Apple CEO Tim Cook on cheap smartphones: 'We're not in the junk business'

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  • Reply 101 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ImAndrewSmith View Post

     

    "New is easy. Right is hard." - Craig Federighi

     

    Bravo, sir.

     

    I feel like people are missing the point of the iPhone 5C. Everyone is looking at it like it's this whole new phone that Apple came out with and it's missing all of these features, etc. No... just no...

     

    What Apple has done is great, really. Instead of doing what they've been doing for years, which is knocking the year-old iPhone model's prices down $100, they've turned it into a new, yet same (if that makes sense), phone. They've redone the looks/components on the outside, yet kept the components on the inside the same(?) (is there anything different on the inside compared to the 5? I'm not positive. I know it's nothing worse, that's for sure.)

     

    So at the end of the day, they have a phone at the $199/$299/$399 price point, a phone at the $99/$199/$299 price point and a phone at the free price point. How is that anything worse than any other year? No one ever complained that the 4S was too much last year, or the 4 was the year before, etc... why is the 5C this catastrophe? They're keeping the same premise, but making it new at the same time. I applaud them for turning a piece of their business into something sort of new.

     

    I'm confused as to why people are confused...


    Even if Apple gave away phones AND subsidized contracts there would still be analysts complaining.  #FAnalysts

  • Reply 102 of 185
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    All valid points. Next few years will certainly be interesting. image

     

    you're all forgetting that next year Apple will likely knock the 5c price down another $100 and still be able to maintain it's profit margins. at that point Apple may also finally launch a larger screen version of the 5c at the previous price.

     


    and as long as Touch ID - clearly iOS' new "killer" feature - is not matched by other OEM's, Apple is not going to drop the price of its top model at all. so the 5s will be taken off the market next year like the 5 is being discounted now. then only the iP 6 would have Touch ID next year.
  • Reply 103 of 185
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    For me the greatest problem I see for the 5s is not its cost per say as it is what you get for that money. Here I'm specifically thinking flash memory which is quickly becoming marginal in capacity and too high in price on the iPhones. Really 32 GB should be the minimal configuration on a flag ship model. The system and the common apps demands it.

     

    I agree with this for sure.

  • Reply 104 of 185
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    Meanwhile, Mixpanel is showing iOS 7 adoption rate now around 30%. That's 30% in about 16 hours. image



    https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/ios_7/from_date:-2,to_date:0

     

    i think this is a pretty good indicator for the proportion of iOS users who are genuine "early adopters." more than i thought.

  • Reply 105 of 185
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

     

    Samsung's smartphones aren't junk either, but they're selling for $100 to $200 less and often have features that iPhones lack, such as larger screens.

     

    Apple's making the same mistake it made in the nineties. It's assuming that its products are different enough to command a premium price. But as technologies mature, it gets harder and harder to create products that are better enough to justify those higher prices.

     

    Apple's already began to hit that point in the curve. To justify keeping the price of an iPhone 5c high, they've been forced to blather on about color and plastic. That won't wash. Even a third grader can tell that the 'new' iPhone doesn't look any different from dozens of other phones that are also plastic and in bright colors.

     

    There's an old medical adage that, "In the early stages of a disease, diagnosis is difficult but treatment is easy. In the later stages, diagnosis is easy but treatment is difficult." The smartphone market is transitioning from one where new features matter to one where price matters more. If Apple doesn't come to that diagnosis while treatment is easy, it'll find itself in a situation where treatment becomes difficult as millions of once-potential customers are now happy Samsung users. It will find itself on the wrong side of product lock-in.


     

    To some degree I agree with you but the third week of January 2014 should give a clearer indication of Apple's condition.

     


    I believe the Chinese market is the key.
  • Reply 106 of 185
    kevtkevt Posts: 195member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

     

     

    Yes it is; the iPhone 5C is $80 cheaper than the iPhone 5 was, and is actually better in a number of ways (battery, camera, LTE bands).


     

    You're comparing it with last year's flagship model! 

     

    The 5 on which it is based is now last year's technology. It has been superseded. The right comparison, is with last year's 'previous model'. 

     

    The 5C is exactly the same price, despite the savings plastic affords.

  • Reply 107 of 185
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kevt View Post

     

    You're comparing it with last year's flagship model! 

     

    The 5 on which it is based is now last year's technology. It has been superseded. The right comparison, is with last year's 'previous model'. 

     

    The 5C is exactly the same price, despite the savings plastic affords.

     

    I'm comparing it to the model it most closely resembles.

    If you prefer to compare it to the iPhone 4S, then it is superior in just about every way you can name. The back plate is more durable now too! And for the same price as the 4S was selling for just a few weeks ago.
  • Reply 108 of 185
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,382member

    Awesome interview. Every quote they said made me happy. Confirms that Apple's philosophy and DNA has not changed, and that they still have their priorities straight and their eye on the ball. 

  • Reply 109 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

     

     

    i think this is a pretty good indicator for the proportion of iOS users who are genuine "early adopters." more than i thought.


     

    It's actually at 37% now. The number is rising quickly.

  • Reply 110 of 185
    kevt wrote: »
    See above. I don't doubt for a moment that Apple have done a quality job with the plastic. But it still plastic, and much cheaper to make. I liked the feel of my iPhone 3GS - in some ways the rounded edges made it nicer in the hand. But it doesn't have the same quality as the glass and aluminium finish of subsequent iPhones.

    I am not denying it's a very good phone. Only that having made it plastic and  cheaper to manufacturer, Apple is charging exactly what it has always done for last years model, except this time in a cheaper case. Savings => Apple's pocket.

    Good news for shareholders.  Bad news for customers.

    Another choice and a cheaper way to get into the iOS ecosystem is bad for customers?
    inkling wrote: »
    Samsung's smartphones aren't junk either, but they're selling for $100 to $200 less and often have features that iPhones lack, such as larger screens.

    Apple's making the same mistake it made in the nineties. It's assuming that its products are different enough to command a premium price. But as technologies mature, it gets harder and harder to create products that are better enough to justify those higher prices.

    Apple's already began to hit that point in the curve. To justify keeping the price of an iPhone 5c high, they've been forced to blather on about color and plastic. That won't wash. Even a third grader can tell that the 'new' iPhone doesn't look any different from dozens of other phones that are also plastic and in bright colors.

    There's an old medical adage that, "In the early stages of a disease, diagnosis is difficult but treatment is easy. In the later stages, diagnosis is easy but treatment is difficult." The smartphone market is transitioning from one where new features matter to one where price matters more. If Apple doesn't come to that diagnosis while treatment is easy, it'll find itself in a situation where treatment becomes difficult as millions of once-potential customers are now happy Samsung users. It will find itself on the wrong side of product lock-in.

    That sure sucks for Apple for being the most profitable PC maker. Oh wait.

    How's that transition going for price? Apple still sells 2 or 3 of the top five phone models in the world.
  • Reply 111 of 185
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,654member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by VicAustin View Post



    This sort of arrogant and dismissive language toward a group that includes all the people on the edge of becoming our new customers is not at all helpful to us stockholders.



    A device that is all it can be at a lower price point is a perfectly valid product. I agree completely that Apple has better opportunity in the high end market it dominates and owns. But trash talking is a lightening rod for the type of social pile on that cost ordinary people billions of dollars the last few days.



    Applause rings out from a bunch of fans who probably would be hard pressed to guess three issues to address to stack up a bunch of sapphire lenses. Apple's strength is in is design, engineering and execution. It's not some sort of bizarre reality show.

     

    I'm a stockholder and I disagree.    A company has to be pick its markets.    While BMW has cars priced from $31,000 and up, they don't make junk cars.    Apple is not in the business of making a Chevrolet Spark, Ford Fiesta or Kia Rio.    In the electronics world, look at Sony and Panasonic.  In the past, they made tons of low (and high) priced TVs and DVD/Blu-ray players.    They lost money on every one.   Neither Sony or Panasonic has made money on televisions in almost a decade.   They've both severely cut back on the 2013 product lines.  Last year, Sony said they would going to "de-emphasize" TV and might even leave the TV business, although they recently released new high-end 4K UHD models.   

     

    Apple's stock price has dropped in the past on announcements of increased sales, but slightly lower margins.   A substantial margin drop in the interest of market share would kill Apple's stock price, IMO.    You can already supposedly buy an Android phone for $50.   So how low would Apple have to go to compete effectively?

     

    That's not to say that I wouldn't like to see Apple phones and Pads sell for lower prices.    But I don't think Cook did anything wrong by declaring which part of the market they want to focus upon.   

     

    I applaud Tim Cook's statement that "we don't make junk" because it's a very clear statement about Apple's strategy.   In fact, I think they should go further.   If they want the strategy for the company to ignore the low-end of the market, they should only sell in high-end stores.   That was the purpose of the Apple stores.   I think they should stop selling in places like WalMart.      In spite of the fact that WalMart is the nation's largest retailer, I think selling in WalMart (and places like it) devalues the Apple brand.    

  • Reply 112 of 185
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,382member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

     

    Samsung's smartphones aren't junk either, but they're selling for $100 to $200 less and often have features that iPhones lack, such as larger screens.

     

    Apple's making the same mistake it made in the nineties. It's assuming that its products are different enough to command a premium price. But as technologies mature, it gets harder and harder to create products that are better enough to justify those higher prices.

     

    Apple's already began to hit that point in the curve. To justify keeping the price of an iPhone 5c high, they've been forced to blather on about color and plastic. That won't wash. Even a third grader can tell that the 'new' iPhone doesn't look any different from dozens of other phones that are also plastic and in bright colors.

     

    There's an old medical adage that, "In the early stages of a disease, diagnosis is difficult but treatment is easy. In the later stages, diagnosis is easy but treatment is difficult." The smartphone market is transitioning from one where new features matter to one where price matters more. If Apple doesn't come to that diagnosis while treatment is easy, it'll find itself in a situation where treatment becomes difficult as millions of once-potential customers are now happy Samsung users. It will find itself on the wrong side of product lock-in.


     

    Whar a ridiculous post. You seem to take your opinions extremely seriously with all that mumbo jumbo. First of all, what "mistake" in the 90s? Apple made alot of mistakes at that time, but I don't see a single analogy to today. Would they have been in a better position today than if they sold cheap shit back then? I don't get the point you're trying to make, other than the knee-jerk, mindless cliche of Apple being on the path to "being doomed" as they apparently have been forever, if we look at how often that statement is being repeated. Apple has the best selling Phones, tablets, music players, ultrabooks, notebooks, etc on the planet, the most active digital appstores in the world, and make the majority of the mobile industry's profits, all from products that get the highest customer satisfaction rates in the industry, so I don't know in what world they can be compared to what they were inthe 90s. 

     


    "Samsung's smartphones aren't junk either, but they're selling for $100 to $200 less and often have features that iPhones lack, such as larger screens."


     


    Is screensize really a "feature" that the iPhone "lacks". Screensize is just an aspect of a phone, not a "feature" like wifi, bluetooth, etc. The way you're framing it is intellectually lazy and childish, because you think it helps with some sort of point you're trying to make. I'm pretty damn sure Apple has the know-how to make a larger screened phone, they've consciously decided not to at this point (for a myriad of reasons). It's a design and product decision, not a lack of a "feature". Do you also think Samsung phones are lacking a "feature" of build quality? Of course you don't, even though that can much more be defined as a "feature" than screensize. Samsung's phones use some of the cheapest, ugliest plastic on the planet (as expressed even by reviews from Android/Samsung fansites) that almost every other OEM would be embarrassed to use, but apparently that doesn't factor into your "BUT SAMSUNG MAKES AWESOME CHEAP PHONES" argument. 

     

    Maybe you, and some third graders as you state, can't tell the difference in build quality from an iPhone 5C and some other cheap plastic phones. But the rest of us, and certainly those of us who read reviews, can certainly come to the rational conclusion that there IS a difference, and a significant one at that if initial impressions are anything to go by. 

     

    You can always tell a weak, trolling post by the way it ends with some shitty analogies (treatments/diagnosis) and yours certainly fits the bill. 

  • Reply 113 of 185
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member

    Picking up on what zoetmb was saying a bit, I think that this Burberry partnership  was a definite step in the right direction.  Apple connecting their brand to one such as Burberry is really helpful as far overall image goes.

     

    The less that Apple products in general, and iPhones specifically are seen as commodity products, the better.

  • Reply 114 of 185

    I wouldn't call the lumia 520 junk. Its $99 off contract. that's cheap enough for anybody to have one as a second phone. Heck load here maps onto it and you have a gps also (here maps allows you to download the whole USA maps on it for free).

     

    If nokia can make a quality cheap phone I do not understand why apple cant either.

  • Reply 115 of 185
    Ha ha! Good on Tim! What a clear, simple statement. How great is that?
  • Reply 116 of 185
    I wouldn't call the lumia 520 junk. Its $99 off contract. that's cheap enough for anybody to have one as a second phone. Heck load here maps onto it and you have a gps also (here maps allows you to download the whole USA maps on it for free).

    If nokia can make a quality cheap phone I do not understand why apple cant either.

    Worse resolution and this " the only delays we did experience were when opening the camera or third-party apps" from pcadvisor.com.

    Oh and how much $$$ is Nokia making on it.
  • Reply 117 of 185
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

     

    Samsung's smartphones aren't junk either, but they're selling for $100 to $200 less and often have features that iPhones lack, such as larger screens.

     

    Apple's making the same mistake it made in the nineties. It's assuming that its products are different enough to command a premium price. But as technologies mature, it gets harder and harder to create products that are better enough to justify those higher prices.

     

    Apple's already began to hit that point in the curve. To justify keeping the price of an iPhone 5c high, they've been forced to blather on about color and plastic. That won't wash. Even a third grader can tell that the 'new' iPhone doesn't look any different from dozens of other phones that are also plastic and in bright colors.

     

    There's an old medical adage that, "In the early stages of a disease, diagnosis is difficult but treatment is easy. In the later stages, diagnosis is easy but treatment is difficult." The smartphone market is transitioning from one where new features matter to one where price matters more. If Apple doesn't come to that diagnosis while treatment is easy, it'll find itself in a situation where treatment becomes difficult as millions of once-potential customers are now happy Samsung users. It will find itself on the wrong side of product lock-in.


     

    Now there is this huge misconception amongst Apple critics. Apple is not Samsung, it doesn't need to sell the most products, at the lowest price. They make the best hardware, the best software,  and people who buy them do so for the quality. Are you honestly suggesting no one will buy Samsung phones once Apple introduces a larger screen? Until they've perfected that experience, I don't think they'll release it. 

    Samsung isn't even close to Apple in terms of ecosystem, integration and quality. If the 100-200 price difference matters that much, those customers aren't worth it to begin with. Apple needs customers who actually buys apps, who actually uses the device. I've seen people buy S4s only to use them on a data free pre-paid plan. Tim Cook's right, Apple doesn't need the 50% of junk customers who'll use their phones no different from feature phones. For those people, there's Samsung.

     

    And to add on, the criticisms seem, to me, like they're coming from people who aspire to own Apple branded products, but are too price conscious to buy one. Since they're low value customers to begin with, why bother? Apple can easily dump 3gs models on the whole African subcontinent, but where's the value in that? #Flawgic

  • Reply 118 of 185
    Why would Apple cheapen their image? That's like asking BMW to make a Civic-like car with a BMW logo.
  • Reply 119 of 185
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    is this a joke post?

     

    Nokia sold 30,000,000 phones and LOST money.  That's the strategy Apple should follow?

     

    Also Nokia pays zero for R&D, retail stores, customer service, OS development, and OS updates.


     

    Have you seen sales in other countries besides the US? the 520 is selling a ton of phones. especially in china. Apple could have done some changes to the 4s to make it cheaper and sold it for say $150 or $200 OFF contract. Apple still could have made a ton of money.

     

    t is not a joke post. if apple took the 4s and took out say the front camera , use the plastic casing of the 5c , and did some other tweaks it could come up with a quality phone for a cheap off contract price.  The thing that is keeping Nokia afloat is their quality heap phones.

  • Reply 120 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    What I'm trying to say is that iOS and Apples stewardship of the platform is certainly worth a little extra Apple "tax". So better margins than the industry standard is good. However so good that you start to look greedy isn't so good.

     

    I completely disagree that there is an "Apple Tax".  A tax is a fee that adds no value.  My iPhone 5 and 2011 MacBook Air  were worth every penny I paid for them. In the case of the MBA, I think it was actually worth more than I paid for it. The value isn't just in the hardware, it is also in the software, which is often upgraded for free or at a very marginal cost.   

    Want some proof?  I open and close my laptop at least 5 times per day.  If I save 30 seconds because of better software, that's 2.5 minutes/day or 15 hours per year. I bill $300/hr, which means I've already saved $9,000 of time.


     


    What we really ought to be discussing is the "Microsoft Tax".  Microsoft's shitty software has caused me so much grief, stress, and lost time I will avoid using a Microsoft PC as long as I live.  The aversion is deeply encoded in my neural circuitry from past experience.  It's like when you vomit a certain food and don't like eating it anymore. 
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