Oh Great. Like Apple did not have enough to worry about, no they have to pacify the iCahn. We shall see if he truly sees long-term value in the company and will be a long-term investor, or if he is just going to try and get Apple to buyback more stock and/or increase its dividend so that he can sell his shares at a higher price within the next few months to a year. My vote right now, based just on his two tweets is the latter.
To which source do you attribute the $1 billion figure?
It doesn't matter. The previous poster is right. Carl Icahn can announce his position on Twitter regardless of size. The fact that it results in a benefit to him is purely a reflection of the respect he has earned. Like I said earlier, we should all be so lucky.
Having Carl invested heavily in Apple is bad especially with him calling to drain Apple's bank that Jobs build up. Carl is famous for making himself rich and destroying companies he invests in. Ellison may be right as Apple rarely used to cater to Wall Street.
Icahn is an amazing investor. And he usually holds his investments for a while. This is a great plus for stockholders. Its almost the equivelant of Buffet buying Apple.
Correct me if I am wrong but if Apple buy back more stock and Icahn holds, wouldn't that eventually make him the largest shareholder by far and give him more control over Apple?
No. Not by a long shot.
Moreover, 'largest' shareholder does not mean much.
Icahn always knows how to insult the rank and file of a corporation. You don't talk to Tim Cook about buying back more stock. Apple's CFO is the man you speak to and the man Tim Cook relies on.
Having Carl invested heavily in Apple is bad especially with him calling to drain Apple's bank that Jobs build up. Carl is famous for making himself rich and destroying companies he invests in. Ellison may be right as Apple rarely used to cater to Wall Street.
Correct on both of your comments. Icahn is a drain for any corporation. His near take down of Yahoo ultimately had him cash out and Yahoo has been climbing ever since.
Apple already has a strategic plan in place for the next several years. Icahn will dump his shares when APPL reaches between $550-$600.
The largest shareholder has over $19b invested in Apple. I highly doubt Icahn invested anywhere near that much. He invested $320m in Netflix. He invested in Dell too:
He can be influential with other shareholders though despite not having a majority share. It doesn't sound like he's investing in Apple in order to enact any changes.
What are you talking about no changes? He just announced he talked to Cook about spending even more of Apple's cash to buy stock back, which 1) is a big change, and 2) benefits Carl, but perhaps not Apple.
Correct on both of your comments. Icahn is a drain for any corporation. His near take down of Yahoo ultimately had him cash out and Yahoo has been climbing ever since.
Apple already has a strategic plan in place for the next several years. Icahn will dump his shares when APPL reaches between $550-$600.
Hmm...I'll save this quote for if/when AAPL get back to that share price.
What are you talking about no changes? He just announced he talked to Cook about spending even more of Apple's cash to buy stock back, which 1) is a big change, and 2) benefits Carl, but perhaps not Apple.
It depends if the emphasis was on the word "now" - "a larger buyback should be done now". He may have meant Apple should buy back more shares in the near term, not buy back more shares than the $60 billion or so. It doesn't make a lot of sense to buyback shares when they are high value, Apple should buy more when they are lower priced and less after it goes up so that it adds more value to the remaining shares.
I take your point that the fact he's talking to Cook indicates he wants to have some influence over their decisions though.
Having Carl invested heavily in Apple is bad especially with him calling to drain Apple's bank that Jobs build up. Carl is famous for making himself rich and destroying companies he invests in. Ellison may be right as Apple rarely used to cater to Wall Street.
So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?
The billionaire also revealed he had a conversation with Apple's CEO on Tuesday, in which Icahn shared his belief that "a larger buyback should be done now."
While I am generally fine with the idea of buybacks, I have three issues with the timing now:
1) If it involves bringing back the cash stash from abroad, it is tax-inefficient and not worth it;
2) The window for really low-cost debt financing may have passed;
3) I'd have preferred that Apple used up its buyback quota ($36B, I think?) when the stock was trading between $390 and $450 (if necessary, by doubling the amount of debt they issued). At nearly $500 now and with the stock on a likely upward trajectory (I think that sub-$450 days are now gone for good), Apple's going to be able to get back fewer and fewer shares for the money.
So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?
You're right about that: the stock shot up around 2 PM today when financial media announced the tweet from Icahn. Obviously the market considers this to be massively good news.
It doesn't matter. The previous poster is right. Carl Icahn can announce his position on Twitter regardless of size. The fact that it results in a benefit to him is purely a reflection of the respect he has earned. Like I said earlier, we should all be so lucky.
Sure it matters. It's either being accurately reported (or passed along as fact), or it isn't. So which is it?
So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?
He has not had time to destroy Netflix because as soon as he announced his purchase Netflix implemented a poison pill change to its corporate governance rules. This was designed to prevent Carl from interfering with the governance of Netflix. Carl might have given Netflix a short stock boost, but Netflix also has been performing well to which he gets zero credit as he does not hold a board seat.
Short term investors like Carl because he can often influence short term changes that are good for some of those short term investors, but he does not care about the long term health of the company. He tried to get Yahoo to sell itself to Microsoft. This nearly destroyed the company. He meddled with Chrysler as well.
So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?
No it is because short term investors are hoping Carl can convince Apple to spend its rainy day fund by borrowing more money to buy back its own stock at an accelerated pace. He wants to profit from the Apple buying back the stock he has at a higher price.
Comments
Hemingway: Yes, they have more money.
Me: And have immunity via the good ol' boy network.
Santorum: There is no class system in America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
To which source do you attribute the $1 billion figure?
It doesn't matter. The previous poster is right. Carl Icahn can announce his position on Twitter regardless of size. The fact that it results in a benefit to him is purely a reflection of the respect he has earned. Like I said earlier, we should all be so lucky.
Having Carl invested heavily in Apple is bad especially with him calling to drain Apple's bank that Jobs build up. Carl is famous for making himself rich and destroying companies he invests in. Ellison may be right as Apple rarely used to cater to Wall Street.
BS. Nothing like Buffet.
Is this why AAPL is up almost 5% today? Damn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
Correct me if I am wrong but if Apple buy back more stock and Icahn holds, wouldn't that eventually make him the largest shareholder by far and give him more control over Apple?
No. Not by a long shot.
Moreover, 'largest' shareholder does not mean much.
Icahn always knows how to insult the rank and file of a corporation. You don't talk to Tim Cook about buying back more stock. Apple's CFO is the man you speak to and the man Tim Cook relies on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Having Carl invested heavily in Apple is bad especially with him calling to drain Apple's bank that Jobs build up. Carl is famous for making himself rich and destroying companies he invests in. Ellison may be right as Apple rarely used to cater to Wall Street.
Correct on both of your comments. Icahn is a drain for any corporation. His near take down of Yahoo ultimately had him cash out and Yahoo has been climbing ever since.
Apple already has a strategic plan in place for the next several years. Icahn will dump his shares when APPL reaches between $550-$600.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creid1987
ICahn is a long term value investor whose long term track record, on a total IRR basis, exceeds Warren Buffet's. Google it.
I realize that a lot of private equity and hedge funds like to use IRR, but it's a fairly useless metric. Also, very easy to manipulate.
What are you talking about no changes? He just announced he talked to Cook about spending even more of Apple's cash to buy stock back, which 1) is a big change, and 2) benefits Carl, but perhaps not Apple.
Hmm...I'll save this quote for if/when AAPL get back to that share price.
It depends if the emphasis was on the word "now" - "a larger buyback should be done now". He may have meant Apple should buy back more shares in the near term, not buy back more shares than the $60 billion or so. It doesn't make a lot of sense to buyback shares when they are high value, Apple should buy more when they are lower priced and less after it goes up so that it adds more value to the remaining shares.
I take your point that the fact he's talking to Cook indicates he wants to have some influence over their decisions though.
So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
The billionaire also revealed he had a conversation with Apple's CEO on Tuesday, in which Icahn shared his belief that "a larger buyback should be done now."
While I am generally fine with the idea of buybacks, I have three issues with the timing now:
1) If it involves bringing back the cash stash from abroad, it is tax-inefficient and not worth it;
2) The window for really low-cost debt financing may have passed;
3) I'd have preferred that Apple used up its buyback quota ($36B, I think?) when the stock was trading between $390 and $450 (if necessary, by doubling the amount of debt they issued). At nearly $500 now and with the stock on a likely upward trajectory (I think that sub-$450 days are now gone for good), Apple's going to be able to get back fewer and fewer shares for the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
So that's why AAPL was up almost 5% today? Becaus the market expects Ichan to destroy Apple? Has he destroyed Netflix?
You're right about that: the stock shot up around 2 PM today when financial media announced the tweet from Icahn. Obviously the market considers this to be massively good news.
Maybe we should call him iCahn....
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr
It doesn't matter. The previous poster is right. Carl Icahn can announce his position on Twitter regardless of size. The fact that it results in a benefit to him is purely a reflection of the respect he has earned. Like I said earlier, we should all be so lucky.
Sure it matters. It's either being accurately reported (or passed along as fact), or it isn't. So which is it?
LOL. Exactly.
He has not had time to destroy Netflix because as soon as he announced his purchase Netflix implemented a poison pill change to its corporate governance rules. This was designed to prevent Carl from interfering with the governance of Netflix. Carl might have given Netflix a short stock boost, but Netflix also has been performing well to which he gets zero credit as he does not hold a board seat.
Short term investors like Carl because he can often influence short term changes that are good for some of those short term investors, but he does not care about the long term health of the company. He tried to get Yahoo to sell itself to Microsoft. This nearly destroyed the company. He meddled with Chrysler as well.
No it is because short term investors are hoping Carl can convince Apple to spend its rainy day fund by borrowing more money to buy back its own stock at an accelerated pace. He wants to profit from the Apple buying back the stock he has at a higher price.