FaceTime and iMessages both need more platform agnosticism, and the latter also needs to stop arbitrarily reordering messages and making sure they're not delayed 24 hours. There isn't a lot of advantage, if any at all, to using these services when Skype and WatsApp are available as platform-agnostic alternatives.
I think I heard that the iMessage order screw-ups are getting a fix in iOS7-I hope so. Still, even as it is, it's a great service, especially when messages are accessible from my iPhone and MBA.
I don't think Skype works consistently well across multiple device types.
I know folks are referencing what Steve previously said about FaceTime going platform-agnostic. The hold-up, as I understand it, isn't simply Apple not wanting to do so because they want ecosystem lock-in. The problem-again, as I think I've read-is that Apple does not own the IP to make that platform interoperability possible. They are seeking to acquire the IP, license it, or otherwise avoid infringement.
Lastly, I don't think Apple should make FT platform-agnostic. For Apple's sake, it makes their own hardware valuable; Apple would otherwise need to do QA on a very wide range of crappy underpowered devices to ensure the protocol is properly implemented. Only FT (Apple) would catch all the flack if FT did not work very well on non-Apple devices. Ultimately, that would simply dilute the perceived value and polish of FaceTime. Why would Apple do this? For consumers, even Apple users would suffer when attempting to FT with non-Apple users. Again, the ill will only only accrues to Apple.
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18px;"> "Everyday, more people connect face-to-face on the iPhone than any other phone."</span>
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18px;">It would be cool to get stats on that - e.g. FaceTime usage v. Skype.</span>
The thing is neither facetime nor iMessage work on my iPhone or iPad, but they work on my macs. I've deleted and set up from scratch again my iPhone several times.
There are also other glitches in my accounts which went from iTools to dotMac to mobileMe to iCloud.
Things may work ok for those who started out with an iCloud account, but for me it was/is bad. So I j stick w/ Skype for the time being, particularly having friends in countries wher macs are so rare that accessing a photo stream from there yields a blank page or error, while the same displays fine in the US and Western Europe.
"Everyday, more people connect face-to-face on the iPhone than any other phone."
It would be cool to get stats on that - e.g. FaceTime usage v. Skype.
You need to distinguish between Skype video and Skype voice. Skype voice is inordinately better.
I know very few people who use Skype video, compared to Skype voice. I know even fewer folks who use Skype video on mobile devices; most I know use Skype video on the desktop and laptops and Skype audio on phones and iPod touches.
I tried Skype several years ago because it was free and new to me. It was a horrible experience. Remembering Skype login credentials, having an additional phone number, atrocious video quality, dropped connections seemingly every minute, very confusing pricing structures, you name it.
Hopefully that was fixed, but I never cared to try.
I agree, and Apple promised that's what they would do when they launched FaceTime. {that Facetime would work on other platforms}
That's not quite what Apple promised. They said that Facetime would be an open standard - which means that other companies (including Skype) would be free to use it on their platforms. They never implied that Apple would release Facetime for the other platforms.
Of course, it doesn't appear that they followed through on that promise, either. (or maybe they did but no one else chose to support it - but that doesn't seem as likely).
I agree, and Apple promised that's what they would do when they launched FaceTime. But I don't see it coming anytime soon especially if, for example, they release the new iPhone 5C as a phone that accesses Cloud services (without traditional cellular functionality) - if that happens they'd have no reason to launch those apps on other platforms, they'd keep them Apple-only in order to lure people to Apple's products so they could chat with their FaceTime/iMessage friends and family.
I don't take the cynical view that Apple merely wants to lock people into their ecosystem out of greed. Another take is that Apple creates software and services to benefit their own users, you know, people who specifically have chosen to invest in Apple's hardware products.
I think Facetime's biggest strength is just making everything easy and showing practical uses. We've had Skype and others for years but having to get people to signup IDs, get a webcam for their PC and install the software was a pain. My mother has never used a webcam in her life but was able to see her granddaughter at the tap of a button on the iPad. It's probably the feature she loves most and the iPad screen with fullscreen view really makes for a good experience as well as being able to easily flip the camera round.
This ad is good and shows a lot of unique scenarios and again, practical situations where the feature would be useful. There's nobody break dancing around a phone while making a call in a field next to a sheep like Samsung ads or going on about how some specs are better on competing devices for the money. The focus is people and how people feel using the product.
I'm almost certain that when FaceTime first appeared, Steve Jobs promised it would be cross platform. Given a choice between Skype and FaceTime, Skype doesn't even compare, not to mention all the troll communications from beautiful women stranded in Ghana on the other hand, since there are cross platform alternatives, is there a need for Messages and FaceTime to be cross platform? I just don't communicate with non-Apple device owners near as much. That's not my fault they chose wrong.
That's not quite what Apple promised. They said that Facetime would be an open standard - which means that other companies (including Skype) would be free to use it on their platforms. They never implied that Apple would release Facetime for the other platforms.
Of course, it doesn't appear that they followed through on that promise, either. (or maybe they did but no one else chose to support it - but that doesn't seem as likely).
FWIW I don't believe Mr; Jobs also said it would be a free standard. Perhaps Apple's offer had too many strings or costs attached to garner any interest from standards bodies. Perhaps Apple didn't follow thru in the first place and offer the IP. Perhaps someone whispered in Mr Jobs ear that Facetime was more valuable as Apple-only IP and forget what you said. Who knows. At the end of the day it didn't happen for whatever reason.
The ad is nice, but I still feel that video chat is a very awkward thing.
Maybe if you use it all the time, but for me it's been a godsend. My parents live in Arizona, whereas I (and our new baby daughter) live in Kansas City. Facetime means that they can frequently see their granddaughter without having to drive up all the time. Yes, I know that you can use cross-platform services like Skype as well, but Skype has never been as good of quality as Facetime in my experience.
I don't take the cynical view that Apple merely wants to lock people into their ecosystem out of greed. Another take is that Apple creates software and services to benefit their own users, you know, people who specifically have chosen to invest in Apple's hardware products.
Then I would like to see you explain exactly why they're yet to support most BlueTooth profiles; on the iPhone they even go out of their way to remove support for HID, which is supported to some extent on the iPad. For example: you want to transfer a picture over Bluetooth and that's not supported, because OBEX is not supported; same thing for contacts, everyone else in the industry allows you to exchange contact cards through bluetooth, which is also a great way to synchronize contact information between Apple and non-Apple devices, but on the Apple cam, if you want to send someone else your own contact card, you have to do it through E-mail. How do you explain this? Also, how do you explain not being able to even read SMSes (not to mention write them, receive and make voice calls) on an iPad when all the hardware required to do it is present and you've paid premium for it?
I don't take the cynical view that Apple merely wants to lock people into their ecosystem out of greed. Another take is that Apple creates software and services to benefit their own users, you know, people who specifically have chosen to invest in Apple's hardware products.
Mine's not a cynical view, I'm merely pointing out a business strategy. They may at some point open it up, but if the next iPhone (which was my point) is a cloud services phone using FaceTime, iMessage, Skype and other such services instead of cellular (which is very possible), it would make good business sense to keep FaceTime on Apple products only for the time being at least, then perhaps later they might open it up, but early days consumers would be lured to the Apple products if they wanted to chat with friends and family on FaceTime/iMessage services.
There's no incentive it seems for the company at this time to open it up, but I'd still like to see it at some point - as someone with Apple products, opening up FaceTime and iMessage to non-Apple devices (through an open standard, or however they do it) it would make my Apple products more valuable instantly (in usability), and that is something that I could see Apple doing.
You know what would really help Apple with it's Facetime push? Bringing back the f*cking iPhone dock that they discontinued for no f*cking reason at all.
It's all great to hold the phone in your hand and all, but for meetings, a dock of some kind is essential. I spend a lot of time integrating Skype into proper video conferences, but despite the fact that almost everyone had an iPhone, I never get any requests for integrating Facetime.
Skype will rule for all "serious" video calls until Apple realises that there are people that want to do more with it than video sex each other from bed.
Then I would like to see you explain exactly why they're yet to support most BlueTooth profiles; on the iPhone they even go out of their way to remove support for HID, which is supported to some extent on the iPad. For example: you want to transfer a picture over Bluetooth and that's not supported, because OBEX is not supported; same thing for contacts, everyone else in the industry allows you to exchange contact cards through bluetooth, which is also a great way to synchronize contact information between Apple and non-Apple devices, but on the Apple cam, if you want to send someone else your own contact card, you have to do it through E-mail. How do you explain this? Also, how do you explain not being able to even read SMSes (not to mention write them, receive and make voice calls) on an iPad when all the hardware required to do it is present and you've paid premium for it?
Sending files over bluetooth has always been a buggy mess that simply didn't work on 90% of the hardware that it was supposed to work on. As a result, almost no one uses bluetooth to send files of any kind. You are just one, unique, very persistent user that wants and uses the functionality that the rest of humanity walked away from years ago. Now that Wi-Fi is so ubiquitous, things are even less likely to change.
Comments
I agree but I think that is not the technology's fault so much as a user preference thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper
"Everyday, more people connect face-to-face on the iPhone than any other phone."
It would be cool to get stats on that - e.g. FaceTime usage v. Skype.
Well to be literal, they said face-to-face on an iphone, which would include any video chat application running on phone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico
FaceTime and iMessages both need more platform agnosticism, and the latter also needs to stop arbitrarily reordering messages and making sure they're not delayed 24 hours. There isn't a lot of advantage, if any at all, to using these services when Skype and WatsApp are available as platform-agnostic alternatives.
I think I heard that the iMessage order screw-ups are getting a fix in iOS7-I hope so. Still, even as it is, it's a great service, especially when messages are accessible from my iPhone and MBA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Why? Skype will work across multiple device type.
I don't think Skype works consistently well across multiple device types.
I know folks are referencing what Steve previously said about FaceTime going platform-agnostic. The hold-up, as I understand it, isn't simply Apple not wanting to do so because they want ecosystem lock-in. The problem-again, as I think I've read-is that Apple does not own the IP to make that platform interoperability possible. They are seeking to acquire the IP, license it, or otherwise avoid infringement.
Lastly, I don't think Apple should make FT platform-agnostic. For Apple's sake, it makes their own hardware valuable; Apple would otherwise need to do QA on a very wide range of crappy underpowered devices to ensure the protocol is properly implemented. Only FT (Apple) would catch all the flack if FT did not work very well on non-Apple devices. Ultimately, that would simply dilute the perceived value and polish of FaceTime. Why would Apple do this? For consumers, even Apple users would suffer when attempting to FT with non-Apple users. Again, the ill will only only accrues to Apple.
The thing is neither facetime nor iMessage work on my iPhone or iPad, but they work on my macs. I've deleted and set up from scratch again my iPhone several times.
There are also other glitches in my accounts which went from iTools to dotMac to mobileMe to iCloud.
Things may work ok for those who started out with an iCloud account, but for me it was/is bad. So I j stick w/ Skype for the time being, particularly having friends in countries wher macs are so rare that accessing a photo stream from there yields a blank page or error, while the same displays fine in the US and Western Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper
"Everyday, more people connect face-to-face on the iPhone than any other phone."
It would be cool to get stats on that - e.g. FaceTime usage v. Skype.
You need to distinguish between Skype video and Skype voice. Skype voice is inordinately better.
I know very few people who use Skype video, compared to Skype voice. I know even fewer folks who use Skype video on mobile devices; most I know use Skype video on the desktop and laptops and Skype audio on phones and iPod touches.
I tried Skype several years ago because it was free and new to me. It was a horrible experience. Remembering Skype login credentials, having an additional phone number, atrocious video quality, dropped connections seemingly every minute, very confusing pricing structures, you name it.
Hopefully that was fixed, but I never cared to try.
That's not quite what Apple promised. They said that Facetime would be an open standard - which means that other companies (including Skype) would be free to use it on their platforms. They never implied that Apple would release Facetime for the other platforms.
Of course, it doesn't appear that they followed through on that promise, either. (or maybe they did but no one else chose to support it - but that doesn't seem as likely).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugbug
Well to be literal, they said face-to-face on an iphone, which would include any video chat application running on phone
Great point! Why would Apple make FT platform agnostic when they already all platform agnostic apps on the Appstore?
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I agree but I think that is not the technology's fault so much as a user preference thing.
Yes and no. I see two reasons for all the awkward:
1. Social and cultural infancy regarding usage of the technology. It's different and we're not used to it.
2. You can't comfortably look each other in the eye. The camera needs to be embedded in the display.
I'm certain that the first hurdle will be overcome with time, but I'm not so confident regarding the second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon
I agree, and Apple promised that's what they would do when they launched FaceTime. But I don't see it coming anytime soon especially if, for example, they release the new iPhone 5C as a phone that accesses Cloud services (without traditional cellular functionality) - if that happens they'd have no reason to launch those apps on other platforms, they'd keep them Apple-only in order to lure people to Apple's products so they could chat with their FaceTime/iMessage friends and family.
I don't take the cynical view that Apple merely wants to lock people into their ecosystem out of greed. Another take is that Apple creates software and services to benefit their own users, you know, people who specifically have chosen to invest in Apple's hardware products.
^ Looks like she just got a sext she didn't ask for. This is certainly one use for Facetime:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120912152133AAlfW9Z
I think Facetime's biggest strength is just making everything easy and showing practical uses. We've had Skype and others for years but having to get people to signup IDs, get a webcam for their PC and install the software was a pain. My mother has never used a webcam in her life but was able to see her granddaughter at the tap of a button on the iPad. It's probably the feature she loves most and the iPad screen with fullscreen view really makes for a good experience as well as being able to easily flip the camera round.
This ad is good and shows a lot of unique scenarios and again, practical situations where the feature would be useful. There's nobody break dancing around a phone while making a call in a field next to a sheep like Samsung ads or going on about how some specs are better on competing devices for the money. The focus is people and how people feel using the product.
http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story/facetime-open-standard-never-happened/2012-12-06
FWIW I don't believe Mr; Jobs also said it would be a free standard. Perhaps Apple's offer had too many strings or costs attached to garner any interest from standards bodies. Perhaps Apple didn't follow thru in the first place and offer the IP. Perhaps someone whispered in Mr Jobs ear that Facetime was more valuable as Apple-only IP and forget what you said. Who knows. At the end of the day it didn't happen for whatever reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus009
The ad is nice, but I still feel that video chat is a very awkward thing.
Maybe if you use it all the time, but for me it's been a godsend. My parents live in Arizona, whereas I (and our new baby daughter) live in Kansas City. Facetime means that they can frequently see their granddaughter without having to drive up all the time. Yes, I know that you can use cross-platform services like Skype as well, but Skype has never been as good of quality as Facetime in my experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
I don't take the cynical view that Apple merely wants to lock people into their ecosystem out of greed. Another take is that Apple creates software and services to benefit their own users, you know, people who specifically have chosen to invest in Apple's hardware products.
Then I would like to see you explain exactly why they're yet to support most BlueTooth profiles; on the iPhone they even go out of their way to remove support for HID, which is supported to some extent on the iPad. For example: you want to transfer a picture over Bluetooth and that's not supported, because OBEX is not supported; same thing for contacts, everyone else in the industry allows you to exchange contact cards through bluetooth, which is also a great way to synchronize contact information between Apple and non-Apple devices, but on the Apple cam, if you want to send someone else your own contact card, you have to do it through E-mail. How do you explain this? Also, how do you explain not being able to even read SMSes (not to mention write them, receive and make voice calls) on an iPad when all the hardware required to do it is present and you've paid premium for it?
Their Ads always make me smile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
I don't take the cynical view that Apple merely wants to lock people into their ecosystem out of greed. Another take is that Apple creates software and services to benefit their own users, you know, people who specifically have chosen to invest in Apple's hardware products.
Mine's not a cynical view, I'm merely pointing out a business strategy. They may at some point open it up, but if the next iPhone (which was my point) is a cloud services phone using FaceTime, iMessage, Skype and other such services instead of cellular (which is very possible), it would make good business sense to keep FaceTime on Apple products only for the time being at least, then perhaps later they might open it up, but early days consumers would be lured to the Apple products if they wanted to chat with friends and family on FaceTime/iMessage services.
There's no incentive it seems for the company at this time to open it up, but I'd still like to see it at some point - as someone with Apple products, opening up FaceTime and iMessage to non-Apple devices (through an open standard, or however they do it) it would make my Apple products more valuable instantly (in usability), and that is something that I could see Apple doing.
You know what would really help Apple with it's Facetime push? Bringing back the f*cking iPhone dock that they discontinued for no f*cking reason at all.
It's all great to hold the phone in your hand and all, but for meetings, a dock of some kind is essential. I spend a lot of time integrating Skype into proper video conferences, but despite the fact that almost everyone had an iPhone, I never get any requests for integrating Facetime.
Skype will rule for all "serious" video calls until Apple realises that there are people that want to do more with it than video sex each other from bed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico
Then I would like to see you explain exactly why they're yet to support most BlueTooth profiles; on the iPhone they even go out of their way to remove support for HID, which is supported to some extent on the iPad. For example: you want to transfer a picture over Bluetooth and that's not supported, because OBEX is not supported; same thing for contacts, everyone else in the industry allows you to exchange contact cards through bluetooth, which is also a great way to synchronize contact information between Apple and non-Apple devices, but on the Apple cam, if you want to send someone else your own contact card, you have to do it through E-mail. How do you explain this? Also, how do you explain not being able to even read SMSes (not to mention write them, receive and make voice calls) on an iPad when all the hardware required to do it is present and you've paid premium for it?
Sending files over bluetooth has always been a buggy mess that simply didn't work on 90% of the hardware that it was supposed to work on. As a result, almost no one uses bluetooth to send files of any kind. You are just one, unique, very persistent user that wants and uses the functionality that the rest of humanity walked away from years ago. Now that Wi-Fi is so ubiquitous, things are even less likely to change.