well, this is HUGE. standardized game control bluetooth API's will enable Logitech and the rest to offer snap-in controller frames for the iPod touch and the iPad Mini that could be used for any iPhone/iPad .... (blah blah blah, plastic game controller!)
It isn't "huge," at all.
iOS gaming has already passed plastic hand-held controllers by and left them in the dust on the side of the road. The majority of games on iOS work just fine without a controller and most work better or are specifically designed to take advantage of the touch platform not some old plastic hunk-o-junk from the 1990's. There is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one.
Get real. Move forward not back. Embrace the future.
This would be the final nail in the Nintendo coffin. 3DS games cost way to much and my kids would be all over this!
This would not be a death sentence but it would be a real challenge to Nintendo. Handhelds are really Nintendo's strong point and are what keep making Nintendo a major force even when their home consoles are not selling well. I don't see Apple wiping that out with a gaming controller.
I could see Apple packaging this with an iPod touch, but not an iPhone. Even then, I am not sure Apple wants to take on consoles or gaming handhelds head-on as much as they just want to improve gaming on iOS devices. I think they're content competing with the gaming industry indirectly, the way they are now.
Curious to those in the know- I assume this is one of the advantages of lightning vs 30-pin?
Really the capabilities to the lightning connector are only limited by speed, imagination and technology. It's basically like a USB/firewire port. If you can engineer the device, write the driver and can figure out how to make communicate with iOS, it is possible.
Apple can now expand the sorts of devices that will work with iOS simply through software updates.
iOS gaming has already passed plastic hand-held controllers by and left them in the dust on the side of the road. The majority of games on iOS work just fine without a controller and most work better or are specifically designed to take advantage of the touch platform not some old plastic hunk-o-junk from the 1990's. There is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one.
Get real. Move forward not back. Embrace the future.
Easy there, killer. No one said this was going to be packaged with every iOS device. Apple is just standardizing a device category. No different than when they established accessory capabilities for classic iPods (30 pin connector defined pins for certain tasks) or added Smart Card support to OS X. It all enhances the ecosystem.
For what it's worth, I find it very difficult to play traditional platform games with touch. Shantae: Risky's Revenge will be re-downloaded if this controller becomes reality.
There's a session dedicated to game controllers on the WWDC site now. It's not an Apple controller, MFi is the Made For iDevice program and it has 3 standard control schemes that all compatible controllers have to stick to. Mac compatible too.
There are two types that connect onto the device and one type that is a separate controller:
1. a clip-on controller with a d-pad, 4 buttons, pause and two shoulder buttons
2. a clip-on with all of (1) plus two analog sticks and two extra shoulder buttons
3. a standalone controller with all of (2) and multiple player lights
All buttons are pressure sensitive and all controls on all controllers have to feel the same way. Logitech and some other company have controllers coming out and prototypes are at WWDC. They demoed a new game from Crytek, which had really nice graphics as you'd expect. It was a tactical combat game and showed the use of combined controller and touch so you are looking down on a squad and moving with the physical controls but to send individual members to fight, you can tap and drag each soldier into position.
Not only is this a major boost to mobile gaming but that's another AAA developer on board. While the touch controls do work for a lot of games, they fall short in FPS games because you have to look and shoot with the same thumb. Games like Mass Effect are quite awkward to use. It will be interesting to see how it works with the iPad. I suspect the popular route there would be to either use an iPod with a case alongside it or just the standalone controllers. I doubt many people will make clip-on controllers for it.
I think they could have gotten away with just a bumper and shoulder buttons. The main issue wasn't the buttons so much as simultaneous inputs but this will appease people who prefer tactile buttons and thumb sticks.
the smartest thing Nintendo could do is make and sell its own iOS game controller and then release iOS versions of its big hit games for it.
I think they'd make a lot of money from their game franchises but from a long-term business point of view, they're probably better off controlling their own platform. I think they should have scrapped the idea of a traditional console and made a fast tablet - e.g WiiTab. They could have built it on a fork of Android. This would have allowed them to offer a whole load of other apps but they could run their own store with AAA titles and Indie titles and promote those. They could have had educational games, books and so on. It would have HDMI out and dock to the TV and when the TV needs to be used or they go in the car, they just undock the WiiTab and take it with them. While WiiPad might seem nicer at first, it definitely sounds like a sanitary product.
You sheep ought to enjoy this site, especially the section about everyone's favorite loser, the one and only, who cannot even afford iPhone5, Tallest Skil:
iOS gaming has already passed plastic hand-held controllers by and left them in the dust on the side of the road. The majority of games on iOS work just fine without a controller and most work better or are specifically designed to take advantage of the touch platform not some old plastic hunk-o-junk from the 1990's. There is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one.
Get real. Move forward not back. Embrace the future.
"there is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one."
well, this is HUGE. standardized game control bluetooth API's will enable Logitech and the rest to offer snap-in controller frames for the iPod touch and the iPad Mini that could be used for any iPhone/iPad game. combine that with an Apple TV via AirPlay, and for <$200 you have a two screen game console! with lots of good games that cost $10 or less!!
this is totally disruptive. it's a Wii U killer, flat out*. hard core gamers will still want the XBox One/PS 4 for their big hit games, but that's about all. the second and third tier games will have to compete with iOS games with much lower prices. and so then they will start to sell iOS versions to protect what markets they got.
*the smartest thing Nintendo could do is make and sell its own iOS game controller and then release iOS versions of its big hit games for it. there is a potential huge new market for them on iOS - they could be the top game maker in the entire Apple ecosystem. but they won't. they think it's still 2007 when they were on top, and they are going to stick to their dreams of re-living past glory until they are nearly bankrupt.
I have always noticed a delay between my iPad and my tv when air playing games. Then again I have always hated the Wii for the exact same reason...
iOS gaming has already passed plastic hand-held controllers by and left them in the dust on the side of the road. The majority of games on iOS work just fine without a controller and most work better or are specifically designed to take advantage of the touch platform not some old plastic hunk-o-junk from the 1990's. There is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one.
Get real. Move forward not back. Embrace the future.
Virtual joysticks and buttons suck on action games. A lot.
Wow, so many Nintendo haters in here. I wonder if you guys want Apple to kill Xbox and PlayStation as well?
Xbox One has killed itself. Absolutely everything about the device is WRONG, and the feeble games won't save it. Playstation will obviously do second best of this generation. WiiU will, of course, be first.
Wow, so many Nintendo haters in here. I wonder if you guys want Apple to kill Xbox and PlayStation as well?
Xbox One has killed itself. Absolutely everything about the device is WRONG, and the feeble games won't save it. Playstation will obviously do second best of this generation. WiiU will, of course, be first.
Sony made a funny video about the XBox One's game sharing. It went viral - has over 9m views in 3 days:
[VIDEO]
Their presentation at E3 had a lot of trying to do everything opposite to Microsoft. I think they've played it quite smart this time because they announced it first but kept all the details back until Microsoft spilled the beans and then made them look bad. They even undercut their price. The XBox One or XBone as it's being called, is $499 and the PS4 is $399. This is partly because the Kinect is bundled/required but Sony's motion detection camera (which looks identical) is optional with the PS4. The 32GB Wii U is $355 on Amazon.
The PS4 is not quite as cool looking as I'd hoped but better than the XBox - they both actually have quite similar styling:
Sony says that they are leaving it up to publishers on how to handle used games and that's largely what Microsoft says too but Microsoft has a more structured approach. If it allows developers/publishers to hit lower launch prices, it will be a big help. The success of each will partly depend on their exclusives. 3rd party devs haven't had nice things to say about the Wii U:
Sony and Microsoft have secured some good exclusive IP e.g Quantum Break on the XBox but there's only a handful of titles. PS4 can at least play PS3 games via streaming, XBone might have no backwards compatibility.
I think people are tired of having to pay $300-500 plus $40-60/game these days. It's quite a lot of money and you don't get much out of the investment. I think controllers for iOS will make a big dent with more AAA titles. An iPad Mini starts at $329 and bigger titles are $5-15. They just announced a Deus Ex title, which will work so much better with a controller. The iPad Mini can be plugged into a TV. I think the compute power of the main consoles has something to offer but the roadmap of iOS devices will get there so the console strategy is wrong for the long term. Apple will sell a ton of hardware in the mean-time and customers are already used to no used games on it because the prices are low.
Xbox One has killed itself. Absolutely everything about the device is WRONG, and the feeble games won't save it. Playstation will obviously do second best of this generation. WiiU will, of course, be first.
Really? WiiU sales are horrible, EA just recently dropped support for it. Granted in house Mario and Zelda titles will give it a slight push, but I will be greatly surprised if it comes even remotely close to original Wii success. They released U first but have basically failed to establish beachead, and failed badly.
Especially with current price which offers what is basically last-gen hardware not much cheaper than incoming PS4. I just cannot see that appetising at all. Even Mario is not that almighty.
Really? WiiU sales are horrible, EA just recently dropped support for it. Granted in house Mario and Zelda titles will give it a slight push, but I will be greatly surprised if it comes even remotely close to original Wii success. They released U first but have basically failed to establish beachead, and failed badly.
Especially with current price which offers what is basically last-gen hardware not much cheaper than incoming PS4. I just cannot see that appetising at all. Even Mario is not that almighty.
He could of course been nearly right by saying "3DS" would win instead. I do believe Nintendo's Wii this time is the 3DS, but it is certainly not likely to be the Wii U. That fact is, Nintendo has no real challenger in the handheld space currently, other than the iPhone and other mobile phones.
Don't let Tallest bait you and argue over Nintendo or video games. He's trolling you, whether he will admit it or not.
It's Apple; they wouldn't do a package. This would be $40-$60 extra.
Well, I was mainly saying NEVER with iPhone but ever so slight maybe with iPod Touch. I just don't like to say never, but I'm about as close to "never" as you can get without admitting it.
GOOD. Screw EA; they're probably the worst developer out there.
Especially with current price which offers what is basically last-gen hardware not much cheaper than incoming PS4. I just cannot see that appetising at all. Even Mario is not that almighty.
Funny. That's exactly what they said when the Wii was released.
Don't let Tallest bait you and argue over Nintendo or video games. He's trolling you, whether he will admit it or not.
Probably because I'm not. How's stop lying sound? People buy Nintendo for experience, both in the game and with the system, and the other guys for graphics. And now no one is going to buy the Xbox.
I just don't like to say never, but I'm about as close to "never" as you can get without admitting it.
I just can't recall a time when Apple bundled anything with anything. They used to ship a sleeve with the iPod nano, but it wasn't advertised (of course) and they stopped it after, what, the first two gens, I think.
People buy Nintendo for experience, both in the game and with the system, and the other guys for graphics.
I pretty much agree with all of that
Quote:
And now no one is going to buy the Xbox.
I am definitely NOT in the Xbox Ones corner, but I really think it is too early to start the death march. I'd say it is a really good chance of being a failure, but Microsoft is dumping wheel barrels of money on people for exclusives and special treatment.
Quote:
Probably because I'm not. How's stop lying sound?
I don't see how someone could look at the sales numbers the Wii U has and think it will win the console war this generation, so it sounds like you picking a fight to me, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe you base winning on something other than sales numbers. I do not believe you are entirely wrong about Nintendo winning. Nintendo very well could win this generation in sales, but it will be because of the 3DS, not the Wii U. Nintendo is the only console maker who can rest easy at this point as the 3DS is doing fantastic, so in that sense, they do win.
To be fair, I guess we really won't have a good idea of how the home console race will look until a year from now when everyone is in play. Nintendo could start moving Wii U now that Xbox One is really off on the wrong foot, but I am skeptical. Nintendo consistently dominates handheld sales, but its home consoles have ups and downs. Not from lack of innovation or "experience", but just like Apple, the experience has a niche. For Nintendo, that leads to ongoing success but not consistent sales of its non-handheld systems.
[quote name="rednival" url="/t/157999/apples-ios-developer-guide-hints-at-dedicated-mfi-game-controller#post_2345541"] ...I really think it is too early to start the death march.[/QUOTE]
Oh?
Mandatory online connection, mandatory check in every 24 hours (every hour for repurchased games), mandatory Kinect, mandatory Kinect facing users (you can't cover it; it won't work. It has to see your face), Kinect microphone always on, always listening, cannot lend games to anyone who hasn't been in your "friends" list for less than 30 days, you can only lend that game to them once, resold games require both the purchase fee for the game at the store and the full price of the game paid on your console to be able to play the game at all, you cannot do either of these at launch, zero backward compatibility, no hdd upgrades, mandatory game installation...
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
well, this is HUGE. standardized game control bluetooth API's will enable Logitech and the rest to offer snap-in controller frames for the iPod touch and the iPad Mini that could be used for any iPhone/iPad .... (blah blah blah, plastic game controller!)
It isn't "huge," at all.
iOS gaming has already passed plastic hand-held controllers by and left them in the dust on the side of the road. The majority of games on iOS work just fine without a controller and most work better or are specifically designed to take advantage of the touch platform not some old plastic hunk-o-junk from the 1990's. There is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one.
Get real. Move forward not back. Embrace the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryoncole
This would be the final nail in the Nintendo coffin. 3DS games cost way to much and my kids would be all over this!
This would not be a death sentence but it would be a real challenge to Nintendo. Handhelds are really Nintendo's strong point and are what keep making Nintendo a major force even when their home consoles are not selling well. I don't see Apple wiping that out with a gaming controller.
I could see Apple packaging this with an iPod touch, but not an iPhone. Even then, I am not sure Apple wants to take on consoles or gaming handhelds head-on as much as they just want to improve gaming on iOS devices. I think they're content competing with the gaming industry indirectly, the way they are now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Curious to those in the know- I assume this is one of the advantages of lightning vs 30-pin?
Really the capabilities to the lightning connector are only limited by speed, imagination and technology. It's basically like a USB/firewire port. If you can engineer the device, write the driver and can figure out how to make communicate with iOS, it is possible.
Apple can now expand the sorts of devices that will work with iOS simply through software updates.
So, yeah, that's an advantage.
Gazoobee
iOS gaming has already passed plastic hand-held controllers by and left them in the dust on the side of the road. The majority of games on iOS work just fine without a controller and most work better or are specifically designed to take advantage of the touch platform not some old plastic hunk-o-junk from the 1990's. There is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one.
Get real. Move forward not back. Embrace the future.
Easy there, killer. No one said this was going to be packaged with every iOS device. Apple is just standardizing a device category. No different than when they established accessory capabilities for classic iPods (30 pin connector defined pins for certain tasks) or added Smart Card support to OS X. It all enhances the ecosystem.
For what it's worth, I find it very difficult to play traditional platform games with touch. Shantae: Risky's Revenge will be re-downloaded if this controller becomes reality.
I can definitely see that, but not Nintendo's.
It's Apple; they wouldn't do a package. This would be $40-$60 extra.
Apple's future take on gaming is dependent on their future take on professional graphics overall.
If Mavericks doesn't support modern OpenGL, we can basically keep ignoring anyone who says they care about gaming.
Tallest Skil
If Mavericks doesn't support modern OpenGL, we can basically keep ignoring anyone who says they care about gaming.
I did see "OpenGL 4" in one of the keynote slides.
Here is the most detailed investigation I can find so far. Complete support for up to 4.1, and partial 4.2.
100% to 4.1; that is MUCH improved. Hopefully that will keep creeping up through the DPs.
There are two types that connect onto the device and one type that is a separate controller:
1. a clip-on controller with a d-pad, 4 buttons, pause and two shoulder buttons
2. a clip-on with all of (1) plus two analog sticks and two extra shoulder buttons
3. a standalone controller with all of (2) and multiple player lights
All buttons are pressure sensitive and all controls on all controllers have to feel the same way. Logitech and some other company have controllers coming out and prototypes are at WWDC. They demoed a new game from Crytek, which had really nice graphics as you'd expect. It was a tactical combat game and showed the use of combined controller and touch so you are looking down on a squad and moving with the physical controls but to send individual members to fight, you can tap and drag each soldier into position.
Not only is this a major boost to mobile gaming but that's another AAA developer on board. While the touch controls do work for a lot of games, they fall short in FPS games because you have to look and shoot with the same thumb. Games like Mass Effect are quite awkward to use. It will be interesting to see how it works with the iPad. I suspect the popular route there would be to either use an iPod with a case alongside it or just the standalone controllers. I doubt many people will make clip-on controllers for it.
I think they could have gotten away with just a bumper and shoulder buttons. The main issue wasn't the buttons so much as simultaneous inputs but this will appease people who prefer tactile buttons and thumb sticks.
I think they'd make a lot of money from their game franchises but from a long-term business point of view, they're probably better off controlling their own platform. I think they should have scrapped the idea of a traditional console and made a fast tablet - e.g WiiTab. They could have built it on a fork of Android. This would have allowed them to offer a whole load of other apps but they could run their own store with AAA titles and Indie titles and promote those. They could have had educational games, books and so on. It would have HDMI out and dock to the TV and when the TV needs to be used or they go in the car, they just undock the WiiTab and take it with them. While WiiPad might seem nicer at first, it definitely sounds like a sanitary product.
You sheep ought to enjoy this site, especially the section about everyone's favorite loser, the one and only, who cannot even afford iPhone5, Tallest Skil:
http://stuff-appletards-say.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
It isn't "huge," at all.
iOS gaming has already passed plastic hand-held controllers by and left them in the dust on the side of the road. The majority of games on iOS work just fine without a controller and most work better or are specifically designed to take advantage of the touch platform not some old plastic hunk-o-junk from the 1990's. There is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one.
Get real. Move forward not back. Embrace the future.
"there is pretty much nothing you can do with a plastic controller that you can't do without one."
that statement is absurd on its face.
I have always noticed a delay between my iPad and my tv when air playing games. Then again I have always hated the Wii for the exact same reason...
Virtual joysticks and buttons suck on action games. A lot.
Xbox One has killed itself. Absolutely everything about the device is WRONG, and the feeble games won't save it. Playstation will obviously do second best of this generation. WiiU will, of course, be first.
Sony made a funny video about the XBox One's game sharing. It went viral - has over 9m views in 3 days:
[VIDEO]
Their presentation at E3 had a lot of trying to do everything opposite to Microsoft. I think they've played it quite smart this time because they announced it first but kept all the details back until Microsoft spilled the beans and then made them look bad. They even undercut their price. The XBox One or XBone as it's being called, is $499 and the PS4 is $399. This is partly because the Kinect is bundled/required but Sony's motion detection camera (which looks identical) is optional with the PS4. The 32GB Wii U is $355 on Amazon.
The PS4 is not quite as cool looking as I'd hoped but better than the XBox - they both actually have quite similar styling:
Sony says that they are leaving it up to publishers on how to handle used games and that's largely what Microsoft says too but Microsoft has a more structured approach. If it allows developers/publishers to hit lower launch prices, it will be a big help. The success of each will partly depend on their exclusives. 3rd party devs haven't had nice things to say about the Wii U:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/05/17/ea-engineer-wii-u-is-quot-crap-quot-nintendo-is-quot-walking-dead-quot.aspx
Their sales have completely tanked:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20130424234044_Nintendo_Wii_U_Fails_to_Achieve_Targets_3_45_Million_Units_Sold_During_Launch_Window.html
and they put it down to lack of compelling software:
http://allthingsd.com/20130612/nintendos-iwata-blames-slow-wii-u-sales-on-software-gaps-says-mobile-isnt-impacting-industry/
Sony and Microsoft have secured some good exclusive IP e.g Quantum Break on the XBox but there's only a handful of titles. PS4 can at least play PS3 games via streaming, XBone might have no backwards compatibility.
I think people are tired of having to pay $300-500 plus $40-60/game these days. It's quite a lot of money and you don't get much out of the investment. I think controllers for iOS will make a big dent with more AAA titles. An iPad Mini starts at $329 and bigger titles are $5-15. They just announced a Deus Ex title, which will work so much better with a controller. The iPad Mini can be plugged into a TV. I think the compute power of the main consoles has something to offer but the roadmap of iOS devices will get there so the console strategy is wrong for the long term. Apple will sell a ton of hardware in the mean-time and customers are already used to no used games on it because the prices are low.
Really? WiiU sales are horrible, EA just recently dropped support for it. Granted in house Mario and Zelda titles will give it a slight push, but I will be greatly surprised if it comes even remotely close to original Wii success. They released U first but have basically failed to establish beachead, and failed badly.
Especially with current price which offers what is basically last-gen hardware not much cheaper than incoming PS4. I just cannot see that appetising at all. Even Mario is not that almighty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
Really? WiiU sales are horrible, EA just recently dropped support for it. Granted in house Mario and Zelda titles will give it a slight push, but I will be greatly surprised if it comes even remotely close to original Wii success. They released U first but have basically failed to establish beachead, and failed badly.
Especially with current price which offers what is basically last-gen hardware not much cheaper than incoming PS4. I just cannot see that appetising at all. Even Mario is not that almighty.
He could of course been nearly right by saying "3DS" would win instead. I do believe Nintendo's Wii this time is the 3DS, but it is certainly not likely to be the Wii U. That fact is, Nintendo has no real challenger in the handheld space currently, other than the iPhone and other mobile phones.
Don't let Tallest bait you and argue over Nintendo or video games. He's trolling you, whether he will admit it or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
It's Apple; they wouldn't do a package. This would be $40-$60 extra.
Well, I was mainly saying NEVER with iPhone but ever so slight maybe with iPod Touch. I just don't like to say never, but I'm about as close to "never" as you can get without admitting it.
Not recently.
GOOD. Screw EA; they're probably the worst developer out there.
Funny. That's exactly what they said when the Wii was released.
Probably because I'm not. How's stop lying sound? People buy Nintendo for experience, both in the game and with the system, and the other guys for graphics. And now no one is going to buy the Xbox.
I just can't recall a time when Apple bundled anything with anything. They used to ship a sleeve with the iPod nano, but it wasn't advertised (of course) and they stopped it after, what, the first two gens, I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
People buy Nintendo for experience, both in the game and with the system, and the other guys for graphics.
I pretty much agree with all of that
Quote:
And now no one is going to buy the Xbox.
I am definitely NOT in the Xbox Ones corner, but I really think it is too early to start the death march. I'd say it is a really good chance of being a failure, but Microsoft is dumping wheel barrels of money on people for exclusives and special treatment.
Quote:
Probably because I'm not. How's stop lying sound?
I don't see how someone could look at the sales numbers the Wii U has and think it will win the console war this generation, so it sounds like you picking a fight to me, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe you base winning on something other than sales numbers. I do not believe you are entirely wrong about Nintendo winning. Nintendo very well could win this generation in sales, but it will be because of the 3DS, not the Wii U. Nintendo is the only console maker who can rest easy at this point as the 3DS is doing fantastic, so in that sense, they do win.
To be fair, I guess we really won't have a good idea of how the home console race will look until a year from now when everyone is in play. Nintendo could start moving Wii U now that Xbox One is really off on the wrong foot, but I am skeptical. Nintendo consistently dominates handheld sales, but its home consoles have ups and downs. Not from lack of innovation or "experience", but just like Apple, the experience has a niche. For Nintendo, that leads to ongoing success but not consistent sales of its non-handheld systems.
...I really think it is too early to start the death march.[/QUOTE]
Oh?
Mandatory online connection, mandatory check in every 24 hours (every hour for repurchased games), mandatory Kinect, mandatory Kinect facing users (you can't cover it; it won't work. It has to see your face), Kinect microphone always on, always listening, cannot lend games to anyone who hasn't been in your "friends" list for less than 30 days, you can only lend that game to them once, resold games require both the purchase fee for the game at the store and the full price of the game paid on your console to be able to play the game at all, you cannot do either of these at launch, zero backward compatibility, no hdd upgrades, mandatory game installation...