FileMaker discontinuing Bento, will remain available to buy through Sept. 30

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  • Reply 41 of 82
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Atashi View Post


    Isn't FileMaker a subsidiary of Apple? One thing a lot of people were clamoring for was for Apple to add a database to their iWork suite. If iWork hadn't been left stagnant since 2009 I'd say maybe this were actually an option, but nowadays I doubt it.



     


    Microsoft limits their database to a top-tier more expensive package but at least they offer it as part of their Office suite. Apple charges more for that one app than either it or Microsoft charge for the rest of the office apps combined.


     


    Is it any wonder people wind up using word processors or spreadsheets for organizing data instead of doing it properly?


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    FM discontinued Bento because it didn't sell well enough to continue to maintain it.



     


    It didn't sell because it was almost useless. It was one step up from a pen and notepad. No forms, no reporting, no queries. Whoopie. Maybe if they'd built a decent app it would have sold.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nbiquity View Post



    This makes me even more interested to learn what FileMaker has to announce at the Developers conference in August.


     


    I really *WANT* to be excited, but $500!!! for a version that will create a runtime? C;mon! I like the app, but the pricing is out to lunch.

  • Reply 42 of 82
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by longterm View Post



    Second, you said that having to rely on third-party plugins is ridiculous; [...] ProTools, uses plugins; without plugins no professional studio would be able to use it to get the results that they get.


     


    For me, that actually reinforces the point you dispute.


     


    Pro Tools plug-ins enhance the app or provide alternatives to the built-in offerings, but one CAN produce an entire album, and even produce a soundtrack sync'ed to picture, with no third-party software whatsoever. One may PREFER a third-party EQ, and a third party might offer an effect you'd otherwise have to laboriously create manually, but all the tools required for even an extended workflow are built-in. The same is not true of FileMaker.

  • Reply 43 of 82
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member
    Darn%u2026 was close to investing in Bento for some new biz I'm getting into%u2026 it looked like a good solution. Well, here's hoping the next FM has both a lower price and incorporates more "bento-like" features into it. Fortunately, we'll know what's new BEFORE they discontinue Bento. I guess I'm waiting until the FM dev conference before buying in...
  • Reply 44 of 82
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


     

    Please re-read his orignal post. IMO - His point/theme was for the average user, which is the vast majority of computer users(non business) , these "vast majority"of users are not going to write there own database/app when there is 'an app for that' or hire a 'truck' like yourself to create one for them..


     


    The other side of this point might be that the above is nothing new. The 'average user' (or the 'vast majority' of users) has never done that anyway, so it isn't any more or less 'dead' than it has ever been… right?

  • Reply 45 of 82
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by johnmcboston View Post



    I'm surprised so many are cheering Bento's demise. It wasn't the best, but it was easy to use and had an easy sync between phone and computer. The replacement isn't only expensive, it's a professional program for database folks, and offers no real connectivity between devices. Even looking the FM pages today, it's all about "This the solution for your business". Why exactly is this big business software going to be a good solution for my mom that just wants to keep basic information in something more than a text file or an XL spreadsheet... (Yes, FM Go is free, but you can't use it standalone...



    Rather than kicking people to the cub, it would have been nice if they followed photoshop elements model - have a cheaper easier to use stripped down product (Filemaker, not Pro?). FMP is way too expensive. Even if they gave it to Bento folks for free, we'd get hit with a nice $200 upgrade price within a year anyways. Maybe Evernote will step in with a more database like product...


     


    There used to be a differentiated Filemaker vs Filemaker Pro version, didn't there? I think this cross-device integration is pretty important nowadays. Perhaps they'll be announcing a new lower-priced version, along with some new integration at the dev conference. One can hope. 

  • Reply 46 of 82
    lowededwookielowededwookie Posts: 1,035member
    This is really sad because I use Bento all the time for my job recording.

    I love Bento a lot especially because it scored me a free trip to Sydney to talk in the Apple Store about how I used it.

    The lovely people at FileMaker gave me a free copy of FileMaker Pro 11 (12 wasn't out at the time) but I'm struggling to grasp how to use it properly. The beauty of Bento was it allowed you easy ability to create pretty powerful databases for it's class.

    Oh well. I guess I'll have to nut out FileMaker Pro, however paying $500 (NZ) for FileMaker Pro is a bit of an ask for something you can't just pick up and run with.
  • Reply 47 of 82
    lowededwookielowededwookie Posts: 1,035member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    I've had Bento on my iPad since it first came out, and frankly found little use for it. 


    It tends to support my feeling that the meme that 'the iPad isn't for real work' is based on the idea that only spreadsheets and databases represent 'real' work.


    The fact is that you use spreadsheets and databases to write applications... point solutions. And the applications you write with such tools tend to be REALLY crappy compared to point solutions in the form of real apps.


    You could never write a calorie/exercise tracking app a tenth as good as LoseIt using a spreadsheet or database.


    I truly believe that for the vast majority of users, spreadsheets and database have passed into horse and buggy land faster then we ever could have expected.


    To the degree that they're useful, its (like traditional computers) as 'trucks'.



    I HATE people who use spreadsheets for database type work. You ALL need to be shot.


     


    Bento can be used to create some pretty good databases but just loses some reporting functionality.


     


    I also think you need to understand what a database is. Loselt IS a database. It's a specific solution created using XCode but by its very nature it IS a database. Think about what a database does. Now think about what Loselt does. Look at that the two are the same. image

  • Reply 48 of 82
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,831member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by longterm View Post


     


    Sorry, but I just don't agree with you at all.


     


    FileMaker is NOT produced by Apple, and its development team is totally separate from Apple's. There is no cross-pollination going on there.


     


    Second, you said that having to rely on third-party plugins is ridiculous; I've used digital recording software since its inception--the same software that is used to produce virtually every CD available on the market today. The most ubiquitous of these, ProTools, uses plugins; without plugins no professional studio would be able to use it to get the results that they get. 



     


    As TS notes above, Filemaker is Apple. There simply is no way around that. It's a 100% company owned subsidiary.


    And the fact that "There is no cross-pollination going on there." is precisely the problem.


     


    No one is arguing that Filemaker isn't a powerful piece of software. I am aware of its myriad of uses. But asking an app made by Apple to access my Contacts and Calendar only by using third-party plugins is problematic.


     


    IMO, instead of Bento, what Apple should have done was embrace, extend and then extinguish Filemaker Pro.


     


    Split the Windows guys off into a "totally separate development team" and let them continue to build a Windows version.


     


    Then rebuild the Mac app into a 100% no-holds-barred iWork worthy database product. Would have been much better than going the Bento route.


     


    While Filemaker dithered in its little separate silo, Evernote and Basecamp ate its lunch. The Mac still lacks a marquee Project Management app, and Mac-based salespeople are still learning to live with Daylite's flaws. The Filemaker-team-in-a-silo approach hasn't really done anything for the platform.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nbiquity View Post


    They never looked like slick native apps. 


     


    Partly because FM is a multi platform database, they had to abstract the graphics UI layer - also other compromises seemed to made the client and the DBs always look like a Windows 95 app (my opinion). 


     


     


    Thankfully, FM 12 really moved the interface forward. The FM themes make DBs look much better, though not really like native OSX or Windows. But at this point there are still a lot of "FileMakery" legacy items to worry about. What would a total rewrite look like? Hmmm



     


    Exactly. The need for Windows compatibility has really killed the potential innovation Filemaker could have brought to the platform.


     


    If Apple was willing to irritate broadcast pros using Final Cut for three whole years to start over with clean code, why are we still labouring with a half-baked Filemaker Pro in 2013?

  • Reply 49 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


     


    While Filemaker dithered in its little separate silo, Evernote and Basecamp ate its lunch. The Mac still lacks a marquee Project Management app, and Mac-based salespeople are still learning to live with Daylite's flaws. The Filemaker-team-in-a-silo approach hasn't really done anything for the platform.


     



    BaseCamp and Evernote are not database development system and are horrible ideas for the sorts of things FileMaker is used for developing. Your very statement does not show you understand what databases are for and therefore you are unable to accurately discuss the pros and cons of FileMaker Pro.


     


    You are only looking at this from an end user point of view and that in of itself does not qualify you for talking about FileMaker Pro. FileMaker Pro is a solution builder whereas BaseCamp, Evernote, and Daylite are all solutions.


     


    You rail on FileMaker Pro for being platform agnostic and yet you rave on about Evernote and Basecamp which are platform agnostic.


     


    I'm far from knowing anything about FileMaker Pro but I do know that it has a vital role to fill, one that none of the solutions you mention can fill.

  • Reply 50 of 82
    jibberjjibberj Posts: 34member
    I have purchased FileMaker 8,9,10 and all 4 versions of bento trying to find a solution for my real estate business. I found Bento lacking some necessary features, and FileMaker overkill and complicated, plus at the time, it didn't work seamlessly with my iPad and iPhone. Maybe these were never designed for our use, but I live by my database. Eventually we found a cloud based solution that does everything in the background, and lets me stick to what I do best, which is not playing games with database creation, but just inputting and retrieving information when needed quickly. All I needed was something that worked for myself and my 2 assistants. Finding a solution was not an easy task!
  • Reply 51 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by longterm View Post


    How can you say that databases are dead? That's an absurd notion: every shopping site you use on the web uses a backend database; every financial institution, store, restaurant, auto repair outlet (that's more than a greasy one-bay garage), applicance supplier--they all operate using databases and spreadsheets. 



     


    And therein, IMHO, was the deadly problem with Bento. It couldn't talk to any of those databases you're referring to.


     


    Bento could have worked if it had useful ODBC support and full AppleScript then it would have been a useful tool. But, lacking these two elements, it was essentially useless.


     


    Manage Address Book and Calendar? What's the market for that? Honestly, what were the developers thinking?

  • Reply 52 of 82
    mytdavemytdave Posts: 447member


    Filemaker Pro is a great product, and Filemaker should continue doing what they are doing and continue to be left alone by Apple.  Filemaker Pro is too expensive though...


     


    As for Bento, I truly believe that Apple should stop dicking around with iWork, and get a significant upgrade out the door soon (like yesterday if you ask me), which would also entail relieving Filemaker Inc of Bento and rolling it into the Apple iWork suite, albeit with significant improvements and fixes.  They could name the new 4th program of the suite something like "Data" or "Mine" or "Store".


     


    ...btw Frank777, there is a "marquee" project management app available for Mac, it's called FastTrack Schedule (currently v.10), and it's also cross-platform, and it supports MS Project files too.

  • Reply 53 of 82
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Wow, I didn't realize Filemaker was still in circulation, that's great to hear that so many people are using it. I loved Filemaker back in the late 90's early 00's, I used it for everything. However after the introduction of PHP and MySQL I completely lost interest. I should check it out see what's new.
  • Reply 54 of 82
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jibberj View Post



    I have purchased FileMaker 8,9,10 and all 4 versions of bento trying to find a solution for my real estate business. I found Bento lacking some necessary features, and FileMaker overkill and complicated, plus at the time, it didn't work seamlessly with my iPad and iPhone. Maybe these were never designed for our use, but I live by my database. Eventually we found a cloud based solution that does everything in the background, and lets me stick to what I do best, which is not playing games with database creation, but just inputting and retrieving information when needed quickly. All I needed was something that worked for myself and my 2 assistants. Finding a solution was not an easy task!


     


    Do you mind saying which "cloud based solution" you're using? Thanks!

  • Reply 55 of 82
    jibberjjibberj Posts: 34member
    Do you mind saying which "cloud based solution" you're using? Thanks!

    The latest one is called My Desktop. They have their own iPad app as well. I've also been super happy with the customer support.
  • Reply 56 of 82
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post



    Wow, I didn't realize Filemaker was still in circulation, that's great to hear that so many people are using it. I loved Filemaker back in the late 90's early 00's, I used it for everything. However after the introduction of PHP and MySQL I completely lost interest. I should check it out see what's new.


    The last version of Filemaker was Filemaker 4, v4 introduced by Nashoba Systems in June 1988.  Claris's first database was Filemaker II, v1.0 introduced in August 1988. Claris's next full-release database was Filemaker Pro introduced in October 1990 more than two years later. All of these were flat file database systems. Claris's last flat file version of Filemaker Pro was Filemaker Pro 2.1 (not counting Filemaker Pro Server 2) introduced in August 1993. In December 1995, Claris switched Filemaker Pro to a relational DBMS with the introduction of Filemaker Pro 3. Filemaker, Inc.'s first version of the RDBMS was Filemaker Pro 4.1v2.


     


    With the switch to the relational model, Filemaker Pro quickly became the most popular DBMS on the Mac and the second most popular DBMS on Windows. However, Filemaker Pro is a truly professional-level DBMS that is somewhat removed from its consumer database origins. With the introduction of Bento, Filemaker, Inc. returned to its product's consumer roots.


     


    It would be regrettable if the death of Bento means that death of the consumer database system as a software category.

  • Reply 57 of 82
    I am sad to see Bento go, I have enjoyed using but now need something to replace for my ipad,Will be on the look out, hope to post if able to come across anything useful, hope to check back and see others doing the same :|
  • Reply 58 of 82
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by username here View Post



    I am sad to see Bento go, I have enjoyed using but now need something to replace for my ipad,Will be on the look out


     


    They're going to stop selling it. They're not going to take away the copy you already have. Just keep using it.

  • Reply 59 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nbiquity View Post


    They never looked like slick native apps. 


     


    Partly because FM is a multi platform database, they had to abstract the graphics UI layer - also other compromises seemed to made the client and the DBs always look like a Windows 95 app (my opinion). 


     


     


    Thankfully, FM 12 really moved the interface forward. The FM themes make DBs look much better, though not really like native OSX or Windows. But at this point there are still a lot of "FileMakery" legacy items to worry about. What would a total rewrite look like? Hmmm 


     


     



    Curious what those "legacy items" are that you're talking about; having been to the FileMaker Developer's Conference last week, I was shown some of the new things that will be coming in the next version (but I'm under an NDA). Suffice to say, FileMaker has a clear and excellent plan for the future, the tip of which can be seen in FileMaker Pro 12.


     


    As to whether a FileMaker solution can look like a native app: a) it ISN'T a native app and will never be; b) the GUI is up to the developer; I've seen and developed some beautiful solutions in FileMaker, but I've also seen tons of awful designs, mainly because of FileMaker's ease of entry; c) FileMaker themes are only a starting point, and shouldn't be looked at as the limit of what can be done in FileMaker. I design solutions from the ground up all the time, and I'll just say that FileMaker "Next" will make that even better and easier.

  • Reply 60 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post


     


    And therein, IMHO, was the deadly problem with Bento. It couldn't talk to any of those databases you're referring to.


     


    Bento could have worked if it had useful ODBC support and full AppleScript then it would have been a useful tool. But, lacking these two elements, it was essentially useless.


     


    Manage Address Book and Calendar? What's the market for that? Honestly, what were the developers thinking?



    Bento wasn't designed for more than casual users. 



    As to integrating with Address Book & Calendar: there's a huge market for this, as evidenced by the conversations I see on this among good FileMaker developers. It's ot a question of "managing" them, it's a question of integrating with them.

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