sitting down creating huge spread sheets, with macros, etc. They'll use a tablet more of a reader with limited functionality and if they create a macro spreadsheet to be viewed and filled out on a tablet, then they'll use that.
If the app doesn't support VBA then how are these spreadsheets produced elsewhere going to run? The biggest reason for Offices success is the ability to run custom scripts and the ability to package those up as an app.
I'm very familiar with the Knowledge Navigator project. It's already about half way there.
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18px;"> "UNIX will still be at the core of the OS but the interface will become very high level." I don't understand why you mentioned this. It's already a Unix based OS and will continue to do so.</span>
Why did I mention this? Are you serious? It is pretty obvious as I was projecting a move to a much higher level interface.
What don't you get about OS X that you need to waste thousands of dollars to be shown? It should not be touchscreen based. OS XI should.
You should really take your own advice and stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about. Using a Wacom tablet with OS X is a huge improvement over using a mouse or trackpad.
FIrst off, the CIntq is for a specific crowd of people, eh? It's not for the general population won't be buying that. That's a great idea for those people, but it is connected to what? A Mac or a PC desktop/laptop. If you go their site, it connects to a Mac or PC laptop or desktop as an ADD-ON. in fact, so are the other devices Wacom makes. So, it's meant to work more with a desktop or a traditional laptop whether it is Mac or PC, but this is not really designed for a iPad. At least the Cintq isn't.
And NO, it is NOT Windows ONLY, It's both Mac and PC. I think you probably didn't investigate that further or you read on a PC-centric site. we all know how they can leave things out.
Hooray. Another guy who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about, but won't stop typing.
I've been using Wacom tablets professionally for over 15 years. I know how they work, and I know the different models. The new Cintiq portable is not an add-on. It is a stand alone portable. And there absolutely is NOT a Mac version. If there was, I'd buy it.
You should really take your own advice and stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about. Using a Wacom tablet with OS X is a huge improvement over using a mouse or trackpad.
I'm curious is your comment in relation to general computer use or something like CAD, illustration, or general content creation?
I'm curious is your comment in relation to general computer use or something like CAD, illustration, or general content creation?
I use a Wacom for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago). However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse. Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.
I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork. Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.
And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k
6-core Xeon E5 CPU
16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)
128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM
I think 2k will be too low for differentiating it from the iMac. I don't think Apple prices are reflecting the costs and margins involved; they look to be more artificially dreamed up so 'it'll flow better'. Just look at iOS storage; it's $100 but the first upgrade gets you 16GB, the next 32, next 64 (iPad4). I presume (and see all around me) people either get the 16 or 32GB versions, meaning the demand for highest capacity is lowest, making that more expensive for Apple because of limited quantities. But I digress to iOS.
MP: the 128GB RAM will need a bit of tuning in OSX as that currently only sees 96GB, don't know if the 10.9 betas already have been updated. I think you're right on the money with the lower-end having 4x4.
I'd say the maxed out one will have 1TB SSD, and, yes, entry level 128GB.
I use a Wacom for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago). However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse. Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.
I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork. Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.
I too have found that the pen/tablet is much easier on the body than a mouse. I have used one form of pen/tablet for more than 25 years (including one that had a wire coming out of the pen!). Only a mouse causes me any pain. I briefly worked as an At Home Advisor for Apple and their ergo department gave me the stink-eye when I brought up my theory about tablets vs. mice. But I quit that job after 6 weeks so the mouse they made me use didn't have much time to mess me up.
I use a Wacom for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago). However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse. Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.
I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork. Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.
Typically mice aren't suitable for any work that requires large amounts of articulation. They also lack some of the driver features in terms of mapping and any kind of pressure sensitivity. I'm well aware of the differences, as the first wacom I used had a serial connection. Mice were just never designed for that kind of thing, and the pen and tablet format is the best thing we have there. I suspect part of the reason you run into software trouble is due to using smaller (possibly non commercial?) software packages. Any of the major paint and 3d app packages have intuos driver support.
I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k
12-core Xeon E5 CPU
128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)
756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM
And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k
6-core Xeon E5 CPU
16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)
128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM
Good call, Mac Ronin.
Think we need an entry model for the mortals. Think you've got he specs about right. 256 gig SSD would be better though. They're not expensive now...
It's not like they'd be including the 27 inch monitor in the iMac. So the cost of not including that would off set the extra gpu...and the Xeon cpu. They'll save in materials and shipping. That should help offset the cost of the entry Xeon/Cpu.
Can't wait for the Pro. And I say that as the owner of a flag ship iMac. Cost me £2200+, I think.
The entry Pro should be way below that to drive some unit sales again.
They can also leave off the mouse and keyboard. Some people will be buying several of these babies to use as farms; I would if I could and it would be wireless especially with the speedy new WiFi.
Saw a rumor somewhere about October 15 for another event... Isn't that next Friday?
Think we need an entry model for the mortals. Think you've got he specs about right. 256 gig SSD would be better though. They're not expensive now...
Actually I'm thinking 512 GB ought to be the minimal. As you note prices are dropping and more so another round of chips is about to come on the market.
It's not like they'd be including the 27 inch monitor in the iMac. So the cost of not including that would off set the extra gpu...and the Xeon cpu. They'll save in materials and shipping. That should help offset the cost of the entry Xeon/Cpu.
Depending upon the CPU the cost might not be that exceptional. They would need a combination of hardware that adds up to around $1500 to hit the $2000 retail price range. Honestly I'd rather see a model with that 6 core Xeon and a single higher performance GPU. Sometimes though four cores and two GPU's seem to be more satisfying, I guess people can never be happy with configurations. This highlights though that people will not be Happy with Apple lineup no matter what Apple does.
Can't wait for the Pro. And I say that as the owner of a flag ship iMac. Cost me £2200+, I think.
The entry Pro should be way below that to drive some unit sales again.
If they don't come up with a way to drive sales I don't think the platform will be around long in either an entry level or power users configuration.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I'm still thinking that this Mac Pro introduction is the perfect time to refactor the Mini into a machine with a wider performance profile. We still need the entry level machine but we also need a less that $1000 Mini that is actually worth the money paid for it. In this regard the Haswell offer the opportunity to move to desktop chips and thus offer a truly big differential in performance vs the entry level Mini. I'm really hoping that the rule book for the Mini got trashed too as that platform is stale to the same degree the Mac Pro is.
I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k
12-core Xeon E5 CPU
128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)
756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM
And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k
6-core Xeon E5 CPU
16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)
128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM
$2k would be nice but the way Apple does pricing $2.5k is probably more realistic. Also the present MacPro comes with 6GB RAM so I'm expecting 8GB in the new machine, probably (shudder) 4x2GB. And if the storage is only 128GB, then the MacPro is liable to be laughed out the door. It should come with 512GB as a bare minimum, but again given the Apple way it'll probably be 256GB, forcing you to upgrade the storage. I'm still hoping pricing and availability will be announce with the release of Maverick next month(?).
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
If I was going to buy a laptop, I wouldn't buy anything with a screen less than 13 inch, that's just me. I know plenty of people buy the 11inch MBA and I'm sure they like it, but that's for casual laptop users.
11" vs 13" isn't much of a difference if the 11" is retina like the iPad. When connected to my 27" display it'll be plenty of screen real estate. When on the road you adjust.
Quote:
Once you get into a tablet that's controlled by one's finger and the screen size gets smaller, there is less room for windows, menu bars, etc. and people don't want or need a full blown OS with functionality that is more designed for a desktop app, not a tablet app.
Again, when the screen is detached it can be in pure tablet mode.
And everything you write about office is the same crap everyone writes about office and yet it's still a critical business need. That YOU don't use it doesn't mean that many folks don't need it. It's one of those annoyances on the Mac really. I get visio and ms project files all the time and need to parallels. If I didn't have office I wouldn't be able to replace a PC with a mac.
[VIDEO]
Macrumors reported on this a few days ago saying these Mac Pro trailers were being shown in cinemas before a variety of movies started:
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/16/apple-begins-showing-mac-pro-teaser-in-movie-theaters-with-coming-fall-2013-announcement/
Curious choice of target audience. A lot of film producers will be using the Mac Pro but they wouldn't necessarily be in the theater audience. It would be cheaper than running the ads on TV but it hits a small audience.
I think by now though, everyone who needs to know about it knows it's available. If they'd done a drop-in upgrade, it would largely have gone by without a mention.
As for that 20% figure who cares what percentage gets used by whom, what or where? The spreadsheet user that has Excel open and running 8 hours a day may not even touch the other Office apps. If the app doesn't support VBA then how are these spreadsheets produced elsewhere going to run? The biggest reason for Offices success is the ability to run custom scripts and the ability to package those up as an app. Why did I mention this? Are you serious? It is pretty obvious as I was projecting a move to a much higher level interface.
You should really take your own advice and stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about. Using a Wacom tablet with OS X is a huge improvement over using a mouse or trackpad.
Hooray. Another guy who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about, but won't stop typing.
I've been using Wacom tablets professionally for over 15 years. I know how they work, and I know the different models. The new Cintiq portable is not an add-on. It is a stand alone portable. And there absolutely is NOT a Mac version. If there was, I'd buy it.
Originally Posted by bsenka
Using a Wacom tablet with OS X is a huge improvement over using a mouse or trackpad.
Not really, no. You talking Intuos or Cintiq? Even the latter isn't better than mouse/trackpad+keyboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka
You should really take your own advice and stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about. Using a Wacom tablet with OS X is a huge improvement over using a mouse or trackpad.
I'm curious is your comment in relation to general computer use or something like CAD, illustration, or general content creation?
Mac Pro bound Xeon now available on New Egg...for only $2,749!
I guess we know this new machine is going to cost about $6k.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116925&Tpk=E5-2697+v2
Mac Pro bound Xeon now available on New Egg...for only $2,749!
I guess we know the high-end model of this new machine is going to cost about $6k.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116925&Tpk=E5-2697+v2
Fixed that for you… ;^p
I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k
12-core Xeon E5 CPU
128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)
756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM
And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k
6-core Xeon E5 CPU
16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)
128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM
I'm curious is your comment in relation to general computer use or something like CAD, illustration, or general content creation?
I use a Wacom for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago). However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse. Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.
I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork. Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.
Like its specs, that is one hell of a number. Never thought I'd see the day for a CPU to be this expensive.
I think 2k will be too low for differentiating it from the iMac. I don't think Apple prices are reflecting the costs and margins involved; they look to be more artificially dreamed up so 'it'll flow better'. Just look at iOS storage; it's $100 but the first upgrade gets you 16GB, the next 32, next 64 (iPad4). I presume (and see all around me) people either get the 16 or 32GB versions, meaning the demand for highest capacity is lowest, making that more expensive for Apple because of limited quantities. But I digress to iOS.
MP: the 128GB RAM will need a bit of tuning in OSX as that currently only sees 96GB, don't know if the 10.9 betas already have been updated. I think you're right on the money with the lower-end having 4x4.
I'd say the maxed out one will have 1TB SSD, and, yes, entry level 128GB.
/rant
How long till October?
I use a Wacom for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago). However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse. Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.
I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork. Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.
I too have found that the pen/tablet is much easier on the body than a mouse. I have used one form of pen/tablet for more than 25 years (including one that had a wire coming out of the pen!). Only a mouse causes me any pain. I briefly worked as an At Home Advisor for Apple and their ergo department gave me the stink-eye when I brought up my theory about tablets vs. mice. But I quit that job after 6 weeks so the mouse they made me use didn't have much time to mess me up.
How long till October?
Too long. Might not even be october if you're waiting on a mini like I am.
I use a Wacom for artwork (what I originally bought it for years ago). However, as the years go by and body parts start breaking/falling off, I have found the tablet much easier on the joints (primarily the wrist and index finger) over using a mouse. Sadly one or two apps don't work well with the pen on the tablet, so I have to resort to a mouse, but then the pain begins again.
I also use a ShuttlePro 2 and a 3D mouse for input and artwork. Both received updates this summer that allow tem to work more easily in more apps.
Typically mice aren't suitable for any work that requires large amounts of articulation. They also lack some of the driver features in terms of mapping and any kind of pressure sensitivity. I'm well aware of the differences, as the first wacom I used had a serial connection. Mice were just never designed for that kind of thing, and the pen and tablet format is the best thing we have there. I suspect part of the reason you run into software trouble is due to using smaller (possibly non commercial?) software packages. Any of the major paint and 3d app packages have intuos driver support.
Fixed that for you… ;^p
I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k
12-core Xeon E5 CPU
128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)
756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM
And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k
6-core Xeon E5 CPU
16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)
128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM
Good call, Mac Ronin.
Think we need an entry model for the mortals. Think you've got he specs about right. 256 gig SSD would be better though. They're not expensive now...
It's not like they'd be including the 27 inch monitor in the iMac. So the cost of not including that would off set the extra gpu...and the Xeon cpu. They'll save in materials and shipping. That should help offset the cost of the entry Xeon/Cpu.
Can't wait for the Pro. And I say that as the owner of a flag ship iMac. Cost me £2200+, I think.
The entry Pro should be way below that to drive some unit sales again.
Lemon Bon Bon.
They can also leave off the mouse and keyboard. Some people will be buying several of these babies to use as farms; I would if I could and it would be wireless especially with the speedy new WiFi.
Saw a rumor somewhere about October 15 for another event... Isn't that next Friday?
I'm still thinking that this Mac Pro introduction is the perfect time to refactor the Mini into a machine with a wider performance profile. We still need the entry level machine but we also need a less that $1000 Mini that is actually worth the money paid for it. In this regard the Haswell offer the opportunity to move to desktop chips and thus offer a truly big differential in performance vs the entry level Mini. I'm really hoping that the rule book for the Mini got trashed too as that platform is stale to the same degree the Mac Pro is.
Fixed that for you… ;^p
I actually think a fully-specced out Mac Pro would be around 7.5k
12-core Xeon E5 CPU
128GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x32GB)
756GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W9000 GPUs w/6GB ECC GDDR5 RAM
And I am REALLY hoping the entry-level model comes in around 2k
6-core Xeon E5 CPU
16GB ECC DDR3 RAM (4x4GB)
128GB PCI-E FlashRAM SSD
Two (2) W5000 GPUs w/2GB GDDR5 RAM
$2k would be nice but the way Apple does pricing $2.5k is probably more realistic. Also the present MacPro comes with 6GB RAM so I'm expecting 8GB in the new machine, probably (shudder) 4x2GB. And if the storage is only 128GB, then the MacPro is liable to be laughed out the door. It should come with 512GB as a bare minimum, but again given the Apple way it'll probably be 256GB, forcing you to upgrade the storage. I'm still hoping pricing and availability will be announce with the release of Maverick next month(?).