Galaxy S 4 on steroids: Samsung caught doping in benchmarks

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  • Reply 121 of 153

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    Yeah, this sucks and everything, but most people won't care when they come in to buy one of these. Its not like they bought it because its supposed graphics powerhouse in the first place. 



    This is only in the International Exynos 5410 version of the Galaxy S4, NOT the Snapdragon 600 model.


     


    It would also be worth pointing out that even without the overclock, the Exynos 5410 still offers double the performance of the A6 inside of the iPhone 5, and both are behind the Snapdragon 600.


     


    GFXBench 2.7 T-Rex HD C24Z16 - Offscreen (1080p):


     


    Apple A6 - 373 Frames


     


    Samsung Exynos 5410 - 794 Frames


     


    Qualcomm Snapdragon 600 - 971 Frames

  • Reply 122 of 153
    qamfqamf Posts: 87member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post


    1) So what? How does that absolve Samsung of any guilt?


    2) They could but do you have any proof that they would?


     


    And, yes, you are defending Samsung. Playing the "this isn't so bad because [insert other person/company/thing] did [insert thing they did] and it's worse!!" No one here has defended what Intel did so what is the point of bringing it up other than to deflect from Samsung's guilt?



    1.  It does not.  However, if you want to complain about people and benchmarks, complain about Intel.  I am saying that people are making a huge deal out of something that in the grand scheme of benchmark "doping" is small.

    2. would they? That depends on how bad public opinion gets.  Even Apple, who is one of the best companies in the world when it comes to PR had to admit fault when public opinion got bad enough for a problem that was super-rare.  This would require fixing the "problem" which Samsung would most likely opt to do.  From a PR perspective.



    I am not defending what Samsung did.  I am saying that people should look at he larger scope.  I am saying on a scale of "how bad was the bad thing" Samsung ranks very lower.  That is not to say what Samsung did should be defended, that is to say that many companies that do worse.



    Where was Apple Insider's story when Intel and Antutu happened?  The story that talked about how x86 was going to surpass ARM for power efficiency, which does matter to what SoC Apple could possibly use. (Intel was willing to license Atom in the past, had no takers.  Apple could do custom Atom if it was faster at the given power envelope).   Something that was far worse and not fixable (at the same power envelope, I suppose you could increase the clocks of the Atom by 20% or more, but that would drastically raise battery life) https://www.google.com/search?q=antutu+Intel&oq=antutu+Intel&aqs=chrome.0.69i57j0l3j69i62l2.2090j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



    If you dislike this kind of stuff than go after everyone.  On the scale of "how badly _____ company cheat(s/ed) benchmarks" Samsung is not very high up.  Yet people are making a huge deal of out it.  What Samsung did is wrong.  It is "less wrong" than what Intel continues to do, and Nvidia to a lesser extent than Intel.  It is just what most companies that make their own hardware do.



    -QAMF

  • Reply 123 of 153
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Funny... This article reminded me of a song:

    I figured I could have some fun changing a few words in the lyrics,,,

    ]

    How's this?

    NEIL DIAMOND - SONG SUNG BLUE LYRICS

    Samsung's screwed
    Now that they've been busted
    Samsung's screwed
    Cause they can't be trusted

    Samsung's Lies Are Subject To The Blues Now And Then
    But When You Take The Lies And Publicize
    You Might Get Caught Again
    You Will get Caught Again

    Samsung's Screwed
    Weeping like a willow
    Samsung's Screwed
    Hear Them Pay Their Shill-o.

    Funny Thing, But You Can Sing It With A Lie In Your Voice
    And Before You Know, Start To Feeling Good
    You Simply Got No Choice

    Samsung's Screwed
    They Let Google Show Them
    Samsung's Screwed
    By Their Lies you'll Know Them
  • Reply 124 of 153
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    lakings33 wrote: »
    This is only in the International Exynos 5410 version of the Galaxy S4, NOT the Snapdragon 600 model.

    It would also be worth pointing out that even without the overclock, the Exynos 5410 still offers double the performance of the A6 inside of the iPhone 5, and both are behind the Snapdragon 600.

    GFXBench 2.7 T-Rex HD C24Z16 - Offscreen (1080p):

    Apple A6 - 373 Frames

    Samsung Exynos 5410 - 794 Frames

    Qualcomm Snapdragon 600 - 971 Frames

    Which merely points out how useless those benchmarks are - since the iPhone is easily as fast in real life (and probably faster).
  • Reply 125 of 153

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by QAMF View Post


    1.  It does not.  However, if you want to complain about people and benchmarks, complain about Intel.  I am saying that people are making a huge deal out of something that in the grand scheme of benchmark "doping" is small.

    2. would they? That depends on how bad public opinion gets.  Even Apple, who is one of the best companies in the world when it comes to PR had to admit fault when public opinion got bad enough for a problem that was super-rare.  This would require fixing the "problem" which Samsung would most likely opt to do.  From a PR perspective.



    I am not defending what Samsung did.  I am saying that people should look at he larger scope.  I am saying on a scale of "how bad was the bad thing" Samsung ranks very lower.  That is not to say what Samsung did should be defended, that is to say that many companies that do worse.



    Where was Apple Insider's story when Intel and Antutu happened?  The story that talked about how x86 was going to surpass ARM for power efficiency, which does matter to what SoC Apple could possibly use. (Intel was willing to license Atom in the past, had no takers.  Apple could do custom Atom if it was faster at the given power envelope).   Something that was far worse and not fixable (at the same power envelope, I suppose you could increase the clocks of the Atom by 20% or more, but that would drastically raise battery life) https://www.google.com/search?q=antutu+Intel&oq=antutu+Intel&aqs=chrome.0.69i57j0l3j69i62l2.2090j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



    If you dislike this kind of stuff than go after everyone.  On the scale of "how badly _____ company cheat(s/ed) benchmarks" Samsung is not very high up.  Yet people are making a huge deal of out it.  What Samsung did is wrong.  It is "less wrong" than what Intel continues to do, and Nvidia to a lesser extent than Intel.  It is just what most companies that make their own hardware do.



    -QAMF



    You keep going on about with irrelevant horse shit, and yes you are defending Samsung with this horse shit. 

  • Reply 126 of 153
    This is so funny. Reminds me of the cheating Korean students in college. Yes, they were all cheating all the time.
  • Reply 127 of 153
    gatorguy wrote: »
    I hope you're not waiting for me to suddenly become a Samsung supporter.:rolleyes:
    No, just looking for the condescending reply, wrapped in a backhanded complement, that reveals to us - the average Joe - how we have mistakenly arrived at such a backwards view of reality. I'm actually here for humor as well as information, and your posts always seem to supply more of the former than the latter.
  • Reply 128 of 153
    They both provide historical facts and technical explanations to back up their opinions/posts. Their posts do not always go against Apple either. How balanced are your posts? How often do you provide technical insight? In fact, how much (little) do you understand the industry, either technically or from an investment perspective? 
    Yes but it's the superior attitude and condescension that they always provide that warms the heart and educates the masses...kind of like what you just did. To answer your question, I know nothing about the industry, but I never proclaimed to. Also I'm not interested in the investment perspective because investment in consumer tech does not offer enough return for the volatility involved. I do much better elsewhere. I did think this forum however was more for basic information and not a trade forum, so excuse for wandering in and trying to sit at the adults table.
  • Reply 129 of 153
    qamfqamf Posts: 87member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by punkndrublic View Post


    You keep going on about with irrelevant horse shit, and yes you are defending Samsung with this horse shit. 



    I dislike all cheating on benchmarks, I wish people would start caring about it more.



    I give this a much lower priority than I give to Intel's antutu cheat because of the nature and the %.



    Samsung should not have done this.



    Samsung had almost no reason to do this.



    -QAMF

  • Reply 130 of 153
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    jragosta wrote: »
    Funny... This article reminded me of a song:

    I figured I could have some fun changing a few words in the lyrics,,,

    ]

    How's this?

    NEIL DIAMOND - SONG SUNG BLUE LYRICS

    Samsung's screwed
    Now that they've been busted
    Samsung's screwed
    Cause they can't be trusted

    Samsung's Lies Are Subject To The Blues Now And Then
    But When You Take The Lies And Publicize
    You Might Get Caught Again
    You Will get Caught Again

    Samsung's Screwed
    Weeping like a willow
    Samsung's Screwed
    Hear Them Pay Their Shill-o.

    Funny Thing, But You Can Sing It With A Lie In Your Voice
    And Before You Know, Start To Feeling Good
    You Simply Got No Choice

    Samsung's Screwed
    They Let Google Show Them
    Samsung's Screwed
    By Their Lies you'll Know Them

    LOL... you are in the wrong business... You could be a lyricist or a composer...

    Seriously, I wish I had the voice to record that!
  • Reply 131 of 153
    Somebody has to be paying this guy.
  • Reply 132 of 153
    dsddsd Posts: 186member


    I love the one and only comment on the android geek site.


     


     

    Sonny Gonzalez 


    •  


    •  




    My s4 bricked I followed every step. I put back stock kernel and now my device says it detected an application trying to access information and stopped loading. Now my Wi-Fi does not work. Help


     




       


    •  

  • Reply 133 of 153
    dnd0psdnd0ps Posts: 253member


    ^New troll inbound. Brand new account eh?

  • Reply 134 of 153
    sennensennen Posts: 1,468member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post



    Somebody has to be paying this guy.


     


    Not a bad gig, get paid for posting rubbish on the internet. But Samsung's cost/benefit analysis (amongst other things) must be screwed, as these guys aren't (and haven't been) convincing anyone.

  • Reply 135 of 153
    Scumbags? Unscrupulous? Seriously??

    They have a GPU run at it's highest potential during benchmarks, and reduce it to what will run any game with no problem or app. This is purely to save battery, keep heat down and so on. Who cares if it is software activated. Given that the kernel/OS is open source, this can be tracked down and changed very easily, in just a few steps. It could also be software unlocked via update. Simple.

    Cyanogenmod for example, is easy to install and allows overclocking or GPU clock setting as an option, do you have that option on any iOS? No.

    Really this is an incredibly minor thing, of course being blown up by AI.
  • Reply 136 of 153
    qamfqamf Posts: 87member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by phimuskapsi View Post



    Scumbags? Unscrupulous? Seriously??



    They have a GPU run at it's highest potential during benchmarks, and reduce it to what will run any game with no problem or app. This is purely to save battery, keep heat down and so on. Who cares if it is software activated. Given that the kernel/OS is open source, this can be tracked down and changed very easily, in just a few steps. It could also be software unlocked via update. Simple.



    Cyanogenmod for example, is easy to install and allows overclocking or GPU clock setting as an option, do you have that option on any iOS? No.



    Really this is an incredibly minor thing, of course being blown up by AI.


    No, the issue is that the highest clock the GPU can reach with the current code being supplied to run it is 480Mhz outside of the benchmarks.



    While it is 533 (532 in Anandtech's test) in the benchmarks.



    Seeing as you cannot reach 533 default in any conditions except for some benchmarks not all, Samsung did not do as you claim.  iF If it was for all benchmarks, perhaps what you are saying would be right.  Oh, and if code was not found that made it run at those higher clocks for those benchmarks...



    Is it being overblown by AI?  I would say yes considering larger cases than than this one that concerned low power level chips that will be in phones (and tablets) competing with Apple this year have been ignored.


    Should it be swept under the rug?  Certainly not.  This article is far better than nothing, or a quick dismissal.



    -QAMF



    ADDENDUM: Wonder how long until Samsung's phones become like this one: https://semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2013/01/Sony_Core_i7_phone_prototype.jpg?


    That is what a phone on steroids would look like!   At least the battery life would theoretically be good, right?

  • Reply 137 of 153
    umumumumumum Posts: 76member


    product manufacturer makes its stuff run benchmarks well


     


    duh


     


    ai looks sadder every day


     


    when the powerpc macs, which i personally loved and still have some going, were getting trashed in benchmark after benchmark, apple and fanboys whined for years that benchmarks didn't count


     


    they didn't then, they don't now


     


    the vast majority of computing systems are far more powerful than necessary, gamers who say they 'need' ever more fps would do better to get a life, outside of hard real time/safety critical process control and doing useful* scientific/medical/engineering stuff it really doesn't matter that much, especially not on fondlephones/slabs with tiny screens


     


    * high frequency trading? no, ban it or tax transactions at 0.01 euro/dollar/pound/yen/renminbi, it's parasitic drain on the real economy with no net benefit to humanity

  • Reply 138 of 153
    tooltalktooltalk Posts: 766member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by phimuskapsi View Post



    Scumbags? Unscrupulous? Seriously??



    They have a GPU run at it's highest potential during benchmarks, and reduce it to what will run any game with no problem or app. This is purely to save battery, keep heat down and so on. Who cares if it is software activated. Given that the kernel/OS is open source, this can be tracked down and changed very easily, in just a few steps. It could also be software unlocked via update. Simple.



    Cyanogenmod for example, is easy to install and allows overclocking or GPU clock setting as an option, do you have that option on any iOS? No.



    Really this is an incredibly minor thing, of course being blown up by AI.


     


    I think you are technically correct that the whole point of Exynos Octa Big.Little design is to optimize performance/power consumption on mobile devices.  In that spirit, this benchmarkboost is all legit, but Samsung should have made it all public.  It's petty, but still unethical.


     


    At the same time, Samsung never promised "twice as fast or half the price" (eg, remember iPhone's 3G marketing campaign) or failed to deliver (eg, -- *ahem*  *cough* *cough* -- Apple's Mapgate), so this is clearly overblown.

  • Reply 139 of 153
    robmrobm Posts: 1,068member
    Scumbags? Unscrupulous? Seriously??

    They have a GPU run at it's highest potential during benchmarks, and reduce it to what will run any game with no problem or app. This is purely to save battery, keep heat down and so on. Who cares if it is software activated. Given that the kernel/OS is open source, this can be tracked down and changed very easily, in just a few steps. It could also be software unlocked via update. Simple.

    Cyanogenmod for example, is easy to install and allows overclocking or GPU clock setting as an option, do you have that option on any iOS? No.

    Really this is an incredibly minor thing, of course being blown up by AI.

    lol

    You said it mstone !
  • Reply 140 of 153
    poksipoksi Posts: 482member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pujones1 View Post





    But people buy their stuff anyway and think they better than Apple and are somehow getting the best deal out there without paying a higher price.



     


     




    That is the single reason of success of Samcrap in Germany: mentality there is interesting: As long as it is an imported product, they will look for the best price or best price/performance deal and convince themselves they made a hell of a deal. When there is german product in question, then they are full of emotions...

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