Galaxy S 4 on steroids: Samsung caught doping in benchmarks

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  • Reply 21 of 153
    Simple solution:

    [B][U]Aggregate Performance Measurement[/U][/B]
    [LIST=1]
    [*] Start the benchmark on a device with a full battery charge
    [*] Run benchmark until battery dies
    [*] Normalize results to device with largest aggregate
    [/LIST]

    In benchmarking as in lovemaking -- you don't just count the short strokes!
  • Reply 22 of 153
    droidftwdroidftw Posts: 1,009member


    Now that's funny!  I see ROM threads on XDA all the time where users are comparing benchmark scores (as if it's relevant in some way).  Maybe this will help distance people from the idea that these test scores are valuable.  What's important is how the device operates everyday during normal use.

  • Reply 23 of 153

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feynman View Post





    Yeah and if Apple did this there would be a class action lawsuit.


    It would certainly be splashed all over the tech headlines if Apple did it. I guess we'll have to wait and see if Samsung gets the same treatment.


     


    I don't think Apple would ever bother since they don't seem to truly care about the spec game. Frankly, I don't see why Samsung would even bother doing this. They're already crushing the rest of the Android competition and doing quite well vs Apple. I don't really see the payoff vs the risk of getting caught (like they now have been). Maybe they feel the risk (will people start to move to other manufacturers due to such activity?) is pretty low so, why not?

  • Reply 24 of 153
    mikejonesmikejones Posts: 323member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post


    Now that's funny!  I see ROM threads on XDA all the time where users are comparing benchmark scores (as if it's relevant in some way).  Maybe this will help distance people from the idea that these test scores are valuable.  What's important is how the device operates everyday during normal use.



    But benchmarks and spec sheets are all that matters! Not stupid things like UI responsiveness and how actual apps perform during real-world usage.

  • Reply 25 of 153
    qamfqamf Posts: 87member




    THE CLOCK RATE MAXES AT 480 INSTEAD OF 533.  NOT 300 LIKE APPLEINSIDER IS CLAIMING.



    is it bad still, yes.  But not as bad as they are saying.


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post



    Why am I not surprised.


    Probably because almost all companies do this in one way or another.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post



    Why am I not surprised? scumbags I advise all my friends and family to avoid Samsung products I suggest we all do the same.


    Why?  Almost every company does this for different benchmarks?  This would be like telling you family to avoid Intel because they do tons of optimizations when they run their benchmarks for their claims?


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alandail View Post



    doesn't that amount to fraudulent advertising?


    No, it does not.  The chip runs at 533Mhz (well, 532 according to anandtech) during some benchmarks.  Otherwise it caps at 480Mhz.



    There is nothing that talks about the specifications on the feature page, and the fine print would take care of it.



    You technically can get the GPU to hit the rate they provided, just not in a useful manner.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cyberzombie View Post



    Do I smell a class action lawsuit in their future?


    No.  At least, I don't see what it would be about.



    You can still hit that clock rate, you just cannot do it in a useful manner.



    -QAMF

  • Reply 26 of 153
    irelandireland Posts: 17,771member


    Oul Sammy, boy. Always honest.

  • Reply 27 of 153
    mikejonesmikejones Posts: 323member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by QAMF View Post




    THE CLOCK RATE MAXES AT 480 INSTEAD OF 533.  NOT 300 LIKE APPLEINSIDER IS CLAIMING.



    The 300mhz clock rate was for what the iPad 4's GPU cores run at. It was in reference to this section:


     


    Quote:


    Apple uses its own custom "Swift" CPU core design, paired with GPU cores tech it licenses from Imagination Technologies, providing four PowerVR SGX 554MP4 cores to power graphics on iPad 4.



    Samsung's Exynos 5 Octa was the first to license ARM's stock Cortex-A15 CPU core design, and pairs four of them with essentially the same Imagination GPU design as Apple, a shift from Samsung's earlier chips that formerly used ARM's Mali GPU design.


     


    ...


     


    Their shared GPU design makes the two chips easier to compare, even though Samsung's are clocked to run faster (533MHz vs 300MHz).



     


    Basically they were saying that since both Apple and Samsung were using the same GPU cores it was simple to compare GPU performance between them since the difference was only in the clock rates (which was the reference of 533mhz vs 300mhz). Reading comprehension is a good skill you might want to pick up.

  • Reply 28 of 153
    don108don108 Posts: 79member
    Not covered in this article is WHY Samsung would do this. The speed is there, why not use it for all applications? I'm sure the tech community will start guessing, and I have two possibilities:

    1) When going full speed for extended lengths of time, the chip builds up too much heat and with either shut down or either damage other hardware of damage the chip itself.

    2) When going full speed it drains the battery at an accelerated rate. The battery life would suffer so much the phone would be unsellable.
  • Reply 29 of 153
    mikejonesmikejones Posts: 323member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Don108 View Post



    Not covered in this article is WHY Samsung would do this. The speed is there, why not use it for all applications? I'm sure the tech community will start guessing, and I have two possibilities:



    1) When going full speed for extended lengths of time, the chip builds up too much heat and with either shut down or either damage other hardware of damage the chip itself.



    2) When going full speed it drains the battery at an accelerated rate. The battery life would suffer so much the phone would be unsellable.


    As you state: increased heat and faster battery drain.

  • Reply 30 of 153
    droidftwdroidftw Posts: 1,009member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post


    But benchmarks and spec sheets are all that matters! Not stupid things like UI responsiveness and how actual apps perform during real-world usage.



     


    Spec sheets can absolutely be relevant.  It seems that those who want to ignore spec sheets are usually the ones who are lacking in said department.  Though obviously not the only metric to determine worth, they can be important.  They are related to how a device runs all applications.  Benchmarks on the other hand measure how well a device runs one application (the test itself).  I'm not sure I've ever found the value of a benchmark score outside of epeen contests.

  • Reply 31 of 153
    paulmjohnsonpaulmjohnson Posts: 1,380member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Don108 View Post



    Not covered in this article is WHY Samsung would do this. The speed is there, why not use it for all applications? I'm sure the tech community will start guessing, and I have two possibilities:



    1) When going full speed for extended lengths of time, the chip builds up too much heat and with either shut down or either damage other hardware of damage the chip itself.



    2) When going full speed it drains the battery at an accelerated rate. The battery life would suffer so much the phone would be unsellable.


     


    I'd guess number 2 is the most likely.

  • Reply 32 of 153
    I'm waiting for Gatorguy and KDarling to weigh in on this issue!
    :D
  • Reply 33 of 153
    joogabahjoogabah Posts: 135member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by QAMF View Post




    THE CLOCK RATE MAXES AT 480 INSTEAD OF 533.  NOT 300 LIKE APPLEINSIDER IS CLAIMING.



    is it bad still, yes.  But not as bad as they are saying.


    Probably because almost all companies do this in one way or another.


    Why?  Almost every company does this for different benchmarks?  This would be like telling you family to avoid Intel because they do tons of optimizations when they run their benchmarks for their claims?


    No, it does not.  The chip runs at 533Mhz (well, 532 according to anandtech) during some benchmarks.  Otherwise it caps at 480Mhz.



    There is nothing that talks about the specifications on the feature page, and the fine print would take care of it.



    You technically can get the GPU to hit the rate they provided, just not in a useful manner.


    No.  At least, I don't see what it would be about.



    You can still hit that clock rate, you just cannot do it in a useful manner.



    -QAMF



     


    Predatory ethics!  I guess honesty is just for the weak minded.


  • Reply 34 of 153
    mikejonesmikejones Posts: 323member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post


     


    Spec sheets can absolutely be relevant.  It seems that those who want to ignore spec sheets are usually the ones who are lacking in said department.  Though obviously not the only metric to determine worth, they can be important.  I'm not sure I've ever found the value of a benchmark score outside of epeen contests.



    They can be relevant for certain things like display quality, audio quality, etc. In most cases, though, spec sheets are thrown out as a way to distract you from the fact that the performance of the software in the system is so abysmal that they had to have such high specs just to make it run decently. In fact, a spec sheet is more impressive if you show that you are doing just as much, if not possibly more, than your competition with lower speced devices than theirs. If my phone with half the RAM and half the CPU cores has better UI responsiveness, runs all the same apps and games, and has equally if not better performance in real-world usage how exactly is it "lacking" anything? Going around bragging to everyone about the specs of your phone is just as much epeen waving as benchmark scores.

  • Reply 35 of 153
    droidftwdroidftw Posts: 1,009member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Don108 View Post



    Not covered in this article is WHY Samsung would do this. The speed is there, why not use it for all applications? I'm sure the tech community will start guessing, and I have two possibilities:



    1) When going full speed for extended lengths of time, the chip builds up too much heat and with either shut down or either damage other hardware of damage the chip itself.



    2) When going full speed it drains the battery at an accelerated rate. The battery life would suffer so much the phone would be unsellable.


     


    If you're truly interested in the answer, you should check out some introductory writeups about the pros and cons of over-clocking.

  • Reply 36 of 153
    marskmarsk Posts: 30member
    That's why the Samsung S4 could run so damn HOT and burnt down people house.

    See the HK local news from last Saturday, a guy playing game and charging his Samsung S4 at the same time, the Samsung S4 exploded and burnt down his house.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://the-sun.on.cc/cnt/news/20130727/00407_006.html&act=url
  • Reply 37 of 153
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,328member
    This doesn't shock me one iota.

    What also doesn't shock me is this news won't make a blip in mainstream news. If Apple did something like this, it would be slathered all over major blog and news sites like CNN with headlines to match. I've yet to see SAmsung being honest about a single aspect of their products or business. But hey, apparently they're the "next Apple" or something, and we're supposed to cheer them on regardless.
  • Reply 38 of 153
    mikejonesmikejones Posts: 323member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post



    This doesn't shock me one iota.



    What also doesn't shock me is this news won't make a blip in mainstream news. If Apple did something like this, it would be slathered all over major blog and news sites like CNN with headlines to match. I've yet to see SAmsung being honest about a single aspect of their products or business. But hey, apparently they're the "next Apple" or something, and we're supposed to cheer them on regardless.


    But the Samsung apologists tell us that everyone does it. So that makes it's okay!

  • Reply 39 of 153
    What a bunch of hypocrites you all are. I bet you wouldnt dare to talk shit about apple, you were all the first to defend when apple was guilty of price fixing and could possibly be fined 500 mill, or foxconn workers suiciding because of poor working conditions. Pathetic. Wow, defending multi billion dollar companies that don't give a shit about you.

    Apple insider, why don't you grow a pair and adopt professional journalism? Do you see android central talking shit about apple? This site is a joke.
  • Reply 40 of 153
    alandailalandail Posts: 696member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by QAMF View Post


    No, it does not.  The chip runs at 533Mhz (well, 532 according to anandtech) during some benchmarks.  Otherwise it caps at 480Mhz.



    There is nothing that talks about the specifications on the feature page, and the fine print would take care of it.



     


    I completely disagree.  Benchmarks numbers are used to advertise your product as faster than your competitor for running apps.  Over clocking your processor only to run the benchmark, and not to run any other apps is flat out intentional fraudulent advertising.

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