Maybe, "if" Apple were just selling phones, but they're not. They also sell applecare, accessories, music, videos, apps, cloud services and other iDevices. If the reduced margin phone is attracting new customers to the ecosystem then given Apples unprecedented customer retention ratio, the loss of profit may not be as obvious.
That might be true - if they were making money on the iTunes sales. At one time, they indicated that iTunes was essentially break-even. I suspect that they're making money now due to the greater volume, but it's nowhere near as profitable as the hardware sales. So why would you heavily discount the hardware sales to sell something in much lower volume that's also less profitable?
I think I need to just stop reading stock sites for a month or two. It's too stressful being an AAPL shareholder and watching people constantly freak out.
Company insane amounts of profit, has more cash than it knows what to do with -- investors ready to jump ship at the slightest rumor.
Am I losing my mind? The 5c is basically 5 with different "clothes." Why in the world would they sell like a new model? To me that is a non-story as the issue is the 5S.
Frankly I have my doubts about the 5S, but that should be the focus, not how a 1 year old phone being re-released in different colors sells. As for the 5S, it will simply be impossible to match last years sales of the 5 if they arent taking orders online. I thought $450-460 would be the short term bottom, but looking more like $400 is going to be here by this time next week when they announce sales of the 5S.
Get ready for some more pain in the stock price, going to get ugly.
The new radio that is compatible over much more networks, including China Mobile, says it's a new phone for a lot of the world. As to "not taking orders online" that's simply a huge error on your part. They ARE going to sell the 5s online, starting September 20th at 12:01 A.M. PST. Just like various stories and Apple's own website has stated for days.
Except for one thing. When the shorts get active and spread FUD, it's precisely the institutional investors who sell. So, yes, active short activity DOES drive the price down.
Apple has far too high a percentage of its stock owned by institutions and should be encouraging individual ownership. A 10:1 split would be very helpful right now.
That would have to be a hell of a lot of FUD. Pension fund managers don't make flighty decisions. But I do concede that it's entirely possible for enough misinformation to be spread that over time institutional investors sell large positions.
I believe the difference here is that this year there is 2 new iphones... The numbers apple announces will not be model specific. It will be a combined number for both.. As it it the case when the report quarterly results!
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">You have cause and effect reversed. People sell a stock short when the general sentiment is that the stock's price will drop. There's no secret chatroom where the short sellers can flood the message board to spook other investors. There's also no way that enough people are shorting Apple's stock to drive down the price. The vast majority of shares are held by institutional investors like pension funds or life insurance companies. They are the only single entities with enough share holdings to make a difference in the stock price singlehandedly. Individual investors, even the sleaziest ones, have no power to move the share price. Hundreds of large individual investors would have to collude, and that isn't happening because those same investors are too busy managing the millions of dollars worth of other securities they own.</span>
Well when most investors listen to these clueless, manipulative analysts... Why people would trust strangers with their financial futures is beyond me.
I believe the difference here is that this year there is 2 new iphones... The numbers apple announces will not be model specific. It will be a combined number for both.. As it it the case when the report quarterly results!
It is however, the bellwether iPhone. and in the stock market 'bellwether >> flagship'
the 5s charts the future course, but the 5c is the 'financial workhorse' (alliteration not intended).
Sales of the 5c, (whether ever reported directly, or how they contribute to 'total iPhone sales' and ASP) for the next quarter will be the primary worry of wall street, because the it's the $100 and $1 phones that sell the most, and in the past drag down the ASP. If you read between the lines, the 'c' really is to maintain a reasonable margin, and allow some add'l discounts to the carriers and retailers (add'l discounts = more profits for them, and therefore their shelve space… if the 5c actually returns more profit than the 4s/5s, it will be front and center in stores).
Stock analysts can care less about how the high end units sell… it's ARPU and gross margins, and market share (the latter I agree, not for their reasons, but for the long long term reason of Apple's expansion of 'Halo Profits' from iTMS, Mac Sales, peripheral sales (Apple is selling phone covers, for more than Nokia sells some phones…. Think if BMW sold floor mats for more than price of a Ford Escape….).
And I do think that this iteration of 'plastic' phones will be lower margin (slightly) than past Q4/Q1 reports… because they won't have amortized the construction/assembly processes… now next release (which I think is in 6 months, with the A7/M7 chip), that process will be amortized and they introduce a '2014' 5c (likely with more/different colors), then the '6c' will be a 5s (maybe without the TouchID home button but the camera technology will be there), in parallel with the 6s.
My true belief is that Apple will be shipping new product more often in the 'c' line to keep the buzz up and the 'consumer interest fresh'.
The 'flagship' It will always be one step short of Concept Car… The Mac Pro of phones. Can anyone imagine what the 6 will be like? Larger screen? Faster processing/graphics? more memory? breakthrough battery life? We really can't guess, because it's really unimaginable now
I believe the difference here is that this year there is 2 new iphones... The numbers apple announces will not be model specific. It will be a combined number for both.. As it it the case when the report quarterly results!
We're talking specifically pre-order announcements here. Apple have done it every year for the 4, 4S and 5. This year they didn't which is reason enough for investors to get concerned.
There is no preorder for 5s, so there would be no "yearly pre-order" press announcement that included the 5s. Only the 5C is available pre-order and Apple already have those numbers.
Is the 5C a new phone? A lot of posters here say no, it is an old phone with a new case and therefore apple won't release numbers for an old phone. That excuse doesn't fly in my book.
I believe the difference here is that this year there is 2 new iphones... The numbers apple announces will not be model specific. It will be a combined number for both.. As it it the case when the report quarterly results!
We're talking specifically pre-order announcements here. Apple have done it every year for the 4, 4S and 5. This year they didn't which is reason enough for investors to get concerned.
I
There is no preorder for 5s, so there would be no "yearly pre-order" press announcement that included the 5s. Only the 5C is available pre-order and Apple already have those numbers.
Is the 5C a new phone? A lot of posters here say no, it is an old phone with a new case and therefore apple won't release numbers for an old phone. That excuse doesn't fly in my book.
I fully disagree.. The 5c is a new phone... It may share specs with the 5. But from apples point of view ., and form factor , style and material it is a new phone.
Yes i stand corrected on presale numbers.. But in those years there was only one new phone announced.
This year is different due to two new phones announced. .. Apple will not confuse everyone by putting out mismatched info.. Prelaunch numbers for 5c... No such number for 5s and then two separate post launch numbers for 5s and 5c.
They will put out one clean number for new iphone sales after the weekend of 20th.
In the same tradition of the quarterly reports!
Read my response to that post.. A couple posts above !
Believe me if Apple had something to shout about they would have already done it. Possibly when 5C and 5s sales are combined some record will be broken and an announcement will be made but the reason for no announcement on the 5C is obvious.
Comments
Following the same tradition.. Apple will announce first weekend sales numbers of all the phones combined after the weekend of 20th!
You have cause and effect reversed. People sell a stock short when the general sentiment is that the stock's price will drop.
That's not the only time.
There's no secret chatroom where the short sellers can flood the message board to spook other investors.
There is.
Apple has never announced model specific numbers.. Prelaunch or post lunch or quarterly!
Yes, they have.
Apple has never announced model specific numbers.. Prelaunch or post lunch or quarterly!
Following the same tradition.. Apple will announce first weekend sales numbers of all the phones combined after the weekend of 20th!
Ya what???
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/09/17iPhone-5-Pre-Orders-Top-Two-Million-in-First-24-Hours.html
If u disagree.. Please state when and what models and specifics!
Nope they have not!
If u disagree.. Please state when and what models and specifics!
Really?
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/10/10iPhone-4S-Pre-Orders-Top-One-Million-in-First-24-Hours.html
That might be true - if they were making money on the iTunes sales. At one time, they indicated that iTunes was essentially break-even. I suspect that they're making money now due to the greater volume, but it's nowhere near as profitable as the hardware sales. So why would you heavily discount the hardware sales to sell something in much lower volume that's also less profitable?
You forgot 'buying back 15% of its stock".
Am I losing my mind? The 5c is basically 5 with different "clothes." Why in the world would they sell like a new model? To me that is a non-story as the issue is the 5S.
Frankly I have my doubts about the 5S, but that should be the focus, not how a 1 year old phone being re-released in different colors sells. As for the 5S, it will simply be impossible to match last years sales of the 5 if they arent taking orders online. I thought $450-460 would be the short term bottom, but looking more like $400 is going to be here by this time next week when they announce sales of the 5S.
Get ready for some more pain in the stock price, going to get ugly.
The new radio that is compatible over much more networks, including China Mobile, says it's a new phone for a lot of the world. As to "not taking orders online" that's simply a huge error on your part. They ARE going to sell the 5s online, starting September 20th at 12:01 A.M. PST. Just like various stories and Apple's own website has stated for days.
Except for one thing. When the shorts get active and spread FUD, it's precisely the institutional investors who sell. So, yes, active short activity DOES drive the price down.
Apple has far too high a percentage of its stock owned by institutions and should be encouraging individual ownership. A 10:1 split would be very helpful right now.
That would have to be a hell of a lot of FUD. Pension fund managers don't make flighty decisions. But I do concede that it's entirely possible for enough misinformation to be spread that over time institutional investors sell large positions.
That's not the only time.
There is.
Can you please direct me to this chatroom? I would love to get in on the action.
Well when most investors listen to these clueless, manipulative analysts... Why people would trust strangers with their financial futures is beyond me.
I believe the difference here is that this year there is 2 new iphones... The numbers apple announces will not be model specific. It will be a combined number for both.. As it it the case when the report quarterly results!
Ya what???
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/09/17iPhone-5-Pre-Orders-Top-Two-Million-in-First-24-Hours.html
Nope they have not!
If u disagree.. Please state when and what models and specifics!
Uh, what??? What is that link that was posted just above you?
But this is not the flagship iPhone anyways.
It is however, the bellwether iPhone. and in the stock market 'bellwether >> flagship'
the 5s charts the future course, but the 5c is the 'financial workhorse' (alliteration not intended).
Sales of the 5c, (whether ever reported directly, or how they contribute to 'total iPhone sales' and ASP) for the next quarter will be the primary worry of wall street, because the it's the $100 and $1 phones that sell the most, and in the past drag down the ASP. If you read between the lines, the 'c' really is to maintain a reasonable margin, and allow some add'l discounts to the carriers and retailers (add'l discounts = more profits for them, and therefore their shelve space… if the 5c actually returns more profit than the 4s/5s, it will be front and center in stores).
Stock analysts can care less about how the high end units sell… it's ARPU and gross margins, and market share (the latter I agree, not for their reasons, but for the long long term reason of Apple's expansion of 'Halo Profits' from iTMS, Mac Sales, peripheral sales (Apple is selling phone covers, for more than Nokia sells some phones…. Think if BMW sold floor mats for more than price of a Ford Escape….).
And I do think that this iteration of 'plastic' phones will be lower margin (slightly) than past Q4/Q1 reports… because they won't have amortized the construction/assembly processes… now next release (which I think is in 6 months, with the A7/M7 chip), that process will be amortized and they introduce a '2014' 5c (likely with more/different colors), then the '6c' will be a 5s (maybe without the TouchID home button but the camera technology will be there), in parallel with the 6s.
My true belief is that Apple will be shipping new product more often in the 'c' line to keep the buzz up and the 'consumer interest fresh'.
The 'flagship' It will always be one step short of Concept Car… The Mac Pro of phones. Can anyone imagine what the 6 will be like? Larger screen? Faster processing/graphics? more memory? breakthrough battery life? We really can't guess, because it's really unimaginable now
I believe the difference here is that this year there is 2 new iphones... The numbers apple announces will not be model specific. It will be a combined number for both.. As it it the case when the report quarterly results!
We're talking specifically pre-order announcements here. Apple have done it every year for the 4, 4S and 5. This year they didn't which is reason enough for investors to get concerned.
There is no preorder for 5s, so there would be no "yearly pre-order" press announcement that included the 5s. Only the 5C is available pre-order and Apple already have those numbers.
Is the 5C a new phone? A lot of posters here say no, it is an old phone with a new case and therefore apple won't release numbers for an old phone. That excuse doesn't fly in my book.
I believe the difference here is that this year there is 2 new iphones... The numbers apple announces will not be model specific. It will be a combined number for both.. As it it the case when the report quarterly results!
You seem to have changed your tune.
Yes i stand corrected on presale numbers.. But in those years there was only one new phone announced.
This year is different due to two new phones announced. .. Apple will not confuse everyone by putting out mismatched info.. Prelaunch numbers for 5c... No such number for 5s and then two separate post launch numbers for 5s and 5c.
They will put out one clean number for new iphone sales after the weekend of 20th.
In the same tradition of the quarterly reports!
Read my response to that post.. A couple posts above !
Believe me if Apple had something to shout about they would have already done it. Possibly when 5C and 5s sales are combined some record will be broken and an announcement will be made but the reason for no announcement on the 5C is obvious.