What were you shocked with? I was once shocked with 110v AC, and I could not move or even think. I don't even really remember what it felt like as it happened. I was lucky there was someone standing nearby to knock the cord out of my hand or I would be dead right now.
To say that someone was able to yell out a coherent sentence while receiving a shock that results in a coma sounds like dramatic embellishment at best.
I have been shocked with 110V AC a few times and it is definitely quite difficult to control your body. Given that being electrocuted causes your muscles to contract, it would be difficult to free yourself or even speak. My worst experience was that as a kid, my dad installed a metal soap dish into live wires in the bathroom. I was unpleasantly surprised when I reached for the soap while taking a shower.
What were you shocked with? I was once shocked with 110v AC, and I could not move or even think. I don't even really remember what it felt like as it happened. I was lucky there was someone standing nearby to knock the cord out of my hand or I would be dead right now.
To say that someone was able to yell out a coherent sentence while receiving a shock that results in a coma sounds like dramatic embellishment at best.
Having this discussion without knowing how much current was actually flowing through your body and where it was entering/exiting is kind of pointless. I've been shocked with 110 V AC. Took me a couple of seconds to realize what was going on and then I simply pulled my hand away. And besides, who said the guy in the article was coherent. Just because that's what the english translation of a Chinese newspaper from some remote region of China sort of suggested that a witness said? I think a lot of the "embellishment" may have been provided during the course of this discussion.
So basically this has nothing to do with iPhone or apple.
It is only about a Chinese company killing people with its negligently faulty adapters.
The iPhone belongs in the story as much as the company that built the house with the outlets in it.
Might as well mention the electric company while we are at it.
I sincerely hope there is no twisted element to this where people's lives are put at risk to manufacture political leverage.
Without all of the facts and an actual unbiased investigation it's literally impossible to tell what or who was at fault. It could be simple negligence. Faulty parts, or even just the outlier aspect of having so many of one product in use that you finally hit even an extremely low probability statistic.
I'm quite sure this is only in the world spot light simply because it's regarding an Apple product and that generates clicks and views.
Keep in mind that the odds of slipping in the shower and dying from head trauma is still higher than getting electrocuted while using an iPhone either properly, or improperly with or without official parts. I feel horrible for the two that were injured/killed. The fact that this makes the news is good, but the fact that it's considered world news worthy is akin to a smear campaign. There's simply too many variables to even consider pointing blame unless all of the facts are known.
With that in mind, the use of very simple logic 'common sense' would probably have curtailed this incident.
My personal advise (take it for what it's worth here on the internet): Don't touch ANYTHING that's plugged into (connected by wire) ANYTHING ELSE if your hands are wet or sweaty. It may have not been the case in this instance, but I'm simply letting those who don't know... know.
Having this discussion without knowing how much current was actually flowing through your body and where it was entering/exiting is kind of pointless. I've been shocked with 110 V AC. Took me a couple of seconds to realize what was going on and then I simply pulled my hand away. And besides, who said the guy in the article was coherent. Just because that's what the english translation of a Chinese newspaper from some remote region of China sort of suggested that a witness said? I think a lot of the "embellishment" may have been provided during the course of this discussion.
Again, it's not the voltage that causes harm. It's the amperage. I know that's what you're stating and I'm agreeing.
Just pointing out for everyone again that you can have tens of thousands of volts passing through your body without harm. However even less than 1 amp will cause your muscles to contract so hard that you can not let go of what is electrocuting you. At that point the current will continue to course through your body and cause irreparable harm. Your only hope at that point is gravity pulling your uncontrolled body away from the circuit before death. Which does actually happen, but not often enough.
No this is Apple's fault. They must change the laws of physics.
It has happened before. I would be interested.
I'm applying for my doctorate in this field. Magnetics and applied electric. I actually study this field every single day. So far I have not seen anything in any of the reports that could actually point to any cause other than electricity. There's simply too many variables and the conditions are unknown if not guessed. Electricity happens to be a very conditional property.
Nothing that has been reported thus far could give any clear indication as to what caused this man's injury other than electricity. Faulty/cheap parts is a speculative suggestion which could apply to both a "cheap knockoff" or an OEM (Apple) product. All of the details are unknowns, and pointing fingers without the facts is basing an argument on wild conjecture at this point.
My posts about other topics were my views/opinions. This IS my field of study and knowledge.
I wonder if Mr. Felix would still prefer me not to be on the jury if this was concerning him.
That said, and in reply to the original poster, I suspect that the locations (ie, China) where the safety issue is of real concern, the lack of regulations are always going to allow dangerous products on the market that no quality vendor would ever be able to compete with on price. Any products sold at retail or even online stores like Amazon in a country with good consumer safety regulations are likely going to meet minimum safety standards. I'd never buy a no-name adaptor off eBay. But an established retailor in a country with good consumer safety laws is going to have enough skin in the game that they will make sure they are selling safe products.
I understand I'm using your statement out of context, but what you said above is simply untrue.
In the United States we have the N.E.C. (National Electric Code). Beyond that certain states have amendments to those regulations. In my own state we have the Mass Amendments which in relatively simple terms make the national code a bit more strict. This has very little to do with off shore manufacturing and applies very lightly if at all to imports. Even if it was applied correctly to imports, the limited amount of Customs Agents will almost certainly guarantee that poor quality product will become salable in the United States. This is the entire reason (although not code oriented) why you can buy a Gucci bag for $15. Just using a "for instance".
Even in the U.S.A. it's still a case of buyer beware. There are many unsafe items being sold every day. Electrically, there are many two pronged extension cords being sold every day which are in peoples houses and do not meet code.
Don't rely on regulations. Research what you buy. Even if "it's just an extension cord! What could go wrong?"
I could actually list quite a few examples electrically which are commonly sold in the United States that unfortunately do not meet "regulations". Most people don't understand what's wrong with seeing an electrical product in an "all for a dollar" store... Though I bet they're the first to jibe at someone for not buying an actual Apple accessory. It's kind of amazing if you take all of the fanaticism out of the equation. Some are willing to buy the Apple product because they know it's quality, but they'll buy a $5 lamp and wonder why the shade caught fire... Honestly, it really is amazing.
Just be careful. No one is actually protecting you from yourself. Apple's trying, but they only sell phones, computers and tablets. Everything else is up to you.
Apple cannot stop the Cheap crap that goes to market that people buy that is not an authorized product of Apple. If you don't want to be shocked or electrocuted buy genuine Apple products that have been fully qualified by the URL listings to comply with safety. If you buy crap you get crap, it's that simple.
There are a lot of other factors involved here to like what shape are the outlets in the home like? Condition of the wiring in the home and so on. Are they using some kind of transformer as well. If any of these are bad or in poor condition they to can lead to electrocution or shock.
But an unauthorized wanna be product is the worse offender of all. Not made or approved by Apple. Not quality tested or built to the URL standards for electric safety.
Apple tries its hardest to require testing of every exsisting iPhone charger.
Very odd. I got lightly shocked by 220V once and certainly didn't feel like talking then. In fact, it's physically impossible. I smell FUD.
Again, one more time for the masses. Voltage alone will not hurt you and and will not impede your speech. It's very much physically possible to speak while having 220volts pass through your body. It's when you put enough amperage in the equation that it will probably hurt.
Here's a few groups of people who are experimenting with an electrical fence. It's unknown what the voltage on the fences were, however it could be as high as 10,000volts.
I DO NOT SUGEST TRYING THIS YOURSELF!!!! Remember that electricity is very conditional and even if just a small amount of amperage is traveling through the fence it could prove fatal. The fences in the video apparently do not have enough amperage to cause more harm than a sharp discomfort.
I'm posting this just because it's some of my favorites. It's high voltage and amperage. Electricity always wants to get back to its source and sometimes it can be rather stubborn.
Mind you, that if you were standing anywhere near this you could possibly be vaporized. It's unknown actually. However you absolutely would not survive.
Another favorite. This is due to natural elements creating a short.
Sorry, these are two of my all time favorites and I had to share. They're off topic. I watch them at least once a week/month.
Edit: Sorry about the language in the second video! Boys will be boys I suppose.
Again, one more time for the masses. Voltage alone will not hurt you and and will not impede your speech. It's very much physically possible to speak while having 220volts pass through your body. It's when you put enough amperage in the equation that it will probably hurt.
Here's a few groups of people who are experimenting with an electrical fence. It's unknown what the voltage on the fences were, however it could be as high as 10,000volts.
I DO NOT SUGEST TRYING THIS YOURSELF!!!! Remember that electricity is very conditional and even if just a small amount of amperage is traveling through the fence it could prove fatal. The fences in the video apparently do not have enough amperage to cause more harm than a sharp discomfort.
That's just peanuts. Try a van de graff generator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator) which chan easily achieve millions of volts. You can put your hand on one and the worst that will happen is that your hair will stand on end.
Of course, the amperage is infinitesimal, so no harm is done.
Chinese does have an electronics standard (CCC) for safety as UL approval. The problem is that Chinese government agency does not enforce it. Sad to live in China where faulty product/food/water/air kills. I moved back to US because of poor Chinese regulations. The previous administration's harmony policy was... (I don't know the Chinese thinking!) Better give example: Police department will not be recorded crime if material damage/medical bill is less than US$800; so slap some one's face or beating around without broken bone is not a crime.
Every Chinese government personnel thinks that they are above the law as we have NSA... Ha! Ha! They worked for the public interest; so, they are exampled from liabilities.
Are you claiming that their safety checks are not good for me as a consumer simply because they are reducing liability through these safety checks?
I couldn't care less if they are trying to be good samaritans or not, and I don't understand why people are seemingly unable to accept cases where everybody wins without trying to demonize the other group.
I didn't "demonize" the UL. In fact, I said what they do is "a nice thing". Why do you read negativity into my post, where there was none?
I wonder if it was the same brand of adaptor as the woman had? There might be a whole batch that needs recalling.
Does anything ever get recalled in China? Their industrial/tech economy is so young, that they haven't yet developed the "safety culture" that western nations have. It is also possible that cultural differences may prevent them from ever developing one. I guess those of us in other countries have to protect ourselves from dangerous Chinese products - they certainly can't seem to do it.
Umm, he can't be electrocuted and in a coma. The word electrocuted means to kill with electricity.
The gentleman involved had enough electricity pass through his system to put him into a coma. I it is very common and not beyond the realm of possibility.
Just because the "blog" states that the gentleman was electrocuted, and you happened to look it up doesn't mean it was either correct factually. Keep that in mind when you think you are reading the rest of the "facts" in said "blog".
This happens because domestic electrical installations in China do not use Earth circuits to save many on copper wire. Serves em right.
I'm not well versed in common electrical installations in China. The items I have read actually have very stringent code in metropolitan areas. Please enlighten me where you are getting your information. This could very well be similar to someone in West Virginia pulling apart the conductors in their cable and putting them in their toaster to charge a device...
No offense to West Virginians of course. There's some obviously strange statistics originating from that area.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen
What were you shocked with? I was once shocked with 110v AC, and I could not move or even think. I don't even really remember what it felt like as it happened. I was lucky there was someone standing nearby to knock the cord out of my hand or I would be dead right now.
To say that someone was able to yell out a coherent sentence while receiving a shock that results in a coma sounds like dramatic embellishment at best.
I have been shocked with 110V AC a few times and it is definitely quite difficult to control your body. Given that being electrocuted causes your muscles to contract, it would be difficult to free yourself or even speak. My worst experience was that as a kid, my dad installed a metal soap dish into live wires in the bathroom. I was unpleasantly surprised when I reached for the soap while taking a shower.
What were you shocked with? I was once shocked with 110v AC, and I could not move or even think. I don't even really remember what it felt like as it happened. I was lucky there was someone standing nearby to knock the cord out of my hand or I would be dead right now.
To say that someone was able to yell out a coherent sentence while receiving a shock that results in a coma sounds like dramatic embellishment at best.
Having this discussion without knowing how much current was actually flowing through your body and where it was entering/exiting is kind of pointless. I've been shocked with 110 V AC. Took me a couple of seconds to realize what was going on and then I simply pulled my hand away. And besides, who said the guy in the article was coherent. Just because that's what the english translation of a Chinese newspaper from some remote region of China sort of suggested that a witness said? I think a lot of the "embellishment" may have been provided during the course of this discussion.It is only about a Chinese company killing people with its negligently faulty adapters.
The iPhone belongs in the story as much as the company that built the house with the outlets in it.
Might as well mention the electric company while we are at it.
I sincerely hope there is no twisted element to this where people's lives are put at risk to manufacture political leverage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko
So basically this has nothing to do with iPhone or apple.
It is only about a Chinese company killing people with its negligently faulty adapters.
The iPhone belongs in the story as much as the company that built the house with the outlets in it.
Might as well mention the electric company while we are at it.
I sincerely hope there is no twisted element to this where people's lives are put at risk to manufacture political leverage.
Without all of the facts and an actual unbiased investigation it's literally impossible to tell what or who was at fault. It could be simple negligence. Faulty parts, or even just the outlier aspect of having so many of one product in use that you finally hit even an extremely low probability statistic.
I'm quite sure this is only in the world spot light simply because it's regarding an Apple product and that generates clicks and views.
Keep in mind that the odds of slipping in the shower and dying from head trauma is still higher than getting electrocuted while using an iPhone either properly, or improperly with or without official parts. I feel horrible for the two that were injured/killed. The fact that this makes the news is good, but the fact that it's considered world news worthy is akin to a smear campaign. There's simply too many variables to even consider pointing blame unless all of the facts are known.
With that in mind, the use of very simple logic 'common sense' would probably have curtailed this incident.
My personal advise (take it for what it's worth here on the internet): Don't touch ANYTHING that's plugged into (connected by wire) ANYTHING ELSE if your hands are wet or sweaty. It may have not been the case in this instance, but I'm simply letting those who don't know... know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
Having this discussion without knowing how much current was actually flowing through your body and where it was entering/exiting is kind of pointless. I've been shocked with 110 V AC. Took me a couple of seconds to realize what was going on and then I simply pulled my hand away. And besides, who said the guy in the article was coherent. Just because that's what the english translation of a Chinese newspaper from some remote region of China sort of suggested that a witness said? I think a lot of the "embellishment" may have been provided during the course of this discussion.Again, it's not the voltage that causes harm. It's the amperage. I know that's what you're stating and I'm agreeing.
Just pointing out for everyone again that you can have tens of thousands of volts passing through your body without harm. However even less than 1 amp will cause your muscles to contract so hard that you can not let go of what is electrocuting you. At that point the current will continue to course through your body and cause irreparable harm. Your only hope at that point is gravity pulling your uncontrolled body away from the circuit before death. Which does actually happen, but not often enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
No this is Apple's fault. They must change the laws of physics.
It has happened before. I would be interested.
I'm applying for my doctorate in this field. Magnetics and applied electric. I actually study this field every single day. So far I have not seen anything in any of the reports that could actually point to any cause other than electricity. There's simply too many variables and the conditions are unknown if not guessed. Electricity happens to be a very conditional property.
Nothing that has been reported thus far could give any clear indication as to what caused this man's injury other than electricity. Faulty/cheap parts is a speculative suggestion which could apply to both a "cheap knockoff" or an OEM (Apple) product. All of the details are unknowns, and pointing fingers without the facts is basing an argument on wild conjecture at this point.
My posts about other topics were my views/opinions. This IS my field of study and knowledge.
I wonder if Mr. Felix would still prefer me not to be on the jury if this was concerning him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
That said, and in reply to the original poster, I suspect that the locations (ie, China) where the safety issue is of real concern, the lack of regulations are always going to allow dangerous products on the market that no quality vendor would ever be able to compete with on price. Any products sold at retail or even online stores like Amazon in a country with good consumer safety regulations are likely going to meet minimum safety standards. I'd never buy a no-name adaptor off eBay. But an established retailor in a country with good consumer safety laws is going to have enough skin in the game that they will make sure they are selling safe products.
I understand I'm using your statement out of context, but what you said above is simply untrue.
In the United States we have the N.E.C. (National Electric Code). Beyond that certain states have amendments to those regulations. In my own state we have the Mass Amendments which in relatively simple terms make the national code a bit more strict. This has very little to do with off shore manufacturing and applies very lightly if at all to imports. Even if it was applied correctly to imports, the limited amount of Customs Agents will almost certainly guarantee that poor quality product will become salable in the United States. This is the entire reason (although not code oriented) why you can buy a Gucci bag for $15. Just using a "for instance".
Even in the U.S.A. it's still a case of buyer beware. There are many unsafe items being sold every day. Electrically, there are many two pronged extension cords being sold every day which are in peoples houses and do not meet code.
Don't rely on regulations. Research what you buy. Even if "it's just an extension cord! What could go wrong?"
I could actually list quite a few examples electrically which are commonly sold in the United States that unfortunately do not meet "regulations". Most people don't understand what's wrong with seeing an electrical product in an "all for a dollar" store... Though I bet they're the first to jibe at someone for not buying an actual Apple accessory. It's kind of amazing if you take all of the fanaticism out of the equation. Some are willing to buy the Apple product because they know it's quality, but they'll buy a $5 lamp and wonder why the shade caught fire... Honestly, it really is amazing.
Just be careful. No one is actually protecting you from yourself. Apple's trying, but they only sell phones, computers and tablets. Everything else is up to you.
Apple tries its hardest to require testing of every exsisting iPhone charger. Very true, however wonder is did she have contact on low voltage multiple minutes or high voltage seconds?
A report of the brand might be very helpful since it is the fault, is it a cheap Chinese knock off made down the road from her house?
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-News
Very odd. I got lightly shocked by 220V once and certainly didn't feel like talking then. In fact, it's physically impossible. I smell FUD.
Again, one more time for the masses. Voltage alone will not hurt you and and will not impede your speech. It's very much physically possible to speak while having 220volts pass through your body. It's when you put enough amperage in the equation that it will probably hurt.
Here's a few groups of people who are experimenting with an electrical fence. It's unknown what the voltage on the fences were, however it could be as high as 10,000volts.
I DO NOT SUGEST TRYING THIS YOURSELF!!!! Remember that electricity is very conditional and even if just a small amount of amperage is traveling through the fence it could prove fatal. The fences in the video apparently do not have enough amperage to cause more harm than a sharp discomfort.
I'm posting this just because it's some of my favorites. It's high voltage and amperage. Electricity always wants to get back to its source and sometimes it can be rather stubborn.
Mind you, that if you were standing anywhere near this you could possibly be vaporized. It's unknown actually. However you absolutely would not survive.
Another favorite. This is due to natural elements creating a short.
Sorry, these are two of my all time favorites and I had to share. They're off topic. I watch them at least once a week/month.
Edit: Sorry about the language in the second video! Boys will be boys I suppose.
That's just peanuts. Try a van de graff generator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator) which chan easily achieve millions of volts. You can put your hand on one and the worst that will happen is that your hair will stand on end.
Of course, the amperage is infinitesimal, so no harm is done.
Every Chinese government personnel thinks that they are above the law as we have NSA... Ha! Ha! They worked for the public interest; so, they are exampled from liabilities.
This happens because domestic electrical installations in China do not use Earth circuits to save many on copper wire. Serves em right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen
Are you claiming that their safety checks are not good for me as a consumer simply because they are reducing liability through these safety checks?
I couldn't care less if they are trying to be good samaritans or not, and I don't understand why people are seemingly unable to accept cases where everybody wins without trying to demonize the other group.
I didn't "demonize" the UL. In fact, I said what they do is "a nice thing". Why do you read negativity into my post, where there was none?
This is what's known as Darwinian Engineering.
If you're stupid enough to buy crap, you'll be killed by it.
Survival of the Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
I wonder if it was the same brand of adaptor as the woman had? There might be a whole batch that needs recalling.
Does anything ever get recalled in China? Their industrial/tech economy is so young, that they haven't yet developed the "safety culture" that western nations have. It is also possible that cultural differences may prevent them from ever developing one. I guess those of us in other countries have to protect ourselves from dangerous Chinese products - they certainly can't seem to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donarb
Umm, he can't be electrocuted and in a coma. The word electrocuted means to kill with electricity.
The gentleman involved had enough electricity pass through his system to put him into a coma. I it is very common and not beyond the realm of possibility.
Just because the "blog" states that the gentleman was electrocuted, and you happened to look it up doesn't mean it was either correct factually. Keep that in mind when you think you are reading the rest of the "facts" in said "blog".
Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieinHK
This happens because domestic electrical installations in China do not use Earth circuits to save many on copper wire. Serves em right.
I'm not well versed in common electrical installations in China. The items I have read actually have very stringent code in metropolitan areas. Please enlighten me where you are getting your information. This could very well be similar to someone in West Virginia pulling apart the conductors in their cable and putting them in their toaster to charge a device...
No offense to West Virginians of course. There's some obviously strange statistics originating from that area.