Started what? I don't care. I'm just pointing out that the stock usually tanks after product launches. So this is par for the course. And really the worst that can happen is sales aren't as impressive and Apple has to lower prices in certain markets. Will be a bit of an embarrassment but not something the haven't done before. They did it with the original iPhone, MacBook Air and Apple TV, and probably some others I'm not thinking of.
Started what? I don't care. I'm just pointing out that the stock usually tanks after product launches. So this is par for the course. And really the worst that can happen is sales aren't as impressive and Apple has to lower prices in certain markets. Will be a bit of an embarrassment but not something the haven't done before. They did it with the original iPhone, MacBook Air and Apple TV, and probably some others I'm not thinking of.
You lost track, didn't you.
... but so did I... I thought it was you who started this... it was nagromme. You jumped into it though.
Having said that, I want everyone who doubted Ming to apologize. The guy is well connected and proved 100% accurate. I'm waiting... and I told you so.
After a cursory search, here are at least three things Ming-Chi Kuo got wrong: the aperture (predicted f2.0), the convex fingerprint sensor (it's flat), and the 128GB storage option (still peaks at 64GB). If you're going to predict specifics and you get them wrong, you can't claim 100% accuracy. If Kuo made a correct prediction before other analysts, kudos. But I own a dartboard that can beat any given analyst at predictions.
The street always give the wrong reason of why a stock goes up or down. AAPL began dropping yesterday after 11AM PT when the show was over. The price of 3C was announced much earlier. It seems the investors was waiting for the one last thing that is a 5 inch iPhone. Apple has missed a huge market which is every bigger than iPhone. The combined sales of larger smartphones are bigger than iPhone. With a bigger iPhone Apple can resume growth.
a) Apple hasn't stopped growing, so there's nothing to "resume".
b) How about providing a credible link backing your claim that "larger-screened smartphones are outselling iPhone"? (While it's true that the combined sales of the entire global smartphone market is larger than Apple iPhone alone, the 'large screen' smartphones are only a small percentage of that total.)
From what I've read, 5-inch phones don't sell nearly as well as the rest of their smaller counterparts. There's a reason Samsung scrambled to release a smaller 4" version of the GS4, not long after reports came out that sales of the larger version were flat.
I think you're projecting your own assumptions using a false narrative here...
It's all about price elasticity. If Apple cuts its margins from 40% to 20% it has to sell twice as many phones to make the same profit. Whilst it can sell phones at high margins it will. Only when it struggles to sell enough phones will it cut its margins.
You know, If Apple can sales its whole production at current price, why they need to have a cheap product? Apple doesn't need to be big in China, they doesn't care at all about making cheap products and flooding the market with no margin device like most Android mfg about to die battling each other with poor product.
This.
This is not a race to the bottom. It's a marathon to get high value customers into your ecosystem.
the 'c' line solves a couple problems
1) Apple is now committed to 'fashion' with colors and phone covers (remember antenna-gate, and all the Apple Execs pulled their 4's out and not one had a case?... I bet Every apple exec in China will have a 5c with a colorful case)
2) its plastic. Minor changes in packaging (color!) is a lot cheaper to push into the production line. Meaning they can drive changes faster... I wouldn't be surprised that a new 'c' device is out every year, if not more frequently (my guess is the 'C's will update every 6-8 months)
3) Price. $100 isn't a lot, but with #1 above, and the ability to push new colors and configs (able to get cheaper memory/battery parts... push a change in the line), if they can keep their margins, then more 'middle class' people can afford them (and that's where the people are).... Remember... for "MOST" people... you could give them a free phone, and they couldn't afford to use it because of Cell/Data costs. Why even try? A phone is useless without at least a data plan, and at some point you don't have enough money to afford a $300 phone and a $50/month plan... Will lowering the price to $250 make a difference? And how good is an iPhone that only works when you plug the meter. You may as well buy an iPad mini.... (DING DING DING DING).
I guess September 10, 2013 will be known as day when the post-Steve-Era began.
Apple is now run by a bunch of out-of-touch, rich, middle-aged, white, males.
And guess what -- it shows!
What a dumb comment!
Rich, white, middle-aged males rule, and I am working on becoming one. I'm already white (though I did get a bit darker this summer), and I'm working on the rich part." src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
That's the beauty of these 5C phones. They can easily drop the price $50 if they need to. They could never do that with the difficult manufacturing costs of the 5. In fact I'm almost 100% sure that Apple will drop the price of the 5C in China/India after the initial sales push. Or they will sell the phones cheaper to carriers like China Mobile and have them subsidize the phones. In the USA there is no reason to drop the price below $99 subsidize.
I suppose Tim could go into Jony's office and tell him he needs to start designing things that are cheaper to manufacture. But that would be scary and really prove that Tim is just a bean counter. Perhaps Apple set the price so the had room to lower it if needed. And I could see them lowering it in emerging markets. One reason I think the mini was priced at $329 was so Apple could later add retina to it without increasing the price. Then they can reduce the price of the non retina mini and there are no price increases to announce.
And if Apple HAD cut the margins on the phone, the stock would have gone down because of the reduced margins. When Apple announced earnings in which margins declined slightly, the stock has dropped in the past. The market has to make up its mind: does it want market share or does it want margin?
In the U.S., the vast majority of people buy a subsidized phone, so the unsubsidized price is irrelevant to the consumer. In countries like China, I've never understood how anyone in the middle-class ever bought an iPhone or similar device, subsidized or not, but obviously the rising middle-class (and certainly the upper class) has bought iPhones in the past, so they'll continue to buy them at lower, if not the ideal, price.
Besides, there's nothing that says Apple can't reduce the price in China, India and other 3rd world countries.
As for the phone features themselves, I think the 5s is impressive, although not impressive enough for me to have to pay full freight to upgrade my 5. But what people need to remember is that Apple labeled these as "iPhone 5x's" not "iPhone 6x". It was always meant to be an iterative update. For an iterative update, the addition of the fingerprint sensor and the upgraded processor on the 5s is pretty good, IMO. I don't think the market even considers the supposedly improved performance of the 5s. They just think, "well it looks pretty much the same." They also don't seem to consider that most of the functionality that the user sees is in the OS, not the hardware.
I think these phones will do fine. And Android phones will also continue to do fine.
…after many months of rumors of the plastic iPhone were all but confirmed, I had accepted that it was coming and believed that Apple was going to make a play for greater marketshare.
That's your problem. The only error Apple can make is to listen to analysts. In this instance, they did not. Therefore they will succeed. Hooray.
But with the pricing of the 5c, that is not going to happen, so I'm not even sure why the 5c exists.
Ignore the tone, of course, since it's not directed at you.
Originally Posted by auxio
Tallest, you seem to be forgetting that, in almost every case where analysts and tech media have slammed Apple's new products, they've gone on to sell in record numbers. Just treat it as a sign that it's going to be another record-breaking year for Apple.
No, of course! Absolutely these products will succeed tremendously. The point is no one gets punished for lying or being worthless. The analysts who get it wrong need to be fired. That will teach the others to stop lying.
Whatever price one starts at, you can't raise it later and expect good results. However, if you are off some you can always come up with a REASON to drop the price a bit. Business does this all the time. Funny thing though, you can read some of these comments and tell, immediately, those who have never run a business! One fellow even suggested that bis BIAS was showing by what he wanted and projecting that onto everyone else's desires. But, I have always gone by ONE rule. If I don't like the item, or the price, or some feature, as reported by the "masses" I just don't buy it. A phone is not indispensable to living though many thing they are and submit some of the most outlandish reasons for why they have one--yet, before cell phones they can't give a cogent or coherent reason on how they handled things back then. And don't give me the "things change" argument. I lost my phone a couple days ago, I will have it back, probably this week... guess what? It's great!
I guess September 10, 2013 will be known as day when the post-Steve-Jobs-Era began.
Apple is now run by a bunch of out-of-touch, rich, middle-aged, white, males.
And guess what -- it shows!
Really. What's wrong or out of touch about the iPhone 5s? Looks like a really fine phone to me and I think it will do really well, especially with users who are still using a 4s or earlier model. As I posted earlier, this was never meant to be anything more than an iterative update and I think this phone far exceeded that. If it was meant to be more, it would have been called the iPhone6.
I think technology advances have spoiled people. My first electronic calculator cost about $200 (about $1000 in 2013 dollars) - the same price as a subsidized iPhone 5s.
Rich, white, middle-aged males rule, and I am working on becoming one. I'm already white (though I did get a bit darker this summer), and I'm working on the rich part." src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Good for you!
Problem is, once you are rich and middle aged, creativity and innovation goes out of the window...
Comments
Started what? I don't care. I'm just pointing out that the stock usually tanks after product launches. So this is par for the course. And really the worst that can happen is sales aren't as impressive and Apple has to lower prices in certain markets. Will be a bit of an embarrassment but not something the haven't done before. They did it with the original iPhone, MacBook Air and Apple TV, and probably some others I'm not thinking of.
You lost track, didn't you.
... but so did I... I thought it was you who started this... it was nagromme. You jumped into it though.
Having said that, I want everyone who doubted Ming to apologize. The guy is well connected and proved 100% accurate. I'm waiting... and I told you so.
After a cursory search, here are at least three things Ming-Chi Kuo got wrong: the aperture (predicted f2.0), the convex fingerprint sensor (it's flat), and the 128GB storage option (still peaks at 64GB). If you're going to predict specifics and you get them wrong, you can't claim 100% accuracy. If Kuo made a correct prediction before other analysts, kudos. But I own a dartboard that can beat any given analyst at predictions.
no, 'is'. Even at today's low price, the stock is higher than it was at any time during Jobs' leadership.
Nagromme said "has been 'way' higher".
So yes... has been.
Higher now, yes... but not 'way" higher.
The street always give the wrong reason of why a stock goes up or down. AAPL began dropping yesterday after 11AM PT when the show was over. The price of 3C was announced much earlier. It seems the investors was waiting for the one last thing that is a 5 inch iPhone. Apple has missed a huge market which is every bigger than iPhone. The combined sales of larger smartphones are bigger than iPhone. With a bigger iPhone Apple can resume growth.
a) Apple hasn't stopped growing, so there's nothing to "resume".
b) How about providing a credible link backing your claim that "larger-screened smartphones are outselling iPhone"? (While it's true that the combined sales of the entire global smartphone market is larger than Apple iPhone alone, the 'large screen' smartphones are only a small percentage of that total.)
From what I've read, 5-inch phones don't sell nearly as well as the rest of their smaller counterparts. There's a reason Samsung scrambled to release a smaller 4" version of the GS4, not long after reports came out that sales of the larger version were flat.
I think you're projecting your own assumptions using a false narrative here...
I guess September 10, 2013 will be known as day when the post-Steve-Jobs-Era began.
Apple is now run by a bunch of out-of-touch, rich, middle-aged, white, males.
And guess what -- it shows!
You know, If Apple can sales its whole production at current price, why they need to have a cheap product? Apple doesn't need to be big in China, they doesn't care at all about making cheap products and flooding the market with no margin device like most Android mfg about to die battling each other with poor product.
This.
This is not a race to the bottom. It's a marathon to get high value customers into your ecosystem.
the 'c' line solves a couple problems
1) Apple is now committed to 'fashion' with colors and phone covers (remember antenna-gate, and all the Apple Execs pulled their 4's out and not one had a case?... I bet Every apple exec in China will have a 5c with a colorful case)
2) its plastic. Minor changes in packaging (color!) is a lot cheaper to push into the production line. Meaning they can drive changes faster... I wouldn't be surprised that a new 'c' device is out every year, if not more frequently (my guess is the 'C's will update every 6-8 months)
3) Price. $100 isn't a lot, but with #1 above, and the ability to push new colors and configs (able to get cheaper memory/battery parts... push a change in the line), if they can keep their margins, then more 'middle class' people can afford them (and that's where the people are).... Remember... for "MOST" people... you could give them a free phone, and they couldn't afford to use it because of Cell/Data costs. Why even try? A phone is useless without at least a data plan, and at some point you don't have enough money to afford a $300 phone and a $50/month plan... Will lowering the price to $250 make a difference? And how good is an iPhone that only works when you plug the meter. You may as well buy an iPad mini.... (DING DING DING DING).
Just read my posts in this thread... I'm starting to sound like DED.... (sigh)...
Back to work.
I guess September 10, 2013 will be known as day when the post-Steve-Era began.
Apple is now run by a bunch of out-of-touch, rich, middle-aged, white, males.
And guess what -- it shows!
What a dumb comment!
Rich, white, middle-aged males rule, and I am working on becoming one. I'm already white (though I did get a bit darker this summer), and I'm working on the rich part.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
And if Apple HAD cut the margins on the phone, the stock would have gone down because of the reduced margins. When Apple announced earnings in which margins declined slightly, the stock has dropped in the past. The market has to make up its mind: does it want market share or does it want margin?
In the U.S., the vast majority of people buy a subsidized phone, so the unsubsidized price is irrelevant to the consumer. In countries like China, I've never understood how anyone in the middle-class ever bought an iPhone or similar device, subsidized or not, but obviously the rising middle-class (and certainly the upper class) has bought iPhones in the past, so they'll continue to buy them at lower, if not the ideal, price.
Besides, there's nothing that says Apple can't reduce the price in China, India and other 3rd world countries.
As for the phone features themselves, I think the 5s is impressive, although not impressive enough for me to have to pay full freight to upgrade my 5. But what people need to remember is that Apple labeled these as "iPhone 5x's" not "iPhone 6x". It was always meant to be an iterative update. For an iterative update, the addition of the fingerprint sensor and the upgraded processor on the 5s is pretty good, IMO. I don't think the market even considers the supposedly improved performance of the 5s. They just think, "well it looks pretty much the same." They also don't seem to consider that most of the functionality that the user sees is in the OS, not the hardware.
I think these phones will do fine. And Android phones will also continue to do fine.
…after many months of rumors of the plastic iPhone were all but confirmed, I had accepted that it was coming and believed that Apple was going to make a play for greater marketshare.
That's your problem. The only error Apple can make is to listen to analysts. In this instance, they did not. Therefore they will succeed. Hooray.
See the middle part of: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/159466/first-look-apples-new-iphone-5s-and-5c/160#post_2394440
Ignore the tone, of course, since it's not directed at you.
Tallest, you seem to be forgetting that, in almost every case where analysts and tech media have slammed Apple's new products, they've gone on to sell in record numbers. Just treat it as a sign that it's going to be another record-breaking year for Apple.
No, of course! Absolutely these products will succeed tremendously. The point is no one gets punished for lying or being worthless. The analysts who get it wrong need to be fired. That will teach the others to stop lying.
Don't you have a phone orgy to attend?
pretty sure you will get banned before the sun sets.
LOL
I think so too, after all, this is the Pravda of the Apple world....
Almost like that "Jobs would never..." chestnut. No one said Apple wouldn't reach 700 with Jobs. The fact is the stock never did under Jobs.
That sure hurt the iPad mini. Also it's a play for customers to shell out the additional $100 to get the 5S.
I guess September 10, 2013 will be known as day when the post-Steve-Jobs-Era began.
Apple is now run by a bunch of out-of-touch, rich, middle-aged, white, males.
And guess what -- it shows!
Really. What's wrong or out of touch about the iPhone 5s? Looks like a really fine phone to me and I think it will do really well, especially with users who are still using a 4s or earlier model. As I posted earlier, this was never meant to be anything more than an iterative update and I think this phone far exceeded that. If it was meant to be more, it would have been called the iPhone6.
I think technology advances have spoiled people. My first electronic calculator cost about $200 (about $1000 in 2013 dollars) - the same price as a subsidized iPhone 5s.
What a dumb comment!
Rich, white, middle-aged males rule, and I am working on becoming one. I'm already white (though I did get a bit darker this summer), and I'm working on the rich part.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Good for you!
Problem is, once you are rich and middle aged, creativity and innovation goes out of the window...
Just look at the idea-free-man aka Tim Cook.