I agree but Apple don't help themselves here. Even with the quality design and components that Apple use, an iPhone charger is still only costing them a few pence to manufacture. Instead of adding 1000%+ markup just make a decent 100%, give the retailer 100% and sell it for £5, not the current £15 that they want to charge. That would massively reduce the number of people willing to take a chance on a third party product.
First, you're grossly overestimating the margins that Apple makes on accessories. The idea that Apple makes 1000% markup is absurd. And the idea of Apple making 100%, allowing the retailer to make 100% and then sell it for 1/3 of its current price is equally absurd. I guess you've never had to manufacture products.
In the end, though, Apple is a for-profit business. They sell products for what the market will pay. If the market won't pay their price, then they have to either lower the price or lose sales. Apple has apparently decided that they don't lose enough sales to matter at the current price. YOU don't get to dictate the selling price (other than choosing what to buy or not to buy for yourself).
Talk about baseless. Where is your proof that the controller chip costs Apple $2.50?
The fact that you can purchase genuine Samsung usb chargers for under £5, with Samsung, distributor, retailer and government all taking their cut shows that COGS costs are not high. Tear down and testing done actually show the Samsung charger is as good, if not better, than the Apple one.
Apple may or may not be overcharging for their chargers, but as you point out there are quality alternatives in your price point.
People are dying because no matter how low the price for quality goes, the knockoffs will always be cheaper because they save money by cutting corners that make the device dangerous. The problem is these knockoffs being able to reach the market without any safety certification and people not understanding the difference.
First, you're grossly overestimating the margins that Apple makes on accessories. The idea that Apple makes 1000% markup is absurd. And the idea of Apple making 100%, allowing the retailer to make 100% and then sell it for 1/3 of its current price is equally absurd. I guess you've never had to manufacture products.
In the end, though, Apple is a for-profit business. They sell products for what the market will pay. If the market won't pay their price, then they have to either lower the price or lose sales. Apple has apparently decided that they don't lose enough sales to matter at the current price. YOU don't get to dictate the selling price (other than choosing what to buy or not to buy for yourself).
Yes Apple can charge what they like and on a £600 iPhone having a spare charger at £15 seems inline however you are dealing with a situation where iPhones are 'sold' new for £0, with a carrier contract, to people who wouldn't normally spend £600 on a phone. Apple are dealing with a different class of consumer to what they are previously use to.
Also given the quantities of phones sold, Apple are dealing with a much larger user base than they ever did before. The secondhand market in iPhones is huge and these are the people that are buying the cheap accessories, they wouldn't dream of spending £15 on a simple charger. By pricing accessories so high there is easy opportunity for third parties to come in at lower prices and still make lots of money. Ultimately it is Apple that suffers in negative publicity.
The car industry somewhat recognises this issue. Most manufacturers offer parts and servicing at a bigger discounts to owners of vehicles of an age of 5 years and over here in the UK. For Mercedes they would rather make sure a vehicle is still maintained, with genuine parts, than a wreck being driven about serving as a negative statement against their brand.
First, you're grossly overestimating the margins that Apple makes on accessories. The idea that Apple makes 1000% markup is absurd. And the idea of Apple making 100%, allowing the retailer to make 100% and then sell it for 1/3 of its current price is equally absurd. I guess you've never had to manufacture products.
In the end, though, Apple is a for-profit business. They sell products for what the market will pay. If the market won't pay their price, then they have to either lower the price or lose sales. Apple has apparently decided that they don't lose enough sales to matter at the current price. YOU don't get to dictate the selling price (other than choosing what to buy or not to buy for yourself).
Yes, but I think the original poster was suggesting that *if* Apple thought there was a big enough of a PR issue with people getting electocuted using their iPhones (yes, WE all know it wasn't the iPhone), one option would be to make their own chargers cheaper. That in turn would also force other quality 3rd party vendors to also lower their prices and give consumers a good selection of quality adaptors. I've purchased perfectly fine chargers for $10. Good build quality. Not quite as nice as Apple's, but good. Been working fine for over a year charging iPhones and iPads. So it is possible to make a good quality charge for less.
That said, and in reply to the original poster, I suspect that the locations (ie, China) where the safety issue is of real concern, the lack of regulations are always going to allow dangerous products on the market that no quality vendor would ever be able to compete with on price. Any products sold at retail or even online stores like Amazon in a country with good consumer safety regulations are likely going to meet minimum safety standards. I'd never buy a no-name adaptor off eBay. But an established retailor in a country with good consumer safety laws is going to have enough skin in the game that they will make sure they are selling safe products.
I'm astonished that the trolls have forgotten their usual line: real Apple chargers are made in China too, and ALL products made in China are the same, therefore real Apple chargers are just as dangerous! Don't let me down, guys.
If you don't want to be shocked or electrocuted buy genuine Apple products that have been fully qualified by the URL listings to comply with safety.
While I agree with the essence of your post, I wonder what the heck "URL listings" are? URL means "Uniform Resource Locator" and is part of a web address. Has nothing to do with safety.
Could you possibly mean "Underwriters Laboratory", and their familiar "UL" logo? While UL is a useful service, they do not offer any guarantee of safety (meaning, if you are injured, they bear no financial responsibility and offer no compensation). It is my understanding that UL's main aim is to reduce insurance liability by reducing safety risks. It's a nice thing, actually, that insurance companies push manufacturers to obtain some sort of safety certification, in order to keep their liability risk low, but don't for a moment think that UL is out there to save consumers out of some desire to be a good samaritan. They are a for-profit business, and their customers are the insurance companies. Not consumers. They merely campaign to consumers to buy UL-listed products as a service to their customers (manufacturers & insurance companies).
While I agree with the essence of your post, I wonder what the heck "URL listings" are? URL means "Uniform Resource Locator" and is part of a web address. Has nothing to do with safety.
Could you possibly mean "Underwriters Laboratory", and their familiar "UL" logo? While UL is a useful service, they do not offer any guarantee of safety (meaning, if you are injured, they bear no financial responsibility and offer no compensation). It is my understanding that UL's main aim is to reduce insurance liability by reducing safety risks. It's a nice thing, actually, that insurance companies push manufacturers to obtain some sort of safety certification, in order to keep their liability risk low, but don't for a moment think that UL is out there to save consumers out of some desire to be a good samaritan. They are a for-profit business, and their customers are the insurance companies. Not consumers. They merely campaign to consumers to buy UL-listed products as a service to their customers (manufacturers & insurance companies).
Are you claiming that their safety checks are not good for me as a consumer simply because they are reducing liability through these safety checks?
I couldn't care less if they are trying to be good samaritans or not, and I don't understand why people are seemingly unable to accept cases where everybody wins without trying to demonize the other group.
That said, and in reply to the original poster, I suspect that the locations (ie, China) where the safety issue is of real concern, the lack of regulations are always going to allow dangerous products on the market that no quality vendor would ever be able to compete with on price. Any products sold at retail or even online stores like Amazon in a country with good consumer safety regulations are likely going to meet minimum safety standards. I'd never buy a no-name adaptor off eBay. But an established retailor in a country with good consumer safety laws is going to have enough skin in the game that they will make sure they are selling safe products.
I wonder if we will see Apple making design compromises in the future to try and mitigate the lack of safety regulations in the countries that they sell products in? In a 'what is the worst that can happen' discussion I'm sure having mains voltage being present on the dock connector ground/shielding, making the part of the frame live, would be quite high up on the list. Not having a metal frame which the user holds would massively reduce the risk of a fatal shock being received.
The fact that it wasn't an Apple charger doesn't really help in this situation. The story was all over the Internet including mainstream sites such as the BBC. The majority of people will just read the headlines and not even realise it wasn't Apple at fault.
How much do Apple want to protect the brand and image against making the best products they can?
Hey, here's an idea... how about instead of saving a buck, you buy an actual, quality iPhone cable from Apple and avoid the costly hospital stay. Eh?
Is it sad to say I have yet to have a first-party iPhone cable last more than six months? Or that I went through three MagSafe cables for my old 17" MacBook Pro before I replaced it with a retina 15" MacBook Pro? My first MagSafe cable burned and melted. For cables for my iDevices, I prefer to use licensed third-party since they seem to be sturdier and do not fray as easily.
And when you get such strong shock, how the hell can the guy utter any words to his sister? I got shocked once on 110V for a few seconds, I could not speak or yell, my jaw closed tightly as the current travelled through my body. Same thing happens when someone is tased. This story sounds improbable and an anti-Apple propaganda from China. I don't deny people got hurt by these bad ac adapters, they should definitely be taken out of circulation.
Just because you couldn't speak doesn't mean it's not possible. I received a terrible jolt that made my jaws crash against each other violently, but I managed to swear like a sailor while struggling to get free of the loose wire touching the back of my neck and immobilizing my body.
Is it sad to say I have yet to have a first-party iPhone cable last more than six months? Or that I went through three MagSafe cables for my old 17" MacBook Pro before I replaced it with a retina 15" MacBook Pro? My first MagSafe cable burned and melted. For cables for my iDevices, I prefer to use licensed third-party since they seem to be sturdier and do not fray as easily.
Do you have mynocks around? They usually like to chew on the power cables.
I'm astonished that the trolls have forgotten their usual line: real Apple chargers are made in China too, and ALL products made in China are the same, therefore real Apple chargers are just as dangerous! Don't let me down, guys.
But then that would make anything made in China dangerous. They want to argue that Apple products are uniquely evil, therefore lets all get pitchforks and meet up on the Internets!
How is this news? What if the third-party adapter was plugged into a Samsung or HTC device? Do you always report on anything with the word "Apple" in it?
In america, houses have fuses, and bathrooms especially have GFI outlets that have a chance of saving a life in the case of a electrical ground fault via water.
Just because you couldn't speak doesn't mean it's not possible. I received a terrible jolt that made my jaws crash against each other violently, but I managed to swear like a sailor while struggling to get free of the loose wire touching the back of my neck and immobilizing my body.
What were you shocked with? I was once shocked with 110v AC, and I could not move or even think. I don't even really remember what it felt like as it happened. I was lucky there was someone standing nearby to knock the cord out of my hand or I would be dead right now.
To say that someone was able to yell out a coherent sentence while receiving a shock that results in a coma sounds like dramatic embellishment at best.
Comments
First, you're grossly overestimating the margins that Apple makes on accessories. The idea that Apple makes 1000% markup is absurd. And the idea of Apple making 100%, allowing the retailer to make 100% and then sell it for 1/3 of its current price is equally absurd. I guess you've never had to manufacture products.
In the end, though, Apple is a for-profit business. They sell products for what the market will pay. If the market won't pay their price, then they have to either lower the price or lose sales. Apple has apparently decided that they don't lose enough sales to matter at the current price. YOU don't get to dictate the selling price (other than choosing what to buy or not to buy for yourself).
Apple may or may not be overcharging for their chargers, but as you point out there are quality alternatives in your price point.
People are dying because no matter how low the price for quality goes, the knockoffs will always be cheaper because they save money by cutting corners that make the device dangerous. The problem is these knockoffs being able to reach the market without any safety certification and people not understanding the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
First, you're grossly overestimating the margins that Apple makes on accessories. The idea that Apple makes 1000% markup is absurd. And the idea of Apple making 100%, allowing the retailer to make 100% and then sell it for 1/3 of its current price is equally absurd. I guess you've never had to manufacture products.
In the end, though, Apple is a for-profit business. They sell products for what the market will pay. If the market won't pay their price, then they have to either lower the price or lose sales. Apple has apparently decided that they don't lose enough sales to matter at the current price. YOU don't get to dictate the selling price (other than choosing what to buy or not to buy for yourself).
Yes Apple can charge what they like and on a £600 iPhone having a spare charger at £15 seems inline however you are dealing with a situation where iPhones are 'sold' new for £0, with a carrier contract, to people who wouldn't normally spend £600 on a phone. Apple are dealing with a different class of consumer to what they are previously use to.
Also given the quantities of phones sold, Apple are dealing with a much larger user base than they ever did before. The secondhand market in iPhones is huge and these are the people that are buying the cheap accessories, they wouldn't dream of spending £15 on a simple charger. By pricing accessories so high there is easy opportunity for third parties to come in at lower prices and still make lots of money. Ultimately it is Apple that suffers in negative publicity.
The car industry somewhat recognises this issue. Most manufacturers offer parts and servicing at a bigger discounts to owners of vehicles of an age of 5 years and over here in the UK. For Mercedes they would rather make sure a vehicle is still maintained, with genuine parts, than a wreck being driven about serving as a negative statement against their brand.
First, you're grossly overestimating the margins that Apple makes on accessories. The idea that Apple makes 1000% markup is absurd. And the idea of Apple making 100%, allowing the retailer to make 100% and then sell it for 1/3 of its current price is equally absurd. I guess you've never had to manufacture products.
In the end, though, Apple is a for-profit business. They sell products for what the market will pay. If the market won't pay their price, then they have to either lower the price or lose sales. Apple has apparently decided that they don't lose enough sales to matter at the current price. YOU don't get to dictate the selling price (other than choosing what to buy or not to buy for yourself).
Yes, but I think the original poster was suggesting that *if* Apple thought there was a big enough of a PR issue with people getting electocuted using their iPhones (yes, WE all know it wasn't the iPhone), one option would be to make their own chargers cheaper. That in turn would also force other quality 3rd party vendors to also lower their prices and give consumers a good selection of quality adaptors. I've purchased perfectly fine chargers for $10. Good build quality. Not quite as nice as Apple's, but good. Been working fine for over a year charging iPhones and iPads. So it is possible to make a good quality charge for less.That said, and in reply to the original poster, I suspect that the locations (ie, China) where the safety issue is of real concern, the lack of regulations are always going to allow dangerous products on the market that no quality vendor would ever be able to compete with on price. Any products sold at retail or even online stores like Amazon in a country with good consumer safety regulations are likely going to meet minimum safety standards. I'd never buy a no-name adaptor off eBay. But an established retailor in a country with good consumer safety laws is going to have enough skin in the game that they will make sure they are selling safe products.
I'm astonished that the trolls have forgotten their usual line: real Apple chargers are made in China too, and ALL products made in China are the same, therefore real Apple chargers are just as dangerous! Don't let me down, guys.
And in other news, Samsung Galaxy phones using official chargers:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2359281/Exploding-Samsung-Galaxy-phone-leaves-teenager-degree-burns-smelling-like-burnt-pig.html
http://blog.gsmarena.com/a-samsung-galaxy-s3-smartphone-combusts-out-of-the-blue-and-burns-off-while-owner-is-asleep/
http://www.galaxynexusforum.com/forum/galaxy-nexus-help/3625-i-get-electrocuted-3-metal-points-when-i-handle-phone.html
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/my-headphones-just-electrocuted-my-ears.452863349/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406141,00.asp
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot
If you don't want to be shocked or electrocuted buy genuine Apple products that have been fully qualified by the URL listings to comply with safety.
While I agree with the essence of your post, I wonder what the heck "URL listings" are? URL means "Uniform Resource Locator" and is part of a web address. Has nothing to do with safety.
Could you possibly mean "Underwriters Laboratory", and their familiar "UL" logo? While UL is a useful service, they do not offer any guarantee of safety (meaning, if you are injured, they bear no financial responsibility and offer no compensation). It is my understanding that UL's main aim is to reduce insurance liability by reducing safety risks. It's a nice thing, actually, that insurance companies push manufacturers to obtain some sort of safety certification, in order to keep their liability risk low, but don't for a moment think that UL is out there to save consumers out of some desire to be a good samaritan. They are a for-profit business, and their customers are the insurance companies. Not consumers. They merely campaign to consumers to buy UL-listed products as a service to their customers (manufacturers & insurance companies).
It may be nitpicky, but the huge image A.I. has showing the Apple plug is wrong. That's an American plug. The Chinese use the same plug as Australia, which looks like this: http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/519111385/New_au_duckhead_australia_version_au_plug.jpg
If you want to be nitpicky, you should point out the fact that the incident in question involved a cheap third party knockoff and not an Apple plug.
Are you claiming that their safety checks are not good for me as a consumer simply because they are reducing liability through these safety checks?
I couldn't care less if they are trying to be good samaritans or not, and I don't understand why people are seemingly unable to accept cases where everybody wins without trying to demonize the other group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
That said, and in reply to the original poster, I suspect that the locations (ie, China) where the safety issue is of real concern, the lack of regulations are always going to allow dangerous products on the market that no quality vendor would ever be able to compete with on price. Any products sold at retail or even online stores like Amazon in a country with good consumer safety regulations are likely going to meet minimum safety standards. I'd never buy a no-name adaptor off eBay. But an established retailor in a country with good consumer safety laws is going to have enough skin in the game that they will make sure they are selling safe products.
I wonder if we will see Apple making design compromises in the future to try and mitigate the lack of safety regulations in the countries that they sell products in? In a 'what is the worst that can happen' discussion I'm sure having mains voltage being present on the dock connector ground/shielding, making the part of the frame live, would be quite high up on the list. Not having a metal frame which the user holds would massively reduce the risk of a fatal shock being received.
The fact that it wasn't an Apple charger doesn't really help in this situation. The story was all over the Internet including mainstream sites such as the BBC. The majority of people will just read the headlines and not even realise it wasn't Apple at fault.
How much do Apple want to protect the brand and image against making the best products they can?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline
Hey, here's an idea... how about instead of saving a buck, you buy an actual, quality iPhone cable from Apple and avoid the costly hospital stay. Eh?
Is it sad to say I have yet to have a first-party iPhone cable last more than six months? Or that I went through three MagSafe cables for my old 17" MacBook Pro before I replaced it with a retina 15" MacBook Pro? My first MagSafe cable burned and melted. For cables for my iDevices, I prefer to use licensed third-party since they seem to be sturdier and do not fray as easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marokero
And when you get such strong shock, how the hell can the guy utter any words to his sister? I got shocked once on 110V for a few seconds, I could not speak or yell, my jaw closed tightly as the current travelled through my body. Same thing happens when someone is tased. This story sounds improbable and an anti-Apple propaganda from China. I don't deny people got hurt by these bad ac adapters, they should definitely be taken out of circulation.
Just because you couldn't speak doesn't mean it's not possible. I received a terrible jolt that made my jaws crash against each other violently, but I managed to swear like a sailor while struggling to get free of the loose wire touching the back of my neck and immobilizing my body.
I thought these kinds of things only happen in the Bermuda Triangle.
Do you have mynocks around? They usually like to chew on the power cables.
But then that would make anything made in China dangerous. They want to argue that Apple products are uniquely evil, therefore lets all get pitchforks and meet up on the Internets!
How is this news? What if the third-party adapter was plugged into a Samsung or HTC device? Do you always report on anything with the word "Apple" in it?
What were you shocked with? I was once shocked with 110v AC, and I could not move or even think. I don't even really remember what it felt like as it happened. I was lucky there was someone standing nearby to knock the cord out of my hand or I would be dead right now.
To say that someone was able to yell out a coherent sentence while receiving a shock that results in a coma sounds like dramatic embellishment at best.