Not to put too fine a point on it...although The U.S. corporate tax rate is 35% (39.2% when states rates are included) the average tax paid by major corporations is 12.6% (2010-GAO)
For example, Verizon paid zero tax, Carnival Cruise Line paid zero tax and GE got 3 billion dollar rebate.
The problem isn't the tax rate, it's the convoluted tax code. With loopholes written by members of congress to help their "friends!" There are no Republicans and Democrats anymore. They are just concierges for major corporations.
Sorry, I was getting data from here: http://www.kpmg.com/Global/en/services/Tax/tax-tools-and-resources/Pages/corporate-tax-rates-table.aspx
Yes, as my first post stated, it is stupid and blind to call out others instead of fixing our own tax system. Personally, I favor a flat national sales tax + 10% corporate tax (until debt is paid) with no other federal taxes. But that will never happen as that takes power (IRS) away from the federal government to punish and reward.
I love that analogy. Stealing it!
I agree, Richard.
I like this too "flat national sales tax + 10% corporate tax (until debt is paid)"
In some ways, both the Republicans and Democrats have won!
Republicans have the lowest tax rates in 50 years and the Democrats have a huge government and lots of services...
...the result is the "debt!"
Okay, so every giant company that does this will move to the next best tax country. Bye Ireland.
For #2, you are not correct. Apple's Ireland subsidiary owns patents and other US investments, so thus, US revenues are send to Ireland and avoids US taxes.
Apple justifies this because Ireland's subsidiary invests in US R&D, so basically, some of the revenues that the Ireland subsidiary gets from international sales are being repatriated to US in the form of investment into Apple's US R&D.
AppleInsider wrote: »
"I will be bringing forward a change to ensure that Irish registered companies cannot be 'stateless' in terms of their place of tax residency," Noonan said. "Ireland wants to be part of the solution to this global tax challenge, not part of the problem."
Not necessarily. Apple will still need an operational base inside the EU. People who are suggesting the Cayman islands, Bahamas, and such like, don't understand the basics. Ireland's attractiveness was as base of operations within the EU that had a low corporate tax rate. if they were outside the EU they wouldn't have use of the basic loopholes they were exploiting, which were free trade within the EU and only being obliged to pay tax in the EU member state in which they were based.
No matter how much is stolen, how many people are put in poverty by their policies the left always cries out for more and more.
What a bunch of greedy heartless jerks.
Also, it's not a loophole when a government decides to not steal as much as other governments do.
Taxes are theft. Those who want more taxes are evil.
More taxes = More poverty.
Interesting assertion. Care to elaborate?
Closing the loophole is not about US taxes. It's about paying taxes in the EU for profits made in the EU.
You really don't get it.
Right now those giant companies are paying nothing.
And even after closing the loophole Ireland is still the best tax country in the EU.
So where is the risc for Ireland?
Originally Posted by Jessi
There's far more poverty is the US than there is in high tax countries such as Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands.
darryn lowe wrote: »
Typical America, bullying the little guy to benefit them.
Still, without Ireland America wouldn't be where it is today would it? ;-)
He is right on all 3 points, and Apple stressed all of these points very deliberately during the congressional dog & pony show. Tim Cook also got the sound bite in that Apple paid every dollar owed in the US. Also a true statement.
If you look at them:
1. apple does not employ shifting funds through the Cayman Islands or Caribbean islands
True statement. Apple does not need to use the Cayman Islands or Caribbean because they 'innovated' a new means. They created an Irish subsidiary that has *no tax residency anywhere* F'n brilliant!!!!! They don't need the Cayman or Caribbean islands, they are storing their money in 0 tax rate limbo!!! The 'no Cayman island' was a terrific soundbite and the Apple fans are relieved that "their" company is better than the rest by not using Cayman islands. Because offshoring is okay as long as you don't use the Cayman islands, am I right? This is actually the 'loophole' Ireland is looking to close. They are *not* (yet) closing the real loophole, but at least they are insisting corporate money has to go 'somewhere' Apple may very well soon start sending their offshored cash to the Caymans (no, they'll use somewhere else just to avoid the headlines I'm sure).
Note that I do not fault or criticize Apple for this. They are legally minimizing their US taxes. They are doing it a little differently than most other corporations and their talking points were frankly brilliant.
2. Apple does not shift revenues paid in the usa to Ireland
True statement. Yes ProApple we know you are right and Apple really develops most of its IP in the US. However claiming that and shifting revenues to Ireland would be *illegal*- so they don't do that. So instead they claim all of the IP is developed in Ireland. There is no 'shifting.' All their ideas actually come from Ireland. No, really. They even employ quite a few people in Ireland. Good luck trying to 'prove' where things are thought up. Since they claim all their geniuses are in Ireland, that's where they are developing their IP, and thats where they choose to be taxed.
3. Is a true statement for all off-shored money... Let there never be a 'tax holiday' to reward these corporations for their crafty tax avoidance. I think a capital reinvestment discount would be a real possibility because all that money coming back to the US and actually being put to use would be good. Coming back to pay dividends and exec bonuses would be horrible, but sure would be one hell of a 'holiday' for them. I could live with that because had they made the capital investments in the first place, the money would not have been taxed.
Apple legally employed means to minimize its US tax bill, and after employing those means Tim's statement that they paid every cent they owed in the US is also a true one.
So instead of fixing the horrible tax code in the U.S., let's beg other countries to change their policies? How stupid and blind!
Why assume the influence originated here? They have taken flack in Europe, as have other countries (starbucks and google come to mind). A year or so ago the complaint was that they avoided VAT by conducting itunes sales through Luxemburg. Obviously consumers pay VAT directly, but it did provide a more competitive edge on pricing. I'm not looking to argue whether that was good or bad, just that it's unlikely that the pressure was unilateral here.
No matter how many people up-rate your post, you'll never come with a remotely cogent statement as to why it made sense for any company to be capable of declaring themselves a non-resident. You should have just started with the laws surrounding taxed residents, both in terms of people and pieces of paper which endow ownership of the aforementioned companies. Right now you are only arguing in favor of preferential treatment.
Ah I'm not sure how I overlooked that. I usually read articles in their entirety. This subject is just all over the place right now (although I don't. I thought the pressure would have come from European countries, given concerns over tax status that have come up over the past couple years for more than just Apple.
Exactly my point. Why pressure from the U.S., we should fix our own tax code first. The pressure should be coming from the citizens of Ireland asking why Apple gets to squat without paying taxes. I'm not suggesting the 35-40% hit you have in the U.S. but why not 10%?
But again, if the politicians fixed the tax code here, this would be a non issue.
If Ireland cedes to US demands, then Apple can join Amazon in Luxembourg and take their money with them, then there are other countries like Liechtenstein, the Channel Islands and others who would be glad to rake off a slight percentage of tens of billions for doing nothing but provide an office with a letter box.
This will get nowhere, Irish politicians like politicians everywhere will look after number one when it comes to the crunch.
They'll say one thing in a long winded way then let it go nowhere until it slowly fades away.
1. Apple does funnel money through Caribbean tax havens (via Braeburn Capital).
2. Not true, "Apple has set up a cost-sharing agreement with its Irish subsidiaries that gives them a disproportionate share of the profit from research and development that occurs in the United States."