Come on, that was a different time, there were totally different economics involved, and most importantly they weren't following those in a race to the bottom with the iMac, they were creating a whole new "gestalt."
Now, it would just be, "Well Samsung, HTC, Pantech, and a bunch of other Android companies are making cheap, plastic phones, so why don't we?"
The situations couldn't be more different.
So it's different because you say it's different?
Who says that the thinking is "Samsung, HTC, Pantech, and a bunch of other Android companies are making cheap, plastic phones, so why don't we?" Rather, Apple is probably thinking "iPhone growth is slowing down so it's time to expand the product line to appeal to different audiences". Since the high volume, younger crowd is larger than the platinum coated diamond encrusted crowd, it is entirely reasonable to go after the high volume part of the market.
Not to mention, of course, that someone said Apple would never do it. Since Apple already did it, that person was wrong.
Come on, that was a different time, there were totally different economics involved, and most importantly they weren't following those in a race to the bottom with the iMac, they were creating a whole new "gestalt."
Now, it would just be, "Well Samsung, HTC, Pantech, and a bunch of other Android companies are making cheap, plastic phones, so why don't we?"
Apple needs to differentiate the 5S from the 5C. The best way to do this is make it plastic. If the 5C was metal it would totally canabalize 5S sales. Samsungs flagship phone that sells for $700+ is plastic also. And after the iPhone the Galaxy line is the most popular.
When has Apple ever thought like that?
Just because the competition sells $2000 plastic laptops has Apple thought, "heck why are we wasting all this money on aluminum when people are willing to spend the same for plastic!"
Apple was the one who moved forward and away from plastic. Why would they look at the Galaxy and decide to go backward?
Who says that the thinking is "Samsung, HTC, Pantech, and a bunch of other Android companies are making cheap, plastic phones, so why don't we?" Rather, Apple is probably thinking "iPhone growth is slowing down so it's time to expand the product line to appeal to different audiences". Since the high volume, younger crowd is larger than the platinum coated diamond encrusted crowd, it is entirely reasonable to go after the high volume part of the market.
Not to mention, of course, that someone said Apple would never do it. Since Apple already did it, that person was wrong.
And that's why there is an Apple net book. Oh wait.
And that's why there is an Apple net book. Oh wait.
No one's talking about Apple making a netbook.
Rather, the iPad is Apple's answer to the netbook. Similarly, there's no reason they can't make a colored phone as their answer to the low end market.
People with no imagination........
And besides, what does that have to do with the claim that Apple would never release a colored plastic product which is what I was responding to with the iMac picture?
Rather, the iPad is Apple's answer to the netbook. Similarly, there's no reason they can't make a colored phone as their answer to the low end market.
People with no imagination........
And besides, what does that have to do with the claim that Apple would never release a colored plastic product which is what I was responding to with the iMac picture?
It was in regards to your comment to expand its product to attract a different audience.
As for colored iPhones, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with cheap looking colored plastic.
It was in regards to your comment to expand its product to attract a different audience.
As for colored iPhones, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with cheap looking colored plastic.
And that's why I put the picture of the iMacs. You said they should used anodized aluminum because colored plastic looks cheap. The iMacs show that you're wrong.
And that's why I put the picture of the iMacs. You said they should used anodized aluminum because colored plastic looks cheap. The iMacs show that you're wrong.
If Apple brought out those iMacs today I don't think they would get the same response they got over 15 years ago.
Today people would say they look cheap.
Apple has brought tech into a new paradigm where the materials used for products actually matter.
They made us change our minds about plastic 3 years ago with the introduction of the iPhone 4 and the replacement of the MacBook with the Air. Apple taught us that plastic is the past and aluminum and glass is the future.
They moved all of their products aside from a few accessories away from plastic and into the future of tech. Apple is hurting no one but themselves by releasing a plastic iPhone in 2013.
If Apple brought out those iMacs today I don't think they would get the same response they got over 15 years ago.
Today people would say they look cheap.
Apple has brought tech into a new paradigm where the materials used for products actually matter.
They made us change our minds about plastic 3 years ago with the introduction of the iPhone 4 and the replacement of the MacBook with the Air. Apple taught us that plastic is the past and aluminum and glass is the future.
They moved all of their products aside from a few accessories away from plastic and into the future of tech. Apple is hurting no one but themselves by releasing a plastic iPhone in 2013.
Yeah, Apple doesn't know anything. They should fire everybody and just read the anonymous posts on AI. :no:
If Apple brought out those iMacs today I don't think they would get the same response they got over 15 years ago.
Today people would say they look cheap.
Apple has brought tech into a new paradigm where the materials used for products actually matter.
They made us change our minds about plastic 3 years ago with the introduction of the iPhone 4 and the replacement of the MacBook with the Air. Apple taught us that plastic is the past and aluminum and glass is the future.
They moved all of their products aside from a few accessories away from plastic and into the future of tech. Apple is hurting no one but themselves by releasing a plastic iPhone in 2013.
"They made us change our minds . . . " and "Apple taught us . . ." etc.
They did no such thing. They used materials in a way that you were supposed to respond to out of the natural inclinations of your own natural senses. I'm going to focus on you, nothing personal, as an example of how misguided the antiplasticians are around these new phones.
The trouble is that you have never trained your own natural senses. You are missing a huge, looming point about these plastic, colored phones, and you ought to not go on and on about them till you get it, or you are going to look like the world's biggest fool when they come out and they start selling milllions and millions for reasons unknown to you. Here is the point:
Aluminum and glass and stainless steel are cold to the hand and this lends these phones seriousness, gravitas, the feeling of precision. Like an old Leica, as Steve Jobs said, when he introduced the glass and stainless phone.
These plastic, colored phones will be warm in the hand and look warm to the eye, and they'll be seen and felt as warm additions to the lives of their owners. So far Apple has ignored this market, as has Nokia, as has Samsung with their revolting silver plastics. Nokia uses the wrong colors and sharp edges. Note that Apple is not using Fisher-Price/Google primary colors but rather soft and warm pastels.
Sorry, I'm tired of reading your unconsidered hatred of plastic just because it isn't what Apple taught you. Maybe you should look at some pictures of Japanese "Fruits," the kids who deliberately go after color and materials for their own sake, to get a feel for the market.
And that's why I put the picture of the iMacs. You said they should used anodized aluminum because colored plastic looks cheap. The iMacs show that you're wrong.
Just because they used it in the past doesn't mean they'll use it now. But if they make the plastic translucent for the iPhone, that would be awesome.
Why would Apple turn on their own philosophy and design pattern with their NUMBER ONE SELLING MOST PROFITABLE PRODUCT?
Because this isn't the most profitable product. It will be the second most profitable. The real iPhone will be the most profitable, and it remains metal and glass, as it should.
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is just sexist crap.
Your entire post is nonsense. And what moron wears colored pants, anyway?
"They made us change our minds . . . " and "Apple taught us . . ." etc.
They did no such thing. They used materials in a way that you were supposed to respond to out of the natural inclinations of your own natural senses. I'm going to focus on you, nothing personal, as an example of how misguided the antiplasticians are around these new phones.
The trouble is that you have never trained your own natural senses. You are missing a huge, looming point about these plastic, colored phones, and you ought to not go on and on about them till you get it, or you are going to look like the world's biggest fool when they come out and they start selling milllions and millions for reasons unknown to you. Here is the point:
Aluminum and glass and stainless steel are cold to the hand and this lends these phones seriousness, gravitas, the feeling of precision. Like an old Leica, as Steve Jobs said, when he introduced the glass and stainless phone.
These plastic, colored phones will be warm in the hand and look warm to the eye, and they'll be seen and felt as warm additions to the lives of their owners. So far Apple has ignored this market, as has Nokia, as has Samsung with their revolting silver plastics. Nokia uses the wrong colors and sharp edges. Note that Apple is not using Fisher-Price/Google primary colors but rather soft and warm pastels.
Sorry, I'm tired of reading your unconsidered hatred of plastic just because it isn't what Apple taught you. Maybe you should look at some pictures of Japanese "Fruits," the kids who deliberately go after color and materials for their own sake, to get a feel for the market.
I never said these weren't going to sell well.
Of course a cheaper iPhone is going to sell better than the more expensive one.
Also I like the idea of a colorful new iPhone for Asian markets and the youth in western markets.
But I don't know how you can say plastic will have an instance emotional heart connect with people.
I could make the same statements and assumptions you've made, with the iPod touch. It feels great in the hand and has great colors. But are you suggesting the iPod touch would sell better if it was plastic?
I guess I don't see the point you're trying to make. In todays world everyone knows plastic is cheap, and that is not a description Apple should want for any of their products.
None of us know for certain about these new iPhones rumours, but I have had a few new thoughts about them.
1. Could these cases actually be coloured 'liquid metal' & not actually be plastic? Non of us have seen them in real life yet, so could this be possible? Colour can be added to glass when it's being made, so can liquid metal be given a colour?
2. Could they be meant as a replacement for the highest end iPod touches, hence the colours? Like an iPod touch, but actually be an iPhone at the top end iPod prices, or closer to it.
We'll all know in Sept or Oct, when Apple decide to launch their new iPhones etc. I'm hoping for Sept, naturally, & waiting for the top-end '5' replacement.
Rather, the iPad is Apple's answer to the netbook. Similarly, there's no reason they can't make a colored phone as their answer to the low end market.
People with no imagination........
And besides, what does that have to do with the claim that Apple would never release a colored plastic product which is what I was responding to with the iMac picture?
Yes, you ARE talking about Apple making a netbook, in the sense that you're entire argument -- "as their answer to the low end market" -- is saying that Apple should engage in some race to the bottom. If you really believe that, then good. And, as I said, the second they start doing that I'm done as a shareholder. That wasn't the company I signed up for.
As to your iMac example, I didn't think I had to explain this in my first post, but obviously ...
What I MEANT was that they wouldn't/shouldn't do that NOW! You see a beautiful rMBP at the cafe, with the Apple on the lid, and you know exactly what you're looking at. It's not an effing Dell. It's not some POS HP. It's a Mac! There are TONS of $300 POS laptops out there for people who prefer that. If that's what you want, then you won't be buying an MBA.
This idea that Apple should ALL OF A SUDDEN (since the dark days, at least) try and appeal to the whole market, from the bottom to the top, seems so entirely foreign to me that I don't even know where to begin to criticize it. Why the hell should Apple appeal to the "low end market?!" That part of the market is already saturaturated with crap that indistinguishable from the other crap there. If someone wants the low end of the market product, they already have a million choices. Let them buy Acer.
A cheap iPhone doesn't make sense to me now, it didn't make sense to me before, and it won't make sense to me in the future. As I said before, the company I signed on for wasn't a company that thought to themselves, "Oh, let's make some plastic piece of junk so we can make dents in 'market share.'"
That's Samsung's job.
EDIT: When I say, "That's Samsung's job," I don't mean all of their products, obviously. Heck, I have a Samsung HDTV and a Samsung BD player, both of which I'm more than happy with. Although, I think the HDTV has a dead pixel. But unless you are looking for it specifically, you'll never notice; especially from normal viewing distance.
Of course a cheaper iPhone is going to sell better than the more expensive one.
Also I like the idea of a colorful new iPhone for Asian markets and the youth in western markets.
But I don't know how you can say plastic will have an instance emotional heart connect with people.
I could make the same statements and assumptions you've made, with the iPod touch. It feels great in the hand and has great colors. But are you suggesting the iPod touch would sell better if it was plastic?
I guess I don't see the point you're trying to make. In todays world everyone knows plastic is cheap, and that is not a description Apple should want for any of their products.
I'm glad you're open to the idea that they will sell well in other markets. I tried to cover this the other day.
There are stages in cultural development when plastic does have an "emotional heart connect" with people, and that comes and goes even within single nationalities. A few years ago, Bakelite and celluloid bracelets, rings, radios from the 30s were hugely desirable retro objects in American and British shops. When they first came out in the 30s they were hugely popular as new objects too. When you see them you know why: they are soft and warm and delicious. If you don't see that, you are simply—so far— "deaf" to those visual and tactile tones. The remedy is to find someone who does get these tones, maybe smoke some pot, and go to an antique store and look and feel the stuff. Sensory retraining.
The iPod touch in aluminum is cold and precise even in anodized colors, and i'd love to replace my old scratched-up, rounded-back stainless steel ones with the new version, but I would like even more the flat-back plastic ones if they chose to make them, mostly because they would be less expensive and they could go caseless. A lot of others will feel the same way, still others will prefer the aluminum.
Point is, on the one hand, polymers are warm. (I lived with the 2nd generation white iBook for many years, and never got tired of feeling it.) But Apple's beadblasted matte aluminum is also some of the most erotic stuff ever made in metal. The back of the original iPad is even shaped like certain body surfaces. And one can't keep one's hands off the bottom of the Air.
Both materials are desirable.
Edit: @AaronJ, Big news for you. It isn't the bottom of the market that these phones will be aimed at. It's the young taste-driven segment of the market, the ones who in my day used to buy records, record players and Walkmans. They used to buy iPods, maybe in your day. Very important slice of the market, in case you haven't noticed. Maybe I should be directing this to jragosta too.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is just sexist crap.
Men's pants in those exact same colours were the big item this summer all over North America.
I stand corrected
So it's different because you say it's different?
Who says that the thinking is "Samsung, HTC, Pantech, and a bunch of other Android companies are making cheap, plastic phones, so why don't we?" Rather, Apple is probably thinking "iPhone growth is slowing down so it's time to expand the product line to appeal to different audiences". Since the high volume, younger crowd is larger than the platinum coated diamond encrusted crowd, it is entirely reasonable to go after the high volume part of the market.
Not to mention, of course, that someone said Apple would never do it. Since Apple already did it, that person was wrong.
When has Apple ever thought like that?
Just because the competition sells $2000 plastic laptops has Apple thought, "heck why are we wasting all this money on aluminum when people are willing to spend the same for plastic!"
Apple was the one who moved forward and away from plastic. Why would they look at the Galaxy and decide to go backward?
And that's why there is an Apple net book. Oh wait.
No one's talking about Apple making a netbook.
Rather, the iPad is Apple's answer to the netbook. Similarly, there's no reason they can't make a colored phone as their answer to the low end market.
People with no imagination........
And besides, what does that have to do with the claim that Apple would never release a colored plastic product which is what I was responding to with the iMac picture?
It was in regards to your comment to expand its product to attract a different audience.
As for colored iPhones, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with cheap looking colored plastic.
And that's why I put the picture of the iMacs. You said they should used anodized aluminum because colored plastic looks cheap. The iMacs show that you're wrong.
If Apple brought out those iMacs today I don't think they would get the same response they got over 15 years ago.
Today people would say they look cheap.
Apple has brought tech into a new paradigm where the materials used for products actually matter.
They made us change our minds about plastic 3 years ago with the introduction of the iPhone 4 and the replacement of the MacBook with the Air. Apple taught us that plastic is the past and aluminum and glass is the future.
They moved all of their products aside from a few accessories away from plastic and into the future of tech. Apple is hurting no one but themselves by releasing a plastic iPhone in 2013.
Yeah, Apple doesn't know anything. They should fire everybody and just read the anonymous posts on AI. :no:
"They made us change our minds . . . " and "Apple taught us . . ." etc.
They did no such thing. They used materials in a way that you were supposed to respond to out of the natural inclinations of your own natural senses. I'm going to focus on you, nothing personal, as an example of how misguided the antiplasticians are around these new phones.
The trouble is that you have never trained your own natural senses. You are missing a huge, looming point about these plastic, colored phones, and you ought to not go on and on about them till you get it, or you are going to look like the world's biggest fool when they come out and they start selling milllions and millions for reasons unknown to you. Here is the point:
Aluminum and glass and stainless steel are cold to the hand and this lends these phones seriousness, gravitas, the feeling of precision. Like an old Leica, as Steve Jobs said, when he introduced the glass and stainless phone.
These plastic, colored phones will be warm in the hand and look warm to the eye, and they'll be seen and felt as warm additions to the lives of their owners. So far Apple has ignored this market, as has Nokia, as has Samsung with their revolting silver plastics. Nokia uses the wrong colors and sharp edges. Note that Apple is not using Fisher-Price/Google primary colors but rather soft and warm pastels.
Sorry, I'm tired of reading your unconsidered hatred of plastic just because it isn't what Apple taught you. Maybe you should look at some pictures of Japanese "Fruits," the kids who deliberately go after color and materials for their own sake, to get a feel for the market.
Just because they used it in the past doesn't mean they'll use it now. But if they make the plastic translucent for the iPhone, that would be awesome.
No, but it DOES mean that all the people complaining that "Apple would never do that" are wrong.
Oh, and consider the plastic MacBooks, as well.
Originally Posted by blackbook
Why would Apple turn on their own philosophy and design pattern with their NUMBER ONE SELLING MOST PROFITABLE PRODUCT?
Because this isn't the most profitable product. It will be the second most profitable. The real iPhone will be the most profitable, and it remains metal and glass, as it should.
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is just sexist crap.
Your entire post is nonsense. And what moron wears colored pants, anyway?
I never said these weren't going to sell well.
Of course a cheaper iPhone is going to sell better than the more expensive one.
Also I like the idea of a colorful new iPhone for Asian markets and the youth in western markets.
But I don't know how you can say plastic will have an instance emotional heart connect with people.
I could make the same statements and assumptions you've made, with the iPod touch. It feels great in the hand and has great colors. But are you suggesting the iPod touch would sell better if it was plastic?
I guess I don't see the point you're trying to make. In todays world everyone knows plastic is cheap, and that is not a description Apple should want for any of their products.
Never do it again after they transitioned to metal/glass.
... which were discontinued in favor of a metal glass design years ago... Yup.
Want to bet?
None of us know for certain about these new iPhones rumours, but I have had a few new thoughts about them.
1. Could these cases actually be coloured 'liquid metal' & not actually be plastic? Non of us have seen them in real life yet, so could this be possible? Colour can be added to glass when it's being made, so can liquid metal be given a colour?
2. Could they be meant as a replacement for the highest end iPod touches, hence the colours? Like an iPod touch, but actually be an iPhone at the top end iPod prices, or closer to it.
We'll all know in Sept or Oct, when Apple decide to launch their new iPhones etc. I'm hoping for Sept, naturally, & waiting for the top-end '5' replacement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
No one's talking about Apple making a netbook.
Rather, the iPad is Apple's answer to the netbook. Similarly, there's no reason they can't make a colored phone as their answer to the low end market.
People with no imagination........
And besides, what does that have to do with the claim that Apple would never release a colored plastic product which is what I was responding to with the iMac picture?
Yes, you ARE talking about Apple making a netbook, in the sense that you're entire argument -- "as their answer to the low end market" -- is saying that Apple should engage in some race to the bottom. If you really believe that, then good. And, as I said, the second they start doing that I'm done as a shareholder. That wasn't the company I signed up for.
As to your iMac example, I didn't think I had to explain this in my first post, but obviously ...
What I MEANT was that they wouldn't/shouldn't do that NOW! You see a beautiful rMBP at the cafe, with the Apple on the lid, and you know exactly what you're looking at. It's not an effing Dell. It's not some POS HP. It's a Mac! There are TONS of $300 POS laptops out there for people who prefer that. If that's what you want, then you won't be buying an MBA.
This idea that Apple should ALL OF A SUDDEN (since the dark days, at least) try and appeal to the whole market, from the bottom to the top, seems so entirely foreign to me that I don't even know where to begin to criticize it. Why the hell should Apple appeal to the "low end market?!" That part of the market is already saturaturated with crap that indistinguishable from the other crap there. If someone wants the low end of the market product, they already have a million choices. Let them buy Acer.
A cheap iPhone doesn't make sense to me now, it didn't make sense to me before, and it won't make sense to me in the future. As I said before, the company I signed on for wasn't a company that thought to themselves, "Oh, let's make some plastic piece of junk so we can make dents in 'market share.'"
That's Samsung's job.
EDIT: When I say, "That's Samsung's job," I don't mean all of their products, obviously. Heck, I have a Samsung HDTV and a Samsung BD player, both of which I'm more than happy with. Although, I think the HDTV has a dead pixel. But unless you are looking for it specifically, you'll never notice; especially from normal viewing distance.
I'm glad you're open to the idea that they will sell well in other markets. I tried to cover this the other day.
There are stages in cultural development when plastic does have an "emotional heart connect" with people, and that comes and goes even within single nationalities. A few years ago, Bakelite and celluloid bracelets, rings, radios from the 30s were hugely desirable retro objects in American and British shops. When they first came out in the 30s they were hugely popular as new objects too. When you see them you know why: they are soft and warm and delicious. If you don't see that, you are simply—so far— "deaf" to those visual and tactile tones. The remedy is to find someone who does get these tones, maybe smoke some pot, and go to an antique store and look and feel the stuff. Sensory retraining.
The iPod touch in aluminum is cold and precise even in anodized colors, and i'd love to replace my old scratched-up, rounded-back stainless steel ones with the new version, but I would like even more the flat-back plastic ones if they chose to make them, mostly because they would be less expensive and they could go caseless. A lot of others will feel the same way, still others will prefer the aluminum.
Point is, on the one hand, polymers are warm. (I lived with the 2nd generation white iBook for many years, and never got tired of feeling it.) But Apple's beadblasted matte aluminum is also some of the most erotic stuff ever made in metal. The back of the original iPad is even shaped like certain body surfaces. And one can't keep one's hands off the bottom of the Air.
Both materials are desirable.
Edit: @AaronJ, Big news for you. It isn't the bottom of the market that these phones will be aimed at. It's the young taste-driven segment of the market, the ones who in my day used to buy records, record players and Walkmans. They used to buy iPods, maybe in your day. Very important slice of the market, in case you haven't noticed. Maybe I should be directing this to jragosta too.