The market always says they want share but when you don't delover margins they really burn you.
But the assumed drop in margins was priced in when the stock hit $400 ish. The stock only increased with the rumours of a cheaper plastic phone - which we assumed was the plastic one. Since apple haven't delivered a cheaper iPhone it may drop again. Of course they have a Chinese chip but that may not be enough.
However does anyone wonder about a company which innovates with plastic covers and new cases. The fingerprint sensor doesn't do much. 64 bit apps are overkill for a device with 128G memory. nothing is really happening. Maybe they are playing the long game, or they have no idea.
It looks too cheap from the distance (even if it might feel ok in your hand), the hues are just too childish, plus it turns into a Speak & Spell with the case on. Speaking of the case, I am surprised by the lack of attention to detail with the iPhone logo showing partly through the holes (neither shown nor hidden), it doesn't look nice at all...
I think Ive & co tried to channel the original iMac playfulness here, but it got just too playful.
And the 5S looks very retro bling-y with the new colors and details, especially the shiny trim around the home button. I know it serves a purpose, detecting touch, but it looks dated. It's like a piece of fine jewelry, but I am not sure that's what Apple is all about. Asian customers will be happy, though.
I think Apple needs to tend to their market share now, to protect their ecosystem. Don't do it when developers start to code for Android first, then Apple. That would be too late. I thought the iPhone 5C was going to be that kind of iPhone, but it's too expensive. And I'm not sure why they kept the iPhone 4S. Isn't it a pain in the butt for the iOS devs to keep one additional screen size? And for consumers one additional connector? Just don't understand that, knowing Apple likes to keep their lineup simple...
I've given up. The iPhone is the new mac - a niche device. Apple could have 50% of the world market - as they do in the US where they are subsidised by up to $200 per device. But they have to do it now. Or last year.
Just read on Forbes that the off-contract price of the cheapest version of the iPhone 5C is $549 - ouch! That's $100-150 more than I expected. As that's only 100 less than the iPhone 5S, I might go for the latter instead.
Just read on Forbes that the off-contract price of the cheapest version of the iPhone 5C is $549 - ouch! That's $100-150 more than I expected. As that's only 100 less than the iPhone 5S, I might go for the latter instead.
That's exactly my point. Why would anyone not pay a $100 more bucks to get a "way" better camera, the new touchId and "way" faster cpu/graphics, not to mention all the potential new applications of the M7 chip. On/off contract doesn't matter, in fact on contract makes it an even easier choice, $99 or $199. The 5S will still be an awesome phone in 2 years and very likely have excellent resale value.
"Maybe" if you had 5 kids to buy new phones for, the $100 difference would add up. For a one off purchase I don't know why anyone would pick a tacky plastic looking, much less featured phone for the sake of a $100.
Apple missed the plot on this one IMO, the 5C is pointless at this price.
I've given up. The iPhone is the new mac - a niche device. Apple could have 50% of the world market - as they do in the US where they are subsidised by up to $200 per device. But they have to do it now. Or last year.
But the assumed drop in margins was priced in when the stock hit $400 ish. The stock only increased with the rumours of a cheaper plastic phone - which we assumed was the plastic one. Since apple haven't delivered a cheaper iPhone it may drop again. Of course they have a Chinese chip but that may not be enough.
However does anyone wonder about a company which innovates with plastic covers and new cases. The fingerprint sensor doesn't do much. 64 bit apps are overkill for a device with 128G memory. nothing is really happening. Maybe they are playing the long game, or they have no idea.
I wonder about anyone who endlessly recycles the "innovates" whine. But that is probably just me.
That decision showed one of Steve Jobs strengths. He admitted mistakes. If he hadnt done that the iPhone would be dead in the water. Cook seems to be a bean counter. He's obsessed with margins.
I don't think Tim is so obsessed with margins as is the Stock Market and the analysts. However, both Tim and Steve are careful to not chase market share by giving up profit. Samsung is after market share at the expense of profit and now dealing with a near-revolt of their stock holders. What would you rather see apple having: Market share or profits?
Thanks.
I watched the presentation live and the 5C has enough improvements over the 5 to be considered a 5+ and the way they have incorporated color in the iDevice and the new rubbery covers ought to instill a hunger for the 5C by the younger buyers and the fashion conscious. Being much older, a businessman and conservative, if I were to buy a 5C I'd go for the white one with the black cover. So, it has appeal to everyone in my thinking.
The Japanese should go nuts over the 5C and I wouldn't be surprised of much of Asia as well. While no contract-free price was quoted, the 5C may not be as inexpensive as some had hoped. Apple has enough margin to work with to do some inventive marketing with the 5C, and they are now doubling their marketing department - they may have some plans to make the 5C as visible in print ads as they used to do with the iPod silhouette ads and make the 5C as ubiquitous as twerking.
As a customer and shareholder I agree with the vast majority that the 5c should be cheaper. I think they would sell a lot more even if it were $49 w/ contract and $499 off contract. It looks like Apple is taking all of the cost savings of the plastic case for profit with none of the cost savings being passed on to the consumer. Even better would have been a price structure of:
5c $0/$449
5 $99/$549
5s $199/$649
I think they must have been worried that keeping the 5 around would cannibalize too much of the 5s' sales.
It also seems that it's time to consider nudging down the price of the models with more memory. At a $100 premium Apple is making around 1000% profit on upgrades from 16gb to 32gb. I like Apple's profit margins being high, but I think they would sell a lot more larger capacity phones if they dropped the price down to somewhere between a $50 to $90 upgrade which would still maintain 500% to 900% profit on the upgrade.
I'm worried that the bean counters are beginning to run the store these days and Apple is getting greedy. For every iOS device sold that is another opportunity to sell iTunes songs, apps, movies, iBooks, accessories, AppleCare, etc., expands the iOS ecosystem, and often leads to the purchase of other Apple products. You have to get them in the door first though with an (unsubsidized) price of admission people can and will pay.
Key for Apple is ability to price these phones for $20 USD per month deal. If they can get some kind of long term contract pricing like that, then this will take off in China and India. Consumers don't seem to care about length of deal, but how much they need to pay per month.
It looks like they're going to use the First World to amortize the new radios and case tooling, to subsidize, in other words, selling these phones for lesser margins later in the Third World. (Apologies for using these outdated, politically incorrect terms.)
Look for these prices to start dropping after they start selling through China Mobile. I think they're giving them a deal, and we in the West are part of the setup.
Yeah, I know, I'm making stuff up, but there's no figuring out this company without using some imagination. One thing I do know is that Tim Cook knows what he's doing, and we don't.
Oh, and the colors clearly show that the intended market is young Western metrogenders and Asians.
I think it's awesome that Apple let a five-year-old pick the colors for the 5C phones and cases. Who would have though a five-year-old would be so in tune with mid-80's color palletes?
"Maybe" if you had 5 kids to buy new phones for, the $100 difference would add up. For a one off purchase I don't know why anyone would pick a tacky plastic looking, much less featured phone for the sake of a $100.
Apple missed the plot on this one IMO, the 5C is pointless at this price.
It looks like the 5C was their way of improving margins. The 5S is clearly the better product and having plastic components will lower their build costs. Having the upsell to the 5S increases their average selling price. If they'd kept the iPhone 5 around, that would have lowered margins and driven people to the 5 over the 5S.
Some analysts were probably excited to see the 5C as they've been banging on about Apple making a cheaper iPhone for emerging markets. Sitting between the 4S and 5S, the 5C isn't the cheap phone they were looking for.
Comments
But the assumed drop in margins was priced in when the stock hit $400 ish. The stock only increased with the rumours of a cheaper plastic phone - which we assumed was the plastic one. Since apple haven't delivered a cheaper iPhone it may drop again. Of course they have a Chinese chip but that may not be enough.
However does anyone wonder about a company which innovates with plastic covers and new cases. The fingerprint sensor doesn't do much. 64 bit apps are overkill for a device with 128G memory. nothing is really happening. Maybe they are playing the long game, or they have no idea.
I think Ive & co tried to channel the original iMac playfulness here, but it got just too playful.
And the 5S looks very retro bling-y with the new colors and details, especially the shiny trim around the home button. I know it serves a purpose, detecting touch, but it looks dated. It's like a piece of fine jewelry, but I am not sure that's what Apple is all about. Asian customers will be happy, though.
I've given up. The iPhone is the new mac - a niche device. Apple could have 50% of the world market - as they do in the US where they are subsidised by up to $200 per device. But they have to do it now. Or last year.
Cook is a disaster.
Just read on Forbes that the off-contract price of the cheapest version of the iPhone 5C is $549 - ouch! That's $100-150 more than I expected. As that's only 100 less than the iPhone 5S, I might go for the latter instead.
That's exactly my point. Why would anyone not pay a $100 more bucks to get a "way" better camera, the new touchId and "way" faster cpu/graphics, not to mention all the potential new applications of the M7 chip. On/off contract doesn't matter, in fact on contract makes it an even easier choice, $99 or $199. The 5S will still be an awesome phone in 2 years and very likely have excellent resale value.
"Maybe" if you had 5 kids to buy new phones for, the $100 difference would add up. For a one off purchase I don't know why anyone would pick a tacky plastic looking, much less featured phone for the sake of a $100.
Apple missed the plot on this one IMO, the 5C is pointless at this price.
Wish there were more colors geared towards the male customer.
Hey, does that mean you're going away?
Too good to be true.
Cook is a disaster.
/s
But the assumed drop in margins was priced in when the stock hit $400 ish. The stock only increased with the rumours of a cheaper plastic phone - which we assumed was the plastic one. Since apple haven't delivered a cheaper iPhone it may drop again. Of course they have a Chinese chip but that may not be enough.
However does anyone wonder about a company which innovates with plastic covers and new cases. The fingerprint sensor doesn't do much. 64 bit apps are overkill for a device with 128G memory. nothing is really happening. Maybe they are playing the long game, or they have no idea.
I wonder about anyone who endlessly recycles the "innovates" whine. But that is probably just me.
I don't think Tim is so obsessed with margins as is the Stock Market and the analysts. However, both Tim and Steve are careful to not chase market share by giving up profit. Samsung is after market share at the expense of profit and now dealing with a near-revolt of their stock holders. What would you rather see apple having: Market share or profits?
Thanks.
I watched the presentation live and the 5C has enough improvements over the 5 to be considered a 5+ and the way they have incorporated color in the iDevice and the new rubbery covers ought to instill a hunger for the 5C by the younger buyers and the fashion conscious. Being much older, a businessman and conservative, if I were to buy a 5C I'd go for the white one with the black cover. So, it has appeal to everyone in my thinking.
The Japanese should go nuts over the 5C and I wouldn't be surprised of much of Asia as well. While no contract-free price was quoted, the 5C may not be as inexpensive as some had hoped. Apple has enough margin to work with to do some inventive marketing with the 5C, and they are now doubling their marketing department - they may have some plans to make the 5C as visible in print ads as they used to do with the iPod silhouette ads and make the 5C as ubiquitous as twerking.
As a customer and shareholder I agree with the vast majority that the 5c should be cheaper. I think they would sell a lot more even if it were $49 w/ contract and $499 off contract. It looks like Apple is taking all of the cost savings of the plastic case for profit with none of the cost savings being passed on to the consumer. Even better would have been a price structure of:
5c $0/$449
5 $99/$549
5s $199/$649
I think they must have been worried that keeping the 5 around would cannibalize too much of the 5s' sales.
It also seems that it's time to consider nudging down the price of the models with more memory. At a $100 premium Apple is making around 1000% profit on upgrades from 16gb to 32gb. I like Apple's profit margins being high, but I think they would sell a lot more larger capacity phones if they dropped the price down to somewhere between a $50 to $90 upgrade which would still maintain 500% to 900% profit on the upgrade.
I'm worried that the bean counters are beginning to run the store these days and Apple is getting greedy. For every iOS device sold that is another opportunity to sell iTunes songs, apps, movies, iBooks, accessories, AppleCare, etc., expands the iOS ecosystem, and often leads to the purchase of other Apple products. You have to get them in the door first though with an (unsubsidized) price of admission people can and will pay.
And in a green only Regan MacNiel could appreciate.
Innovation = see Moto X.
Well, MOTOROLA made phones, Nokia made phones, people from the Far East made phones, Apple made phones, Google made phones,
Sir Jonathan Ive made phones...
People are phone makers, basically...
Key for Apple is ability to price these phones for $20 USD per month deal. If they can get some kind of long term contract pricing like that, then this will take off in China and India. Consumers don't seem to care about length of deal, but how much they need to pay per month.
Look for these prices to start dropping after they start selling through China Mobile. I think they're giving them a deal, and we in the West are part of the setup.
Yeah, I know, I'm making stuff up, but there's no figuring out this company without using some imagination. One thing I do know is that Tim Cook knows what he's doing, and we don't.
Oh, and the colors clearly show that the intended market is young Western metrogenders and Asians.
I think it's awesome that Apple let a five-year-old pick the colors for the 5C phones and cases. Who would have though a five-year-old would be so in tune with mid-80's color palletes?
Lol
I have an enemy and I don't even know who you are. Feel free to discuss the pricing of the 5C without personal attacks though.
It looks like the 5C was their way of improving margins. The 5S is clearly the better product and having plastic components will lower their build costs. Having the upsell to the 5S increases their average selling price. If they'd kept the iPhone 5 around, that would have lowered margins and driven people to the 5 over the 5S.
Some analysts were probably excited to see the 5C as they've been banging on about Apple making a cheaper iPhone for emerging markets. Sitting between the 4S and 5S, the 5C isn't the cheap phone they were looking for.