Detectors that are not AC powered or hardwired together are not permitted in new construction! It appears there is NO MODEL of Nest detector that meets current requirements for smoke detectors in new construction. Certainly, Nest is aware of this - you'd think!
First you claim there are no battery operated Next Protect and now you claim there are no hardwired Nest Protect. Talk about flip-flopping.
In the UK you're only allowed hardwired ones linked together and encouraged to use ones with a built in backup battery so in the event of a power failure the alarms still work. Battery only ones aren't allowed at all and a wifi network isn't acceptable for connecting them. It makes the Nest Product useless and non compliant with current regulations.
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Originally Posted by zroger73
...It appears there is NO MODEL of Nest detector that meets current requirements for smoke detectors in new construction. Certainly, Nest is aware of this - you'd think!
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider
...
Like its sibling, the Nest Learning Thermostat, the Nest Protect connects to Nest's cloud service via Wi-Fi and can be monitored and configured with an iOS application. If a home has several Nest Protect units, they can communicate with each other even if Wi-Fi is not working to deliver emergency warnings throughout the residence; ...
Note the emphasis added to the original article. They can all communicate even if WiFi is not available. (and again, always check local code for ANY product)
While this is way overpriced for most people who require several, hopefully the wireless technology pushes the regulations to catch up to new tech. This will benefit all as other companies will be able to come out w/similar products c
Note the emphasis added to the original article. They can all communicate even if WiFi is not available.
They may not require Wi-Fi to communicate, but they don't do it over the wire that is normally dedicated to interconnection of smoke detectors (typically the red wire). The manual states they communicate over radio frequency. Neither Wi-Fi nor RF meets the requirements for hardwired interconnection of smoke detectors. Shockingly, the manual specifically states to cap off and not use the interconnect wire when replacing an existing smoke detector! I smell some liability issues brewing here. The first time someone dies of a fire or smoke inhalation in a home equipped with a Nest detector, Nest will probably get sued and end up settling out of court for hundreds of thousands of dollars before modifying their product and pulling out of the detector market.
I have 11 smoke detectors and only 2 thermostats. That's $1,548. I don't think I want 11 wifi devices helping to clog up my network either.
Holy cow! That's a lot of detectors! Our 2 floor (+ basement) 2000 sq ft home only needs 3 detectors - 1 on each level. And only 1 thermostat. When I get my own place, I would love to get a Nest product.
Holy cow! That's a lot of detectors! Our 2 floor (+ basement) 2000 sq ft home only needs 3 detectors - 1 on each level. And only 1 thermostat. When I get my own place, I would love to get a Nest product.
That wouldn't work here in the US. In addition to the 1 on each level, you must also have 1 in each bedroom and more - see previous posts or read the NFPA 72 standard.
I always thought CO, being heavier than air tended to sink, and therefore most sensors for it were designed to be placed nearer to the floor, typically at wall plug height. While it's cool that this device detects the poisonous gas, I have to wonder how effective it will be at ceiling height, especially if there is little to no circulation in the home at the time.
I always thought CO, being heavier than air tended to sink, and therefore most sensors for it were designed to be placed nearer to the floor, typically at wall plug height. While it's cool that this device detects the poisonous gas, I have to wonder how effective it will be at ceiling height, especially if there is little to no circulation in the home at the time.
The specific gravity of CO is 0.968, so it is slightly lighter than air at 70°F, but not by much. It would rise very, very slowly, but it would rise. Considering that CO is most likely to be produced by heating appliances, the CO tends to be warmer, so it would rise more quickly.
There's a bigger plan here - the aligns with the recent API. What if these smoke detectors were actually creating a zigbee/zwave mesh network in your home and somewhere next year you could suddenly use those expensive (but smart) detectors as your home automation backbone.
So suddenly your Shlage front door lock or the GE dimmers can be operated remote through the Nest cloud and app.
Would have loved to see Nest go after home security or something, like Canary.
I was pushing for home automation. Every year I look around my house and think "Automate ALL the things!", then I look at what's available, especially the low level APIs, and get annoyed.
I can see it already... Fire starts in the middle of the night. Every iPhone and iPad in the house starts going off with instructions on where the fire is located and what to do. Then, the Wi-Fi router melts and communication with the iDevices is lost. Nobody knows where the fire is or what to do next so everybody burns up. So much for $1,000 worth of smoke detectors that text you if your house is going up in flames!
Meanwhile, the sensible family down the street has five $20 detectors that all start beeping in the middle of the night. Instinctively, they all exit through the nearest door or window then call then immediately call the fire department. The fire is extinguished and everyone returns to a peaceful sleep.
Sometimes, it isn't necessary or advantageous to over-complicate things. 99.999% of all toilets still flush the same way they did 100 years ago. Car tires are still round. Toilet paper still comes in rolls. And, there is no advantage in changing that.
1 - ALWAYS check with your state, county, and city rules before doing ANYTHING with your HAVAC systems. Even some areas have restrictions on thermistats, hence the reason people even recommend a licensed electrician to install even a thermostat.
2 - ALWAYS check your state, county, and city rules on detectors of any kind. Depending on age of building, and such, rules change. Older building sometime get granfathered into older rules, sometimes you have to rip out and upgrade to code next round you have to do (within those 7-10 year replacement rules).
So my question is when all these wired groupings, one goes out, is it not more than the 30-50 bucks for a battery stand alone one? So it would not be much more for the Nest one. Unless you can get a 30 buck one, which with connected ones need more electronics, which means more money. Then if they are also CO as well, is more electronics. So, it depends on your code's and your pocketbook, if this item would be for you. If not, wait a bit, they will upgrade, or change it a bit to get more to fully update coded. This is the first generation for petes sake... give them a bit of time.
And as someone already put it, have we not heard all this gripping about price when the thermostat came out??? And that went down in flames how? Seems it is still around. So just like cars, you can pay 100K for a set of wheels or 30K for a set of wheels, still get you places. Up to the user on willing to pay the amount.
A $20 smoke detector will do just as good a job at saving your life.
That's the point. It won't if it is lying on a shelf somewhere with the battery next to it. By all accounts this is what happens when the damn things go off when they shouldn't.
1 - ALWAYS check with your state, county, and city rules before doing ANYTHING with your HAVAC systems. Even some areas have restrictions on thermistats, hence the reason people even recommend a licensed electrician to install even a thermostat.
<p> </p>
2 - ALWAYS check your state, county, and city rules on detectors of any kind. Depending on age of building, and such, rules change. Older building sometime get granfathered into older rules, sometimes you have to rip out and upgrade to code next round you have to do (within those 7-10 year replacement rules).
<p> </p>
So my question is when all these wired groupings, one goes out, is it not more than the 30-50 bucks for a battery stand alone one? So it would not be much more for the Nest one. Unless you can get a 30 buck one, which with connected ones need more electronics, which means more money. Then if they are also CO as well, is more electronics. So, it depends on your code's and your pocketbook, if this item would be for you. If not, wait a bit, they will upgrade, or change it a bit to get more to fully update coded. This is the first generation for petes sake... give them a bit of time.
<p> </p>
And as someone already put it, have we not heard all this gripping about price when the thermostat came out??? And that went down in flames how? Seems it is still around. So just like cars, you can pay 100K for a set of wheels or 30K for a set of wheels, still get you places. Up to the user on willing to pay the amount.
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
I hear you, but this isn't quite the same. I have the Nest thermostat, love it. It has saved me about 10% this summer (in central Florida at that) with no other changes.
This detector is awesome, but at that price point, I can't see many people biting. Like someone already said, you install this and forget it, hoping you never need it. Not the same as the thermostat.
The tech lover in me wants it but the practical part of me says...nope. Too much money for something i will hopefully never need.
A $20 smoke detector will do just as good a job at saving your life.
I used to have a car I bought for $300. Drove it for years in my youth and it got me from point A to B just as effectively as my new, expensive car does today. Yet despite that myopic, utilitarian view I much prefer the comfort and peace of mind of my current transportation.
I used to have a car I bought for $300. Drove it for years in my youth and it got me from point A to B just as effectively as my new, expensive car does today. Yet despite that myopic, utilitarian view I much prefer the comfort and peace of mind of my current transportation.
But you probably won't spend nearly as much time admiring your smoke detector as you do your car. You probably also won't be driving it often. Cars are status symbols. Smoke detectors are not. Cars are driven and used daily. Smoke detectors are not. Your comparison is invalid.
Comments
Directly from the Nest Protect manual:
- Must be replaced every 7 years
- Residential use only - not for commercial or industrial use (can't use it at your office, unlike the Nest thermostat)
- Should be installed in accordance with NFPA 72 (specifies number, type, and location of detectors and how they are to be installed)
So, a typical 3-bedroom, single-story home...
5 detectors at $129 each installed in 2 hours by a qualified electrician charging $100/hr. will cost about $900 every 7 years.
This is how Nest attempts to protect themselves:
"Specific requirements for Smoke Alarm
installation vary from state to state and from
region to region. Check with your local Fire
Department for current requirements in your area."
Seems a lot of rehash of the same that was said about the thermostat.
First you claim there are no battery operated Next Protect and now you claim there are no hardwired Nest Protect. Talk about flip-flopping.
Quote:
In the UK you're only allowed hardwired ones linked together and encouraged to use ones with a built in backup battery so in the event of a power failure the alarms still work. Battery only ones aren't allowed at all and a wifi network isn't acceptable for connecting them. It makes the Nest Product useless and non compliant with current regulations.
Quote:
...It appears there is NO MODEL of Nest detector that meets current requirements for smoke detectors in new construction. Certainly, Nest is aware of this - you'd think!
...
Like its sibling, the Nest Learning Thermostat, the Nest Protect connects to Nest's cloud service via Wi-Fi and can be monitored and configured with an iOS application. If a home has several Nest Protect units, they can communicate with each other even if Wi-Fi is not working to deliver emergency warnings throughout the residence; ...
Note the emphasis added to the original article. They can all communicate even if WiFi is not available. (and again, always check local code for ANY product)
Nope. I may be moving soon and don't see any reason to put money into the house.
Quote:
Quote:
Note the emphasis added to the original article. They can all communicate even if WiFi is not available.
They may not require Wi-Fi to communicate, but they don't do it over the wire that is normally dedicated to interconnection of smoke detectors (typically the red wire). The manual states they communicate over radio frequency. Neither Wi-Fi nor RF meets the requirements for hardwired interconnection of smoke detectors. Shockingly, the manual specifically states to cap off and not use the interconnect wire when replacing an existing smoke detector! I smell some liability issues brewing here. The first time someone dies of a fire or smoke inhalation in a home equipped with a Nest detector, Nest will probably get sued and end up settling out of court for hundreds of thousands of dollars before modifying their product and pulling out of the detector market.
Holy cow! That's a lot of detectors! Our 2 floor (+ basement) 2000 sq ft home only needs 3 detectors - 1 on each level. And only 1 thermostat. When I get my own place, I would love to get a Nest product.
Holy cow! That's a lot of detectors! Our 2 floor (+ basement) 2000 sq ft home only needs 3 detectors - 1 on each level. And only 1 thermostat. When I get my own place, I would love to get a Nest product.
That wouldn't work here in the US. In addition to the 1 on each level, you must also have 1 in each bedroom and more - see previous posts or read the NFPA 72 standard.
I always thought CO, being heavier than air tended to sink, and therefore most sensors for it were designed to be placed nearer to the floor, typically at wall plug height. While it's cool that this device detects the poisonous gas, I have to wonder how effective it will be at ceiling height, especially if there is little to no circulation in the home at the time.
I always thought CO, being heavier than air tended to sink, and therefore most sensors for it were designed to be placed nearer to the floor, typically at wall plug height. While it's cool that this device detects the poisonous gas, I have to wonder how effective it will be at ceiling height, especially if there is little to no circulation in the home at the time.
The specific gravity of CO is 0.968, so it is slightly lighter than air at 70°F, but not by much. It would rise very, very slowly, but it would rise. Considering that CO is most likely to be produced by heating appliances, the CO tends to be warmer, so it would rise more quickly.
Not everyone is like you. They don't need to suit every single potential customer in order to be successful.
My home has 2 smoke detectors and 2 thermostats.
Not to mention, of course, that the smoke detectors just might save your life
A $20 smoke detector will do just as good a job at saving your life.
What if these smoke detectors were actually creating a zigbee/zwave mesh network in your home and somewhere next year you could suddenly use those expensive (but smart) detectors as your home automation backbone.
So suddenly your Shlage front door lock or the GE dimmers can be operated remote through the Nest cloud and app.
There's a plan behind this!
Would have loved to see Nest go after home security or something, like Canary.
I was pushing for home automation. Every year I look around my house and think "Automate ALL the things!", then I look at what's available, especially the low level APIs, and get annoyed.
I can see it already... Fire starts in the middle of the night. Every iPhone and iPad in the house starts going off with instructions on where the fire is located and what to do. Then, the Wi-Fi router melts and communication with the iDevices is lost. Nobody knows where the fire is or what to do next so everybody burns up. So much for $1,000 worth of smoke detectors that text you if your house is going up in flames!
Meanwhile, the sensible family down the street has five $20 detectors that all start beeping in the middle of the night. Instinctively, they all exit through the nearest door or window then call then immediately call the fire department. The fire is extinguished and everyone returns to a peaceful sleep.
Sometimes, it isn't necessary or advantageous to over-complicate things. 99.999% of all toilets still flush the same way they did 100 years ago. Car tires are still round. Toilet paper still comes in rolls. And, there is no advantage in changing that.
1 - ALWAYS check with your state, county, and city rules before doing ANYTHING with your HAVAC systems. Even some areas have restrictions on thermistats, hence the reason people even recommend a licensed electrician to install even a thermostat.
2 - ALWAYS check your state, county, and city rules on detectors of any kind. Depending on age of building, and such, rules change. Older building sometime get granfathered into older rules, sometimes you have to rip out and upgrade to code next round you have to do (within those 7-10 year replacement rules).
So my question is when all these wired groupings, one goes out, is it not more than the 30-50 bucks for a battery stand alone one? So it would not be much more for the Nest one. Unless you can get a 30 buck one, which with connected ones need more electronics, which means more money. Then if they are also CO as well, is more electronics. So, it depends on your code's and your pocketbook, if this item would be for you. If not, wait a bit, they will upgrade, or change it a bit to get more to fully update coded. This is the first generation for petes sake... give them a bit of time.
And as someone already put it, have we not heard all this gripping about price when the thermostat came out??? And that went down in flames how? Seems it is still around. So just like cars, you can pay 100K for a set of wheels or 30K for a set of wheels, still get you places. Up to the user on willing to pay the amount.A $20 smoke detector will do just as good a job at saving your life.
That's the point. It won't if it is lying on a shelf somewhere with the battery next to it. By all accounts this is what happens when the damn things go off when they shouldn't.
I hear you, but this isn't quite the same. I have the Nest thermostat, love it. It has saved me about 10% this summer (in central Florida at that) with no other changes.
This detector is awesome, but at that price point, I can't see many people biting. Like someone already said, you install this and forget it, hoping you never need it. Not the same as the thermostat.
The tech lover in me wants it but the practical part of me says...nope. Too much money for something i will hopefully never need.
I used to have a car I bought for $300. Drove it for years in my youth and it got me from point A to B just as effectively as my new, expensive car does today. Yet despite that myopic, utilitarian view I much prefer the comfort and peace of mind of my current transportation.
But you probably won't spend nearly as much time admiring your smoke detector as you do your car. You probably also won't be driving it often. Cars are status symbols. Smoke detectors are not. Cars are driven and used daily. Smoke detectors are not. Your comparison is invalid.