Ding-ding-ding-ding! We have a winner! Sammy doesn't actually say how many they sell, only how many they "ship". That said, they have been proven to blatantly deceive with these numbers for other products, so it's reasonable to assume they're lying about smartphone sales too.
I don't know how wide spread this phenomenon is but I've run into a lot of Android users that actually collect Android phones and they probably don't use them all.
...common sense says all these Android phones out there are just used for making phone calls and nothing else. Either that or Samsung isn't selling as much as they say they are.
Both of these are the truth, absolutely. I would venture that the former significantly more than the latter, but the latter still to the extent that when it's finally revealed to be happening will cause stocks to crash. Heck, we know they lied about sales/shipments because they were forced to release real numbers during the Apple trial, and never mind what other models they've stuffed channels with only to buy back.
Ooh. What if those old logic boards are just disassembled, given new cases, and popped into "new" model phones! That'd be the scoop of the year (or two).
Recently, when this topic came up a couple weeks ago, someone was saying that the browser detection by some firms is not using the right methodology. A lot of Apple fans were joking that Android users were changing their user agent string to look like iPhones. Well, as it turns out, they don't have to spoof the user agent string because Android does it for them automatically.
Notice that they claim to be Mobile Safari. So if sites are looking for that term, as I was, thinking I was targeting iPhones, etc. well it turns out that the Androids were being served up the same content unknowingly. So there could be something to the fact that Android is spoofing themselves as Mobile Safari that is throwing off the stats.
Uh no.
You just ignored the "Android 4.0.3" part of your own example, boldfaced the "Mobile Safari" part and made an unproven, specious argument that Chikita and the rest are so incompetent, they don't know how to read user-agent strings. In order for your claim to be true, every mobile browser stats collecting firm would have to make the same mistake. It would be all over the tech press, and a major embarrassment to Chikita. Not just a convenient theory to explain away iOS' mobile usage dominance by those who refuse to accept these numbers. If it's so easy for you and me to spot the correct part of the user- agent string, why do you claim Chikita counted wrong? Where's your proof that they did?
You just ignored the "Android 4.0.3" part of your own example, boldfaced the "Mobile Safari" part and made an unproven, specious argument that Chikita and the rest are so incompetent, they don't know how to read user-agent strings. In order for your claim to be true, every mobile browser stats collecting firm would have to make the same mistake. It would be all over the tech press, and a major embarrassment to Chikita. Not just a convenient theory to explain away iOS' mobile usage dominance by those who refuse to accept these numbers. If it's so easy for you and me to spot the correct part of the user- agent string, why do you claim Chikita counted wrong? Where's your proof that they did?
Sorry if you got the impression that I was justifying anything. That is why I posted my own verifiable stats as a comparison. I'm still struggling with how there could be such a discrepancy. (see post #15)
This is pretty convincing proof that Samsung doesn't actually sell phones and Android users barely browse the web. Apple isn't winning, they've won! Now what?
This is pretty convincing proof that Samsung doesn't actually sell phones and Android users barely browse the web. Apple isn't winning, they've won! Now what?
Win more, I guess. Cheap phone for people who don't use the Internet and don't actually want to buy phones, here they... come? :no:
Sammy doesn't actually say how many they sell, only how many they "ship". That said, they have been proven to blatantly deceive with these numbers for other products, so it's reasonable to assume they're lying about smartphone sales too
Actually they don't really report numbers shipped either - unless they're trying to brag about something - most market share statistics are guesstimates.
Recently, when this topic came up a couple weeks ago, someone was saying that the browser detection by some firms is not using the right methodology. A lot of Apple fans were joking that Android users were changing their user agent string to look like iPhones. Well, as it turns out, they don't have to spoof the user agent string because Android does it for them automatically.
Notice that they claim to be Mobile Safari. So if sites are looking for that term, as I was, thinking I was targeting iPhones, etc. well it turns out that the Androids were being served up the same content unknowingly. So there could be something to the fact that Android is spoofing themselves as Mobile Safari that is throwing off the stats.
Well. I'd have to argue that since these statistics are based off ads (that generate money) their method for determining platform needs to be fairly accurate, so I doubt they're using the user agent string for it. For instance, could be using navigator.platform or even object detection (each platform may a have unique DOM object.)
Apple actually reports real numbers, not only certain hand picked numbers or analyst crap. No comparison.
Stuffing the channel is more likely to happen at launch, where a company claims "we sold XMillion in one day/week/month!" And analysts run with that, prorating it out for an entire year. Then sales drop like crazy the next quarter. That's what seems to have happened with the Galaxy Tab and now the Z10, amongst others.
What does "real numbers" mean? Don't get me wrong. I agree Apple is more transparent than Samsung. But most people are wrong about what they think Apple is reporting.
Regardless of what you think of Samsung's numbers, there has been no write down yet, and their profits have been rising.
Apple reports starting and ending channel inventory plus the units put into the channel. Samsung reports the units put into the channel. One is transparent and one is smoke. With Apples numbers I can determine how many units left the channel (99.99999999999999% of those are sales). With Samsung's numbers I can determine how many units they shipped into the channel.
We see again there is a claimed fall off of S4 sales after a claim of massive sales at launch. Samsung channel stuffs every launch. Maybe they are low on warehouse space, maybe they want to make sure there are plenty in the stores....
A write down really isn't necessary. The S4 is the only model Samsung gives any numbers on. The vast majority of their "smart" phones are feature phones running Android. That is why usage numbers are so low.
Notice that they claim to be Mobile Safari. So if sites are looking for that term, as I was, thinking I was targeting iPhones, etc. well it turns out that the Androids were being served up the same content unknowingly. So there could be something to the fact that Android is spoofing themselves as Mobile Safari that is throwing off the stats.
Nonsense. If there were any truth to this at all (and there is not), there wold not be any Android phones in the stats....
Apple reports starting and ending channel inventory plus the units put into the channel. Samsung reports the units put into the channel. One is transparent and one is smoke. With Apples numbers I can determine how many units left the channel (99.99999999999999% of those are sales). With Samsung's numbers I can determine how many units they shipped into the channel.
We see again there is a claimed fall off of S4 sales after a claim of massive sales at launch. Samsung channel stuffs every launch. Maybe they are low on warehouse space, maybe they want to make sure there are plenty in the stores....
A write down really isn't necessary. The S4 is the only model Samsung gives any numbers on. The vast majority of their "smart" phones are feature phones running Android. That is why usage numbers are so low.
Samsung doesn't even report those numbers either, unless its a chery picked set for a specific phone, like the S4. Even then, is it even an official statement, or just an "unnamed executive"?
All other numbers you here regarding shipment numbers are guesses by analysts, which compare these to actual numbers released by Apple to the SEC.
Regarding the coming S4 write downs... Maybe this is why Ive been seeing so many "buy the S4 and get a $50..." etc. commercials lately, odd for such a "great selling" new phone that was just launched.
Again, this is in Apple's Home turfs. I wonder what's the world wide usage.
Again Apple needs to focus on its International expansion.
Apple is hurting in less developed markets. But I'd say its more of an issue of the market growing faster than Apple can. This market share percentage is shrinking, while Apple isn't shedding users. The pie is just getting bigger. A lot of that is for cheaper phones, which make up the bulk of Samsung's sales.
These sorts of studies are usually based on ad impressions.
When my wife browses on her iPhone 5, she sees ads, because she uses Safari and she hasn't found (basically hasn't looked for) a plugin to block the ads.
When I browse on my Android phone, I don't see ads, because I use Chrome with the AdBlock extension.
I browse on my phone far more than she does (she uses the iPad, which I'm lucky to have any time with!).
The question: do these facts combined mean that, even though my phone browsing is probably 10x hers, our combined usage as tracked by these surveys based on ad impressions, would either only count her usage or make it look like we only use an Apple device?
The broader question: if a higher proportion of Android than Apple users block ads (and the prevalence of blocking extensions for the stock and Chrome browsers suggests that might be true), would that bias these surveys in Apple's favor?
T<span style="line-height:1.231;">hese sorts of studies are usually based on ad impressions. </span>
When my wife browses on her iPhone 5, she sees ads, because she uses Safari and she hasn't found (basically hasn't looked for) a plugin to block the ads.
When I browse on my Android phone, I don't see ads, because I use Chrome with the AdBlock extension.
I browse on my phone far more than she does (she uses the iPad, which I'm lucky to have any time with!).
The question: do these facts combined mean that, even though my phone browsing is probably 10x hers, our combined usage as tracked by these surveys based on ad impressions, would either only count her usage or make it look like we only use an Apple device?
The broader question: if a higher proportion of Android than Apple users block ads (and the prevalence of blocking extensions for the stock and Chrome browsers suggests that might be true), would that bias these surveys in Apple's favor?
To answer this, all you have to do is look at the tiny fraction of users using Chrome on Android (if is like 3% last I checked a couple of weeks ago) and estimate the fraction of those users install an ad blocker (actually very small) and see this source of error is very small.
Comments
Nonsense. Just go "outside." All you'll see are Samsung phones. /s
Gotta catch 'em all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Or maybe they're out living life and knocking up broads.
broads? You mean hookers getting viruses and diseases. /s
Both of these are the truth, absolutely. I would venture that the former significantly more than the latter, but the latter still to the extent that when it's finally revealed to be happening will cause stocks to crash. Heck, we know they lied about sales/shipments because they were forced to release real numbers during the Apple trial, and never mind what other models they've stuffed channels with only to buy back.
Ooh. What if those old logic boards are just disassembled, given new cases, and popped into "new" model phones! That'd be the scoop of the year (or two).
Beat me to it.
Uh no.
You just ignored the "Android 4.0.3" part of your own example, boldfaced the "Mobile Safari" part and made an unproven, specious argument that Chikita and the rest are so incompetent, they don't know how to read user-agent strings. In order for your claim to be true, every mobile browser stats collecting firm would have to make the same mistake. It would be all over the tech press, and a major embarrassment to Chikita. Not just a convenient theory to explain away iOS' mobile usage dominance by those who refuse to accept these numbers. If it's so easy for you and me to spot the correct part of the user- agent string, why do you claim Chikita counted wrong? Where's your proof that they did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Uh no.
You just ignored the "Android 4.0.3" part of your own example, boldfaced the "Mobile Safari" part and made an unproven, specious argument that Chikita and the rest are so incompetent, they don't know how to read user-agent strings. In order for your claim to be true, every mobile browser stats collecting firm would have to make the same mistake. It would be all over the tech press, and a major embarrassment to Chikita. Not just a convenient theory to explain away iOS' mobile usage dominance by those who refuse to accept these numbers. If it's so easy for you and me to spot the correct part of the user- agent string, why do you claim Chikita counted wrong? Where's your proof that they did?
Sorry if you got the impression that I was justifying anything. That is why I posted my own verifiable stats as a comparison. I'm still struggling with how there could be such a discrepancy. (see post #15)
This is pretty convincing proof that Samsung doesn't actually sell phones and Android users barely browse the web. Apple isn't winning, they've won! Now what?
Win more, I guess. Cheap phone for people who don't use the Internet and don't actually want to buy phones, here they... come? :no:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot
Sammy doesn't actually say how many they sell, only how many they "ship". That said, they have been proven to blatantly deceive with these numbers for other products, so it's reasonable to assume they're lying about smartphone sales too
Actually they don't really report numbers shipped either - unless they're trying to brag about something - most market share statistics are guesstimates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Recently, when this topic came up a couple weeks ago, someone was saying that the browser detection by some firms is not using the right methodology. A lot of Apple fans were joking that Android users were changing their user agent string to look like iPhones. Well, as it turns out, they don't have to spoof the user agent string because Android does it for them automatically.
Notice that they claim to be Mobile Safari. So if sites are looking for that term, as I was, thinking I was targeting iPhones, etc. well it turns out that the Androids were being served up the same content unknowingly. So there could be something to the fact that Android is spoofing themselves as Mobile Safari that is throwing off the stats.
Well. I'd have to argue that since these statistics are based off ads (that generate money) their method for determining platform needs to be fairly accurate, so I doubt they're using the user agent string for it. For instance, could be using navigator.platform or even object detection (each platform may a have unique DOM object.)
Those are definitely to busy to be browsing the web.
Apple reports starting and ending channel inventory plus the units put into the channel. Samsung reports the units put into the channel. One is transparent and one is smoke. With Apples numbers I can determine how many units left the channel (99.99999999999999% of those are sales). With Samsung's numbers I can determine how many units they shipped into the channel.
We see again there is a claimed fall off of S4 sales after a claim of massive sales at launch. Samsung channel stuffs every launch. Maybe they are low on warehouse space, maybe they want to make sure there are plenty in the stores....
A write down really isn't necessary. The S4 is the only model Samsung gives any numbers on. The vast majority of their "smart" phones are feature phones running Android. That is why usage numbers are so low.
Nonsense. If there were any truth to this at all (and there is not), there wold not be any Android phones in the stats....
Samsung doesn't even report those numbers either, unless its a chery picked set for a specific phone, like the S4. Even then, is it even an official statement, or just an "unnamed executive"?
All other numbers you here regarding shipment numbers are guesses by analysts, which compare these to actual numbers released by Apple to the SEC.
Regarding the coming S4 write downs... Maybe this is why Ive been seeing so many "buy the S4 and get a $50..." etc. commercials lately, odd for such a "great selling" new phone that was just launched.
Again Apple needs to focus on its International expansion.
Apple is hurting in less developed markets. But I'd say its more of an issue of the market growing faster than Apple can. This market share percentage is shrinking, while Apple isn't shedding users. The pie is just getting bigger. A lot of that is for cheaper phones, which make up the bulk of Samsung's sales.
Samsung has distribution in more countries too.
Here is worldwide usage of the iPhone 5 VS all 1080p phones from point of general availability.
Honest question.
Background story first.
These sorts of studies are usually based on ad impressions.
When my wife browses on her iPhone 5, she sees ads, because she uses Safari and she hasn't found (basically hasn't looked for) a plugin to block the ads.
When I browse on my Android phone, I don't see ads, because I use Chrome with the AdBlock extension.
I browse on my phone far more than she does (she uses the iPad, which I'm lucky to have any time with!).
The question: do these facts combined mean that, even though my phone browsing is probably 10x hers, our combined usage as tracked by these surveys based on ad impressions, would either only count her usage or make it look like we only use an Apple device?
The broader question: if a higher proportion of Android than Apple users block ads (and the prevalence of blocking extensions for the stock and Chrome browsers suggests that might be true), would that bias these surveys in Apple's favor?
To answer this, all you have to do is look at the tiny fraction of users using Chrome on Android (if is like 3% last I checked a couple of weeks ago) and estimate the fraction of those users install an ad blocker (actually very small) and see this source of error is very small.