I don't understand the whole point of market comparisons like this. It's meaningless.
The bottom line is SALES and continued SALES and customer satisfaction. Microsoft has been leading the way for a LONG time, but not any more. Apple are making money and money that will help them continue on for many years. Microsoft have been trying with products like Surface, but I doubt this will ever keep up with iPads.
There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.
Even now, iOS is being picked up as a standard OS for mobile computing, sure, there will always be alternatives, but it seems to be the way things are going. My only wish is that this SHOULD have happened with Mac OS years ago...
There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.
Actually, the opposite is probably more realistic. The reason XP is still around in such great numbers is that when patched and updated, it runs Office just fine and Adobe CS just fine, not to mention all the legacy custom applications for accounting and network management and Windows VPN/Open Directory. If XP was obsolete, corporate IT departments would be abandoning it but they are not. They like it. Many are moving to Win 7 because it is very much like XP and works well in their environment. Win 8 is probably not going to be very popular with corporate IT.
Apple fan boys are delusional if they think that Windows is becoming obsolete. Granted Microsoft has not been selling as many copies of their latest version as they want but that is partially due to the stability and ubiquitous nature of XP. They are in some sense a victim of their own success.
Sure there are many corporate users integrating iPads into their communication and browsing routine and Windows tablets are not likely to ever catch on, but it is not at the expense of Windows, it is just an increase in alternatives. No one is throwing out their desktop computer or notebook and going exclusively with iPad. At least not in the corporate world. I do know a number of lame corporate middle management types who can't use an iPad any better than they could use a regular computer but those people are just idiots. Technically competent users will not toss out their regular computer and turn exclusively to an iPad. No way. iPad just doesn't match up because it doesn't run Office or Acrobat Pro, the two main tools for corporations and it doesn't print to large networked enterprise multi-function printers.
I have no dog in this race though. I have been using Mac almost exclusively ever since they came out and although on rare occasions I need to use Windows, I have mostly been coexisting for decades in a Windows based environment using only Macs. I by no means depend on Windows like I do OS X and the only other OS I run in any significant number is Linux for my servers. I'm just making observations based on a close working relationship with a few typical large global corporations that are pretty much 100% Windows, at least for the workers in the cubicles. If they are on the road then iPads make sense but mostly just for trivial messaging not really that much use for important document creation.
As a contractor for a major financial firm in CA, I saw one Android (I believe) tablet, while everyone else had iPads. when we did QA it was only on iPads
I am not denying popularity of iPad, it is perfectly obvious.
But previous poster stated that "the iPad is the ONLY approved tablet for the U.S. government going forward". I'd be curious to see that article, if it exists. Considering that Windows is dominant OS among government institutions, I'm finding it hard to believe that Windows tablets are not approved in the climate where Windows desktops and laptops are majority, and Windows infrastructure and services are de facto standard... especially business tablets with docking options, TPM and other business-friendly features.
I think this OS debate is "mute" for a number of reasons.
[LIST] [*] 1) for all OS X versions, you "must*" own a Mac; [*] 2) for OS X AND Windows XP, many enterprise, corporate, scientific and research instutions have specialized software, or software that will never see updates that will work efficiently on any new OS. Basically, those users are stuck using old OS versions. I have a number of clients in this situation with OS X 10.6 (Rosetta apps). [*] 3) from what I can determine on both platforms, other than game titles, the Mac dev community is becoming not only larger, but coming out with more polished apps than what is available on Windows. The Windows dev community has largely stagnated, other than those dev'ing for enterprise/research/scientific apps. [*] 4) Office apps and old Office versions being "good enough", or a specific office/industry workflow not needing any of the new bells and whistles to financially justify (ROI) an upgrade. That type of scenario does not make or even contribute to the Windows platform going forward... so why cater to them? [/LIST]
Going back to point 1, to make this a fair comparison, I think it would be interesting to see:
[LIST] [*] 1) a breakdown of the individual OEMs sales to Macs; [*] 2) what is the install(ation) base across an OEM's product line; [*] 3) and how much recurring revenue an OEM has seen based on that installed user base. [/LIST]
All metrics point to Apple having the lead with all of the above considered... AND most importantly... a far brighter future than most analysts give them credit for these days.
HP and Dell do not want to continue selling consumer PCs for a very good reason me thinks.... :smokey:
* I'm not forgetting "Hackintosh". But I really don't think it's relevant.
A link would be nice. Quick googling for "US government approved tablet" shows links with RIM's PlayBook, something called Samsung Knox (?!?)... but nothing to point out exclusivity you are talking about.
In addition, since most government agencies are Microsoft licensees... do you really think that Windows tablets will not leak significantly into official circles? All those business oriented tablets that have started emerging in the last 6 months or so, like ThinkPad Tablet 2, HP ElitePad 900..?
Looking at the interest they are generating among our customers, I'd really be surprised if that does not happen.
I don't know about Government agencies but I can tell you that banks and trading companies are buying a lot of Thinkpad Tablet 2's. We use them as hand held trading devices, you will find a lot of them on trading floors such as the CBOE, LSE and NYSE.
Tim Cook mentioned that Apple has 72 Million users in the install base. So if Microsoft sold 100 Million copies...
One small problem: Microsoft said they sold 100 Million copies of an OS license that includes "downgrade rights", which in turn means that even if their numbers were accurate (most of those "100 Million" were bulk OEM and SA/EA keys BTW), it makes zero mention of how those keys were put to use as Windows 8 installs, Windows 7, XP, or what.
You see, to Microsoft, they all count as W8 sales, but in practice, they could end up being anything, going back to Windows 2000.
I don't know about Government agencies but I can tell you that banks and trading companies are buying a lot of Thinkpad Tablet 2's. We use them as hand held trading devices, you will find a lot of them on trading floors such as the CBOE, LSE and NYSE.
Given that there's no probably specialized app per se for trading on the floor, I guess they're pretty much stuck with using what they have to.
There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.
Nah, it means that there will be an increasing need for tech. support companies who specialize in maintaining legacy systems. Mission-critical computers will fail and need to be replaced with something that runs the validated, existing software for which there is no replacement. Believe it or not, not every computer is used to run MS Office. The ancient systems (from the 1950s) running our air-traffic control systems comes to mind.
I don't think one can accurately determine the "install base" just from web usage statistics, especially for Windows. I would imagine that many of the older Windows machines are stuck doing mundane business or industrial tasks without the Internet. Things that come to mind are accounting employees who are not allowed to connect to the Internet. Industrial machinery control systems, weapons control systems, public utility control systems, transit control systems. Even if these older XP machines, or even newer ones, used in this manner are connecting to Internet they are not visiting sites with advertising that analysis companies use to calculate usage statistics.
An excellent point. And yet, the XP system running my scientific instrument continues to badger me to download drivers and run a music player wizard whenever I plug in a new USB storage device--despite the fact that it will never be allowed on the Interweb. Another Windows 7 Pro device is constantly warning me about installing virus updates, even though it will never be allowed on the LAN. Such a nuisance! These computers have one job: to run the instrument without interruption. The last thing I want is for it to pause my experimental run while it spontaneously decides to download yet another upgrade to some irrelevant Adobe nagware.
An excellent point. And yet, the XP system running my scientific instrument continues to badger me to download drivers and run a music player wizard whenever I plug in a new USB storage device--despite the fact that it will never be allowed on the Interweb. Another Windows 7 Pro device is constantly warning me about installing virus updates, even though it will never be allowed on the LAN. Such a nuisance! These computers have one job: to run the instrument without interruption. The last thing I want is for it to pause my experimental run while it spontaneously decides to download yet another upgrade to some irrelevant Adobe nagware.
You do know that you can turn off all system messages. A simple and obvious Google search, "turn off system messages in Windows" would have solved your problem in minutes. I guess it's just easier to leave your nuisances alone and then complain about them on boards.
Here's a hint, Action Center. There's even a nice GUI that allows you to select which messages that you want to receive. This isn't a Windows problem, it's your inability to spend time in learning how to use a system that you apparently need.
Sorry for being so abrupt but you have to admit that this is a pretty silly complaint. It would be like complaining to your waiter that your salad came with a cherry tomato when you could have just as easily taken off the tomato.
Windows 8.1 beta (?) was just released to developers. Are you a developer for Windows 8?. If not, I would like know how did you got it?. Or this is just you talking trash?
To be fair, anyone who signed up for the Windows 8 previews received an invitation to sign up for 8.1 testing, though they have since closed it to new testers.
Here's a hint, Action Center. There's even a nice GUI that allows you to select which messages that you want to receive. This isn't a Windows problem, it's your inability to spend time in learning how to use a system that you apparently need.
And the MSFT fanboy choir says that Linux is oh-so-hard to work on...
Here's a clue: One shouldn't have to spend an inordinate amount of time de-nagging an OS. It's a waste of time and productivity.
Comments
The bottom line is SALES and continued SALES and customer satisfaction.
Microsoft has been leading the way for a LONG time, but not any more. Apple are making money and money that will help them continue on for many years.
Microsoft have been trying with products like Surface, but I doubt this will ever keep up with iPads.
There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.
Even now, iOS is being picked up as a standard OS for mobile computing, sure, there will always be alternatives, but it seems to be the way things are going. My only wish is that this SHOULD have happened with Mac OS years ago...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle
There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.
Actually, the opposite is probably more realistic. The reason XP is still around in such great numbers is that when patched and updated, it runs Office just fine and Adobe CS just fine, not to mention all the legacy custom applications for accounting and network management and Windows VPN/Open Directory. If XP was obsolete, corporate IT departments would be abandoning it but they are not. They like it. Many are moving to Win 7 because it is very much like XP and works well in their environment. Win 8 is probably not going to be very popular with corporate IT.
Apple fan boys are delusional if they think that Windows is becoming obsolete. Granted Microsoft has not been selling as many copies of their latest version as they want but that is partially due to the stability and ubiquitous nature of XP. They are in some sense a victim of their own success.
Sure there are many corporate users integrating iPads into their communication and browsing routine and Windows tablets are not likely to ever catch on, but it is not at the expense of Windows, it is just an increase in alternatives. No one is throwing out their desktop computer or notebook and going exclusively with iPad. At least not in the corporate world. I do know a number of lame corporate middle management types who can't use an iPad any better than they could use a regular computer but those people are just idiots. Technically competent users will not toss out their regular computer and turn exclusively to an iPad. No way. iPad just doesn't match up because it doesn't run Office or Acrobat Pro, the two main tools for corporations and it doesn't print to large networked enterprise multi-function printers.
I have no dog in this race though. I have been using Mac almost exclusively ever since they came out and although on rare occasions I need to use Windows, I have mostly been coexisting for decades in a Windows based environment using only Macs. I by no means depend on Windows like I do OS X and the only other OS I run in any significant number is Linux for my servers. I'm just making observations based on a close working relationship with a few typical large global corporations that are pretty much 100% Windows, at least for the workers in the cubicles. If they are on the road then iPads make sense but mostly just for trivial messaging not really that much use for important document creation.
I am not denying popularity of iPad, it is perfectly obvious.
But previous poster stated that "the iPad is the ONLY approved tablet for the U.S. government going forward". I'd be curious to see that article, if it exists. Considering that Windows is dominant OS among government institutions, I'm finding it hard to believe that Windows tablets are not approved in the climate where Windows desktops and laptops are majority, and Windows infrastructure and services are de facto standard... especially business tablets with docking options, TPM and other business-friendly features.
[LIST]
[*] 1) for all OS X versions, you "must*" own a Mac;
[*] 2) for OS X AND Windows XP, many enterprise, corporate, scientific and research instutions have specialized software, or software that will never see updates that will work efficiently on any new OS. Basically, those users are stuck using old OS versions. I have a number of clients in this situation with OS X 10.6 (Rosetta apps).
[*] 3) from what I can determine on both platforms, other than game titles, the Mac dev community is becoming not only larger, but coming out with more polished apps than what is available on Windows. The Windows dev community has largely stagnated, other than those dev'ing for enterprise/research/scientific apps.
[*] 4) Office apps and old Office versions being "good enough", or a specific office/industry workflow not needing any of the new bells and whistles to financially justify (ROI) an upgrade. That type of scenario does not make or even contribute to the Windows platform going forward... so why cater to them?
[/LIST]
Going back to point 1, to make this a fair comparison, I think it would be interesting to see:
[LIST]
[*] 1) a breakdown of the individual OEMs sales to Macs;
[*] 2) what is the install(ation) base across an OEM's product line;
[*] 3) and how much recurring revenue an OEM has seen based on that installed user base.
[/LIST]
All metrics point to Apple having the lead with all of the above considered... AND most importantly... a far brighter future than most analysts give them credit for these days.
HP and Dell do not want to continue selling consumer PCs for a very good reason me thinks.... :smokey:
* I'm not forgetting "Hackintosh". But I really don't think it's relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
It's not separating 8 from 8.1.
Also, how many Macs are running a 12 year old OS?
My Powerbook 100 has Mac OS 7.5.5 and I still use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
A link would be nice. Quick googling for "US government approved tablet" shows links with RIM's PlayBook, something called Samsung Knox (?!?)... but nothing to point out exclusivity you are talking about.
In addition, since most government agencies are Microsoft licensees... do you really think that Windows tablets will not leak significantly into official circles? All those business oriented tablets that have started emerging in the last 6 months or so, like ThinkPad Tablet 2, HP ElitePad 900..?
Looking at the interest they are generating among our customers, I'd really be surprised if that does not happen.
I don't know about Government agencies but I can tell you that banks and trading companies are buying a lot of Thinkpad Tablet 2's. We use them as hand held trading devices, you will find a lot of them on trading floors such as the CBOE, LSE and NYSE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Someone isn't using accurate numbers.
Tim Cook mentioned that Apple has 72 Million users in the install base. So if Microsoft sold 100 Million copies...
One small problem: Microsoft said they sold 100 Million copies of an OS license that includes "downgrade rights", which in turn means that even if their numbers were accurate (most of those "100 Million" were bulk OEM and SA/EA keys BTW), it makes zero mention of how those keys were put to use as Windows 8 installs, Windows 7, XP, or what.
You see, to Microsoft, they all count as W8 sales, but in practice, they could end up being anything, going back to Windows 2000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
I don't know about Government agencies but I can tell you that banks and trading companies are buying a lot of Thinkpad Tablet 2's. We use them as hand held trading devices, you will find a lot of them on trading floors such as the CBOE, LSE and NYSE.
Given that there's no probably specialized app per se for trading on the floor, I guess they're pretty much stuck with using what they have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle
There will come a day (not too far away) that there will be no way to run XP on newer processors and these processors will be the only ones that will be useful - everything else will eventually end up being pulled apart for PC hobbyist to play with. This means that most "build it yourself" PC companies will no longer exist, this means LESS Windows XP, Vista etc, which will change the global computing environment forever.
Nah, it means that there will be an increasing need for tech. support companies who specialize in maintaining legacy systems. Mission-critical computers will fail and need to be replaced with something that runs the validated, existing software for which there is no replacement. Believe it or not, not every computer is used to run MS Office. The ancient systems (from the 1950s) running our air-traffic control systems comes to mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I don't think one can accurately determine the "install base" just from web usage statistics, especially for Windows. I would imagine that many of the older Windows machines are stuck doing mundane business or industrial tasks without the Internet. Things that come to mind are accounting employees who are not allowed to connect to the Internet. Industrial machinery control systems, weapons control systems, public utility control systems, transit control systems. Even if these older XP machines, or even newer ones, used in this manner are connecting to Internet they are not visiting sites with advertising that analysis companies use to calculate usage statistics.
An excellent point. And yet, the XP system running my scientific instrument continues to badger me to download drivers and run a music player wizard whenever I plug in a new USB storage device--despite the fact that it will never be allowed on the Interweb. Another Windows 7 Pro device is constantly warning me about installing virus updates, even though it will never be allowed on the LAN. Such a nuisance! These computers have one job: to run the instrument without interruption. The last thing I want is for it to pause my experimental run while it spontaneously decides to download yet another upgrade to some irrelevant Adobe nagware.
You do know that you can turn off all system messages. A simple and obvious Google search, "turn off system messages in Windows" would have solved your problem in minutes. I guess it's just easier to leave your nuisances alone and then complain about them on boards.
Here's a hint, Action Center. There's even a nice GUI that allows you to select which messages that you want to receive. This isn't a Windows problem, it's your inability to spend time in learning how to use a system that you apparently need.
Sorry for being so abrupt but you have to admit that this is a pretty silly complaint. It would be like complaining to your waiter that your salad came with a cherry tomato when you could have just as easily taken off the tomato.
To be fair, anyone who signed up for the Windows 8 previews received an invitation to sign up for 8.1 testing, though they have since closed it to new testers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
Here's a hint, Action Center. There's even a nice GUI that allows you to select which messages that you want to receive. This isn't a Windows problem, it's your inability to spend time in learning how to use a system that you apparently need.
And the MSFT fanboy choir says that Linux is oh-so-hard to work on...
Here's a clue: One shouldn't have to spend an inordinate amount of time de-nagging an OS. It's a waste of time and productivity.