I haven't been reading up on tech, only Apple rumors. Are the new iMacs having problems? Or are they mostly being sold with SSD anyways therefore making this possible point moot?
Seriously? C'mon Phil, now you're being disingenuous. If Ford built a car with a choice of engines, the least expensive of which would overheat, would you defend Ford by arguing that most people buy the more expensive engine so it doesn't really matter? Of course not.
No, no, I'm not saying that, only that I don't know if that could be the problem. Not defending them here.
I don't know how many HHDs vs. Fusion they sold BEFORE THE SSD WAS EVEN AVAILABLE, but it doesn't affect MY POINT which was that the design puts form before function.
Ok.
I think they wanted to get rid of the ODD and then started to design the new iMac without it. One could say they but form over function, I'd say they got rid of the ODD and designed the new iMac without one.
Look at it this way: the old iMac had a CRT. Along come flatpanels, and they designed the new iMac with one. Now this flat panel was quite thick, and Apple likes to create thin products. Still, they release it as they can see the innovation in the future will have thinner flat panels.
Or look at the first iPhone. It came with a 2Mpx camera. Pretty shitty, for a smartphone, but that wasn't where the focus lied, it was in multi touch and the software.
I think they did a fantastic job with the ODD-less iMac. I wouldn't buy one because I don't like the screens, because they're glossy and therefore use a MP + ACD. But I certainly don't need all these CPUs and memory banks. Putting the horizon back where it belongs in Aperture is the most intensive thing my Mac has to work on, because I don't always hold my DSLR straight. But I digress.
People hate change. There are some windows only programs so there probably was a need for win8. Apple already sold the hardware.
Your last statement is ludicrous.
I wouldn't put it down to people hating change. The guys that got them are typical gadget lovers that embrace new stuff, hence wanting MBA's in the first place. One guy simply hated OSX because there no "cut" shortcut and basically hated OSX. Didn't even got onto the point of programs not being available for OSX. Knowing there job's as well, they probably wouldn't have had much of an issue. We use a lot of web based apps to, which generally run better on OSX.
Second point was ludicrous, but why arnt Apple selling more. Years ago I always made the argument that it was down to the Windows monopoly and IT departments. But now? IT departments seem to have fully embraced iPads, the IT guys seem more likely to have Apple hardware than anyone else. When you look round IT agencies there hardware is almost mostly Apple, particularly digital agencies seem to be 100% Apple including the developers. Home users should be wanting Apple as they love their iPhones. And the figures we're looking at are sales! Id expect actual usage to remain with Windows for a long time but sales actually means people buying machines still arn't choosing Apple. Why?
So my thought is maybe people just don't like OSX. I love it and have had it for the last 11 years, but then I love Win Phone too and most people hate that.
I wouldn't put it down to people hating change. The guys that got them are typical gadget lovers that embrace new stuff, hence wanting MBA's in the first place. One guy simply hated OSX because there no "cut" shortcut and basically hated OSX. Didn't even got onto the point of programs not being available for OSX. Knowing there job's as well, they probably wouldn't have had much of an issue. We use a lot of web based apps to, which generally run better on OSX.
This guy must be stupid. The "cut " shortcut is command+X. Maybe they don't hate change, maybe they are just too lazy to learn something new.
This guy must be stupid. The "cut " shortcut is command+X. Maybe they don't hate change, maybe they are just too lazy to learn something new.
Randomly inconsistant, works in most places but then not finder. Bit like the delete key randomly doesn't work in finder either.
The combination of both those things makes it virtually impossible (if not impossible) to move a file from one folder to another without dragging.
Like I said, I love mac's, having been buying them for the last 11 years and don't really see a reasons to stop. But even if people are "too lazy to learn something new", doesn't that indicate an issue with a platform. We also upgraded everyones machine to Windows 8 this year and had 0 complaints/issues despite all the articles I read about people needing to be retrained. It's not even an office of MS lovers either, apart from myself everyone either had an iPhone or Android.
Why anyone would want cut in Finder is another issue.
As the first step, to be followed by "and paste."
If I want to remove certain files from one folder and put them in another, cut and paste would be a convenient way to do so. It's not the ONLY way, but it does seem like a logical approach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You were saying something about ridiculous remarks, I think? Come off it.
You said Apple consumers don't want optical drives. I'm saying there's no way to know whether they do or not. If Apple sold, say, the iMac both with and without ODD we could compare the numbers and see if there actually is real demand. Apple does sell one model (in two sizes) that still includes optical, but since there's no equivalent model sans ODD we can't draw any meaningful conclusions from how well it sells (or doesn't).
Funnily enough, they sell the MacBook Pro with and without. And guess which one sells more.
That's a external option though, it's not included and is 80 dollars extra, which is ridiculous when you consider that you can buy a thinner, lighter Samsung external DVD-RW for 35 bucks on Amazon and it will also work with Windows, Unix/Linux and Android, where as the Superdrive is OSX only. Plus there are no figures available as to how many Apple actually sells, just saying, please don't be angry at me.
You release a cheap Mac, margins would be lower. Not only that, people willing to buy the $1200 iMac will then buy the cheap Mac instead thus you lose a sale at the higher end. Soon more people will buy the cheap Mac and you eat your sales at the higher end and possibly eat the iPad sales. Thus lower margins and lower profit.
Those are VERY real concerns, especially the cannibalization concerns. But you seem to be too stuck on the technical problems and not looking at possible solutions nor are you looking at the larger problem. The larger problem is that Apple is NOT satisfied with PC marketshare. So what would be possible solutions. And I think that a lower cost iMac is a very real solution (resulting in R&D looking into ways to cut costs, provide enough computing power, while differentiating between the higher end iMacs).
Saying Apple is happy or that Apple doesn't do cheap is just being dismissive. Great companies NEVER rest.
Edit: what's funny is that I made this original post...then Ming Kuo announces that Apple will launch a cheaper iMac in 2014.
Wait, huh? Are we talking about SD Cards or DVD drives, doesn't ODD stand for Optical Disk Drive. I'm confused but I am on a lot of medication at the moment so it's not hard to do. My dog knows what's happening more than I do half of the time so maybe I'll just sit quietly in the corner. Please continue. Oh wait, I get it now, you're saying that a SD Card replaces the need for any other removable media, right?
Yep, we were talking about optical drives. He said we couldn’t know how well a Mac with an ODD could do because they don’t sell one with and without simultaneously. He said iMac specifically, but the principle is the same when applied to the MacBook Pro, since it IS the case there.
Those are VERY real concerns, especially the cannibalization concerns. But you seem to be too stuck on the technical problems and not looking at possible solutions nor are you looking at the larger problem. The larger problem is that Apple is NOT satisfied with PC marketshare. So what would be possible solutions. And I think that a lower cost iMac is a very real solution (resulting in R&D looking into ways to cut costs, provide enough computing power, while differentiating between the higher end iMacs).
Saying Apple is happy or that Apple doesn't do cheap is just being dismissive. Great companies NEVER rest.
Edit: what's funny is that I made this original post...then Ming Kuo announces that Apple will launch a cheaper iMac in 2014.
If Apple wants to have a new lower end model, perhaps bring back the 17" at $999. Apple will never ever have the majority of PCs simply because Apple does not want to play in the low margins, cheap-ass PC market. Fact is the money is in the market (>$1000) Apple is currently dominating.
Chasing market share just for market share would be disastrous. Look at the US auto industry. They made cars, trucks, SUVs at every size and that almost killed them. Hell, GM had several car brands competing against each other!
Wait, huh? Are we talking about SD Cards or DVD drives, doesn't ODD stand for Optical Disk Drive. I'm confused but I am on a lot of medication at the moment so it's not hard to do. My dog knows what's happening more than I do half of the time so maybe I'll just sit quietly in the corner. Please continue. Oh wait, I get it now, you're saying that a SD Card replaces the need for any other removable media, right?
Are you telling me I can't insert disks like CD's in my mac??
Funnily enough, they sell the MacBook Pro with and without. And guess which one sells more.
I actually typed, then deleted, "...and don't trot out the MacBook Pro because they are NOT equivalent and thus not a reasonable comparison." I thought it was silly to bother including that because it was TOO OBVIOUS.
Besides, we don't know which version is selling better anyway.
"people buy macs because they have stuff they need and don't need the stuff they don't have "
Because the article is saying that the number of people buying PCs is growing while the number of people buying Macs is shrinking. So, "why not" is because it's possible it's not true. Or maybe it is, but we don't really know and it's no longer a safe assumption (if it ever really was).
All this "conventional wisdom" about what makes a Mac the preferred choice is obviously flawed somewhere. Instead of the typical Gospel of Mac platitudes, it would be interesting to hear some genuine original thinking applied to the question of why share is shrinking. I thought Apple users are supposed to be the creative ones?
Because the article is saying that the number of people buying PCs is growing while the number of people buying Macs is shrinking. So, "why not" is because it's possible it's not true. Or maybe it is, but we don't really know and it's no longer a safe assumption (if it ever really was).
All this "conventional wisdom" about what makes a Mac the preferred choice is obviously flawed somewhere. Instead of the typical Gospel of Mac platitudes, it would be interesting to hear some genuine original thinking applied to the question of why share is shrinking. I thought Apple users are supposed to be the creative ones?
introduction of iPad might be one.
that isn't being factored in here.
more people might want to go from mac to iPad than PC to iPad as then they will have a better integration and ecosystem.
This coupled with the need to upgrade your Mac/PC almost every year being virtually non existent could be a reason.
Comments
No, no, I'm not saying that, only that I don't know if that could be the problem. Not defending them here.
Ok.
I think they wanted to get rid of the ODD and then started to design the new iMac without it. One could say they but form over function, I'd say they got rid of the ODD and designed the new iMac without one.
Look at it this way: the old iMac had a CRT. Along come flatpanels, and they designed the new iMac with one. Now this flat panel was quite thick, and Apple likes to create thin products. Still, they release it as they can see the innovation in the future will have thinner flat panels.
Or look at the first iPhone. It came with a 2Mpx camera. Pretty shitty, for a smartphone, but that wasn't where the focus lied, it was in multi touch and the software.
I think they did a fantastic job with the ODD-less iMac. I wouldn't buy one because I don't like the screens, because they're glossy and therefore use a MP + ACD. But I certainly don't need all these CPUs and memory banks. Putting the horizon back where it belongs in Aperture is the most intensive thing my Mac has to work on, because I don't always hold my DSLR straight. But I digress.
People hate change. There are some windows only programs so there probably was a need for win8. Apple already sold the hardware.
Your last statement is ludicrous.
I wouldn't put it down to people hating change. The guys that got them are typical gadget lovers that embrace new stuff, hence wanting MBA's in the first place. One guy simply hated OSX because there no "cut" shortcut and basically hated OSX. Didn't even got onto the point of programs not being available for OSX. Knowing there job's as well, they probably wouldn't have had much of an issue. We use a lot of web based apps to, which generally run better on OSX.
Second point was ludicrous, but why arnt Apple selling more. Years ago I always made the argument that it was down to the Windows monopoly and IT departments. But now? IT departments seem to have fully embraced iPads, the IT guys seem more likely to have Apple hardware than anyone else. When you look round IT agencies there hardware is almost mostly Apple, particularly digital agencies seem to be 100% Apple including the developers. Home users should be wanting Apple as they love their iPhones. And the figures we're looking at are sales! Id expect actual usage to remain with Windows for a long time but sales actually means people buying machines still arn't choosing Apple. Why?
So my thought is maybe people just don't like OSX. I love it and have had it for the last 11 years, but then I love Win Phone too and most people hate that.
The only reason Apple's consumers don't consume optical drives is because they CAN'T.
You were saying something about ridiculous remarks, I think? Come off it.
This guy must be stupid. The "cut " shortcut is command+X. Maybe they don't hate change, maybe they are just too lazy to learn something new.
Finder.
Why anyone would want cut in Finder is another issue.
This guy must be stupid. The "cut " shortcut is command+X. Maybe they don't hate change, maybe they are just too lazy to learn something new.
Randomly inconsistant, works in most places but then not finder. Bit like the delete key randomly doesn't work in finder either.
The combination of both those things makes it virtually impossible (if not impossible) to move a file from one folder to another without dragging.
Like I said, I love mac's, having been buying them for the last 11 years and don't really see a reasons to stop. But even if people are "too lazy to learn something new", doesn't that indicate an issue with a platform. We also upgraded everyones machine to Windows 8 this year and had 0 complaints/issues despite all the articles I read about people needing to be retrained. It's not even an office of MS lovers either, apart from myself everyone either had an iPhone or Android.
Why anyone would want cut in Finder is another issue.
As the first step, to be followed by "and paste."
If I want to remove certain files from one folder and put them in another, cut and paste would be a convenient way to do so. It's not the ONLY way, but it does seem like a logical approach.
You were saying something about ridiculous remarks, I think? Come off it.
You said Apple consumers don't want optical drives. I'm saying there's no way to know whether they do or not. If Apple sold, say, the iMac both with and without ODD we could compare the numbers and see if there actually is real demand. Apple does sell one model (in two sizes) that still includes optical, but since there's no equivalent model sans ODD we can't draw any meaningful conclusions from how well it sells (or doesn't).
If Apple sold, say, the iMac both with and without ODD we could compare the numbers and see if there actually is real demand.
Funnily enough, they sell the MacBook Pro with and without. And guess which one sells more.
Funnily enough, they sell the MacBook Pro with and without. And guess which one sells more.
That's a external option though, it's not included and is 80 dollars extra, which is ridiculous when you consider that you can buy a thinner, lighter Samsung external DVD-RW for 35 bucks on Amazon and it will also work with Windows, Unix/Linux and Android, where as the Superdrive is OSX only. Plus there are no figures available as to how many Apple actually sells, just saying, please don't be angry at me.
Huh?
You release a cheap Mac, margins would be lower. Not only that, people willing to buy the $1200 iMac will then buy the cheap Mac instead thus you lose a sale at the higher end. Soon more people will buy the cheap Mac and you eat your sales at the higher end and possibly eat the iPad sales. Thus lower margins and lower profit.
Those are VERY real concerns, especially the cannibalization concerns. But you seem to be too stuck on the technical problems and not looking at possible solutions nor are you looking at the larger problem. The larger problem is that Apple is NOT satisfied with PC marketshare. So what would be possible solutions. And I think that a lower cost iMac is a very real solution (resulting in R&D looking into ways to cut costs, provide enough computing power, while differentiating between the higher end iMacs).
Saying Apple is happy or that Apple doesn't do cheap is just being dismissive. Great companies NEVER rest.
Edit: what's funny is that I made this original post...then Ming Kuo announces that Apple will launch a cheaper iMac in 2014.
Huh?
Wait, huh? Are we talking about SD Cards or DVD drives, doesn't ODD stand for Optical Disk Drive. I'm confused but I am on a lot of medication at the moment so it's not hard to do. My dog knows what's happening more than I do half of the time so maybe I'll just sit quietly in the corner. Please continue. Oh wait, I get it now, you're saying that a SD Card replaces the need for any other removable media, right?
Yep, we were talking about optical drives. He said we couldn’t know how well a Mac with an ODD could do because they don’t sell one with and without simultaneously. He said iMac specifically, but the principle is the same when applied to the MacBook Pro, since it IS the case there.
If Apple wants to have a new lower end model, perhaps bring back the 17" at $999. Apple will never ever have the majority of PCs simply because Apple does not want to play in the low margins, cheap-ass PC market. Fact is the money is in the market (>$1000) Apple is currently dominating.
Chasing market share just for market share would be disastrous. Look at the US auto industry. They made cars, trucks, SUVs at every size and that almost killed them. Hell, GM had several car brands competing against each other!
Wait, huh? Are we talking about SD Cards or DVD drives, doesn't ODD stand for Optical Disk Drive. I'm confused but I am on a lot of medication at the moment so it's not hard to do. My dog knows what's happening more than I do half of the time so maybe I'll just sit quietly in the corner. Please continue. Oh wait, I get it now, you're saying that a SD Card replaces the need for any other removable media, right?
Are you telling me I can't insert disks like CD's in my mac??
well.
why not phrase it
"people buy macs because they have stuff they need and don't need the stuff they don't have "
Funnily enough, they sell the MacBook Pro with and without. And guess which one sells more.
I actually typed, then deleted, "...and don't trot out the MacBook Pro because they are NOT equivalent and thus not a reasonable comparison." I thought it was silly to bother including that because it was TOO OBVIOUS.
Besides, we don't know which version is selling better anyway.
well.
why not phrase it
"people buy macs because they have stuff they need and don't need the stuff they don't have "
Because the article is saying that the number of people buying PCs is growing while the number of people buying Macs is shrinking. So, "why not" is because it's possible it's not true. Or maybe it is, but we don't really know and it's no longer a safe assumption (if it ever really was).
All this "conventional wisdom" about what makes a Mac the preferred choice is obviously flawed somewhere. Instead of the typical Gospel of Mac platitudes, it would be interesting to hear some genuine original thinking applied to the question of why share is shrinking. I thought Apple users are supposed to be the creative ones?
Because the article is saying that the number of people buying PCs is growing while the number of people buying Macs is shrinking. So, "why not" is because it's possible it's not true. Or maybe it is, but we don't really know and it's no longer a safe assumption (if it ever really was).
All this "conventional wisdom" about what makes a Mac the preferred choice is obviously flawed somewhere. Instead of the typical Gospel of Mac platitudes, it would be interesting to hear some genuine original thinking applied to the question of why share is shrinking. I thought Apple users are supposed to be the creative ones?
introduction of iPad might be one.
that isn't being factored in here.
more people might want to go from mac to iPad than PC to iPad as then they will have a better integration and ecosystem.
This coupled with the need to upgrade your Mac/PC almost every year being virtually non existent could be a reason.
…they are NOT equivalent…
Well, it’s identical to what you’re wanting, except it’s real instead of fantasy.
And yes, we do know which is selling better.