Apple still wants to know where you are, users still want to play games, and maps work better with compasses.
Agreed. Again, I was playing the other side and pushing the "plastic iPhone" crowd to show me what would be removed to make it cheaper. Sorry if everyone is thinking I am advocating any of this
The exercise was to try and determine what would be removed to make it cheaper, if at all Apple would introduce such a product, which I still don't see. So what is currently in the iPhone that users who would buy a cheaper version, would not need that could be removed to make it cheaper?
And why would Apple do that? It is always better to sell fewer items at higher margin than more at less margin as you have to take into account the entire supply chain.
Don't believe me, but look at Apple's profit vs. Samsung's profit.
iOS is a platform.
Samsung are catching up on profit.
AGAIN, why would they, or anyone want to do that? Selling fewer at higher margins is always better than selling more at lower margins as you simply don't have to work as hard, and by that I mean you don't have to put as much through the supply chain where more issues could happen.
Would you rather sell 100 phones at $20 profit or 200 phones at $10?
And why would Apple do that? It is always better to sell fewer items at higher margin than more at less margin as you have to take into account the entire supply chain.
Don't believe me, but look at Apple's profit vs. Samsung's profit.
Maybe in NA and Europe. How well does that work in Asia?
Profit is profit when you are losing a huge, but not all by any means, chunk of the market to cut rate competitors. People want Apple phones. A cheaper but still high quality version will satisfy a huge portion of the Chinese population.
... and I'm not talking dirt cheap. Apple doesn't compete in that arena.
Where is Samsung catching up on profit? Did they lower their quality again, raise their prices, or through volume decrease their component cost?
Tim at WWDC sated (again) that Apple is not about volume, but user experience.
So next argument.
Samsung is catching up in profit in all reports on profit share since last year. Google it.
Tim Cook is not going to announce new products - his defensive answer is typical of a non-response when apple is questioned about new products. See the 7 inch iPad ( and we got the exact same arguments last year when iPad mini components were being seen).
Lastly Apple do care about market share when they are winning market share, all conference calls mention the iPod percentage of music player sakes and they used to mention the iPad percentage of tablet sales. They mentioned mobile market share in the conference and said that iOS 6 is installed on more devices than any one Android system. This was an indication of concern about platform - which developers care about.
Every company which saturates a market moves onto the next. This may or may not cannibalise their own sales but as they also say - and show with lower priced devices like the mini and the touch - they prefer to cannibalise themselves.
Agreed. Again, I was playing the other side and pushing the "plastic iPhone" crowd to show me what would be removed to make it cheaper. Sorry if everyone is thinking I am advocating any of this
I agree that simply making the phone plastic won't do anything for the price.
But, I would assume if a cheaper iPhone were to happen it wouldn't be that much cheaper than Apple's current handsets. I could see a device akin to the 4S sold for $399. That's only $50 less than the 4S would be sold for anyway. Apple could figure out a way to assemble the new handset that's easier and cheaper than the 4/4S currently are, and that would help them retain their margins or possible even grow them. In order to avoid cannibalization with the 5/5S, Apple can disable some of iOS 7's graphical elements as they are going to do with the iPhone 4, and use a smaller 5MP camera as well as limit the device to 8GB of storage. With less onboard storage Apple could convince more people to utilize the benefits of iCloud and iTunes Radio.
With all that said, I don't see a sub-$300 from Apple anytime soon.
I agree that simply making the phone plastic won't do anything for the price.
But, I would assume if a cheaper iPhone were to happen it wouldn't be that much cheaper than Apple's current handsets. I could see a device akin to the 4S sold for $399. That's only $50 less than the 4S would be sold for anyway. Apple could figure out a way to assemble the new handset that's easier and cheaper than the 4/4S currently are, and that would help them retain their margins or possible even grow them. In order to avoid cannibalization with the 5/5S, Apple can disable some of iOS 7's graphical elements as they are going to do with the iPhone 4, and use a smaller 5MP camera as well as limit the device to 8GB of storage. With less onboard storage Apple could convince more people to utilize the benefits of iCloud and iTunes Radio.
With all that said, I don't see a sub-$300 from Apple anytime soon.
They could do all that, remove the pHone chips as well and then sell an iPod touch for $229. Or do you think those radio chips are hugely expensive? They aren't.
Every year the same arguments. In 2015 Apple won't be producing cheaper TVs despite the Android competition.
Show me where Apple has introduced a cheaper product to gain market share? Keep in mind the difference of form factor (different iPods and iPads) to meet size/function needs for different markets vs. simply making a cheaper version of the same.
Samsung is catching up in profit in all reports on profit share since last year. Google it.
Tim Cook is not going to announce new products - his defensive answer is typical of a non-response when apple is questioned about new products. See the 7 inch iPad ( and we got the exact same arguments last year when iPad mini components were being seen).
Lastly Apple do care about market share when they are winning market share, all conference calls mention the iPod percentage of music player sakes and they used to mention the iPad percentage of tablet sales. They mentioned mobile market share in the conference and said that iOS 6 is installed on more devices than any one Android system. This was an indication of concern about platform - which developers care about.
Every company which saturates a market moves onto the next. This may or may not cannibalise their own sales but as they also say - and show with lower priced devices like the mini and the touch - they prefer to cannibalise themselves.
Next argument.
Market share due to user experience and love for product is not the same as flooding a market with cheaper versions to gain that same share. The iPad mini is a new form factor to reach a different market (more portable) not to reduce price to gain market. Why don't people see that?
Samsung is catching up in profit in all reports on profit share since last year. Google it.
Tim Cook is not going to announce new products - his defensive answer is typical of a non-response when apple is questioned about new products. See the 7 inch iPad ( and we got the exact same arguments last year when iPad mini components were being seen).
Lastly Apple do care about market share when they are winning market share, all conference calls mention the iPod percentage of music player sakes and they used to mention the iPad percentage of tablet sales. They mentioned mobile market share in the conference and said that iOS 6 is installed on more devices than any one Android system. This was an indication of concern about platform - which developers care about.
Every company which saturates a market moves onto the next. This may or may not cannibalise their own sales but as they also say - and show with lower priced devices like the mini and the touch - they prefer to cannibalise themselves.
Next argument.
Apple doesn't play the market share game. Usage share is different. Devs don't care about cheap androids if they are only used as feature phones.
Macs are still 10% or so. If apple truly wanted market share, they would release cheap macs or the forsaken Netbook.
Again, I am not suggesting Apple won't introduce, or transform their existing base phone into a less expensive version as they did the iPod touch.
Quote:
I'm thinking iPod touch with 16GB storage at $399 for the new iPhone {something} and the iPhone 5 will be renamed simply iPhone?
What I am suggesting is that Apple won't release a cheaper, plastic $99 phone simply to gain market share as that phone, in my opinion, will greatly reduce the user experience, something Apple clearly is more concerned about than number of sales.
Apple also does not currently make any plastic products, with the exception of their Airport which I guess is some plastic composite.
Apple used to produce plastic iBooks. I am not sure what kind of argument that even is? There was a time when Apple didn't produce phones. Now they do. They do stuff they haven't before sometimes. In this case they have before.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Apple still wants to know where you are, users still want to play games, and maps work better with compasses.
Agreed. Again, I was playing the other side and pushing the "plastic iPhone" crowd to show me what would be removed to make it cheaper. Sorry if everyone is thinking I am advocating any of this
I would eat crow if Apple released a $99 off contract phone.
It's amazing how infrequently they can do that...
They can remove .....
Very high margins
iOS is a platform.
Samsung are catching up on profit.
Next argument
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
They can remove .....
Very high margins
AGAIN, why would they, or anyone want to do that? Selling fewer at higher margins is always better than selling more at lower margins as you simply don't have to work as hard, and by that I mean you don't have to put as much through the supply chain where more issues could happen.
Would you rather sell 100 phones at $20 profit or 200 phones at $10?
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
iOS is a platform.
Samsung are catching up on profit.
Next argument
Where is Samsung catching up on profit? Did they lower their quality again, raise their prices, or through volume decrease their component cost?
Tim at WWDC sated (again) that Apple is not about volume, but user experience.
So next argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
And why would Apple do that? It is always better to sell fewer items at higher margin than more at less margin as you have to take into account the entire supply chain.
Don't believe me, but look at Apple's profit vs. Samsung's profit.
Maybe in NA and Europe. How well does that work in Asia?
Profit is profit when you are losing a huge, but not all by any means, chunk of the market to cut rate competitors. People want Apple phones. A cheaper but still high quality version will satisfy a huge portion of the Chinese population.
... and I'm not talking dirt cheap. Apple doesn't compete in that arena.
Samsung is catching up in profit in all reports on profit share since last year. Google it.
Tim Cook is not going to announce new products - his defensive answer is typical of a non-response when apple is questioned about new products. See the 7 inch iPad ( and we got the exact same arguments last year when iPad mini components were being seen).
Lastly Apple do care about market share when they are winning market share, all conference calls mention the iPod percentage of music player sakes and they used to mention the iPad percentage of tablet sales. They mentioned mobile market share in the conference and said that iOS 6 is installed on more devices than any one Android system. This was an indication of concern about platform - which developers care about.
Every company which saturates a market moves onto the next. This may or may not cannibalise their own sales but as they also say - and show with lower priced devices like the mini and the touch - they prefer to cannibalise themselves.
Next argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
Agreed. Again, I was playing the other side and pushing the "plastic iPhone" crowd to show me what would be removed to make it cheaper. Sorry if everyone is thinking I am advocating any of this
I agree that simply making the phone plastic won't do anything for the price.
But, I would assume if a cheaper iPhone were to happen it wouldn't be that much cheaper than Apple's current handsets. I could see a device akin to the 4S sold for $399. That's only $50 less than the 4S would be sold for anyway. Apple could figure out a way to assemble the new handset that's easier and cheaper than the 4/4S currently are, and that would help them retain their margins or possible even grow them. In order to avoid cannibalization with the 5/5S, Apple can disable some of iOS 7's graphical elements as they are going to do with the iPhone 4, and use a smaller 5MP camera as well as limit the device to 8GB of storage. With less onboard storage Apple could convince more people to utilize the benefits of iCloud and iTunes Radio.
With all that said, I don't see a sub-$300 from Apple anytime soon.
They could do all that, remove the pHone chips as well and then sell an iPod touch for $229. Or do you think those radio chips are hugely expensive? They aren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Every year the same arguments. In 2015 Apple won't be producing cheaper TVs despite the Android competition.
Show me where Apple has introduced a cheaper product to gain market share? Keep in mind the difference of form factor (different iPods and iPads) to meet size/function needs for different markets vs. simply making a cheaper version of the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Samsung is catching up in profit in all reports on profit share since last year. Google it.
Tim Cook is not going to announce new products - his defensive answer is typical of a non-response when apple is questioned about new products. See the 7 inch iPad ( and we got the exact same arguments last year when iPad mini components were being seen).
Lastly Apple do care about market share when they are winning market share, all conference calls mention the iPod percentage of music player sakes and they used to mention the iPad percentage of tablet sales. They mentioned mobile market share in the conference and said that iOS 6 is installed on more devices than any one Android system. This was an indication of concern about platform - which developers care about.
Every company which saturates a market moves onto the next. This may or may not cannibalise their own sales but as they also say - and show with lower priced devices like the mini and the touch - they prefer to cannibalise themselves.
Next argument.
Market share due to user experience and love for product is not the same as flooding a market with cheaper versions to gain that same share. The iPad mini is a new form factor to reach a different market (more portable) not to reduce price to gain market. Why don't people see that?
Apple doesn't play the market share game. Usage share is different. Devs don't care about cheap androids if they are only used as feature phones.
Macs are still 10% or so. If apple truly wanted market share, they would release cheap macs or the forsaken Netbook.
Again, I am not suggesting Apple won't introduce, or transform their existing base phone into a less expensive version as they did the iPod touch.
Quote:
I'm thinking iPod touch with 16GB storage at $399 for the new iPhone {something} and the iPhone 5 will be renamed simply iPhone?
What I am suggesting is that Apple won't release a cheaper, plastic $99 phone simply to gain market share as that phone, in my opinion, will greatly reduce the user experience, something Apple clearly is more concerned about than number of sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Macs are still 10% or so. If apple truly wanted market share, they would release cheap macs or the forsaken Netbook.
Excellent point.
Apple also does not currently make any plastic products, with the exception of their Airport which I guess is some plastic composite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
It's amazing how infrequently they can do that...
Except of course the answer was given multiple times this thread. Reduced component costs, reduced margins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Apple doesn't play the market share game. Usage share is different. Devs don't care about cheap androids if they are only used as feature phones.
Macs are still 10% or so. If apple truly wanted market share, they would release cheap macs or the forsaken Netbook.
Apple tried the Mini. It didn't work because it was a decade too late. However it is most certainly a cheap PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
Excellent point.
Apple also does not currently make any plastic products, with the exception of their Airport which I guess is some plastic composite.
Apple used to produce plastic iBooks. I am not sure what kind of argument that even is? There was a time when Apple didn't produce phones. Now they do. They do stuff they haven't before sometimes. In this case they have before.
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