Investor Carl Icahn reveals 'large position' in Apple, advises Tim Cook to buy back more stock [u]

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  • Reply 21 of 68
    Oh Great. Like Apple did not have enough to worry about, no they have to pacify the iCahn. We shall see if he truly sees long-term value in the company and will be a long-term investor, or if he is just going to try and get Apple to buyback more stock and/or increase its dividend so that he can sell his shares at a higher price within the next few months to a year. My vote right now, based just on his two tweets is the latter.
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  • Reply 22 of 68
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Fitzgerald: The rich are different than you and me.
    Hemingway: Yes, they have more money.

    Me: And have immunity via the good ol' boy network.

    Santorum: There is no class system in America.
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  • Reply 23 of 68
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,521member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


     


    To which source do you attribute the $1 billion figure?



    It doesn't matter.  The previous poster is right.  Carl Icahn can announce his position on Twitter regardless of size.  The fact that it results in a benefit to him is purely a reflection of the respect he has earned.  Like I said earlier, we should all be so lucky.

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  • Reply 24 of 68
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    rogifan wrote: »
    What say you Larry Ellison? :D

    Having Carl invested heavily in Apple is bad especially with him calling to drain Apple's bank that Jobs build up. Carl is famous for making himself rich and destroying companies he invests in. Ellison may be right as Apple rarely used to cater to Wall Street.
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  • Reply 25 of 68
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    B
    sog35 wrote: »
    Icahn is an amazing investor.  And he usually holds his investments for a while.  This is a great plus for stockholders.  Its almost the equivelant of Buffet buying Apple.

    BS. Nothing like Buffet.
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  • Reply 26 of 68
    jakebjakeb Posts: 563member


    Is this why AAPL is up almost 5% today? Damn.

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  • Reply 27 of 68

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    Correct me if I am wrong but if Apple buy back more stock and Icahn holds, wouldn't that eventually make him the largest shareholder by far and give him more control over Apple?



    No. Not by a long shot.


     


    Moreover, 'largest' shareholder does not mean much. 

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  • Reply 27 of 68
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member


    Icahn always knows how to insult the rank and file of a corporation. You don't talk to Tim Cook about buying back more stock. Apple's CFO is the man you speak to and the man Tim Cook relies on.

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  • Reply 29 of 68
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TBell View Post





    Having Carl invested heavily in Apple is bad especially with him calling to drain Apple's bank that Jobs build up. Carl is famous for making himself rich and destroying companies he invests in. Ellison may be right as Apple rarely used to cater to Wall Street.


     


    Correct on both of your comments. Icahn is a drain for any corporation. His near take down of Yahoo ultimately had him cash out and Yahoo has been climbing ever since.


     


    Apple already has a strategic plan in place for the next several years. Icahn will dump his shares when APPL reaches between $550-$600.

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  • Reply 30 of 68

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Creid1987 View Post



    ICahn is a long term value investor whose long term track record, on a total IRR basis, exceeds Warren Buffet's. Google it.


    I realize that a lot of private equity and hedge funds like to use IRR, but it's a fairly useless metric. Also, very easy to manipulate.

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  • Reply 31 of 68
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Marvin wrote: »
    The largest shareholder has over $19b invested in Apple. I highly doubt Icahn invested anywhere near that much. He invested $320m in Netflix. He invested in Dell too:

    http://business.financialpost.com/2013/08/01/carl-icahn-sues-dell-in-latest-attempt-to-foil-us24-4-billion-buyout/?__lsa=cd79-4685

    He can be influential with other shareholders though despite not having a majority share. It doesn't sound like he's investing in Apple in order to enact any changes.


    What are you talking about no changes? He just announced he talked to Cook about spending even more of Apple's cash to buy stock back, which 1) is a big change, and 2) benefits Carl, but perhaps not Apple.
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  • Reply 32 of 68
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Correct on both of your comments. Icahn is a drain for any corporation. His near take down of Yahoo ultimately had him cash out and Yahoo has been climbing ever since.

    Apple already has a strategic plan in place for the next several years. Icahn will dump his shares when APPL reaches between $550-$600.

    Hmm...I'll save this quote for if/when AAPL get back to that share price.
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  • Reply 33 of 68
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,585moderator
    tbell wrote: »
    What are you talking about no changes? He just announced he talked to Cook about spending even more of Apple's cash to buy stock back, which 1) is a big change, and 2) benefits Carl, but perhaps not Apple.

    It depends if the emphasis was on the word "now" - "a larger buyback should be done now". He may have meant Apple should buy back more shares in the near term, not buy back more shares than the $60 billion or so. It doesn't make a lot of sense to buyback shares when they are high value, Apple should buy more when they are lower priced and less after it goes up so that it adds more value to the remaining shares.

    I take your point that the fact he's talking to Cook indicates he wants to have some influence over their decisions though.
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  • Reply 34 of 68
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    tbell wrote: »
    Having Carl invested heavily in Apple is bad especially with him calling to drain Apple's bank that Jobs build up. Carl is famous for making himself rich and destroying companies he invests in. Ellison may be right as Apple rarely used to cater to Wall Street.

    So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?
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  • Reply 35 of 68

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    The billionaire also revealed he had a conversation with Apple's CEO on Tuesday, in which Icahn shared his belief that "a larger buyback should be done now." 


    While I am generally fine with the idea of buybacks, I have three issues with the timing now:


     


    1) If it involves bringing back the cash stash from abroad, it is tax-inefficient and not worth it;


     


    2) The window for really low-cost debt financing may have passed;


     


    3) I'd have preferred that Apple used up its buyback quota ($36B, I think?) when the stock was trading between $390 and $450 (if necessary, by doubling the amount of debt they issued). At nearly $500 now and with the stock on a likely upward trajectory (I think that sub-$450 days are now gone for good), Apple's going to be able to get back fewer and fewer shares for the money.

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  • Reply 36 of 68

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?


    You're right about that: the stock shot up around 2 PM today when financial media announced the tweet from Icahn. Obviously the market considers this to be massively good news.


     


    Maybe we should call him iCahn....image

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  • Reply 37 of 68
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thompr View Post


    It doesn't matter.  The previous poster is right.  Carl Icahn can announce his position on Twitter regardless of size.  The fact that it results in a benefit to him is purely a reflection of the respect he has earned.  Like I said earlier, we should all be so lucky.



     


    Sure it matters. It's either being accurately reported (or passed along as fact), or it isn't. So which is it?

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  • Reply 38 of 68
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    herbapou wrote: »
    imo Apple did what it had to do regarding dividends and buybacks.  It should not add more but instead focus on innovation and small acquisitions.

    I think we just got a "Blue Horseshow Loves Anacott Steel"

    LOL. Exactly.
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  • Reply 39 of 68
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    rogifan wrote: »
    So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?

    He has not had time to destroy Netflix because as soon as he announced his purchase Netflix implemented a poison pill change to its corporate governance rules. This was designed to prevent Carl from interfering with the governance of Netflix. Carl might have given Netflix a short stock boost, but Netflix also has been performing well to which he gets zero credit as he does not hold a board seat.

    Short term investors like Carl because he can often influence short term changes that are good for some of those short term investors, but he does not care about the long term health of the company. He tried to get Yahoo to sell itself to Microsoft. This nearly destroyed the company. He meddled with Chrysler as well.
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  • Reply 40 of 68
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    rogifan wrote: »
    So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?

    No it is because short term investors are hoping Carl can convince Apple to spend its rainy day fund by borrowing more money to buy back its own stock at an accelerated pace. He wants to profit from the Apple buying back the stock he has at a higher price.
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