It'll work out great for them! Now they can avoid failures like the Zune, where they controlled the hardware… and… the software… Well, at least they won't screw up like they did with the Kin, where they controlled the soft… ware and the hardware… But seriously now, really, they can't screw up like they did with the Surface, where Microsoft was critical in the design of the software… and… the… hard… Look, but… what about the Xbox! There Microsoft only had control over the…
Geez, Redmond, get it together.
Then I guess making the hardware and software is not the magical formula everyone makes it out to be.
Sounds good to me. The latest Lumia is a great phone. If I didn't want to re-buy all the apps I've purchased for iOS, I'd strongly look at switching instead of picking up a 5S next week. The camera alone is like night and day compared to everything else out on the market right now.
Fanboys can poo poo all they want, but strong competition is a great thing for consumers, so I hope good things come of this.
Be wary. I recently bought a Nokia 720 - lovely looking phone - to use as a GPS device, and for that it is fantastic. I think Nokia's Here maps is the best mobile GPS and maps solution available because it's data is very comprehensive and up to date and because it doesn't require a data connection - you can download the maps and associated data - points of interest etc - to the phone. Much better than either Google or Apple's solutions.
Now I had thought to evaluate the 720 for use as a phone, but I have concerns over data privacy so won't use it for that. WP8 requires you to set up a Live/Hotmail account with Microsoft to which the phone is registered. It will then sync all your contacts to this account by uploading them. There is no opt-out from this. I find that unacceptable.
WP8 has a host of what to me are flaws, which I won't go into. Samsung's Bada OS is better thw WP8.
As a GPS device though, it is superb. It gets a lock in seconds and will even get a lock indoors to some extent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Since Apple and Microsoft have a patent agreement, then Apple can use Nokia technology patents, right?
I would imagine that agreement is for Patents Microsoft owns and is very unlikely to include patents they licence from other sources.
Be wary. I recently bought a Nokia 720 - lovely looking phone - to use as a GPS device, and for that it is fantastic. I think Nokia's Here maps is the best mobile GPS and maps solution available because it's data is very comprehensive and up to date and because it doesn't require a data connection - you can download the maps and associated data - points of interest etc - to the phone. Much better than either Google or Apple's solutions.
Now I had thought to evaluate the 720 for use as a phone, but I have concerns over data privacy so won't use it for that. WP8 requires you to set up a Live/Hotmail account with Microsoft to which the phone is registered. It will then sync all your contacts to this account by uploading them. There is no opt-out from this. I find that unacceptable.
Thats not strictly true. The only requirment to have a microsoft account on the phone is if you want to use the app store. If you dont associate one then you can just have your contacts on the phone and not sync'd anywhere.
It also does not sync every contact you have with your Microsoft account. The contacts list will display contacts from microsoft, google, twitter, facebook etc, and when you create a new conact it asks you which service you want to store it in. Data from one isnt ever copied to the other.
So basically Elop was a Trojan horse and he's now back at Microsoft, most likely to replace Ballmer.
Maybe. I think the good news here (for Apple) is that this move is a continuance of Balmer's latest strategy and it would have had to be approved by the board. So to me, it seems like they have fired Balmer, but are perhaps continuing with his stupid ideas. So it's less likely that a new CEO will differentiate the company strategy wise and change it to something that might be a winning strategy.
What Id most like to know now is what will happen to Nokias apps and the apis they've made for windows phone. Is Microsoft now taking over these or does Nokia keep them. I'd guess all the here ones stay with Nokia but will they get the same effort as they are real features of the lumia phones.
And what about all the imaging apps and Nokia music. I cant see Nokia music lasting if MS now has it but the apis for 3rd party apps were good.
Also in guessing the lumia tablet is now dead. There's no real point MS making Lumia tablets and Surface tablets which is a shame.
After seeing the news regarding "Microsoft acquiring Nokia mobile division" I looked up MSFT's actual press release. This is one of the most moronic deals I have ever seen in the tech space, and having worked for the #2 and #3 law firms in Silicon Valley I have seen a lot of deals.
MSFT actually acquired nothing more than the employees and factories for the phone division, not the name, which they will need to license from Nokia, and "Nokia will continue to own and manage the brand". MSFT will also only license the Nokia HERE mapping program under a four year deal, and Nokia related patents for 10 years and, very importantly, on a non-exclusive basis. They did not acquire some of the most valuable assets - mapping and the services businesses. Thus MSFT has acquired the money losing operations, which includes 10's of thousands of employees and uncompetitive manufacturing facilities based on geographic location, and left Nokia with the profitable services, patent licensing, and the potential for advertising and licensing for the mapping business. BRILLIANT!!!! This should work out well for them, in a Kin and Surface sort of way...
Thats not strictly true. The only requirment to have a microsoft account on the phone is if you want to use the app store. If you dont associate one then you can just have your contacts on the phone and not sync'd anywhere.
It also does not sync every contact you have with your Microsoft account. The contacts list will display contacts from microsoft, google, twitter, facebook etc, and when you create a new conact it asks you which service you want to store it in. Data from one isnt ever copied to the other.
So you are safe so long as you don't ever want to put apps on it?
Google, take note. This is how you buy a dead dinosour of a company; $5 billion not 12!
Net Google cost was $7B+ deducting the cash MM had on hand and less the sold off set-top business. While Google bought the IP too, MS is just getting a license to it yet paying the same $7B+. Neither deal looks all that great to me but Google's appears to be the better of the two IMO.
Microsoft doesn't get ownership of even the phone-related patents if I understand correctly. They are non-exclusively licensed to MS for a 10-year term, but ownership remains with Nokia.
The 10 year deal is giving Microsoft naming rights to use the name Nokia. That's just for the naming rights, so Microsoft can spit out mobile devices with the name Nokia on it. That's got nothing to do with the "technology" patents is how I read it.
Google, take note. This is how you buy a dead dinosour of a company; $5 billion not 12!
Actually, it's $7.2 and there is about $7 Billion in cash that they will get access to, so it's going to actually cost LESS than $7.2 Billion, the only problem is how much of the company is losing every year.
The 10 year deal is giving Microsoft naming rights to use the name Nokia. That's just for the naming rights, so Microsoft can spit out mobile devices with the name Nokia on it. That's got nothing to do with the "technology" patents is how I read it.
Then "you're reading it wrong".
The patents will still be owned by Nokia. Microsft only gets a license to them, and not even an exclusive one.
EDIT: You're claiming there's $7B cash coming from Nokia with the sale of the mobile division???
I'm shocked if so, seriously doubting that's the case. Do you have a citation showing Microsft getting $7B in cash from Nokia in the deal? When Google bought Motorola Mobility they bought the entire company (it had already been spun off from Motorola some time before that). In this case MS is simply buying a division of Nokia which I wouldn't think had it's own cash accounts.
I've always hated when future movies shoehorn in product placement like that. The one instance of it I don't mind is Pan Am in 2001, as that's less product placement and more a statement on the future of how space travel would operate.
But just like Pan Am in 2001, Nokia won't live to see Kirk wreck an old car.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Then I guess making the hardware and software is not the magical formula everyone makes it out to be.
There is absolutely nothing that could have caused you to come to that conclusion.
I think Nokia's Here maps is the best mobile GPS and maps solution available because it's data is very comprehensive and up to date and because it doesn't require a data connection - you can download the maps and associated data - points of interest etc - to the phone. Much better than either Google or Apple's solutions.
Haven't tried Here on a phone, but their website is way ahead of Google's Maps IMO. The satellite imagery is vastly newer for the parts that I've been viewing, for one thing. I really hope MS won't screw things up here.
iOS downloads large chunks of the map while you're browsing. So when you view a route you're about to take while still on the hotel WiFi and hop into the car and disabled international roaming the Maps app still works. You don't have to download it yourself.
The patents will still be owned by Nokia. Microsft only gets a license to them, and not even an exclusive one.
EDIT: You're claiming there's $7B cash coming from Nokia with the sale of the mobile division???
I'm shocked if so, seriously doubting that's the case. Do you have a citation showing Microsft getting $7B in cash from Nokia in the deal? When Google bought Motorola Mobility they bought the entire company (it had already been spun off from Motorola some time before that). In this case MS is simply buying a division of Nokia which I wouldn't think had it's own cash accounts.
NO, I didn't say it did, but I'm sure a certain amount would. That's usually what happens, I'm sure the amount of cash that's affiliated with the Mobility unit STAYS with the mobility unit if they are operated separately. That's usually how things happen. Obviously, the information is not exactly how I would say is complete, detailed and specific enough to assume either way. which might be lending to why there is different understanding. But it was VERY clear that around $2 Billion was associated specifically with the use of the name Nokia on products for a period of 10 years. The $5+ Billion was associated with buying the assets (cash is part of that, as are patents are typically part of what is called an ASSET) along with personnel, buildings, etc. of the mobility unit.
The mobility unit not having it's own cash accounts? Really? Well, how do they pay for things? With a IOU, they sell their products for CASH, they pay for things for CASH, they store the profits (CASH) in bank accounts and invest CASH in various bonds and securities.
Every business has cash accounts associated with it.
No, Google didn't buy the entire company, they bought the Mobility division which has their own P&L, which is essentially doing the same thing. The various specifics I don't know only from what I've read, which is very superficial, but having a finance degree, which I don't know if you have one, and have spent time looking at annual reports and financial statements of companies since I was a little kid back in 1969, I think I have a little better understanding of how companies operate.
Microsoft would be out of their freaking minds to spend $7.2 Billion on just employees of a company. In order to sell a product, they have to have access to licensing of not only trademarks, but patents, etc. Othewise, it would be completely worthless to them. And Nokia does have cash associated with that division so that money WOULD be transferring ownership.
Comments
Then I guess making the hardware and software is not the magical formula everyone makes it out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907
Sounds good to me. The latest Lumia is a great phone. If I didn't want to re-buy all the apps I've purchased for iOS, I'd strongly look at switching instead of picking up a 5S next week. The camera alone is like night and day compared to everything else out on the market right now.
Fanboys can poo poo all they want, but strong competition is a great thing for consumers, so I hope good things come of this.
Be wary. I recently bought a Nokia 720 - lovely looking phone - to use as a GPS device, and for that it is fantastic. I think Nokia's Here maps is the best mobile GPS and maps solution available because it's data is very comprehensive and up to date and because it doesn't require a data connection - you can download the maps and associated data - points of interest etc - to the phone. Much better than either Google or Apple's solutions.
Now I had thought to evaluate the 720 for use as a phone, but I have concerns over data privacy so won't use it for that. WP8 requires you to set up a Live/Hotmail account with Microsoft to which the phone is registered. It will then sync all your contacts to this account by uploading them. There is no opt-out from this. I find that unacceptable.
WP8 has a host of what to me are flaws, which I won't go into. Samsung's Bada OS is better thw WP8.
As a GPS device though, it is superb. It gets a lock in seconds and will even get a lock indoors to some extent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Since Apple and Microsoft have a patent agreement, then Apple can use Nokia technology patents, right?
I would imagine that agreement is for Patents Microsoft owns and is very unlikely to include patents they licence from other sources.
It also does not sync every contact you have with your Microsoft account. The contacts list will display contacts from microsoft, google, twitter, facebook etc, and when you create a new conact it asks you which service you want to store it in. Data from one isnt ever copied to the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
So basically Elop was a Trojan horse and he's now back at Microsoft, most likely to replace Ballmer.
Maybe. I think the good news here (for Apple) is that this move is a continuance of Balmer's latest strategy and it would have had to be approved by the board. So to me, it seems like they have fired Balmer, but are perhaps continuing with his stupid ideas. So it's less likely that a new CEO will differentiate the company strategy wise and change it to something that might be a winning strategy.
And what about all the imaging apps and Nokia music. I cant see Nokia music lasting if MS now has it but the apis for 3rd party apps were good.
Also in guessing the lumia tablet is now dead. There's no real point MS making Lumia tablets and Surface tablets which is a shame.
MSFT actually acquired nothing more than the employees and factories for the phone division, not the name, which they will need to license from Nokia, and "Nokia will continue to own and manage the brand". MSFT will also only license the Nokia HERE mapping program under a four year deal, and Nokia related patents for 10 years and, very importantly, on a non-exclusive basis. They did not acquire some of the most valuable assets - mapping and the services businesses. Thus MSFT has acquired the money losing operations, which includes 10's of thousands of employees and uncompetitive manufacturing facilities based on geographic location, and left Nokia with the profitable services, patent licensing, and the potential for advertising and licensing for the mapping business. BRILLIANT!!!! This should work out well for them, in a Kin and Surface sort of way...
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84
Thats not strictly true. The only requirment to have a microsoft account on the phone is if you want to use the app store. If you dont associate one then you can just have your contacts on the phone and not sync'd anywhere.
It also does not sync every contact you have with your Microsoft account. The contacts list will display contacts from microsoft, google, twitter, facebook etc, and when you create a new conact it asks you which service you want to store it in. Data from one isnt ever copied to the other.
So you are safe so long as you don't ever want to put apps on it?
WHY?
Oh, you mean like Zune, Kim and Surface? Duh!!!!
Net Google cost was $7B+ deducting the cash MM had on hand and less the sold off set-top business. While Google bought the IP too, MS is just getting a license to it yet paying the same $7B+. Neither deal looks all that great to me but Google's appears to be the better of the two IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Microsoft doesn't get ownership of even the phone-related patents if I understand correctly. They are non-exclusively licensed to MS for a 10-year term, but ownership remains with Nokia.
The 10 year deal is giving Microsoft naming rights to use the name Nokia. That's just for the naming rights, so Microsoft can spit out mobile devices with the name Nokia on it. That's got nothing to do with the "technology" patents is how I read it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BARCODE
Google, take note. This is how you buy a dead dinosour of a company; $5 billion not 12!
Actually, it's $7.2 and there is about $7 Billion in cash that they will get access to, so it's going to actually cost LESS than $7.2 Billion, the only problem is how much of the company is losing every year.
Then "you're reading it wrong".
The patents will still be owned by Nokia. Microsft only gets a license to them, and not even an exclusive one.
EDIT: You're claiming there's $7B cash coming from Nokia with the sale of the mobile division???
I'm shocked if so, seriously doubting that's the case. Do you have a citation showing Microsft getting $7B in cash from Nokia in the deal? When Google bought Motorola Mobility they bought the entire company (it had already been spun off from Motorola some time before that). In this case MS is simply buying a division of Nokia which I wouldn't think had it's own cash accounts.
Originally Posted by NasserAE
So this won't happen in 300 years?!
I've always hated when future movies shoehorn in product placement like that. The one instance of it I don't mind is Pan Am in 2001, as that's less product placement and more a statement on the future of how space travel would operate.
But just like Pan Am in 2001, Nokia won't live to see Kirk wreck an old car.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Then I guess making the hardware and software is not the magical formula everyone makes it out to be.
There is absolutely nothing that could have caused you to come to that conclusion.
Haven't tried Here on a phone, but their website is way ahead of Google's Maps IMO. The satellite imagery is vastly newer for the parts that I've been viewing, for one thing. I really hope MS won't screw things up here.
iOS downloads large chunks of the map while you're browsing. So when you view a route you're about to take while still on the hotel WiFi and hop into the car and disabled international roaming the Maps app still works. You don't have to download it yourself.
$7.18B (link) but now I'm splitting hairs, or as the Dutch say, fucking ants.
Nothing but the multitude of comments extolling the virtues of making both hardware and software versus using software created by a 3rd party.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Nothing but the multitude of comments extolling the virtues of making both hardware and software versus using software created by a 3rd party.
Here is the information as you know it: Apple controls hardware and software successfully. Microsoft controls hardware and software unsuccessfully.
From this, you have determined: Controlling hardware and software is not successful.
Come off it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Then "you're reading it wrong".
The patents will still be owned by Nokia. Microsft only gets a license to them, and not even an exclusive one.
EDIT: You're claiming there's $7B cash coming from Nokia with the sale of the mobile division???
I'm shocked if so, seriously doubting that's the case. Do you have a citation showing Microsft getting $7B in cash from Nokia in the deal? When Google bought Motorola Mobility they bought the entire company (it had already been spun off from Motorola some time before that). In this case MS is simply buying a division of Nokia which I wouldn't think had it's own cash accounts.
NO, I didn't say it did, but I'm sure a certain amount would. That's usually what happens, I'm sure the amount of cash that's affiliated with the Mobility unit STAYS with the mobility unit if they are operated separately. That's usually how things happen. Obviously, the information is not exactly how I would say is complete, detailed and specific enough to assume either way. which might be lending to why there is different understanding. But it was VERY clear that around $2 Billion was associated specifically with the use of the name Nokia on products for a period of 10 years. The $5+ Billion was associated with buying the assets (cash is part of that, as are patents are typically part of what is called an ASSET) along with personnel, buildings, etc. of the mobility unit.
The mobility unit not having it's own cash accounts? Really? Well, how do they pay for things? With a IOU, they sell their products for CASH, they pay for things for CASH, they store the profits (CASH) in bank accounts and invest CASH in various bonds and securities.
Every business has cash accounts associated with it.
No, Google didn't buy the entire company, they bought the Mobility division which has their own P&L, which is essentially doing the same thing. The various specifics I don't know only from what I've read, which is very superficial, but having a finance degree, which I don't know if you have one, and have spent time looking at annual reports and financial statements of companies since I was a little kid back in 1969, I think I have a little better understanding of how companies operate.
Microsoft would be out of their freaking minds to spend $7.2 Billion on just employees of a company. In order to sell a product, they have to have access to licensing of not only trademarks, but patents, etc. Othewise, it would be completely worthless to them. And Nokia does have cash associated with that division so that money WOULD be transferring ownership.