What's the point of this article again? I don't see any definitive conclusions beyond a long rambling paragraph about how a competitor's product sucks.
And Hemingway's "Old Man and the Sea" was about a guy that went fishing.
Only about 40 million new cars are sold in the world every year. The cellphone market is billions. Moreover, free maps/directions and music on my smartphone have already destroyed the value of my car audio system. I just want it to run AirTunes. So this is a small market for Apple, and not a valuable one.
This could be the market that affects which phone and tablet the car owners put in their pocket. So, the winner of this market should see a wealth of prestige that translates into sales; AKA the Halo effect.
Why don't apple just make the car, themselves the magic of apple make it the best car in any way ever. With the low price (as apple always does) of only $3,000,000 per vehicle.
That still means the software will be 3-4 years outdated. That's like using a iPhone 3G today.... I don't know why they can't just make an upgradeable idevice for vehicles.
Side note- Dec of 2014? Why that exact date- that seems odd.
Err... firmware updates?. I've had my Honda Firmware upgraded 2X since 2003... it's not rocket science. At your X0,000 dealer maintenance... they plug in and upgrade you for iOS8 enhancements (which should cover you for 2 more years).
And the software looks to be pretty dumb. For the most part... most of this could be purely display server SW (I'm an old X11 head). Unless Siri starts controlling environmentals ("Set driver temperature to 68DegF, and passenger temp to 72... please put fans on feet at medium and on defrost on medium please") and car based components (stereo, DVD), nothing else is needed. And no safety components would be integrated (driving, door locks, lights, wipers), as that is a bucket of worms you don't want to dive into). it's really just a display/audio/handsfree interface link to an Apple supplied API... All the 'smarts' are in the iOS device.
The only thing that could become outdated is the electromechanical connections. BT4.0 and the new lightning connector will likely be supported for at least 3 more years...
As for Dec 2014... that's when most of the 2015 version cars will have been release. (2014's start rolling in next month).
Err... firmware updates?. I've had my Honda Firmware upgraded 2X since 2003... it's not rocket science. At your X0,000 dealer maintenance... they plug in and upgrade you for iOS8 enhancements (which should cover you for 2 more years).
The only thing that could become outdated is the electromechanical connections. BT4.0 and the new lightning connector will likely be supported for at least 3 more years...
As for Dec 2014... that's when most of the 2015 version cars will have been release. (2014's start rolling in next month).
Thats the problem though. A 3 year life cycle isn't ideal for the average person. Americans keep a new car an average of 71 months, and a used car an average of 50 months. A 5-8 year cycle would be fantastic- and only achievable through removeable hardware. This isn't a cell phone where you upgrade every 2 years- it's a car. And if you could update the internals- some would upgrade annually- I know I would.
Dec 2014 was when his lease was up. 2015s get released between July-Sept, almost never December.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
All that reveals is that you know diddly-squat about the lease v. buy decision.
Not everyone can get an attractive lease, for starters, so your view is not at all uncommon. :-)
Attractive lease- what an oxymoron. Buying a new car- period- is really dumb, unless you're a millionaire- you can't afford the depreciation. Obviously, you can "afford" it, but I mean the ratio of loss in a person's portfolio. And of course, if you were a millionaire, you wouldn't be leasing a car anyway. Just pay cash for a car (new or used)- and you come out way ahead for financing or leasing.
Leases are never good deals. I've never leased, because my dad taught me right- but I researched the crap out of it when I was younger- and it is beyond stupid. The only people who truly like leases are car dealerships and manufacturers (hence why commissions are highest with leases and manufacturers make the most money). Someone is paying for that...... could it be you? I would suggest you research a little more. One could argue that they want to be forced to get a brand new car every 2-3 years, and never have the stress of not being under warranty, etc- and don't mind paying a premium. That's valid. But don't act as if its financially a better decision and you have it figured out- that's naive.
Attractive lease- what an oxymoron. Buying a new car- period- is really dumb, unless you're a millionaire- you can't afford the depreciation. Obviously, you can "afford" it, but I mean the ratio of loss in a person's portfolio. And of course, if you were a millionaire, you wouldn't be leasing a car anyway.
Leases are never good deals. I've never leased, because my dad taught me right- but I researched the crap out of it when I was younger- and it is beyond stupid. The only people who truly like leases are car dealerships and manufacturers (hence why commissions are highest with leases and manufacturers make the most money). Someone is paying for that...... could it be you? I would suggest you research a little more. One could argue that they want to be forced to get a brand new car every 2-3 years, and never have the stress of not being under warranty, etc- and don't mind paying a premium. That's valid. But don't act as if its financially a better decision and you have it figured out- that's naive.
You really must not reveal your financial ignorance like this in public.
You may also wish to take a course -- I understand community colleges offer these -- on Econ 101, and try to grasp the concept of consumer surplus.
You really must not reveal your financial ignorance like this in public.
You may also wish to take a course -- I understand community colleges offer these -- on Econ 101, and try to grasp the concept of consumer surplus.
Lol... says the guy paying how much a month on a car (or cars)- and I pay $0. Like my dad always said- a $400 repair beats a $400 monthly payment any day.
Do you happen to work for our government by chance? You have similar fiscal policies
Edited: I don't mean to sound like I'm kicking you in the nuts anant- I understand the benefit. Particularly when people are taking their cars they had a 72 month finance on and trading them in at 40 months. Substantially worse than leasing. But please don't argue that leasing a car is smart. Some people argue about "tying up capital" in a vehicle that is depreciating- so you can spread that depreciation out through a lease- because, in theory, that's what you're paying for. But when people try to claim financial benefit to a lease, its laughable. Because if you want to talk about investment of capital and financial benefit- you better have that conversation off the new car lot.
This should be especially exciting to auto manufacturers because electric cars are picking up rather slowly in an otherwise very mature market where innovation is expectedly low. <span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.231;">Adding sophisticated technology to the car industry may create a higher turn-over rate. </span>
<span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.231;">If consumers are given a reason to upgrade their cars more often, you can fully expect auto manufacturers to jump on it. In that respect, they have very little motivation to create cars that quickly become outdated.</span>
Yea I can certainly see that. But since turning over a car is very difficult compared to turning over an iPad, I can see more consumers just being frustrated that their brand new 2014 X brand car with iOS in the Car, doesn't support half the features of iOS 8 next year. That kinda thing.
Maybe Apple will be super brilliant and just update those cars OTA, or allow you plug in an iPhone to the Car's USB port and update the iOS in the Car software.
As a UX guy, and I have publicly trashed it before (after all, a poor UX is not conducive to safe driving!), the Ford Sync UX is a total and utter disaster. If Ford to not adopt iOS or Android as their future in car control and entertainment system, I for one would not buy or recommend their vehicles. What were they thinking?! Or did MS pay Ford simply because they want to be on board, rather than because MS offer a 'superior' experience, which they don't. Fact: MS cannot do human factors!
As an aside, on the topic of a 'depreciating asset,' do you ever buy your computers new, or do you usually pick up only used ones?
I've bought them both ways, but it doesn't matter, as $1k isn't much money to me- I don't even consider a computer an asset. When buying a house- you don't say "I also have a MacBook worth $1.3k"
A car, on the other hand, I do consider an asset. Although extremely wealthy people don't- because $30-60k to them is like a computer to us. My point is, if you consider a car an asset or "investment", then you are unwise to suffer that large a hit on depreciation of a new car. This includes a lease, because again- you're "renting" the depreciation.
If you just have to have a new car, lease away. But don't say it's smart fiscally- because unless your uber rich (and by that I mean wealth- not income affluent)- a new car is never fiscally smart. A wise man once said "Personal finance is 80% behavior and 20% knowledge". If you're always making payments- you'll always make payments (lease or otherwise). Maybe it was my Econ 101 Prof at my local Community College that said it...
I was interested in this article because I own a 2012 Ford Focus with Sync and MyFord Touch. Generally, my experience has been great—I love the hands-free/eyes-free calling and integration with my iPhone’s address book, love the Sony stereo system that it came with, love the fact that it will give me clear spoken directions on the speakers using the Google Maps app’s new functionality (I bought the car used and didn’t spring for the available GPS on SD card, a $700 option), love the ability to supplement playing music from my iPhone’s music app (via either direct connection or Bluetooth) with either a USB drive or CD, and can also play Internet radio apps like Pandora, Spotify and iHeart Radio through my iPhone. (Not a big satellite radio fan, but if I were, that is nicely supported as well.)
This is a pretty robust integration of iOS, especially considering it’s enabled by Microsoft, but, being a Mac enthusiast for decades, I would absolutely love full integration, including Siri (Microsoft’s voice command system is mostly okay, but not quite up to Apple’s Siri, which in turn may be slightly behind Google’s voice search capabilities, but is still probably best overall) and full app support. In Eddie Cue’s iOS for the Car announcement, I noted that he mentioned including Bing search results, and my hunch was that Apple may have been trying to mend fences a bit by offering them this consolation prize, as it were, to seeing their Sync integration being superseded by a full iOS integration.
One might expect Microsoft to defend its own platform, but what would have to happen at this point is for Sync to give way to Windows Phone integration, and that could be a pretty iffy proposition. Notably, both Apple and Microsoft are ahead of Google in making a viable operating system for the car, but one would guess that Google can’t be far behind, looking to gain a significant foothold in the marketplace. (Mention of a Google integration with Kia may be evidence of that.) So it appears that Apple and Microsoft may be hunkering together in anticipation of a Google onslaught—and I think it’s fair to say that Apple now views Google and its Android OS as its most dangerous adversary.
Anyway, what I’m wondering about is whether there may be a path to upgrade my current set-up to full iOS for the Car integration without having to replace the whole car itself. The article said that the car computer is a “low end ARM PC made by Continental AG,” and it bears asking if it looks likely that any of the Big Three in mobile device OS support may not only get into the car software business but the *hardware* business as well—that is, supplying the computer as well as the software. Interestingly, Apple would be in the best position to do that with their decades of experience in computer manufacturing—Microsoft and Google being latecomers to the hardware game (Google’s primary manufacturer rep would appear to be Samsung, while Microsoft has slightly more experience by way of XBox and its Surface tablet). I would like to hear from those with further insights into what developments may be on the horizon for loyal (can you say ‘no bailout’?) Ford owners like me.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal
What's the point of this article again? I don't see any definitive conclusions beyond a long rambling paragraph about how a competitor's product sucks.
And Hemingway's "Old Man and the Sea" was about a guy that went fishing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM
Only about 40 million new cars are sold in the world every year. The cellphone market is billions. Moreover, free maps/directions and music on my smartphone have already destroyed the value of my car audio system. I just want it to run AirTunes. So this is a small market for Apple, and not a valuable one.
This could be the market that affects which phone and tablet the car owners put in their pocket. So, the winner of this market should see a wealth of prestige that translates into sales; AKA the Halo effect.
/s
All that reveals is that you know diddly-squat about the lease v. buy decision.
Not everyone can get an attractive lease, for starters, so your view is not at all uncommon. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
That still means the software will be 3-4 years outdated. That's like using a iPhone 3G today.... I don't know why they can't just make an upgradeable idevice for vehicles.
Side note- Dec of 2014? Why that exact date- that seems odd.
Err... firmware updates?. I've had my Honda Firmware upgraded 2X since 2003... it's not rocket science. At your X0,000 dealer maintenance... they plug in and upgrade you for iOS8 enhancements (which should cover you for 2 more years).
And the software looks to be pretty dumb. For the most part... most of this could be purely display server SW (I'm an old X11 head). Unless Siri starts controlling environmentals ("Set driver temperature to 68DegF, and passenger temp to 72... please put fans on feet at medium and on defrost on medium please") and car based components (stereo, DVD), nothing else is needed. And no safety components would be integrated (driving, door locks, lights, wipers), as that is a bucket of worms you don't want to dive into). it's really just a display/audio/handsfree interface link to an Apple supplied API... All the 'smarts' are in the iOS device.
The only thing that could become outdated is the electromechanical connections. BT4.0 and the new lightning connector will likely be supported for at least 3 more years...
As for Dec 2014... that's when most of the 2015 version cars will have been release. (2014's start rolling in next month).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
Err... firmware updates?. I've had my Honda Firmware upgraded 2X since 2003... it's not rocket science. At your X0,000 dealer maintenance... they plug in and upgrade you for iOS8 enhancements (which should cover you for 2 more years).
The only thing that could become outdated is the electromechanical connections. BT4.0 and the new lightning connector will likely be supported for at least 3 more years...
As for Dec 2014... that's when most of the 2015 version cars will have been release. (2014's start rolling in next month).
Thats the problem though. A 3 year life cycle isn't ideal for the average person. Americans keep a new car an average of 71 months, and a used car an average of 50 months. A 5-8 year cycle would be fantastic- and only achievable through removeable hardware. This isn't a cell phone where you upgrade every 2 years- it's a car. And if you could update the internals- some would upgrade annually- I know I would.
Dec 2014 was when his lease was up. 2015s get released between July-Sept, almost never December.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
All that reveals is that you know diddly-squat about the lease v. buy decision.
Not everyone can get an attractive lease, for starters, so your view is not at all uncommon. :-)
Attractive lease- what an oxymoron. Buying a new car- period- is really dumb, unless you're a millionaire- you can't afford the depreciation. Obviously, you can "afford" it, but I mean the ratio of loss in a person's portfolio. And of course, if you were a millionaire, you wouldn't be leasing a car anyway. Just pay cash for a car (new or used)- and you come out way ahead for financing or leasing.
Leases are never good deals. I've never leased, because my dad taught me right- but I researched the crap out of it when I was younger- and it is beyond stupid. The only people who truly like leases are car dealerships and manufacturers (hence why commissions are highest with leases and manufacturers make the most money). Someone is paying for that...... could it be you? I would suggest you research a little more. One could argue that they want to be forced to get a brand new car every 2-3 years, and never have the stress of not being under warranty, etc- and don't mind paying a premium. That's valid. But don't act as if its financially a better decision and you have it figured out- that's naive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Attractive lease- what an oxymoron. Buying a new car- period- is really dumb, unless you're a millionaire- you can't afford the depreciation. Obviously, you can "afford" it, but I mean the ratio of loss in a person's portfolio. And of course, if you were a millionaire, you wouldn't be leasing a car anyway.
Leases are never good deals. I've never leased, because my dad taught me right- but I researched the crap out of it when I was younger- and it is beyond stupid. The only people who truly like leases are car dealerships and manufacturers (hence why commissions are highest with leases and manufacturers make the most money). Someone is paying for that...... could it be you? I would suggest you research a little more. One could argue that they want to be forced to get a brand new car every 2-3 years, and never have the stress of not being under warranty, etc- and don't mind paying a premium. That's valid. But don't act as if its financially a better decision and you have it figured out- that's naive.
You really must not reveal your financial ignorance like this in public.
You may also wish to take a course -- I understand community colleges offer these -- on Econ 101, and try to grasp the concept of consumer surplus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
You really must not reveal your financial ignorance like this in public.
You may also wish to take a course -- I understand community colleges offer these -- on Econ 101, and try to grasp the concept of consumer surplus.
Lol... says the guy paying how much a month on a car (or cars)- and I pay $0. Like my dad always said- a $400 repair beats a $400 monthly payment any day.
Do you happen to work for our government by chance? You have similar fiscal policies
Edited: I don't mean to sound like I'm kicking you in the nuts anant- I understand the benefit. Particularly when people are taking their cars they had a 72 month finance on and trading them in at 40 months. Substantially worse than leasing. But please don't argue that leasing a car is smart. Some people argue about "tying up capital" in a vehicle that is depreciating- so you can spread that depreciation out through a lease- because, in theory, that's what you're paying for. But when people try to claim financial benefit to a lease, its laughable. Because if you want to talk about investment of capital and financial benefit- you better have that conversation off the new car lot.
duplicate
Yea I can certainly see that. But since turning over a car is very difficult compared to turning over an iPad, I can see more consumers just being frustrated that their brand new 2014 X brand car with iOS in the Car, doesn't support half the features of iOS 8 next year. That kinda thing.
Maybe Apple will be super brilliant and just update those cars OTA, or allow you plug in an iPhone to the Car's USB port and update the iOS in the Car software.
What part of the phrase 'lease VERSUS buy' in my prior post did you not understand?
As an aside, on the topic of a 'depreciating asset,' do you ever buy your computers new, or do you usually pick up only used ones?
Microsoft. Thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
As an aside, on the topic of a 'depreciating asset,' do you ever buy your computers new, or do you usually pick up only used ones?
I've bought them both ways, but it doesn't matter, as $1k isn't much money to me- I don't even consider a computer an asset. When buying a house- you don't say "I also have a MacBook worth $1.3k"
A car, on the other hand, I do consider an asset. Although extremely wealthy people don't- because $30-60k to them is like a computer to us. My point is, if you consider a car an asset or "investment", then you are unwise to suffer that large a hit on depreciation of a new car. This includes a lease, because again- you're "renting" the depreciation.
If you just have to have a new car, lease away. But don't say it's smart fiscally- because unless your uber rich (and by that I mean wealth- not income affluent)- a new car is never fiscally smart. A wise man once said "Personal finance is 80% behavior and 20% knowledge". If you're always making payments- you'll always make payments (lease or otherwise). Maybe it was my Econ 101 Prof at my local Community College that said it...
This is a pretty robust integration of iOS, especially considering it’s enabled by Microsoft, but, being a Mac enthusiast for decades, I would absolutely love full integration, including Siri (Microsoft’s voice command system is mostly okay, but not quite up to Apple’s Siri, which in turn may be slightly behind Google’s voice search capabilities, but is still probably best overall) and full app support. In Eddie Cue’s iOS for the Car announcement, I noted that he mentioned including Bing search results, and my hunch was that Apple may have been trying to mend fences a bit by offering them this consolation prize, as it were, to seeing their Sync integration being superseded by a full iOS integration.
One might expect Microsoft to defend its own platform, but what would have to happen at this point is for Sync to give way to Windows Phone integration, and that could be a pretty iffy proposition. Notably, both Apple and Microsoft are ahead of Google in making a viable operating system for the car, but one would guess that Google can’t be far behind, looking to gain a significant foothold in the marketplace. (Mention of a Google integration with Kia may be evidence of that.) So it appears that Apple and Microsoft may be hunkering together in anticipation of a Google onslaught—and I think it’s fair to say that Apple now views Google and its Android OS as its most dangerous adversary.
Anyway, what I’m wondering about is whether there may be a path to upgrade my current set-up to full iOS for the Car integration without having to replace the whole car itself. The article said that the car computer is a “low end ARM PC made by Continental AG,” and it bears asking if it looks likely that any of the Big Three in mobile device OS support may not only get into the car software business but the *hardware* business as well—that is, supplying the computer as well as the software. Interestingly, Apple would be in the best position to do that with their decades of experience in computer manufacturing—Microsoft and Google being latecomers to the hardware game (Google’s primary manufacturer rep would appear to be Samsung, while Microsoft has slightly more experience by way of XBox and its Surface tablet). I would like to hear from those with further insights into what developments may be on the horizon for loyal (can you say ‘no bailout’?) Ford owners like me.