Editorial: Apple, Google and the failure of Android's open

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  • Reply 181 of 317
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RobM View Post



    OT rant - thanks for intro drblank !



    What gets my goat is the 4wd market with these car companies - hell, you're off road out the back of nowhere and your vehicle breaks down. You can't diagnose it - you are screwed !

    There are places here in NZ and all over the globe that are going to cost you a freakn fortune just to get your computer driven pos to a garage - let alone an authorised service centre. They FAIL in this regard, totally.



    Fwiw - I'm still locked in 1992 and prior for this type of vehicle. At least I can identify all the engine parts and have been able to get going even if somewhat crippled,



    Really, really need an aftermarket diagnostic tool for the newer vehicles.



    OT rant finished.


    Here's a place that sells them for BMW, Land Rover, Jaguar, Mercedes, Porsche, VAG (??), Volvo, PSA/RENAULT, Rolls Royce.


     


    http://www.autologic.us/en-us/pages/homeproducts


     


    NEVER MIND. I just looked up the price for the Mercedes Benz version.  $12K.  Oops.  They do everything, but these are probably overkill.  Unless you got the bucks and want the best.  Heck, if someone pays $200K for a Mercedes, whats another $12K for the ultimate diagnostics tool?


     


     


    Here is a place that sells all kinds of stuff.  They have over 2000 professional diagnostic tools.


     


    http://www.aliexpress.com  It's the same as an Amazon, only different.  They have an automotive section that seems like it might be better than Amazon.  Just a suggestion.  Good luck, i hope you get something that'll work.

  • Reply 182 of 317
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    drblank wrote: »
    You mean OPEN LOOP architecture. That's what they end up being.  I honestly think BMTroubleYou doesn't know what they are doing when it comes to this end of the business, most car mfg don't.  I never really thought cars were that sophisticated when it came to integrating computer technology for their audio/video/smartphone/tablet. They are car mfg, not computer/audio/video companies.  It's not their core competency.  When BMTroubleYou first came out with their iDrive technology, I remember a car magazine was not that impressed with it.  I think they need more help in this area to be completely honest.  Plus they charge a bloody fortune for audio/video/car equipment and it's not that good considering the amount of money they charge. They are trying to get better.

    Yeah, both my husband and I drive BMW's and though the iDrive system has gotten better over the years it still sucks. Mercedes isn't any better with their system either. I would like to see a in dash iPad solution of some sort.
  • Reply 183 of 317
    robmrobm Posts: 1,068member
    [INDENT][/INDENT]oh wow - thanks guys ! Really, I appreciate it.

    Thats the trouble when you're stuck in the 90s autowise lol - never get out of the rut.
    Cheers, r
  • Reply 184 of 317
    theanontheanon Posts: 2member


    Double post

  • Reply 185 of 317
    theanontheanon Posts: 2member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post





    Okay, I'll ask. You answer with specific projects without which these things could not have been made.


    LLVM and GCC. Praise the lord.

  • Reply 186 of 317
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    Yeah, both my husband and I drive BMW's and though the iDrive system has gotten better over the years it still sucks. Mercedes isn't any better with their system either. I would like to see a in dash iPad solution of some sort.


    Do you know who makes their Nav consoles? Becker.  I'll bet Apple could easily develop a customized iPad mini that could be permanently mounted in the car that does the same thing and a LOT cheaper since Apple sells their devices by the tens of millions whereas they sell cars in the hundreds of thousands.   They would just have to get rid of the home button, etc. and probably make is so much better.  Just an idea.


     


    There are the auto tweakers that putting iPad mini in car dashes and the back of headrests.   They started doing that probably within the first month the iPad mini came out. It's the perfect size for a car dash, they would probably change the GUI for cars. If Apple did it, they would redesign it specifically for cars and have maybe an interface similar to the Apple TV rather than looking like a OS X or IOS GUI with the dock.  That's what I would do if I were Apple.  They would probably have to get rid of the internal battery and maybe implement TB, USB, etc. and get the car mfg so it can interface with everything in the car. That would be the biggest aspect, but the majority of the guts Apple already gets.  It would be interesting, but it might take a while to do it, but once it's done, it would probably be cheaper for Apple to do a decent quality job than Becker.  

  • Reply 187 of 317
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    drblank wrote: »
    Do you know who makes their Nav consoles? Becker.  I'll bet Apple could easily develop a customized iPad mini that could be permanently mounted in the car that does the same thing and a LOT cheaper since Apple sells their devices by the tens of millions whereas they sell cars in the hundreds of thousands.   They would just have to get rid of the home button, etc. and probably make is so much better.  Just an idea.

    There are the auto tweakers that putting iPad mini in car dashes and the back of headrests.   They started doing that probably within the first month the iPad mini came out. It's the perfect size for a car dash, they would probably change the GUI for cars. If Apple did it, they would redesign it specifically for cars and have maybe an interface similar to the Apple TV rather than looking like a OS X or IOS GUI with the dock.  That's what I would do if I were Apple.  They would probably have to get rid of the internal battery and maybe implement TB, USB, etc. and get the car mfg so it can interface with everything in the car. That would be the biggest aspect, but the majority of the guts Apple already gets.  It would be interesting, but it might take a while to do it, but once it's done, it would probably be cheaper for Apple to do a decent quality job than Becker.  

    This is neat, a guy installed an iPod in his 04' Porshe 996, http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996/301123-ipad-mini-dash-install-996-mkii.html.

    1000
  • Reply 188 of 317
    bappobappo Posts: 24member
    With all the respect due to the people writing this great site, this article is so full of misunderstanding and misinformation that is at the limit of the troll.

    Starting from what is open and what is open source, that two very different and orthogonal concepts.
    Continuing to what is the role of open source in the IT industry, and of the different business models
    behind.

    Writing a complete answer would require a book, but i'll give some indication.

    1) iOs (and MacOs) are technogically as open and open source based than Android; iOs is based on a open source kernel (Mach FreeBSD) as much as Android (Linux). iOS embrace all the pertinent open technologies (OpenGL, network protocols, languages and so on), and so does Android. iOS have a proprietary, closed layer implementing the real added value of the project.

    Well, you'll be surprised to know that Android make the same: the fact that the Android code is open source does not imply that is not proprietary; Android, and its evolution, is controlled by a single company, not a community, not a standard organisation. Sources are published later, once the product is finished, so industrially speaking the relationship between a Android OEM and Google is is exactly the same as between any OEM and any software publisher.

    2) To have an idea of the open source role, and its economical meaning, in the industry, take
    a look to the server side world. Make you homework, i do not have the time to say more.

    3) Mac OS, more than iOS, is very open and open source based system; it keep the philosophy of NeXT Step, it is still based on Unix, an open source version, and leverage the open source technical layers to produce a proprietary layer providing added value to the user; this is one of the best and most successful open source business model. Apple is also a significant contributor to important open source projects (CUPS, the printing subsystem, GCC and LLVM, Java OpenJDK, etc.).

    To get an idea, start your copy of XCode, choose About XCode, click on Acknowledgements and tale a look to the very long list of licences that apply to the various piece of technologies used; count how many of them are open source.
  • Reply 189 of 317


    buh!

  • Reply 190 of 317

    Quote:


    You know why Android is an exception?

    You know why it'll be successful?

    Because it is run by Google!

    A company that does not simply stack up cash but uses it to make the world a better place!

    It is a company that strives for innovation unlike Apple.

    I don't hate Apple because it is closed but because there are lower strides of innovation in the company. It looks only for profitability not a better world!

    Hardware fragmentation naturally occurs as the platform grows. Simply, look at Apple. How many idevices of different sizes and different hardware capacities does it have?

    If keeping closed is the only way to solve fragmentation of software. Then think again!

    Google will show you how to with rolling updates shortly!



     


    Bulshit. Google is in it for the money, they just can't get enough smart people to work for just money, you have to have to let them do cool stuff. Android and Glass are made to look like products, but they are not, they are harvesting machinery, advertisers are the customers, you are the product.

  • Reply 191 of 317
    nikiloknikilok Posts: 383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    Of course, iPhone owners just go about enjoying their devices without ever mocking Android.



    I think the root cause of the iOS vs Android all originates from the fact that Android wouldn't have been born, if not for iOS.


    Since Google just borrowed a number of iOS features, at the inception of Android, plus the fact that Steve Jobs declared "Thermo Nuclear War"  against Android,


    the War's been going on since then.


     


    Today Apple borrows features from every OS out there, like Google did at start.

  • Reply 192 of 317
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    bappo wrote: »
    With all the respect due to the people writing this great site, this article is so full of misunderstanding and misinformation that is at the limit of the troll.

    Starting from what is open and what is open source, that two very different and orthogonal concepts.
    Continuing to what is the role of open source in the IT industry, and of the different business models
    behind.

    Writing a complete answer would require a book, but i'll give some indication.

    1) iOs (and MacOs) are technogically as open and open source based than Android; iOs is based on a open source kernel (Mach FreeBSD) as much as Android (Linux). iOS embrace all the pertinent open technologies (OpenGL, network protocols, languages and so on), and so does Android. iOS have a proprietary, closed layer implementing the real added value of the project.

    Well, you'll be surprised to know that Android make the same: the fact that the Android code is open source does not imply that is not proprietary; Android, and its evolution, is controlled by a single company, not a community, not a standard organisation. Sources are published later, once the product is finished, so industrially speaking the relationship between a Android OEM and Google is is exactly the same as between any OEM and any software publisher.

    2) To have an idea of the open source role, and its economical meaning, in the industry, take
    a look to the server side world. Make you homework, i do not have the time to say more.

    3) Mac OS, more than iOS, is very open and open source based system; it keep the philosophy of NeXT Step, it is still based on Unix, an open source version, and leverage the open source technical layers to produce a proprietary layer providing added value to the user; this is one of the best and most successful open source business model. Apple is also a significant contributor to important open source projects (CUPS, the printing subsystem, GCC and LLVM, Java OpenJDK, etc.).

    To get an idea, start your copy of XCode, choose About XCode, click on Acknowledgements and tale a look to the very long list of licences that apply to the various piece of technologies used; count how many of them are open source.

    You're absolutely right and I'm sure anyone who posts a negative response towards open source either has no idea what exactly makes up the software that they use on a daily basis or as you put it, just trolling. Before I took over the programming department for trading applications at the bank I work for we were using closed source reporting tools that were an absolute nightmare to customize. Programmers were spending more time trying to get the darn things to produce information that was needed then actual results. We had so many meetings with these companies with them saying, "sure, no problem we can provide that" but never actually giving us what we actually wanted.

    There was a lot opposition to cancel these services because of fear of change but I finally got my way. Using nothing but a LAMP setup, Python and Perl, my programming team was able to design a custom solution that not only did exactly what we needed to do but provided easy to use web interfaces that everyone could use. Freeing up my programmers from all of the custom reports that once flooded our request box.

    This is just one example, it has gotten to the point where these technologies are not only a viable solution but a necessity to our survival. We all have budgets, time limits on projects and an expectation on the outcome. It doesn't matter what the task is, I would bet the lot against a closed source vs. open source programs anyday. The shear amount of code that is ripe for the picking is astronomical. It is so easy for a programmer to copy and paste a fantastic program together in the matter of hours. If you have an idea chances are some else has already programmed it. This isn't stealing, it's sharing, a community of people getting together to produce better software, faster.
  • Reply 193 of 317
    nikiloknikilok Posts: 383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sreeram View Post



    You know why Android is an exception?

    You know why it'll be successful?

    Because it is run by Google!

    A company that does not simply stack up cash but uses it to make the world a better place!

    It is a company that strives for innovation unlike Apple.

    I don't hate Apple because it is closed but because there are lower strides of innovation in the company. It looks only for profitability not a better world!

    Hardware fragmentation naturally occurs as the platform grows. Simply, look at Apple. How many idevices of different sizes and different hardware capacities does it have?

    If keeping closed is the only way to solve fragmentation of software. Then think again!

    Google will show you how to with rolling updates shortly!


    Ill talk of the top 4 reasons pointing out Android's short coming against iOS.


     


    1) Problem with Androids not just fragmentation, its the fact that the platforms a place flooded with malware.


    Once google figures out how to push updates across its many hardware providers that would help better this issue as well.


     


    2) Secondly how is it that you have no Android phone in the 4 inch category and as thin and powerful as the iPhone 5 ?


    I don't know but there aren't hardware manufactures doing the same size , with the same kind of processing capabilities, with the same weight to thickness factor.


     


    It's coz Android + the custom User Interface layer requires more hardware capabilities to perform the same as iOS !


     


    And to cover up that limitation, device manufactures come up with the " We got a 5 inch screen quote.


     


    3) Thirdly, you ever notice that most developers create software for iOS more than Android coz iOS is were developers can make money, because people actually buy applications from Apple's App Store.




    Fragmentation is one reason scaring developers away from Android. The fact that there are multiple stores and the hacker community would crack most of these games and make it available for free on alternative stores. End result being an Android user has options to get apps for free, which as a result throws app developers away. Why would I spend money to create an app for Android, when I am going to make a loss with it.


     


    Which is why most of the creative game developing companies put apps alone on iOS and not Android. Badland, Infinity Blade , Limbo and so many others take iOS as there primary source of sales. Granted they'll prolly make an Android version after they have made money with Apple's store few years down the line.


     


    4) Apple's Eco System ! Its connected and integrated so well. No other platform has the Connectivity that Apple has achieved.


     


    5) Too many fault points for failure. Android has a different set of implementations by pretty much every handset maker, and that by nature brings in more number of failure points in terms of security and usability. Coz every other handset manufacturer is doing what they think is best.


    With Apple, they do everything themselves !

  • Reply 194 of 317
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    nikilok wrote: »
    I think the root cause of the iOS vs Android all originates from the fact that Android wouldn't have been born, if not for iOS.
    Since Google just borrowed a number of iOS features, at the inception of Android, plus the fact that Steve Jobs declared "Thermo Nuclear War"  against Android,
    the War's been going on since then.

    Today Apple borrows features from every OS out there, like Google did at start.

    Android would have most definitely come to light as it was being produced at the same time as iOS. Would it look differently, absolutely, Google was sure that the way to go was using Blackberry's style of phone, I still prefer a hardware keyboard but that's a different story. Android defiantly copied Apple's GUI style but Apple also took the best ideas from what was being offered at the time and made them better. Nokia for instance was using grid style icons for years. Apple is still doing it, taking the best ideas like notifications for example and making them better. This isn't stealing but GUI evolution, it's a big reason why I think the patent system is in desperate need of an overhaul especially for software. I hate these lawsuits, who cares if you came up with a way to unlock your phone by sliding your finger across the screen first. It's a couple of hundred lines of code that I could reproduce in an afternoon. Was it creative, sure, the guy who did it 2 years before the iPhone in the Neonode N1m was very creative, did they patent it, no, he thought it was a cute feature that people might enjoy. Apple added a slider box, called it revolutionary, patented it and is now suing anyone recreating it. I hate this, more than I can possibly express.

    The review of the Neonode N1m if your interested.
  • Reply 195 of 317
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    This is neat, a guy installed an iPod in his 04' Porshe 996, http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996/301123-ipad-mini-dash-install-996-mkii.html.





    Take that Becker!!!!


     


    Becker is owned by Harmon and Harmon installs their audio systems to most of the European Car mfg.  I guess this was better.  I wonder if he can figure out how to play a racing game but instead of a fake car, he's driving his REAL car beating the computer cars on the same track..  Hmmm, That's a new gaming concept.


     


    Only if he gets into an accident, it's a REAL one.  That's REALITY gaming at another level.....   

  • Reply 196 of 317
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    drblank wrote: »
    Take that Becker!!!!

    Becker is owned by Harmon and Harmon installs their audio systems to most of the European Car mfg.  I guess this was better.  I wonder if he can figure out how to play a racing game but instead of a fake car, he's driving his REAL car beating the computer cars on the same track..  Hmmm, That's a new gaming concept.

    Only if he gets into an accident, it's a REAL one.  That's REALITY gaming at another level.....   

    Oh my gosh that would be so cool!
  • Reply 197 of 317
    mrrodriguezmrrodriguez Posts: 215member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


     


    Please explain how this makes any sense if you'd like a response to it.



    I've read a lot of your articles, and in one or two of them, you spoke about Android fans touting quick toggles as a good thing. However, you made the arguement that Apple created their OS with ease of use in mind. You explained that users didn't need to toggle their wifi on or off, or other things, as the OS was smart enough to manage battery life efficiently.


     


    Given your response regarding "superior" solutions, and how at the time you down played quick toggles, I feel as though you felt quick toggles was an antiquated concept based on lack of proper OS battery management. So my statement is based on your inability to see any fault in anything Apple does, and would probably now welcome the 1990's antiquated "quick toggles" feature as a "superior" solution as you so put it.

  • Reply 198 of 317
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    Android would have most definitely come to light as it was being produced at the same time as iOS. Would it look differently, absolutely, Google was sure that the way to go was using Blackberry's style of phone, I still prefer a hardware keyboard but that's a different story. Android defiantly copied Apple's GUI style but Apple also took the best ideas from what was being offered at the time and made them better. Nokia for instance was using grid style icons for years. Apple is still doing it, taking the best ideas like notifications for example and making them better. This isn't stealing but GUI evolution, it's a big reason why I think the patent system is in desperate need of an overhaul especially for software. I hate these lawsuits, who cares if you came up with a way to unlock your phone by sliding your finger across the screen first. It's a couple of hundred lines of code that I could reproduce in an afternoon. Was it creative, sure, the guy who did it 2 years before the iPhone in the Neonode N1m was very creative, did they patent it, no, he thought it was a cute feature that people might enjoy. Apple added a slider box, called it revolutionary, patented it and is now suing anyone recreating it. I hate this, more than I can possibly express.



    The review of the Neonode N1m if your interested.



    Because it takes too long to overhaul the Patent laws, Apple tries to do patent swap agreements like they did with Microsoft and HTC, because Apple finds a way to Appleize something to try to make it better, which sometimes takes a while, but they manage to do it.  If only the others did the same thing to avoid costly law suits, because no one likes lawsuits.  Most plaintiffs would rather settle, but sometimes they ask for what the other thinks is too much, or the Defendant thinks they can squirm out of it.  You know how corporate attorneys are. 


     


    One thing I was looking at with the security problem where Google might have to upgrade many versions of Android going back to at least Gingerbread release.


     


    Out of the 900 Million phones, here's the breakdown per Version.


    4.2.2   4%    36 Million users


    4.1.x  29%    261 Million users


    4.0.x 25.6%  230.4 Million users


    2.4.4-2.3.7  36.4%  327.6 Million users


    2.2  3.2%  2.88 Million users


    2.0-2.1  1.5%  13.5 Million users


     


    All of the others are only .1% or 0% so they don't really have anyone to really update on those systems.


     


    What's the likelihood that they are going to update everyone to 4.2.2?  Can these older phones running Gingerbread run 4.2.2 effectively due to older less powerful processors and less RAM?  And will these mfg that made them want to spend the time testing the updates on all of the models they have made since they didn't much profit on them in the first place and they aren't charging for these updates?  That's a lot of programmers that have to get involved on updating these older systems.  I wonder what Google is going to do.  It wouldn't surprise me if some of the watch dog groups are going to start attacking Google with this security flaw that's affecting this number of users.  The 4.0 and 4.1 users probably are going to have to get taken care of as fast as possible since that's more than 1/2 of the total losers (I mean users), not running 4.2.2.


     


    If I was using a high end phone that I bought within the last 2 years, I'd be kind of wondering what the hold up is.

  • Reply 199 of 317
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    Open source is good for components not complete consumer products. Engineers are not designers.
  • Reply 200 of 317
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member


    I've checked out certain industries and in many of them, the actually developer support for more high end apps for Android is almost non-existent.  The music creation and production industry with companies like yamaha, Alesis, Mackie, and a bunch of others that are coming out with iOS apps for iPads and iPhones don't even support Android, the support iOS.  They don't even support Windows RT tablets and WIndows phones.  Guess what?  If I were a developer of software, I might just support iOS, that is where most of the money is being spent on apps by users anyway.


     


    I wonder how this security issues and lack of updating the OS is going to attract or deter more Android developers?  People have to chose which platform is the best to support with as little headaches as possible.

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