Cherry picked benchmarks. Heavy spin. Pretending a plasticized year old phone is still a flagship. Being an Apple Apologist must be tiring. There's a lot to apologize for lately.
hey look it's scott.
trolling on Cnet mustn't have been enough for you huh?
It isn't mysterious at all. The 5c is last years iPhone 5 in a new cheaper to make case. I do like the 5c but for the price difference the 5s is the better buy imo.
I believe Apple is doing precisely what they set out to do. Mainly, to have the 5c take some sales away from other Android phones, but not be attractive enough to cannibalise their own 5s phones. Most people who see the $100 as "not that much of a reduction" are being upsold to the 5s which I believe is exactly what Apple set out to do. I suspect if the 5c was more than $100 cheaper than the 5s (or came in an elegant black colour), you would see a lot more 5c phones sold and less 5s phones sold which would lower the average price per unit of their 'iPhones'. If the 5c was a HUGE success and the 5s flopped, analysts would still be screaming about Apple's margins and decreasing profits due to selling more of a cheaper phone.
As to colour: Apple again designed this precisely to appeal to iPhone users' children and not they themselves. For themselves, they would not be caught dead with a pink or blue phone, but would buy the more sophisticated-looking 5s.
As to material (plastic): Because of the lower material and manufacturing cost, in addition to appealing to a younger audience, Apple can afford to lower the cost of the phone in the future (or for emerging markets if needed). It is something they calibrate with time. The discounts we saw are precisely that. Apple has the luxury to lower the cost and maintain healthy margins because it is a smaller slice of the overall 'iPhone' pie that they sell.
If you're thinking the Xbox doesn't belong in Microsoft's list of commercial failures, keep in mind that it consumed over $8 billion in capital subsidizing its sales before selling near break-even, and it cost the company another $1.2 billion in unanticipated warranty costs related to its 54.2% hardware failure rate. The Surface has actually been a much less expensive experiment.
I sometimes wonder whether DED is an elaborate parody account. Under a section entitled 'Looking for facts to support a belief' he trots out a 54.2% hardware failure rate for the Xbox 360. This number is not based on official figures or any kind of academic research; it's based on a single poll of Xbox 360 users on an internet forum. It's such a dodgy source that DED no longer even links to it.
The iPhone 5C allows much higher 5S production due to not sharing the aluminium casing, which is the slowest point of production. Which allows the 5S, highest margin iPhone to sell much more then it usually launch.
The 5C also has higher margin then if Apple put 5 in the middle. So now which ever model consumers buys, 5C or 5S, Apple is marking roughly the same margin on both.
To put it this way, Those who decided to buy an iPhone, will either dislike the 5C and buy a slightly more expensive 5S. or be price sensitive and bought an 5C. From Financial point of view it makes no difference. Apple is making the same margin on both. And Apple is selling way more iPhones then they did same time last year.
This article was a lot of hot air. Why did the author feel the need to compare the 5C to the surface? Completely different devices.
There's no information to prove the 5C is a commercial success. I wouldn't necessarily call it a failure but the cut in orders for the device speaks volumes about its "success". Sales of 5C are obviously below Apple's expectations.
We don't know if that's true.
Honestly it looks like the opposite to me. Since Apple produced a ton of 5Cs and has advertised the device exclusively, it looks to me they intented for the device to sell at a high rate.
We don't know which phone they anticipated to sell more of but from the looks of Apple's actions I can guess they thought the 5C would take off and become the "every man's" iPhone.
At this point that's not happening.
I agree that the 5Cs current sales performance is probably disappointing to Apple.
It seems like a decent device but it will forever be seen as overpriced. Apple probably won't make a move with the price, but I think that's the number 1 detractor for the device.
What sales performance are you referring to? Do you have Apple sales figures no one else has? And when did Apple say they were cutting production orders for the 5C. I missed that announcement.
Really not a mystery at all. If i saw it coming, why didn't Apple. Because they are losing touch with their customers. Their marketing team is losing their edge. Apple is known for good build quality, not perfect but overall solid. If you could afford an iPhone, why would you want a "cheap" looking plastic version. The colors are too "easter egg". If they really wanted to shake the table, they should have put out the bright colorful metallic versions similar to nano. The 5s is marketed toward China. The fast growing Chinese middle class and upper class will want the more expensive models to show off their wealth. And gold and red is the favorite color. The price point for a 5c is still unaffordable for most in China. There is the ultra rich and the ultra poor, and a growing middle class in China that's it. Apple feels they have the US/Western market locked in.
I'm not sure where 'failure' is applied to Apple when it isn't Apple who has reduced prices. All the discounts, as far as I can tell, are being given by retailers, and usually with a deal of some sort that benefits their businesses.
It's always a amazing that there seems to be a standard for Apple to adhere to, yet there is a different standard for other companies: I'm not sure if anyone using the word 'failure' has yet defined this in concrete or objective terminology.
How about a product fails if: Products stay in inventory and are not moved within two months Products' prices are removed to shift inventory Product provides no revenue/makes a loss
Some of the larger players in the market are experiencing this, such as the Surface, and perhaps in some countries, some of the phablet makers, but an Apple mobile device....?
I believe Apple is doing precisely what they set out to do. Mainly, to have the 5c take some sales away from other Android phones, but not be attractive enough to cannibalise their own 5s phones. Most people who see the $100 as "not that much of a reduction" are being upsold to the 5s which I believe is exactly what Apple set out to do. I suspect if the 5c was more than $100 cheaper than the 5s (or came in an elegant black colour), you would see a lot more 5c phones sold and less 5s phones sold which would lower the average price per unit of their 'iPhones'. If the 5c was a HUGE success and the 5s flopped, analysts would still be screaming about Apple's margins and decreasing profits due to selling more of a cheaper phone.
As to colour: Apple again designed this precisely to appeal to iPhone users' children and not they themselves. For themselves, they would not be caught dead with a pink or blue phone, but would buy the more sophisticated-looking 5s.
As to material (plastic): Because of the lower material and manufacturing cost, in addition to appealing to a younger audience, Apple can afford to lower the cost of the phone in the future (or for emerging markets if needed). It is something they calibrate with time. The discounts we saw are precisely that. Apple has the luxury to lower the cost and maintain healthy margins because it is a smaller slice of the overall 'iPhone' pie that they sell.
Brilliant strategy.
You are simply making things up.
Brilliant strategy?
Why would Apple not want the 5C to sell well? They've poured hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising into the 5C and they've produced millions of units that they probably expected to sell.
Your statements can't be validated because of those two massive facts.
Apple's margins on the 5C and 5S seem to be the same percentage-wise so the motion that the 5C's sole job is to sell more 5Ss seems to be a pretty big stretch to me.
Also looking at the "Hello" ad it seems as if Apple wanted the 5C to have a wide appeal to everyone. In the ad people from all different walks of life had 5Cs making the 5C to represent the iPhone for everyone.
The 5C's current sales are a disappointment and it hasn't reached the desired appeal Apple wanted.
This wouldn't have been an issue if it were offered cheaper ($450 8GB model), but at this point it looks like Apple is simply going to cut production and learn from this mistake.
I'm not sure where 'failure' is applied to Apple when it isn't Apple who has reduced prices. All the discounts, as far as I can tell, are being given by retailers, and usually with a deal of some sort that benefits their businesses.
It's always a amazing that there seems to be a standard for Apple to adhere to, yet there is a different standard for other companies: I'm not sure if anyone using the word 'failure' has yet defined this in concrete or objective terminology.
How about a product fails if:
Products stay in inventory and are not moved within two months
Products' prices are removed to shift inventory
Product provides no revenue/makes a loss
Some of the larger players in the market are experiencing this, such as the Surface, and perhaps in some countries, some of the phablet makers, but an Apple mobile device....?
Really not a mystery at all. If i saw it coming, why didn't Apple. Because they are losing touch with their customers. Their marketing team is losing their edge. Apple is known for good build quality, not perfect but overall solid. If you could afford an iPhone, why would you want a "cheap" looking plastic version. The colors are too "easter egg". If they really wanted to shake the table, they should have put out the bright colorful metallic versions similar to nano. The 5s is marketed toward China. The fast growing Chinese middle class and upper class will want the more expensive models to show off their wealth. And gold and red is the favorite color. The price point for a 5c is still unaffordable for most in China. There is the ultra rich and the ultra poor, and a growing middle class in China that's it. Apple feels they have the US/Western market locked in.
Have you actually held a 5C in your hand? Or are you just going off "looks"? Because I have and the phone feels amazing. In fact I know people who would prefer the 5S innards and touch id with a 5C build. Oh and Vogue.com just featured the 5C matching up the phones with recent runway fashions (clothes that are incredibly expensive). One can complain that the 5C colors are geared too much towards women but I don't think Apple just blindly threw darts at the wall to pick colors. In fact I just read an article the other day about someone from Pantone who was talking quite favorably about the 5C colors.
I've said it before and I'll say it again I think the 5C is all about product differentiation. This is Apple creating a new product line for iPhones. The flagship device is the more premium looking device with top of the line specs. The mid range device is cheaper and more colorful and more easy to produce by Apple. I think there are valid arguments that the 5C should be cheaper, especially off contract. Apple won't disclose 5C sales on their earnings call but I'm sure Tim will be asked about it and iPhone margins and ASPs should give us some color on how the device is doing. And honestly if Apple needs to drop the price that isn't the end of the world. And not a huge embarrassment because its not like they haven't done it before. They did it with the original iPhone. And have done it with Apple TV as well.
As far as the 5C should have been a metal phone ala iPods, what differentiation do you have then to the flagship model? If the 5C looked like an iPod touch I guarantee you it would cannibalize the flagship 5S in a much bigger way than Apple would want.
The 5c isn't competing with the 5s, because the latter is a far better deal. It's more powerful, it looks better, and it's distinctive. If you want a new iPhone, the 5s makes far better sense. Even if you want a colorful case, you can simply add one to the 5s.
If Apple wants the 5c to sell well, it won't be enough to lower the price with a two-year contract. These contracts costs so much--a couple of thousand dollars--that even cutting the 5c price down to zero won't make much difference in the total cost of ownership. Apple needs to reduce the price enough to sell direct to those who don't sign long contracts. That's an untapped market that mostly buys used iPhones (like me).
Do the numbers. The 5c costs $173 to build. Sell it unlocked for twice that, $350, and it'll do quite well. And many of those who but the 5c will, in a couple of years buy a 6s.
5c = improved 5 (albeit plastic case). Faster processor, better camera, iOS7. $100 less than 5s. What's the problem? They probably should have made a black one. Other than that, it's a state of the art iPhone for people with a "student" budget.
Why would Apple not want the 5C to sell well? They've poured hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising into the 5C and they've produced millions of units that they probably expected to sell.
Your statements can't be validated because of those two massive facts.
Apple's margins on the 5C and 5S seem to be the same percentage-wise so the motion that the 5C's sole job is to sell more 5Ss seems to be a pretty big stretch to me.
Also looking at the "Hello" ad it seems as if Apple wanted the 5C to have a wide appeal to everyone. In the ad people from all different walks of life had 5Cs making the 5C to represent the iPhone for everyone.
The 5C's current sales are a disappointment and it hasn't reached the desired appeal Apple wanted.
This wouldn't have been an issue if it were offered cheaper ($450 8GB model), but at this point it looks like Apple is simply going to cut production and learn from this mistake.
What is your source for 5C sales? And how do you know it's been a disappointment and hasn't the desired appeal Apple wanted (assuming you know what that is)? So far Verizon is the only carrier to report iPhone sales and they didn't break out sales by model. Since we have ZERO sales figures for the 5C specifically and ZERO information on how many 5C's Apple initially produced or is producing on a daily/weekly basis we have no way of saying whether its a disappointment or not. Tim Cook has said in the past we shouldn't pay much attention to supply chain chatter/rumors.
Really not a mystery at all. If i saw it coming, why didn't Apple. Because they are losing touch with their customers. Their marketing team is losing their edge. Apple is known for good build quality, not perfect but overall solid. If you could afford an iPhone, why would you want a "cheap" looking plastic version. The colors are too "easter egg". If they really wanted to shake the table, they should have put out the bright colorful metallic versions similar to nano. The 5s is marketed toward China. The fast growing Chinese middle class and upper class will want the more expensive models to show off their wealth. And gold and red is the favorite color. The price point for a 5c is still unaffordable for most in China. There is the ultra rich and the ultra poor, and a growing middle class in China that's it. Apple feels they have the US/Western market locked in.
What??
the way you put "cheap" in quotes makes me feel you missed the /s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacloo
another article with AppleInsider defending Apple. You guys should become their lawyers
This is an apple fan site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
You are simply making things up.
Brilliant strategy?
Why would Apple not want the 5C to sell well? They've poured hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising into the 5C and they've produced millions of units that they probably expected to sell.
Your statements can't be validated because of those two massive facts.
Apple's margins on the 5C and 5S seem to be the same percentage-wise so the motion that the 5C's sole job is to sell more 5Ss seems to be a pretty big stretch to me.
Also looking at the "Hello" ad it seems as if Apple wanted the 5C to have a wide appeal to everyone. In the ad people from all different walks of life had 5Cs making the 5C to represent the iPhone for everyone.
The 5C's current sales are a disappointment and it hasn't reached the desired appeal Apple wanted.
This wouldn't have been an issue if it were offered cheaper ($450 8GB model), but at this point it looks like Apple is simply going to cut production and learn from this mistake.
They just want their extra stuff to sell.
There is wayy more demand for 5s than 5c so advertising for that makes no sense.
also they don't sell 8GB models of anything except 4s.
and how do you know about 5c sales??
last I checked they beat gs4 in 2 of four major carriers in USA.
This wouldn't have been an issue if it were offered cheaper ($450 8GB model), but at this point it looks like Apple is simply going to cut production and learn from this mistake.
Were you complaining the 4s should be $450 last year with 8gb memory?
The 5C's current sales are a disappointment and it hasn't reached the desired appeal Apple wanted
Do you have The 5c current sales? Do you know Apples desire?
Sales of 5C are obviously below Apple's expectations.
We don't know if that's true.
Hey, you disproved your own point! Thanks. Saves time.
…has advertised the device exclusively…
Are you pretending they haven’t advertised the 5S? Are you honestly pretending that?
I agree that the 5Cs current sales performance is probably disappointing to Apple.
You need to agree that you don’t have the first effing clue what the device was supposed to be.
Originally Posted by Aizmov
Why didn't Apple use the A7 in the iPhone 5c? How much more expensive would it have been?
Because that’s not what the phone is supposed to be. Because it has nothing to do with price.
Because the 5C is last year’s phone and was never intended to get modern hardware.
Originally Posted by AppleJim
Really not a mystery at all. If i saw it coming, why didn't Apple.
Because you saw nothing coming. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
What’s more likely: some guy on some website is right regarding a product about whose internal plans he knows nothing or THE MOST SUCCESSFUL COMPANY IN MODERN HISTORY is right regarding a product they created from scratch and whose internal plans they know intimately?
…”cheap” looking…
Not only have you never held an iPhone 5C, I’m convinced you’re also legally blind.
The colors are too "easter egg".
Shush.
The 5s is marketed toward China.
Not… no.
The price point for a 5c is still unaffordable for most in China.
Explains why they’re buying all three models, huh.
Comments
Cherry picked benchmarks. Heavy spin. Pretending a plasticized year old phone is still a flagship. Being an Apple Apologist must be tiring. There's a lot to apologize for lately.
hey look it's scott.
trolling on Cnet mustn't have been enough for you huh?
account created:yesterday.
Exactly how much has samsung paid you for this*
*If you are who I think you are.
otherwise just ignore the post.
Most of the negative posters here also completely miss the point of DED's article. It's about anti-Apple "journalism," people.
As to colour: Apple again designed this precisely to appeal to iPhone users' children and not they themselves. For themselves, they would not be caught dead with a pink or blue phone, but would buy the more sophisticated-looking 5s.
As to material (plastic): Because of the lower material and manufacturing cost, in addition to appealing to a younger audience, Apple can afford to lower the cost of the phone in the future (or for emerging markets if needed). It is something they calibrate with time. The discounts we saw are precisely that. Apple has the luxury to lower the cost and maintain healthy margins because it is a smaller slice of the overall 'iPhone' pie that they sell.
Brilliant strategy.
I sometimes wonder whether DED is an elaborate parody account. Under a section entitled 'Looking for facts to support a belief' he trots out a 54.2% hardware failure rate for the Xbox 360. This number is not based on official figures or any kind of academic research; it's based on a single poll of Xbox 360 users on an internet forum. It's such a dodgy source that DED no longer even links to it.
The lack of self awareness is staggering.
The iPhone 5C allows much higher 5S production due to not sharing the aluminium casing, which is the slowest point of production. Which allows the 5S, highest margin iPhone to sell much more then it usually launch.
The 5C also has higher margin then if Apple put 5 in the middle. So now which ever model consumers buys, 5C or 5S, Apple is marking roughly the same margin on both.
To put it this way, Those who decided to buy an iPhone, will either dislike the 5C and buy a slightly more expensive 5S. or be price sensitive and bought an 5C. From Financial point of view it makes no difference. Apple is making the same margin on both. And Apple is selling way more iPhones then they did same time last year.
What sales performance are you referring to? Do you have Apple sales figures no one else has? And when did Apple say they were cutting production orders for the 5C. I missed that announcement.
It's always a amazing that there seems to be a standard for Apple to adhere to, yet there is a different standard for other companies: I'm not sure if anyone using the word 'failure' has yet defined this in concrete or objective terminology.
How about a product fails if:
Products stay in inventory and are not moved within two months
Products' prices are removed to shift inventory
Product provides no revenue/makes a loss
Some of the larger players in the market are experiencing this, such as the Surface, and perhaps in some countries, some of the phablet makers, but an Apple mobile device....?
In any case, I love the editorials!
You are simply making things up.
Brilliant strategy?
Why would Apple not want the 5C to sell well? They've poured hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising into the 5C and they've produced millions of units that they probably expected to sell.
Your statements can't be validated because of those two massive facts.
Apple's margins on the 5C and 5S seem to be the same percentage-wise so the motion that the 5C's sole job is to sell more 5Ss seems to be a pretty big stretch to me.
Also looking at the "Hello" ad it seems as if Apple wanted the 5C to have a wide appeal to everyone. In the ad people from all different walks of life had 5Cs making the 5C to represent the iPhone for everyone.
The 5C's current sales are a disappointment and it hasn't reached the desired appeal Apple wanted.
This wouldn't have been an issue if it were offered cheaper ($450 8GB model), but at this point it looks like Apple is simply going to cut production and learn from this mistake.
I'm not sure where 'failure' is applied to Apple when it isn't Apple who has reduced prices. All the discounts, as far as I can tell, are being given by retailers, and usually with a deal of some sort that benefits their businesses.
It's always a amazing that there seems to be a standard for Apple to adhere to, yet there is a different standard for other companies: I'm not sure if anyone using the word 'failure' has yet defined this in concrete or objective terminology.
How about a product fails if:
Products stay in inventory and are not moved within two months
Products' prices are removed to shift inventory
Product provides no revenue/makes a loss
Some of the larger players in the market are experiencing this, such as the Surface, and perhaps in some countries, some of the phablet makers, but an Apple mobile device....?
In any case, I love the editorials!
I've said it before and I'll say it again I think the 5C is all about product differentiation. This is Apple creating a new product line for iPhones. The flagship device is the more premium looking device with top of the line specs. The mid range device is cheaper and more colorful and more easy to produce by Apple. I think there are valid arguments that the 5C should be cheaper, especially off contract. Apple won't disclose 5C sales on their earnings call but I'm sure Tim will be asked about it and iPhone margins and ASPs should give us some color on how the device is doing. And honestly if Apple needs to drop the price that isn't the end of the world. And not a huge embarrassment because its not like they haven't done it before. They did it with the original iPhone. And have done it with Apple TV as well.
As far as the 5C should have been a metal phone ala iPods, what differentiation do you have then to the flagship model? If the 5C looked like an iPod touch I guarantee you it would cannibalize the flagship 5S in a much bigger way than Apple would want.
The 5c isn't competing with the 5s, because the latter is a far better deal. It's more powerful, it looks better, and it's distinctive. If you want a new iPhone, the 5s makes far better sense. Even if you want a colorful case, you can simply add one to the 5s.
If Apple wants the 5c to sell well, it won't be enough to lower the price with a two-year contract. These contracts costs so much--a couple of thousand dollars--that even cutting the 5c price down to zero won't make much difference in the total cost of ownership. Apple needs to reduce the price enough to sell direct to those who don't sign long contracts. That's an untapped market that mostly buys used iPhones (like me).
Do the numbers. The 5c costs $173 to build. Sell it unlocked for twice that, $350, and it'll do quite well. And many of those who but the 5c will, in a couple of years buy a 6s.
Finally, someone who gets it.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Really not a mystery at all. If i saw it coming, why didn't Apple. Because they are losing touch with their customers. Their marketing team is losing their edge. Apple is known for good build quality, not perfect but overall solid. If you could afford an iPhone, why would you want a "cheap" looking plastic version. The colors are too "easter egg". If they really wanted to shake the table, they should have put out the bright colorful metallic versions similar to nano. The 5s is marketed toward China. The fast growing Chinese middle class and upper class will want the more expensive models to show off their wealth. And gold and red is the favorite color. The price point for a 5c is still unaffordable for most in China. There is the ultra rich and the ultra poor, and a growing middle class in China that's it. Apple feels they have the US/Western market locked in.
What??
the way you put "cheap" in quotes makes me feel you missed the /s.
another article with AppleInsider defending Apple. You guys should become their lawyers
This is an apple fan site.
You are simply making things up.
Brilliant strategy?
Why would Apple not want the 5C to sell well? They've poured hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising into the 5C and they've produced millions of units that they probably expected to sell.
Your statements can't be validated because of those two massive facts.
Apple's margins on the 5C and 5S seem to be the same percentage-wise so the motion that the 5C's sole job is to sell more 5Ss seems to be a pretty big stretch to me.
Also looking at the "Hello" ad it seems as if Apple wanted the 5C to have a wide appeal to everyone. In the ad people from all different walks of life had 5Cs making the 5C to represent the iPhone for everyone.
The 5C's current sales are a disappointment and it hasn't reached the desired appeal Apple wanted.
This wouldn't have been an issue if it were offered cheaper ($450 8GB model), but at this point it looks like Apple is simply going to cut production and learn from this mistake.
They just want their extra stuff to sell.
There is wayy more demand for 5s than 5c so advertising for that makes no sense.
also they don't sell 8GB models of anything except 4s.
and how do you know about 5c sales??
last I checked they beat gs4 in 2 of four major carriers in USA.
Do you have The 5c current sales? Do you know Apples desire?
So what are you doing?
Haven’t you been for the past few weeks?
Hey, you disproved your own point! Thanks. Saves time.
Are you pretending they haven’t advertised the 5S? Are you honestly pretending that?
You need to agree that you don’t have the first effing clue what the device was supposed to be.
Because that’s not what the phone is supposed to be. Because it has nothing to do with price.
Because the 5C is last year’s phone and was never intended to get modern hardware.
Because you saw nothing coming. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
What’s more likely: some guy on some website is right regarding a product about whose internal plans he knows nothing or THE MOST SUCCESSFUL COMPANY IN MODERN HISTORY is right regarding a product they created from scratch and whose internal plans they know intimately?
Not only have you never held an iPhone 5C, I’m convinced you’re also legally blind.
Shush.
Not… no.
Explains why they’re buying all three models, huh.