IF the numbers are fairly accurate (big IF IMO) it would only be a 4% increase despite a whole lotta Apple advertising and promotion of the 5c. I'd think you'd be more likely to see that as a disappointing increase considering the efforts in promoting it.
Nice spin: numbers go up = big disappointment
How big should the numbers be for you call it a success?
How big should the numbers be for you call it a success?
Considering all (or nearly all) of Apple's advertising efforts on the 2 new iPhone models have gone to the 5c with promotional support from print ads, POP displays, in-store-promotions, street posters and television ads I would think you might expect a bigger bump wouldn't you?
Wrong - it means Apple has failed in its expectations to have the "budget" 5C as its biggest-selling phone; instead, it's gonna be sitting in inventories all over the world because no one could give a crap about it.
And some of the geniuses around here were still asking me for "facts" about my negative statements concerning the 5C - early price cuts, less than 1/3 of sales even though the flagship model is way more expensive...this means weak demand and nothing else.
In fact, this reminds of Apple's dark years when it completely miscalculated demand for the PowerBook, not being able to fulfil orders as it should have...and Cook, the world's former "best COO", does it again...pathetic.
You are getting beyond obnoxious now. Just yesterday you said the 5C was a failure because it didn't sell any.
You were, obviously, proven wrong with the facts:
-all carriers have said the 5C is the 2nd best selling phone (2nd only to the 5S)
-This report of ~3 million iPhone 5Cs were sold the first weekend- which is more than any Samsung (or any phone) has ever sold their first weekend.
So now you are changing your tune- from yesterday- from "The 5C was a failure because it didn't sell any" to "Apple failed because the 5C was supposed to be the best selling iPhone". Which is even dumber than your previous dumb comment. Who releases two products- one (5S) that is substantially improved and uses a year's newer technology- at a premium of only 15% more than the 2nd tier version (5C)- and expects the 2nd tier to sell better?
Your comments are asinine. I assume you are an Apple fan (based on your signature)- and you disagree with the 5C. And no matter what the facts say- you just can't be disproven. Tallest Skil thought the iPad mini was a ridiculously dumb idea, but now knows it was a great move on Apple's part because the sales and numbers prove it. I said I thought the iPad mini was priced wrong- it should have been $299- and that I wouldn't own one. I also said the iPod Touch 5th gen was $50 too much and that I'd never own one. I own both. And I was wrong in both instances. When the facts are shooting you between the eyes- let me tell you- it's ok to be wrong. The 5C is not a failure- and, if you haven't held one in your hand (like I hadn't when I made the comment about the 5th gen iPod Touch)- then you really shouldn't comment on it. It is a remarkably great build quality.
Apple sold the 4 and the 4s alongside each other in 2011.
And the 3G and 3GS alongside each other in 2009.
Originally Posted by macxpress0660
Citation needed...
You’d better be joking.
Originally Posted by sog35
Next year
5C - $0
6C - $99 (Plastic case, touch ID, A7)
6 - $199
6L - $249
Nope. 6C will have an A8 and be launched in 2015. You’ve taken the 5SC and named it 6C, which it won’t be, because it’s in no way an iPhone 6.
5 - A6
5C - A6
5S - A7
6 - A8
6C - A8
6S - A9
Next year’s the 5C at $0, 5SC at $99, and 6 at $199. Year after is 5SC at $0, 6C at $99, and 6S at $199. Then the 6C at $0, 6SC at $99, and 7 at $199.
And this nonsense wouldn’t be happening if they’d just listened to me. Now we have the late ‘90s all over again. Thanks Performa 5210CD, PowerMac 5200/75 LC, Quadra 660AV, and LC 580.
From those four names, without looking up specs, can YOU tell which one is the best?
Originally Posted by Andysol
Tallest Skil thought the iPad mini was a ridiculously dumb idea, but now knows it was a great move on Apple's part because the sales and numbers prove it.
Ap, bap bap, nope. I maintain it could be dumb. It sends the wrong message for what the future of devices will be, unless they go with a four tablet lineup.
I totally agree with you about him, though. " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" /> 5C was a “budget” phone in the hearts and minds of analysts ONLY, and at no time was it ever stated by anyone with any actual clout that it is anything but a 5-at-midrange replacement.
Considering all (or nearly all) of Apple's advertising efforts on the 2 new iPhone models have gone to the 5c with promotional support from print ads, POP displays, in-store-promotions, street posters and television ads I would think you might expect a bigger bump wouldn't you?
It's been on sale for three weeks. How many contracts were up?
The buyers of the 5C aren't the same as for the 5S.
Next year’s the 5C at $0, 5SC at $99, and 6 at $199. Year after is 5SC at $0, 6C at $99, and 6S at $199. Then the 6C at $0, 6SC at $99, and 7 at $199.
I think you're right. I also think next year they implement a bigger sized screen option too. Hoping they keep a 4" 6, but also give us a larger (4.3 or 4.8) option additionally. That would only expand the market- and I, personally, would love the larger screen. Who cares about everyone else.
More display space. Hmmmm... good point. Last year and the year before and the year before etc... all I saw was the latest iPhone being advertised. This year I don't see any adverts at all for the 5sbut I sure see a lot of brightly colored posters for the 5c.
True, but if you go in the stores, you will see both models on display. The 4S is still being offered, but it is not on display (at least at the stores I have been in).
Wrong - it means Apple has failed in its expectations to have the "budget" 5C as its biggest-selling phone; instead, it's gonna be sitting in inventories all over the world because no one could give a crap about it.
And some of the geniuses around here were still asking me for "facts" about my negative statements concerning the 5C - early price cuts, less than 1/3 of sales even though the flagship model is way more expensive...this means weak demand and nothing else.
In fact, this reminds of Apple's dark years when it completely miscalculated demand for the PowerBook, not being able to fulfil orders as it should have...and Cook, the world's former "best COO", does it again...pathetic.
The moment I read the headline, I immediately thought "I wonder how brlaywer is going to spin this to save face".
Needless to say, you spun it so fast to do damage control, you come across even more of a troll than had you just kept quiet and scurried to the back corner of the room. You didn't disappoint.
However, it is fun to watch everyone calling you on it. Frankly, you had it coming and deserved it troll.
Considering all (or nearly all) of Apple's advertising efforts on the 2 new iPhone models have gone to the 5c with promotional support from print ads, POP displays, in-store-promotions, street posters and television ads I would think you might expect a bigger bump wouldn't you?
Not sure why you are asking me. I was asking you that question. I would like you to quantify what you think "not disappointing" means.
I'm going to tell you why I think the number is fine, but I expect quid pro quo from you. Simply put, the 5c is not an upgrade path for iPhone 5 users. It's virtually the same phone, and makes no sense at any price. It makes sense for someone using an iPhone 4 or 4S, and there are two kinds of iPhone 4/4S buyers: those who got their phone when it was new at $199+ (latest and greatest), and those who got it when it was last year's model selling for $99 (budget conscious). Based on last year's percentages, around 1 in 4 iPhone buyers is budget conscious. No amount of advertising will change you from one category to the other. If you got your iPhone 4/4S because it was the latest and greatest, you're not going to settle for the 5c. If $199 was too much for an iPhone 4/4S, it's still too much for the 5s. So the ratio isn't going to drastically change.
If you got your iPhone 4/4S because it was the latest and greatest, you're not going to settle for the 5c. If $199 was too much for an iPhone 4/4S, it's still too much for the 5s. So the ratio isn't going to drastically change.
I had to talk my co-worker into getting the 5C because he was just going to get the 4S because it was free. Even with the $50 GC best buy was doing- it was an act of congress for him to pony up $50 freakin' dollars. Some people are just flat out cheap or don't care.
Newton is dead on- if you're a "latest greatest" guy (see- get new iPhone the first month it comes out)- then you're getting the 5s. We haven't even begun to see the true sales of the 5C- and they are strong already!
"The new data also suggests that the iPhone 5c is not carving out a larger share of overall iPhone sales than the iPhone 4S managed last year, when it was the company's $100-on-contract handset.
With the iPhone 5c taking 27 percent this year, it's just slightly ahead of the 23 percent share the iPhone 4S captured during the same period in 2012, just after the launch of the iPhone 5."
"not carving out a larger share"
OR
"the iPhone 5c taking 27 percent this year, it's just slightly ahead of the 23 percent share the iPhone 4S"
SO, which is it????
Since, in my world, 27 IS "larger" than 23.... or and 17% is a significant difference, anyone want to earn 17% LESS money?
The gap is so big in Europe atleast that it wont give android any problems expanding even further. Actually its the opposite for Apple. Apple is going to have more problems later if they dont sell bigger volumes than earlier. It is apple that is going to be such a niche soon that any services will work lastly on it (eg. web pages and services etc.). It all now hangs on the ipad. The iphone is a lost cause already (OK, maybe not in the states but elsewhere).
There are plenty of services only android now and its so cheap that they can throw in a phone on the side just for kicks. Bought a 7000 Euro geothermal pump. the UI app is only for android. Not even 2 Years later is there an iphone version. Well thats why they gave a 250 Euro android phone on the side for free.
Soon there wont be any users below adulthood using iphones... There almost now isnt anymore (here in the Europe). Well Apple is knowingly being samsungs best buddy making a whole industry for Samsung. Apple doesnt want to cater to the most, Samsung can have them.
Well its alright, I get it, they don't like to make devices only to the richest of us. It is Apples right to chose its customers and its the customers right to chose its vendor.
If i where apple i would try to keep the foothold better but as apple is only interested in getting its margins increasing with every iteration then this strategy will have the same consequences to the ipad as the iphone has suffered.You can accelerate only as much with gasfumes.
That was quite a screwy dream you had there. Did you eat some bad Braunschweiger or something?
Let me break this down for simple minds like mine. The 5C is selling way more than the 4S did at this point last year. The 5C is a Very Successful Product.
Did I call it? Yes.
Will analysts try to hide the success d the 5C? Yes.
Will the analysts fairly quickly be proved ridiculously wrong? Yes.
Plus the other shoe has yet to drop: China Mobile where, unlike the 5, the 5c IS compatible with their network. And that's, IMHO, why the 5"c" rather than the "old" 5...
Plus the design speaks to another aesthetic category to widen sales beyond simply price/tech.
Not likely true. If a company can only build a certain amount of a product that is in high demand, the amount of markets is irrelevant to how many it can sell. For example, last year Apple sold 5 million in its opening weekend. This was not because it could not sell more, it was because that was all the inventory it had available. If it had another 4 million available last year in its opening weekend, it might have still sold them, without or without China.
The amount of markets Apple makes available is likely determined by the inventory it has to sell. Does anyone believe if Apple took away China away, Apple still would not have sold 9 million? It added China because thanks to the 5C, it had more inventory on hand at launch.
To be honest, I personally agree with you, but I didn't want to over-egg the pudding
This is the case because Apple's pricing is wrong. Based on industry standard ratios between cost to manufacture and retail price, the 5c is overpriced. And it feels that way doesn't it? Be honest the 5s feels like worth more than a 5c $100. It's a clearly superior product. The 5c should have been priced around $450 off contract and $99 on contract, with the 5s for $650 off contract and $299 on contract.
I dont there is a way for Apple to win on that stats. People will find something negative to say on any sales figure. The 5c numbers will start to rise in the 2nd half of the cycle, especially if Apple reduce the price by $50 to $100 after 6 months.
This is the case because Apple's pricing is wrong. Based on industry standard ratios between cost to manufacture and retail price, the 5c is overpriced. And it feels that way doesn't it? Be honest the 5s feels like worth more than a 5c $100. It's a clearly superior product. The 5c should have been priced around $450 off contract and $99 on contract, with the 5s for $650 off contract and $299 on contract.
When you make a phone, you can price it any way you want. But that's the thing, the 5S is superior to the 5c. So if money isn't an object, peeps would splurge with extra $100 to get it. However, many people do consider price as an issue so they'll settle for the 5C.
This report says the 5s is outselling the 5c by two to one. Since they've figured the selling ratio they must know the total number of units sold so far, then exactly how many 5s units have been sold to date?
Comments
Nice spin: numbers go up = big disappointment
How big should the numbers be for you call it a success?
Considering all (or nearly all) of Apple's advertising efforts on the 2 new iPhone models have gone to the 5c with promotional support from print ads, POP displays, in-store-promotions, street posters and television ads I would think you might expect a bigger bump wouldn't you?
Wrong - it means Apple has failed in its expectations to have the "budget" 5C as its biggest-selling phone; instead, it's gonna be sitting in inventories all over the world because no one could give a crap about it.
And some of the geniuses around here were still asking me for "facts" about my negative statements concerning the 5C - early price cuts, less than 1/3 of sales even though the flagship model is way more expensive...this means weak demand and nothing else.
In fact, this reminds of Apple's dark years when it completely miscalculated demand for the PowerBook, not being able to fulfil orders as it should have...and Cook, the world's former "best COO", does it again...pathetic.
You are getting beyond obnoxious now. Just yesterday you said the 5C was a failure because it didn't sell any.
You were, obviously, proven wrong with the facts:
-all carriers have said the 5C is the 2nd best selling phone (2nd only to the 5S)
-This report of ~3 million iPhone 5Cs were sold the first weekend- which is more than any Samsung (or any phone) has ever sold their first weekend.
So now you are changing your tune- from yesterday- from "The 5C was a failure because it didn't sell any" to "Apple failed because the 5C was supposed to be the best selling iPhone". Which is even dumber than your previous dumb comment. Who releases two products- one (5S) that is substantially improved and uses a year's newer technology- at a premium of only 15% more than the 2nd tier version (5C)- and expects the 2nd tier to sell better?
Your comments are asinine. I assume you are an Apple fan (based on your signature)- and you disagree with the 5C. And no matter what the facts say- you just can't be disproven. Tallest Skil thought the iPad mini was a ridiculously dumb idea, but now knows it was a great move on Apple's part because the sales and numbers prove it. I said I thought the iPad mini was priced wrong- it should have been $299- and that I wouldn't own one. I also said the iPod Touch 5th gen was $50 too much and that I'd never own one. I own both. And I was wrong in both instances. When the facts are shooting you between the eyes- let me tell you- it's ok to be wrong. The 5C is not a failure- and, if you haven't held one in your hand (like I hadn't when I made the comment about the 5th gen iPod Touch)- then you really shouldn't comment on it. It is a remarkably great build quality.
Apple sold the 4 and the 4s alongside each other in 2011.
And the 3G and 3GS alongside each other in 2009.
Citation needed...
You’d better be joking.
5C - $0
6C - $99 (Plastic case, touch ID, A7)
6 - $199
6L - $249
Nope. 6C will have an A8 and be launched in 2015. You’ve taken the 5SC and named it 6C, which it won’t be, because it’s in no way an iPhone 6.
5 - A6
5C - A6
5S - A7
6 - A8
6C - A8
6S - A9
Next year’s the 5C at $0, 5SC at $99, and 6 at $199. Year after is 5SC at $0, 6C at $99, and 6S at $199. Then the 6C at $0, 6SC at $99, and 7 at $199.
And this nonsense wouldn’t be happening if they’d just listened to me. Now we have the late ‘90s all over again. Thanks Performa 5210CD, PowerMac 5200/75 LC, Quadra 660AV, and LC 580.
From those four names, without looking up specs, can YOU tell which one is the best?
Tallest Skil thought the iPad mini was a ridiculously dumb idea, but now knows it was a great move on Apple's part because the sales and numbers prove it.
Ap, bap bap, nope. I maintain it could be dumb. It sends the wrong message for what the future of devices will be, unless they go with a four tablet lineup.
I totally agree with you about him, though.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" /> 5C was a “budget” phone in the hearts and minds of analysts ONLY, and at no time was it ever stated by anyone with any actual clout that it is anything but a 5-at-midrange replacement.
It's been on sale for three weeks. How many contracts were up?
The buyers of the 5C aren't the same as for the 5S.
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Next year’s the 5C at $0, 5SC at $99, and 6 at $199. Year after is 5SC at $0, 6C at $99, and 6S at $199. Then the 6C at $0, 6SC at $99, and 7 at $199.
I think you're right. I also think next year they implement a bigger sized screen option too. Hoping they keep a 4" 6, but also give us a larger (4.3 or 4.8) option additionally. That would only expand the market- and I, personally, would love the larger screen. Who cares about everyone else.
More display space. Hmmmm... good point. Last year and the year before and the year before etc... all I saw was the latest iPhone being advertised. This year I don't see any adverts at all for the 5s but I sure see a lot of brightly colored posters for the 5c.
True, but if you go in the stores, you will see both models on display. The 4S is still being offered, but it is not on display (at least at the stores I have been in).
Wrong - it means Apple has failed in its expectations to have the "budget" 5C as its biggest-selling phone; instead, it's gonna be sitting in inventories all over the world because no one could give a crap about it.
And some of the geniuses around here were still asking me for "facts" about my negative statements concerning the 5C - early price cuts, less than 1/3 of sales even though the flagship model is way more expensive...this means weak demand and nothing else.
In fact, this reminds of Apple's dark years when it completely miscalculated demand for the PowerBook, not being able to fulfil orders as it should have...and Cook, the world's former "best COO", does it again...pathetic.
The moment I read the headline, I immediately thought "I wonder how brlaywer is going to spin this to save face".
Needless to say, you spun it so fast to do damage control, you come across even more of a troll than had you just kept quiet and scurried to the back corner of the room. You didn't disappoint.
However, it is fun to watch everyone calling you on it. Frankly, you had it coming and deserved it troll.
Not sure why you are asking me. I was asking you that question. I would like you to quantify what you think "not disappointing" means.
I'm going to tell you why I think the number is fine, but I expect quid pro quo from you. Simply put, the 5c is not an upgrade path for iPhone 5 users. It's virtually the same phone, and makes no sense at any price. It makes sense for someone using an iPhone 4 or 4S, and there are two kinds of iPhone 4/4S buyers: those who got their phone when it was new at $199+ (latest and greatest), and those who got it when it was last year's model selling for $99 (budget conscious). Based on last year's percentages, around 1 in 4 iPhone buyers is budget conscious. No amount of advertising will change you from one category to the other. If you got your iPhone 4/4S because it was the latest and greatest, you're not going to settle for the 5c. If $199 was too much for an iPhone 4/4S, it's still too much for the 5s. So the ratio isn't going to drastically change.
If you got your iPhone 4/4S because it was the latest and greatest, you're not going to settle for the 5c. If $199 was too much for an iPhone 4/4S, it's still too much for the 5s. So the ratio isn't going to drastically change.
I had to talk my co-worker into getting the 5C because he was just going to get the 4S because it was free. Even with the $50 GC best buy was doing- it was an act of congress for him to pony up $50 freakin' dollars. Some people are just flat out cheap or don't care.
Newton is dead on- if you're a "latest greatest" guy (see- get new iPhone the first month it comes out)- then you're getting the 5s. We haven't even begun to see the true sales of the 5C- and they are strong already!
"The new data also suggests that the iPhone 5c is not carving out a larger share of overall iPhone sales than the iPhone 4S managed last year, when it was the company's $100-on-contract handset.
With the iPhone 5c taking 27 percent this year, it's just slightly ahead of the 23 percent share the iPhone 4S captured during the same period in 2012, just after the launch of the iPhone 5."
"not carving out a larger share"
OR
"the iPhone 5c taking 27 percent this year, it's just slightly ahead of the 23 percent share the iPhone 4S"
SO, which is it????
Since, in my world, 27 IS "larger" than 23.... or and 17% is a significant difference, anyone want to earn 17% LESS money?
The gap is so big in Europe atleast that it wont give android any problems expanding even further. Actually its the opposite for Apple. Apple is going to have more problems later if they dont sell bigger volumes than earlier. It is apple that is going to be such a niche soon that any services will work lastly on it (eg. web pages and services etc.). It all now hangs on the ipad. The iphone is a lost cause already (OK, maybe not in the states but elsewhere).
There are plenty of services only android now and its so cheap that they can throw in a phone on the side just for kicks. Bought a 7000 Euro geothermal pump. the UI app is only for android. Not even 2 Years later is there an iphone version. Well thats why they gave a 250 Euro android phone on the side for free.
Soon there wont be any users below adulthood using iphones... There almost now isnt anymore (here in the Europe). Well Apple is knowingly being samsungs best buddy making a whole industry for Samsung. Apple doesnt want to cater to the most, Samsung can have them.
Well its alright, I get it, they don't like to make devices only to the richest of us. It is Apples right to chose its customers and its the customers right to chose its vendor.
If i where apple i would try to keep the foothold better but as apple is only interested in getting its margins increasing with every iteration then this strategy will have the same consequences to the ipad as the iphone has suffered.You can accelerate only as much with gasfumes.
Let me break this down for simple minds like mine. The 5C is selling way more than the 4S did at this point last year. The 5C is a Very Successful Product.
Did I call it? Yes.
Will analysts try to hide the success d the 5C? Yes.
Will the analysts fairly quickly be proved ridiculously wrong? Yes.
Plus the other shoe has yet to drop: China Mobile where, unlike the 5, the 5c IS compatible with their network. And that's, IMHO, why the 5"c" rather than the "old" 5...
Plus the design speaks to another aesthetic category to widen sales beyond simply price/tech.
Not likely true. If a company can only build a certain amount of a product that is in high demand, the amount of markets is irrelevant to how many it can sell. For example, last year Apple sold 5 million in its opening weekend. This was not because it could not sell more, it was because that was all the inventory it had available. If it had another 4 million available last year in its opening weekend, it might have still sold them, without or without China.
The amount of markets Apple makes available is likely determined by the inventory it has to sell. Does anyone believe if Apple took away China away, Apple still would not have sold 9 million? It added China because thanks to the 5C, it had more inventory on hand at launch.
To be honest, I personally agree with you, but I didn't want to over-egg the pudding
The 5 looks like the 5s and people will go for it instead of the 5s.
Just as people people go for the 4 and 4s instead of the 5 because they look the same design wise.
Now there is a differentiation. Aluminum vs plastic.
To be honest, I personally agree with you, but I didn't want to over-egg the pudding
LOL. . Yes, too many eggs in the pudding is bad.
I dont there is a way for Apple to win on that stats. People will find something negative to say on any sales figure. The 5c numbers will start to rise in the 2nd half of the cycle, especially if Apple reduce the price by $50 to $100 after 6 months.
When you make a phone, you can price it any way you want. But that's the thing, the 5S is superior to the 5c. So if money isn't an object, peeps would splurge with extra $100 to get it. However, many people do consider price as an issue so they'll settle for the 5C.