I don't get your fascination with larger screens. The iPhone 5 screen is perfect for 90% of mobile task users need.
I don't get some people's fascination with larger screens either. But I really don't get some people's need to argue how iPhone 5's screen is perfect or just right. It isn't. There is no such thing as a perfect size given that everyone has a different hand size.
There is really no need to convince people they are wrong on a very subjective issue. Let it rest.
I am going to laugh so hard when the 5C is more expensive than the 5S rather than less as so many seem to be predicting.
Unlikely. But I too would enjoy that. Not because that would prove many wrong. But because it would signal that Apple is still choosing its own path, and not capitulating to the calls for a cheaper phone.
The 5C will only be available in a 16GB model with less RAM, CPU and GPU performance.
The 5S will come in 32, 64 and 128GB capacities.
Both will have the same camera and finger scanning tech.
The first part makes sense but the second part is pretty much known untrue.
The 5C will not have fingerprint scanning as yields are troublesome and the sensor is expensive enough that it cannot be put into the 5C at that price point. The fingerprint scanner is a key new feature to drive upgrades and higher end users to the 5S.
I don't get some people's fascination with larger screens either. But I really don't get some people's need to argue how iPhone 5's screen is perfect or just right. It isn't. There is no such thing as a perfect size given that everyone has a different hand size.
There is really no need to convince people they are wrong on a very subjective issue. Let it rest.
The issue is that introducing another size will fragment the app ecosystem. Also, it would be pandering to a small subset of noisy techies - most of which would never buy an iPhone to begin with - who make a larger screen size sound like more than what it is, a niche feature. The reason Apple is so popular is because the do not deal in niches when it comes to phones. They make their phones for the masses. I would rather not have a large screen device that would harm the image of the iphone when it's sacrifices (poor battery life, pixel quality, app ecosystem destabilization, portability, ect...). The noisy subset want Apple to get a larger screen size so they can say Apple is playing catchup in screen size (like that's some sort of innovation). If Apple goes with a bigger screen it should be because there is some advantage to having a phone that big, and considering Apple's iOS device line up with the iPad mini there just isn't an advantage to the iPhone being bigger than it is other than saying "we also have a big screen". That is not a justifiable reason to ruin their ecosystem. Peoples opinions are subjective, however the call for a larger screen is detrimental to Apple as a company margins and mantra of finding the best solution and not the 10 best solutions.
The issue is that introducing another size will fragment the app ecosystem. Also, it would be pandering to a small subset of noisy techies - most of which would never buy an iPhone to begin with - who make a larger screen size sound like more than what it is, a niche feature. The reason Apple is so popular is because the do not deal in niches when it comes to phones. They make their phones for the masses. I would rather not have a large screen device that would harm the image of the iphone when it's sacrifices (poor battery life, pixel quality, app ecosystem destabilization, portability, ect...). The noisy subset want Apple to get a larger screen size so they can say Apple is playing catchup in screen size (like that's some sort of innovation). If Apple goes with a bigger screen it should be because there is some advantage to having a phone that big, and considering Apple's iOS device line up with the iPad mini there just isn't an advantage to the iPhone being bigger than it is other than saying "we also have a big screen". That is not a justifiable reason to ruin their ecosystem. Peoples opinions are subjective, however the call for a larger screen is detrimental to Apple as a company margins and mantra of finding the best solution and not the 10 best solutions.
First of all there that been fragmentation in iOS land for some time. It hasn't been that big of a deal. We are not talking about dozens of displays or resolutions like they have for Android just one addition. Developers would quickly and easily modify their apps just like they did for all the previous changes.
I have no idea why you think the techies are requesting this. Although I am sure some techies might prefer a larger screen that is not the key demographic. Pretty much anyone with less than perfect eyesight which is most people over the age of 40 would love an easier to read iPhone. Women also might be a huge demographic since with a purse they don't mind the larger size. Smart phone usage has changed dramatically in the last few years and it is hard to argue that a larger screen is not preferable for pretty much any task that requires you view the display. Landscape mode is also used far more often than in the past and one handed use much less of a need.
The iPad is not a viable substitute. I have an iPad and it is true that at home I use it far more often than my iPhone 5 so in that sense it has essentially replaced my iPhone for everything except calls and texts at my house. But taking it on the road with me is not an option. It is far too big to carry in my pocket like I would be able to do with a 5" iPhone. Additionally, it has no phone feature. I still need to take calls and texts and need those features. I would also hate to need to make a 911 call and not have that option and try and call the police or an ambulance with Skype. And finally unlike my iPhone with an unlimited call/text/data plan there are no affordable unlimited data options for the iPad.
Apple will very likely make a larger version next year but will continue making the 4" as well. This year the focus will be on the iPhone 5C and the fingerprint for the 5S. But Apple will not simply abandon a $50 billion market for larger displays for too much longer. I am sure part of the reason for the delay was technical issues and not making compromises as Tim Cook suggested. But I also know that Apple always likes to release products slowly to maximize sales and for this year the 5C and fingerprint are the focus. The iPhone has grown large enough to the point there is a need to address a far larger customer base like they have done in all their other product lines. next year the focus will be on the iPhone 6 with a bigger display. Count on it.
Huh? Some people are stupid enough to believe this. Heck Gene Munster thinks Apple will leave Siri off this phone.
I don't think they will. At this point, Siri is part of the iPhone standard install with the exception of the iPhone 4 which is going bye bye, so I don't think Apple would do that. I think the iPhone 5C is just a less expensive case with the same guts of an iPhone 5 and the iPhone 5S is one with fingerprint ID, faster processor, better camera, maybe an updated voice/data chip (with integrated NFC?), more RAM, more storage options, maybe a better screen technology, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple made a larger screen model mid-year since Apple probably couldn't release all of these products at the same time since demand would create havoc for their production lines, so maybe they'll release these models now and then within a quarter or two announce a large screen model. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did it that way.
I don't think they will. At this point, Siri is part of the iPhone standard install with the exception of the iPhone 4 which is going bye bye, so I don't think Apple would do that. I think the iPhone 5C is just a less expensive case with the same guts of an iPhone 5 and the iPhone 5S is one with fingerprint ID, faster processor, better camera, maybe an updated voice/data chip (with integrated NFC?), more RAM, more storage options, maybe a better screen technology, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple made a larger screen model mid-year since Apple probably couldn't release all of these products at the same time since demand would create havoc for their production lines, so maybe they'll release these models now and then within a quarter or two announce a large screen model. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did it that way.
I agree with everything in your post except the part about NFC. I doubt Apple will add that unless it augments Passbook.
It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone. This is what they used to do with the iPad as the big Spring announcement. It would also allow them to use newer components in the larger version which requires less engineering with more room inside the shell. There will likely be a lot of angry people that would not have bought a 5S had they known a larger version was coming 5 or 6 months later but it is will pay off big for the future and then people will understand their schedule and make their decisions accordingly.
I agree with everything in your post except the part about NFC. I doubt Apple will add that unless it augments Passbook.
It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone. This is what they used to do with the iPad as the big Spring announcement. It would also allow them to use newer components in the larger version which requires less engineering with more room inside the shell. There will likely be a lot of angry people that would not have bought a 5S had they known a larger version was coming 5 or 6 months later but it is will pay off big for the future and then people will understand their schedule and make their decisions accordingly.
I just heard that, I believe it was Qualcomm, was going to release or has released a new voice/data chip with NFC built in, so to use this updated chip that you get NFC whether you like it or not. Again, I'm going strictly from memory on an article I read. I agree that Apple may or may not implement NFC, but if they had it, I wouldn't mind if it was there so future iOS updates. Since I didn't hear anything at WWDC about NFC and I've not read anywhere that NFC functionality is part of iOS 7, you're probably right, but if the voice/data chips have them onboard, then maybe they could add that functionality later on. I know it's a stretch, that's why I put it in with a question mark. Because it's a maybe, not a definite. But an updated voice/data chip is PROBABLY part of the iPhone 5S w/ or w/o NFC.
Apple unfortunately, won't talk about future products unless they feel they need to. Several reasons for that. One, they don't want to repeat what happened to Osborne Computer back in the 80's. They made a future product announcement too soon and what happened was no one bought the existing product and the company went out of business as a result. I know people always want to know about future products, but it's a double edged sword to talk about something too soon before they release the product. I think the reasoning behind the MacPro announcement was that it was at WWDC, Apple has had a lot of flack over not coming out with a new MacPro system, but honestly it's not Apple's fault. They had to wait for Intel to release the Thunderbolt chip sets that actually support XEON chips and since the completely new redesign, they couldn't release the product any sooner since TB 2 is new and so are the 12 core chips, etc., etc. Since the current MacPro doesn't sell that much, they aren't losing much business, so for them to make an announcement like that, it doesn't really hurt sales.
I just think it's doubtful that Apple will make an announcement for a larger screen model, UNLESS, they have something to show that's a working product and they just delay shipping it due to production capabilities and waiting for components to become available similar to that of the MacPro system.
I hope this makes sense.
Either way, I think there are enough people that know Apple is working on a larger screen model, but last i heard (no one directly from Apple, it was from a rumor site), that they haven't made the final decision as to screen size. As they say, rumors are just rumors. Apple likes to keep control over future product announcements for several reasons. One, as to not disrupt currents sales, which is understandable. Two, they don't want to announce unless they know the shipment dates. Three, to keep others guessing and lastly, because it makes the product announcement more exciting. We, by nature, always want to know what we're getting for Christmas before we open our presents, but sometimes It's better to be surprised. It makes it more enjoyable.
It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone.
Yes, good insight.
...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.
...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.
Both of your posts are spot on, IMO.
I think it's better if they did it for two reasons. It keeps the anti-Apple people from saying they aren't innovating, plus from a production level perspective, they might not be able to make products fast enough, regardless of the screen size and model since it's a feeding frenzy like a pack of hungry piranha feasting on fresh meat.
Plus it would help increase quarterly sales throughout the year rather than releasing everything for one quarter.
...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.
Both of your posts are spot on, IMO.
If I had perfect vision I would be happier with the current 4" version but I don't and sometimes have trouble reading small print. The Zoom feature is a real PITA to use for rare occasions when I need it so that is not really an option. Turn it on in settings and you can see what I mean. I don't want zoom I want a bigger display. But I think a larger display will even appeal to many people with 20/20 vision simply because some people now prefer larger screen for a whole host of reasons. whether it is browsing the web, watching a video, looking at your photos, or playing a game...it is a better experience with a larger screen.
It is good the keep the 4" iPhone around for the diehards who like that size and because they use the phone in one hand often or don't tend to look at the display for any extended time, but I am confident Apple will release a larger iPhone probably around April or at the latest in the fall of next year. And like Drblank said above it will also keep product buzz and sales more constant year round. There is a big dip in sales in the quarter prior to a new release.
First of all there that been fragmentation in iOS land for some time. It hasn't been that big of a deal. We are not talking about dozens of displays or resolutions like they have for Android just one addition. Developers would quickly and easily modify their apps just like they did for all the previous changes.
I have no idea why you think the techies are requesting this. Although I am sure some techies might prefer a larger screen that is not the key demographic. Pretty much anyone with less than perfect eyesight which is most people over the age of 40 would love an easier to read iPhone. Women also might be a huge demographic since with a purse they don't mind the larger size. Smart phone usage has changed dramatically in the last few years and it is hard to argue that a larger screen is not preferable for pretty much any task that requires you view the display. Landscape mode is also used far more often than in the past and one handed use much less of a need.
The iPad is not a viable substitute. I have an iPad and it is true that at home I use it far more often than my iPhone 5 so in that sense it has essentially replaced my iPhone for everything except calls and texts at my house. But taking it on the road with me is not an option. It is far too big to carry in my pocket like I would be able to do with a 5" iPhone. Additionally, it has no phone feature. I still need to take calls and texts and need those features. I would also hate to need to make a 911 call and not have that option and try and call the police or an ambulance with Skype. And finally unlike my iPhone with an unlimited call/text/data plan there are no affordable unlimited data options for the iPad.
Apple will very likely make a larger version next year but will continue making the 4" as well. This year the focus will be on the iPhone 5C and the fingerprint for the 5S. But Apple will not simply abandon a $50 billion market for larger displays for too much longer. I am sure part of the reason for the delay was technical issues and not making compromises as Tim Cook suggested. But I also know that Apple always likes to release products slowly to maximize sales and for this year the 5C and fingerprint are the focus. The iPhone has grown large enough to the point there is a need to address a far larger customer base like they have done in all their other product lines. next year the focus will be on the iPhone 6 with a bigger display. Count on it.
I agree with some of this but you contradict yourself a bit.
To your first point about fragmentation, as a developer I have to disagree. it's not just a matter of quickly and easily modifying the apps, not if it to be done right. Just as there a re iPad optimised apps and iPhone optimised apps as size in between calls for a new solution to the way items are laid out, not to mention the support for raster-based graphics not to look pixelated on a flagship phone. A new size would also force developers to cut out older models... upsetting users who haven't or can't upgrade. As it is, there are 5 different resolutions (non-retina phone, retina phone4, retina phone5, iPad/mini, retina iPad). If we add another either apps will get bigger and more sluggish, or we cut older users. I want my apps to get smaller, not bigger.
I mentioned "techies" because they are the only ones I hear this from. My random "non-tech" friends (many who are girls) don't care... just my mom, who doesn't want a smart phone anyway (she even gave a free android back, against my suggestion - honest) she wanted her functional flip phone back. I carry a small bag with me everywhere and I don't see it as a reason to get a bigger phone. Playing this idea as one aimed at women will be a rude awakening to some manufacturers.
My iPad has been an amazing substitute. I am an avid comic reader that has gone fully digital. I like that my iPad and my iPhone do most of the same things but the experience between them is WAY different. I don't watch movies or read for long periods on my phone... it's just not what it's for. Those who want them mushed together is a neche market... not something that apple should steer their flagship phone towards. And of course the iPad doesn't make calls... it's not a phone. You aren't restrained to one device, unless you choose to leave one at home.
Where are you getting $50 billion large screen market from? 15% of the android market is above 4.8" yet the 4 of the top 5 screen sizes are between 3.2' to 4.3". (source). If apple wants to keep the 16:9 ratio (and I know they do) if it gets bigger I don't see it going larger than 4.5", tops - or it will make it too long and, like I said - piss off devs like me.
Just my opinion, but I'm not just pulling it out of my ass, nor and I trying to combatitive. I'm really not.
I agree with some of this but you contradict yourself a bit.
To your first point about fragmentation, as a developer I have to disagree. it's not just a matter of quickly and easily modifying the apps, not if it to be done right. Just as there a re iPad optimised apps and iPhone optimised apps as size in between calls for a new solution to the way items are laid out, not to mention the support for raster-based graphics not to look pixelated on a flagship phone. A new size would also force developers to cut out older models... upsetting users who haven't or can't upgrade. As it is, there are 5 different resolutions (non-retina phone, retina phone4, retina phone5, iPad/mini, retina iPad). If we add another either apps will get bigger and more sluggish, or we cut older users. I want my apps to get smaller, not bigger.
I mentioned "techies" because they are the only ones I hear this from. My random "non-tech" friends (many who are girls) don't care... just my mom, who doesn't want a smart phone anyway (she even gave a free android back, against my suggestion - honest) she wanted her functional flip phone back. I carry a small bag with me everywhere and I don't see it as a reason to get a bigger phone. Playing this idea as one aimed at women will be a rude awakening to some manufacturers.
My iPad has been an amazing substitute. I am an avid comic reader that has gone fully digital. I like that my iPad and my iPhone do most of the same things but the experience between them is WAY different. I don't watch movies or read for long periods on my phone... it's just not what it's for. Those who want them mushed together is a neche market... not something that apple should steer their flagship phone towards. And of course the iPad doesn't make calls... it's not a phone. You aren't restrained to one device, unless you choose to leave one at home.
Where are you getting $50 billion large screen market from? 15% of the android market is above 4.8" yet the 4 of the top 5 screen sizes are between 3.2' to 4.3". (source). If apple wants to keep the 16:9 ratio (and I know they do) if it gets bigger I don't see it going larger than 4.5", tops - or it will make it too long and, like I said - piss off devs like me.
Just my opinion, but I'm not just pulling it out of my ass, nor and I trying to combatitive. I'm really not.
You better check that link you gave again because it also points to a "meteoric" rise in larger displays. I have read several articles recently saying this is a $50B market.
"The phablet market is huge and growing. It has been forecast that global phablet revenues will total $46 billion in 2013 and will constitute a significant portion of global smartphone shipments by 2018. They will become cornerstones around which the next-generation product lines of leading OEMs will be built.
In January 2013, analysts reported that 25.6 million phablet devices were sold in 2012 and estimated that these figures would grow to 60.4 million in 2013, and 146 million by 2016."
As far as resolutions, developers will adapt as they have before.
You better check that link you gave again because it also points to a "meteoric" rise in larger displays. I have read several articles recently saying this is a $50B market.
"The phablet market is huge and growing. It has been forecast that global phablet revenues will total $46 billion in 2013 and will constitute a significant portion of global smartphone shipments by 2018. They will become cornerstones around which the next-generation product lines of leading OEMs will be built.
In January 2013, analysts reported that 25.6 million phablet devices were sold in 2012 and estimated that these figures would grow to 60.4 million in 2013, and 146 million by 2016."
As far as resolutions, developers will adapt as they have before.
See, I don't got with futures, or predictions... they always get them wrong. I go with established numbers - past and current trends. Analysts have predicted many trends, from the Surface taking off to the z10 revitalizing Blackberry... predictions by the people unable to influence them are useless as they are forgotten by the next article. The titles are almost always hyperbole - claiming the death of this and the surge of that...
25 Million is a decent number, but Apple sold 126 Million iphones in the same year (a year with "phablets" out right beside iPhones in stores and carriers), chosen above bigger screened devices. The also sold 58 Million iPads for those that wanted something bigger than what fits in your pocket. Don't go off predictions - it's a sucker's game. Use real numbers. (source)
Developers won't always adapt, they may just move on and cut support for older phones sooner than you would like. For apple - cutting support from devs for a device that may be still on contract is a disaster for their image and reputation to that customer. That should never be overlooked.
The news on small screens is that some opticians are reporting a doubling of myopia.
This is thought to becaused by small smartphone screens, with the iPhone obviously a major contributor. Interestingly the very restrictive nature of Safari and its permanent mobile mode counteracts that.
Well, looks like we already know what Apple was waiting for for their new iphone line with a bigger screen (please, don't say that it isn't needed when all other premium smartphones have a bigger screen, and together they easely outsell the iphone, especially out of the US. So a new iphone line, together with the current 4" line could easely see iphone sales doubling on the premium segment!)
The news on small screens is that some opticians are reporting a doubling of myopia. This is thought to becaused by small smartphone screens, with the iPhone obviously a major contributor. Interestingly the very restrictive nature of Safari and its permanent mobile mode counteracts that.
If that was the case, it would have been brought up with the Blackberry as that was a lower resolution screen that people would be glued to for long stretches of time. People are individual and as individuals they all have varying degrees of eye-sight quality. If they have issue with "small smartphone screens" then there are a whole host of devices that the FDA should be pulling off the shelves - from watches to the screen on my office phone. It's a disingenuous comment by these opticians, as obviously anything on a larger screen would be better in terms of eye strain over long periods of time than something on a smaller screen. The answer is don't use smaller screens for extended periods of time (reading a book, watching a movie, extended game-play). The thing is, the larger screen they are probable referring too is something like a computer screen or an iPad/tablet sort of deal. I don't look at my phone for stretches longer than 20 minutes at a time. Anything longer and I put my phone in my pocket and switch to a larger screen. Anyone thinking an inch or two on a phone will make a difference is kidding themselves in this context.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
I don't get your fascination with larger screens. The iPhone 5 screen is perfect for 90% of mobile task users need.
I don't get some people's fascination with larger screens either. But I really don't get some people's need to argue how iPhone 5's screen is perfect or just right. It isn't. There is no such thing as a perfect size given that everyone has a different hand size.
There is really no need to convince people they are wrong on a very subjective issue. Let it rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
I am going to laugh so hard when the 5C is more expensive than the 5S rather than less as so many seem to be predicting.
Unlikely. But I too would enjoy that. Not because that would prove many wrong. But because it would signal that Apple is still choosing its own path, and not capitulating to the calls for a cheaper phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella
The 5S is the premium/flagship/prestige product.
This will be reflected in the build quality, specs and price.
I doubt that the 5C will have lower build quality. Different or even less expensive material doesn't always translate to lower build quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella
The 5C will only be available in a 16GB model with less RAM, CPU and GPU performance.
The 5S will come in 32, 64 and 128GB capacities.
Both will have the same camera and finger scanning tech.
The first part makes sense but the second part is pretty much known untrue.
The 5C will not have fingerprint scanning as yields are troublesome and the sensor is expensive enough that it cannot be put into the 5C at that price point. The fingerprint scanner is a key new feature to drive upgrades and higher end users to the 5S.
cryptoanarchy.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper
I don't get some people's fascination with larger screens either. But I really don't get some people's need to argue how iPhone 5's screen is perfect or just right. It isn't. There is no such thing as a perfect size given that everyone has a different hand size.
There is really no need to convince people they are wrong on a very subjective issue. Let it rest.
The issue is that introducing another size will fragment the app ecosystem. Also, it would be pandering to a small subset of noisy techies - most of which would never buy an iPhone to begin with - who make a larger screen size sound like more than what it is, a niche feature. The reason Apple is so popular is because the do not deal in niches when it comes to phones. They make their phones for the masses. I would rather not have a large screen device that would harm the image of the iphone when it's sacrifices (poor battery life, pixel quality, app ecosystem destabilization, portability, ect...). The noisy subset want Apple to get a larger screen size so they can say Apple is playing catchup in screen size (like that's some sort of innovation). If Apple goes with a bigger screen it should be because there is some advantage to having a phone that big, and considering Apple's iOS device line up with the iPad mini there just isn't an advantage to the iPhone being bigger than it is other than saying "we also have a big screen". That is not a justifiable reason to ruin their ecosystem. Peoples opinions are subjective, however the call for a larger screen is detrimental to Apple as a company margins and mantra of finding the best solution and not the 10 best solutions.
That being 'what to sell next year', 'is it a tablet or is it a phone', and 'a sameness with competing Android systems'.
So methinks it has to be think small, aim for a lasting uniqueness thus retaining those big profits and longer term loyalty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap
The issue is that introducing another size will fragment the app ecosystem. Also, it would be pandering to a small subset of noisy techies - most of which would never buy an iPhone to begin with - who make a larger screen size sound like more than what it is, a niche feature. The reason Apple is so popular is because the do not deal in niches when it comes to phones. They make their phones for the masses. I would rather not have a large screen device that would harm the image of the iphone when it's sacrifices (poor battery life, pixel quality, app ecosystem destabilization, portability, ect...). The noisy subset want Apple to get a larger screen size so they can say Apple is playing catchup in screen size (like that's some sort of innovation). If Apple goes with a bigger screen it should be because there is some advantage to having a phone that big, and considering Apple's iOS device line up with the iPad mini there just isn't an advantage to the iPhone being bigger than it is other than saying "we also have a big screen". That is not a justifiable reason to ruin their ecosystem. Peoples opinions are subjective, however the call for a larger screen is detrimental to Apple as a company margins and mantra of finding the best solution and not the 10 best solutions.
First of all there that been fragmentation in iOS land for some time. It hasn't been that big of a deal. We are not talking about dozens of displays or resolutions like they have for Android just one addition. Developers would quickly and easily modify their apps just like they did for all the previous changes.
I have no idea why you think the techies are requesting this. Although I am sure some techies might prefer a larger screen that is not the key demographic. Pretty much anyone with less than perfect eyesight which is most people over the age of 40 would love an easier to read iPhone. Women also might be a huge demographic since with a purse they don't mind the larger size. Smart phone usage has changed dramatically in the last few years and it is hard to argue that a larger screen is not preferable for pretty much any task that requires you view the display. Landscape mode is also used far more often than in the past and one handed use much less of a need.
The iPad is not a viable substitute. I have an iPad and it is true that at home I use it far more often than my iPhone 5 so in that sense it has essentially replaced my iPhone for everything except calls and texts at my house. But taking it on the road with me is not an option. It is far too big to carry in my pocket like I would be able to do with a 5" iPhone. Additionally, it has no phone feature. I still need to take calls and texts and need those features. I would also hate to need to make a 911 call and not have that option and try and call the police or an ambulance with Skype. And finally unlike my iPhone with an unlimited call/text/data plan there are no affordable unlimited data options for the iPad.
Apple will very likely make a larger version next year but will continue making the 4" as well. This year the focus will be on the iPhone 5C and the fingerprint for the 5S. But Apple will not simply abandon a $50 billion market for larger displays for too much longer. I am sure part of the reason for the delay was technical issues and not making compromises as Tim Cook suggested. But I also know that Apple always likes to release products slowly to maximize sales and for this year the 5C and fingerprint are the focus. The iPhone has grown large enough to the point there is a need to address a far larger customer base like they have done in all their other product lines. next year the focus will be on the iPhone 6 with a bigger display. Count on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Huh? Some people are stupid enough to believe this. Heck Gene Munster thinks Apple will leave Siri off this phone.
I don't think they will. At this point, Siri is part of the iPhone standard install with the exception of the iPhone 4 which is going bye bye, so I don't think Apple would do that. I think the iPhone 5C is just a less expensive case with the same guts of an iPhone 5 and the iPhone 5S is one with fingerprint ID, faster processor, better camera, maybe an updated voice/data chip (with integrated NFC?), more RAM, more storage options, maybe a better screen technology, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple made a larger screen model mid-year since Apple probably couldn't release all of these products at the same time since demand would create havoc for their production lines, so maybe they'll release these models now and then within a quarter or two announce a large screen model. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did it that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I don't think they will. At this point, Siri is part of the iPhone standard install with the exception of the iPhone 4 which is going bye bye, so I don't think Apple would do that. I think the iPhone 5C is just a less expensive case with the same guts of an iPhone 5 and the iPhone 5S is one with fingerprint ID, faster processor, better camera, maybe an updated voice/data chip (with integrated NFC?), more RAM, more storage options, maybe a better screen technology, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple made a larger screen model mid-year since Apple probably couldn't release all of these products at the same time since demand would create havoc for their production lines, so maybe they'll release these models now and then within a quarter or two announce a large screen model. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did it that way.
I agree with everything in your post except the part about NFC. I doubt Apple will add that unless it augments Passbook.
It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone. This is what they used to do with the iPad as the big Spring announcement. It would also allow them to use newer components in the larger version which requires less engineering with more room inside the shell. There will likely be a lot of angry people that would not have bought a 5S had they known a larger version was coming 5 or 6 months later but it is will pay off big for the future and then people will understand their schedule and make their decisions accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
I agree with everything in your post except the part about NFC. I doubt Apple will add that unless it augments Passbook.
It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone. This is what they used to do with the iPad as the big Spring announcement. It would also allow them to use newer components in the larger version which requires less engineering with more room inside the shell. There will likely be a lot of angry people that would not have bought a 5S had they known a larger version was coming 5 or 6 months later but it is will pay off big for the future and then people will understand their schedule and make their decisions accordingly.
I just heard that, I believe it was Qualcomm, was going to release or has released a new voice/data chip with NFC built in, so to use this updated chip that you get NFC whether you like it or not. Again, I'm going strictly from memory on an article I read. I agree that Apple may or may not implement NFC, but if they had it, I wouldn't mind if it was there so future iOS updates. Since I didn't hear anything at WWDC about NFC and I've not read anywhere that NFC functionality is part of iOS 7, you're probably right, but if the voice/data chips have them onboard, then maybe they could add that functionality later on. I know it's a stretch, that's why I put it in with a question mark. Because it's a maybe, not a definite. But an updated voice/data chip is PROBABLY part of the iPhone 5S w/ or w/o NFC.
Apple unfortunately, won't talk about future products unless they feel they need to. Several reasons for that. One, they don't want to repeat what happened to Osborne Computer back in the 80's. They made a future product announcement too soon and what happened was no one bought the existing product and the company went out of business as a result. I know people always want to know about future products, but it's a double edged sword to talk about something too soon before they release the product. I think the reasoning behind the MacPro announcement was that it was at WWDC, Apple has had a lot of flack over not coming out with a new MacPro system, but honestly it's not Apple's fault. They had to wait for Intel to release the Thunderbolt chip sets that actually support XEON chips and since the completely new redesign, they couldn't release the product any sooner since TB 2 is new and so are the 12 core chips, etc., etc. Since the current MacPro doesn't sell that much, they aren't losing much business, so for them to make an announcement like that, it doesn't really hurt sales.
I just think it's doubtful that Apple will make an announcement for a larger screen model, UNLESS, they have something to show that's a working product and they just delay shipping it due to production capabilities and waiting for components to become available similar to that of the MacPro system.
I hope this makes sense.
Either way, I think there are enough people that know Apple is working on a larger screen model, but last i heard (no one directly from Apple, it was from a rumor site), that they haven't made the final decision as to screen size. As they say, rumors are just rumors. Apple likes to keep control over future product announcements for several reasons. One, as to not disrupt currents sales, which is understandable. Two, they don't want to announce unless they know the shipment dates. Three, to keep others guessing and lastly, because it makes the product announcement more exciting. We, by nature, always want to know what we're getting for Christmas before we open our presents, but sometimes It's better to be surprised. It makes it more enjoyable.
Originally Posted by pizdec
I dont think we will see Retina on C model, otherwise we may see canibalzation
Abject nonsense.
Originally Posted by Dunks
I'm pretty sure pizdec was yanking your chain.
No, people actually believe this.
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem
A large screen would give people what they want…
Not in the slightest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
It also make a lot of sense to have two big iPhone announcements twice a year. Once in the fall every year for the two 4" models and once in the Spring with a larger iPhone.
Yes, good insight.
...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.
Both of your posts are spot on, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808
Yes, good insight.
...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.
Both of your posts are spot on, IMO.
I think it's better if they did it for two reasons. It keeps the anti-Apple people from saying they aren't innovating, plus from a production level perspective, they might not be able to make products fast enough, regardless of the screen size and model since it's a feeding frenzy like a pack of hungry piranha feasting on fresh meat.
Plus it would help increase quarterly sales throughout the year rather than releasing everything for one quarter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808
Yes, good insight.
...people need to unwind their emotions about how lame larger format phones are.
Both of your posts are spot on, IMO.
If I had perfect vision I would be happier with the current 4" version but I don't and sometimes have trouble reading small print. The Zoom feature is a real PITA to use for rare occasions when I need it so that is not really an option. Turn it on in settings and you can see what I mean. I don't want zoom I want a bigger display. But I think a larger display will even appeal to many people with 20/20 vision simply because some people now prefer larger screen for a whole host of reasons. whether it is browsing the web, watching a video, looking at your photos, or playing a game...it is a better experience with a larger screen.
It is good the keep the 4" iPhone around for the diehards who like that size and because they use the phone in one hand often or don't tend to look at the display for any extended time, but I am confident Apple will release a larger iPhone probably around April or at the latest in the fall of next year. And like Drblank said above it will also keep product buzz and sales more constant year round. There is a big dip in sales in the quarter prior to a new release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
First of all there that been fragmentation in iOS land for some time. It hasn't been that big of a deal. We are not talking about dozens of displays or resolutions like they have for Android just one addition. Developers would quickly and easily modify their apps just like they did for all the previous changes.
I have no idea why you think the techies are requesting this. Although I am sure some techies might prefer a larger screen that is not the key demographic. Pretty much anyone with less than perfect eyesight which is most people over the age of 40 would love an easier to read iPhone. Women also might be a huge demographic since with a purse they don't mind the larger size. Smart phone usage has changed dramatically in the last few years and it is hard to argue that a larger screen is not preferable for pretty much any task that requires you view the display. Landscape mode is also used far more often than in the past and one handed use much less of a need.
The iPad is not a viable substitute. I have an iPad and it is true that at home I use it far more often than my iPhone 5 so in that sense it has essentially replaced my iPhone for everything except calls and texts at my house. But taking it on the road with me is not an option. It is far too big to carry in my pocket like I would be able to do with a 5" iPhone. Additionally, it has no phone feature. I still need to take calls and texts and need those features. I would also hate to need to make a 911 call and not have that option and try and call the police or an ambulance with Skype. And finally unlike my iPhone with an unlimited call/text/data plan there are no affordable unlimited data options for the iPad.
Apple will very likely make a larger version next year but will continue making the 4" as well. This year the focus will be on the iPhone 5C and the fingerprint for the 5S. But Apple will not simply abandon a $50 billion market for larger displays for too much longer. I am sure part of the reason for the delay was technical issues and not making compromises as Tim Cook suggested. But I also know that Apple always likes to release products slowly to maximize sales and for this year the 5C and fingerprint are the focus. The iPhone has grown large enough to the point there is a need to address a far larger customer base like they have done in all their other product lines. next year the focus will be on the iPhone 6 with a bigger display. Count on it.
I agree with some of this but you contradict yourself a bit.
To your first point about fragmentation, as a developer I have to disagree. it's not just a matter of quickly and easily modifying the apps, not if it to be done right. Just as there a re iPad optimised apps and iPhone optimised apps as size in between calls for a new solution to the way items are laid out, not to mention the support for raster-based graphics not to look pixelated on a flagship phone. A new size would also force developers to cut out older models... upsetting users who haven't or can't upgrade. As it is, there are 5 different resolutions (non-retina phone, retina phone4, retina phone5, iPad/mini, retina iPad). If we add another either apps will get bigger and more sluggish, or we cut older users. I want my apps to get smaller, not bigger.
I mentioned "techies" because they are the only ones I hear this from. My random "non-tech" friends (many who are girls) don't care... just my mom, who doesn't want a smart phone anyway (she even gave a free android back, against my suggestion - honest) she wanted her functional flip phone back. I carry a small bag with me everywhere and I don't see it as a reason to get a bigger phone. Playing this idea as one aimed at women will be a rude awakening to some manufacturers.
My iPad has been an amazing substitute. I am an avid comic reader that has gone fully digital. I like that my iPad and my iPhone do most of the same things but the experience between them is WAY different. I don't watch movies or read for long periods on my phone... it's just not what it's for. Those who want them mushed together is a neche market... not something that apple should steer their flagship phone towards. And of course the iPad doesn't make calls... it's not a phone. You aren't restrained to one device, unless you choose to leave one at home.
Where are you getting $50 billion large screen market from? 15% of the android market is above 4.8" yet the 4 of the top 5 screen sizes are between 3.2' to 4.3". (source). If apple wants to keep the 16:9 ratio (and I know they do) if it gets bigger I don't see it going larger than 4.5", tops - or it will make it too long and, like I said - piss off devs like me.
Just my opinion, but I'm not just pulling it out of my ass, nor and I trying to combatitive. I'm really not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap
I agree with some of this but you contradict yourself a bit.
To your first point about fragmentation, as a developer I have to disagree. it's not just a matter of quickly and easily modifying the apps, not if it to be done right. Just as there a re iPad optimised apps and iPhone optimised apps as size in between calls for a new solution to the way items are laid out, not to mention the support for raster-based graphics not to look pixelated on a flagship phone. A new size would also force developers to cut out older models... upsetting users who haven't or can't upgrade. As it is, there are 5 different resolutions (non-retina phone, retina phone4, retina phone5, iPad/mini, retina iPad). If we add another either apps will get bigger and more sluggish, or we cut older users. I want my apps to get smaller, not bigger.
I mentioned "techies" because they are the only ones I hear this from. My random "non-tech" friends (many who are girls) don't care... just my mom, who doesn't want a smart phone anyway (she even gave a free android back, against my suggestion - honest) she wanted her functional flip phone back. I carry a small bag with me everywhere and I don't see it as a reason to get a bigger phone. Playing this idea as one aimed at women will be a rude awakening to some manufacturers.
My iPad has been an amazing substitute. I am an avid comic reader that has gone fully digital. I like that my iPad and my iPhone do most of the same things but the experience between them is WAY different. I don't watch movies or read for long periods on my phone... it's just not what it's for. Those who want them mushed together is a neche market... not something that apple should steer their flagship phone towards. And of course the iPad doesn't make calls... it's not a phone. You aren't restrained to one device, unless you choose to leave one at home.
Where are you getting $50 billion large screen market from? 15% of the android market is above 4.8" yet the 4 of the top 5 screen sizes are between 3.2' to 4.3". (source). If apple wants to keep the 16:9 ratio (and I know they do) if it gets bigger I don't see it going larger than 4.5", tops - or it will make it too long and, like I said - piss off devs like me.
Just my opinion, but I'm not just pulling it out of my ass, nor and I trying to combatitive. I'm really not.
You better check that link you gave again because it also points to a "meteoric" rise in larger displays. I have read several articles recently saying this is a $50B market.
Here you go: http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2013/06/13/can-apple-compete-with-samsung-in-46-billion-phablet-market/
and another
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/key-growth-potential-phablets-market-000000408.html
"The phablet market is huge and growing. It has been forecast that global phablet revenues will total $46 billion in 2013 and will constitute a significant portion of global smartphone shipments by 2018. They will become cornerstones around which the next-generation product lines of leading OEMs will be built.
In January 2013, analysts reported that 25.6 million phablet devices were sold in 2012 and estimated that these figures would grow to 60.4 million in 2013, and 146 million by 2016."
As far as resolutions, developers will adapt as they have before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
You better check that link you gave again because it also points to a "meteoric" rise in larger displays. I have read several articles recently saying this is a $50B market.
Here you go: http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2013/06/13/can-apple-compete-with-samsung-in-46-billion-phablet-market/
and another
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/key-growth-potential-phablets-market-000000408.html
"The phablet market is huge and growing. It has been forecast that global phablet revenues will total $46 billion in 2013 and will constitute a significant portion of global smartphone shipments by 2018. They will become cornerstones around which the next-generation product lines of leading OEMs will be built.
In January 2013, analysts reported that 25.6 million phablet devices were sold in 2012 and estimated that these figures would grow to 60.4 million in 2013, and 146 million by 2016."
As far as resolutions, developers will adapt as they have before.
See, I don't got with futures, or predictions... they always get them wrong. I go with established numbers - past and current trends. Analysts have predicted many trends, from the Surface taking off to the z10 revitalizing Blackberry... predictions by the people unable to influence them are useless as they are forgotten by the next article. The titles are almost always hyperbole - claiming the death of this and the surge of that...
25 Million is a decent number, but Apple sold 126 Million iphones in the same year (a year with "phablets" out right beside iPhones in stores and carriers), chosen above bigger screened devices. The also sold 58 Million iPads for those that wanted something bigger than what fits in your pocket. Don't go off predictions - it's a sucker's game. Use real numbers. (source)
Developers won't always adapt, they may just move on and cut support for older phones sooner than you would like. For apple - cutting support from devs for a device that may be still on contract is a disaster for their image and reputation to that customer. That should never be overlooked.
This is thought to becaused by small smartphone screens, with the iPhone obviously a major contributor.
Interestingly the very restrictive nature of Safari and its permanent mobile mode counteracts that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Well, looks like we already know what Apple was waiting for for their new iphone line with a bigger screen (please, don't say that it isn't needed when all other premium smartphones have a bigger screen, and together they easely outsell the iphone, especially out of the US. So a new iphone line, together with the current 4" line could easely see iphone sales doubling on the premium segment!)
http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/21/4642900/lg-announces-5-5-inch-smartphone-lcd-with-record-pixel-density
I don't believe that is true at all.
Smartphones with 5" plus screen sizes are not outselling iPhone 5 in US.
Where do you get your data? I don't see anyone suggesting this at all.
I am not even sure that all android smartphones above $500 non-contract are outselling iPhones in the world.
Most data that I see are showing android budget phones outselling iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem
The news on small screens is that some opticians are reporting a doubling of myopia. This is thought to becaused by small smartphone screens, with the iPhone obviously a major contributor. Interestingly the very restrictive nature of Safari and its permanent mobile mode counteracts that.
If that was the case, it would have been brought up with the Blackberry as that was a lower resolution screen that people would be glued to for long stretches of time. People are individual and as individuals they all have varying degrees of eye-sight quality. If they have issue with "small smartphone screens" then there are a whole host of devices that the FDA should be pulling off the shelves - from watches to the screen on my office phone. It's a disingenuous comment by these opticians, as obviously anything on a larger screen would be better in terms of eye strain over long periods of time than something on a smaller screen. The answer is don't use smaller screens for extended periods of time (reading a book, watching a movie, extended game-play). The thing is, the larger screen they are probable referring too is something like a computer screen or an iPad/tablet sort of deal. I don't look at my phone for stretches longer than 20 minutes at a time. Anything longer and I put my phone in my pocket and switch to a larger screen. Anyone thinking an inch or two on a phone will make a difference is kidding themselves in this context.