This is what I find really bizarre. Until last week, no one said that Numbers was a competitor to Excel, or that Pages was suitable for 'heavyweight' document work.
Now, after the latest upgrades, all these people have appeared who were using Numbers for serious financial modelling and using Pages to crack out technical books and novels of 500+ pages. And now of course, they can't do that anymore.
Where have they been hiding all this time?
I always thought people who wanted Excel just used it, not Numbers. Yes, I guess all of a sudden Numbers was a strong competitor to Excel. I never thought it was. It had a long way to go. Long ways. To be honest though, I like it simple. This is the way it should be.
I'm sure Apple will add features back in as time passes on. I don't think people realize that I believe iWork was completely rewritten with a focus around iCloud. While they may share the same name, its not the same app as before. Its a completely different app.
Sounds a lot like the situation with Final Cut ProX: First release, much wailing and gnashing of teeth. I expect that Apple has torn everything down to the bare essentials so they can rebuild the software from the ground up. The question is, how long will it take them?
I don't have a problem with the rewrite (I don't tend to do a lot of complex stuff on Pages anyway), but as with FCPx and iMovie and Maps, the communication was poorly handled.
They really should work in their communication.
Has it been noted that iWork '09 apps aren't overwritten when you update to the new apps via MAS?
I usually wipe the Mac when I get a new one and install it the way I want to. Then I don't have all the 2,000 printer drivers, etc. I too have take a Mac out of the box with a bad installation. It happens.
As far as Mavericks goes...I've been using Mavericks since the first developer preview and while I agree the first DP was not good (hence DP), the rest have been pretty good. I never once have had any lockups. I currently use Mavericks on a 15" MBP, Mac Mini (mid-2011), 13" MBP (latest gen) and no lockups at all. There are bugs, but that's to be expected. There is no such thing as perfect software and developers can't test for every single scenario Mavericks is going to get put in, even if it seems like the most logical scenario.
I do the same, upgrading is always a worry. I like to do a fresh install then use migration assistant from a clone of the drive I made earlier. That way I get both a fresh install and a clone safety backup. I've done this since Carbon Copy Cloner first came out. I still have cloned drives going back to Panther sitting on a shelf. I use bare drives in a Voyager FW 800 dock these last few years before that it was a similar FW400 and before that SCSI!. Cool thing too is I can always boot into any of these drives (hardware permitting) and be back on that OS X version at the last moment before upgrade with all associated software and data from that day. It's proven useful on many an occasion.
This is what I find really bizarre. Until last week, no one said that Numbers was a competitor to Excel, or that Pages was suitable for 'heavyweight' document work.
Now, after the latest upgrades, all these people have appeared who were using Numbers for serious financial modelling and using Pages to crack out technical books and novels of 500+ pages. And now of course, they can't do that anymore.
Where have they been hiding all this time?
Agreed, hence my continual pleading for Apple to come out with real Pro versions of all iWork apps. Using iWork is fine but real heavy duty work it would be like using Garage Band rather than Logic.
I do the same, upgrading is always a worry. I like to do a fresh install then use migration assistant from a clone of the drive I made earlier. That way I get both a fresh install and a clone safety backup. I've done this since Carbon Copy Cloner first came out. I still have cloned drives going back to Panther sitting on a shelf. I use bare drives in a Voyager FW 800 dock these last few years before that it was a similar FW400 and before that SCSI!. Cool thing too is I can always boot into any of these drives (hardware permitting) and be back on that OS X version at the last moment before upgrade with all associated software and data from that day. It's proven useful on many an occasion.
I tried Migration Assistant with my new MBP from my 2010 MBP and it caused all sorts of issues. The root cause seems to stem from ACLs but I tried Command-R, then going into Password Recovery to repair that but it doesn't appear to do anything. I also had rampant ACL issues with my iMac after installing OS X Server and got the same issue with ACL issues and the Password Recovery option not doing the 2 minute (or so) repair. I'm choking it up to a Mavericks bug. I started from scratch with my MBP and will do the same with my iMac once I can back up my media.
I tried Migration Assistant with my new MBP from my 2010 MBP and it caused all sorts of issues. The root cause seems to stem from ACLs but I tried Command-R, then going into Password Recovery to repair that but it doesn't appear to do anything. I also had rampant ACL issues with my iMac after installing OS X Server and got the same issue with ACL issues and the Password Recovery option not doing the 2 minute (or so) repair. I'm choking it up to a Mavericks bug. I started from scratch with my MBP and will do the same with my iMac once I can back up my media.
Yep I've seen that too. I have had to start totally from scratch on several occasions which is a lot of fun with older applications and their licensing methods. Thankfully it is a breeze with Apps from the App Store. Migration Assistant works only if the source disk is in tip top condition. Again (I mentioned this earlier) Disk Warrior is always a good thing to run prior to doing any migration it has both a fail safe directory repair and good permissions repairing abilities. But, as i say, like you I have had situations where only starting fresh gave a perfect solution. Aren't computers fun
BTW when I get ACL issues I know I caused it. It is usually when i have had that drive run as a secondary drive rather than booting and then over ridden permissions to get stuff or put stuff on the drives. This never used to be an issue years ago but seems to cause untold issues these days. In theory fixing ACL issues should be easy in Terminal or using good utilities but they just seem to come back like an unwanted friend.
Much of the discussion threads is folks just griping that they don't like change. Not real issues. Particularly in the iLife and iWork ones.
I disagree on iWork. I have been a heavy user of Pages since iWork '08 and have found it far preferable to Word. It may not have all the functionality of Word, but it does have all the functionality I need. At least it did. I live in Page Layout mode which has been removed from v5 rendering the new version useless to me. This isn't about disliking change, this is about having functionality critical to my workflow removed. For now, at least, I will continue to use Pages 4.3. If Pages 6.0 does not restore the functionality I need, then I will simply migrate to InDesign. I have it, but I have long preferred the simplicity of Pages.
I live in Page Layout mode which has been removed from v5 rendering the new version useless to me.
What?
People running around like their heads are cut off when they’re too lazy to take the time to check if their heads are still there. Inexcusable and embarrassing.
I disagree on iWork. I have been a heavy user of Pages since iWork '08 and have found it far preferable to Word. It may not have all the functionality of Word, but it does have all the functionality I need. At least it did. I live in Page Layout mode which has been removed from v5 rendering the new version useless to me. This isn't about disliking change, this is about having functionality critical to my workflow removed. For now, at least, I will continue to use Pages 4.3. If Pages 6.0 does not restore the functionality I need, then I will simply migrate to InDesign. I have it, but I have long preferred the simplicity of Pages.
You are right of course. Hopefully Apple will bring back and add features fast as they did with the initial FCPX which is now the best NLR in existence not so much on day one. I have to think as I said earlier in this thread, phase one was getting across the board compatibility and collaboration running both major achievements. Now they can start the real work of bring them all up in specs.
People running around like their heads are cut off when they’re too lazy to take the time to check if their heads are still there. Inexcusable and embarrassing.
In fairness Layout Mode has been simplified. Look for facing page differentiation for example. If I missed where that is I owe you one
People running around like their heads are cut off when they’re too lazy to take the time to check if their heads are still there. Inexcusable and embarrassing.
Thanks. Or not. That's absolutely, positively, utterly, and completely not what I was talking about. Have you used Pages prior to this version? Do you remember Page Layout vs Word Processing mode? You know, the one that allows you to rearrange pages, delete pages, insert pages in the middle, and (most importantly) create linked text frames? You know, all that Page Layout functionality that isn't there anymore?
If I'm just being lazy, then please do tell me where all this functionality that I can no longer find has been moved to.
Thanks. Or not. That's absolutely, positively, utterly, and completely not what I was talking about. Have you used Pages prior to this version? Do you remember Page Layout vs Word Processing mode? You know, the one that allows you to rearrange pages, delete pages, insert pages in the middle, and (most importantly) create linked text frames? You know, all that Page Layout functionality that isn't there anymore?
If I'm just being lazy, then please do tell me where all this functionality that I can no longer find has been moved to.
I'm still digging around hoping these are all there but hidden ...
In fairness Layout Mode has been simplified. Look for facing page differentiation for example. If I missed where that is I owe you one
Indeed. I thought I'd better pull up some of the newsletter templates that come with the new Pages to see if they use some of the features that appear to be missing. It looks as though they are emulating some of the stuff that used to be available with linked text frames by flowing text around some frames external to the main text body. That's a hack that would certainly be useable in simplistic layouts, but I've created some fairly complicated newsletters and technical documents that would be difficult at best in this way.
I got a copy of Swift Publisher with a bundle a year or so ago. It may be time to give that a look finally
I'm still digging around hoping these are all there but hidden ...
My suspicion (as seems to be the conventional wisdom) is that Apple more-or-less ported over the iOS versions of iWork to OSX (after all, didn't Apple proclaim these were rewritten from the ground up?) and that's why a lot of functionality was removed from all of the apps. I sincerely hope that Apple begins adding back what's missing and enhanced beyond what we had before. Migrate what was once Bento into the suite, give Numbers some real power (more functions, pivot tables, larger worksheets) and iWork could be a real Office productivity replacement for a large percentage of us. The new collaboration features look like they could be great, but the apps themselves just need to be a bit less watered down.
In fairness Layout Mode has been simplified. Look for facing page differentiation for example. If I missed where that is I owe you one
wrong post! lol AI crashes after every edit I make and I answered my self instead of TS after such a crash! Please have this blog fixed AI or tell me how to stop it if it is my Safari 7.0 alone doing this!
People running around like their heads are cut off when they’re too lazy to take the time to check if their heads are still there. Inexcusable and embarrassing.
Just FYI: Open a Pages doc from iWork '9 that had auto flowing linked text boxes in the new version ... Word to the wise ... sometimes it's worth checking facts before being too adamant. Luckily we all have both versions so it's not the end of the world and I trust Apple will update iWork asap.
Just FYI: Open a Pages doc from iWork '9 that had auto flowing linked text boxes in the new version ... Word to the wise ... sometimes it's worth checking facts before being too adamant. Luckily we all have both versions so it's not the end of the world and I trust Apple will update iWork asap.
Yeah, for now iWork '09 works just fine. Eventually compatibility will break I presume. Maybe not: I'm amazed that iWeb still functions even though it's not been updated since what, Snow Leopard days?
Has it been noted that iWork '09 apps aren't overwritten when you update to the new apps via MAS?
I noticed this just this morning when I clicked the old Pages icon in the dock and found that it launched version 4.3. Then I launched Pages from the new icon in the applications folder and had both running side-by-side for comparison. Interesting.
Personally, I'm worried about Apple. My boss is, too. Just today I was asked to meet on Wednesday with a computer consultant, and was given a name. The guy works only with Windows machines.
In my Batman voice
WHO IS HE?!!?!
GIVE ME A NAME!!!
WHERE IS HE!?!?
We are waiting with bated breath.
I'm sorry… Honestly… I'm really not trying to attack you.
But what does this have to do with anything? I know many professionals and personal people who only use Mac… But that doesn't say or mean anything about Microsoft and their failures or successes.
Sometimes it's personal preference. Sometimes it's business. If this mystery guy is a business professional, I can see him only using Microsoft because that is the dominant force in many businesses.
Or he's old and he doesn't want to learn two different platforms.
But to say you're worried just because this guy only uses Microsoft… I mean… Really?
Does he have a name in the industry?
Is it Steve Ballmer? LOL
Really we don't know his name, we don't know what he does, but even if I did it wouldn't make a difference. All businesses and products have their hiccups. It's how they treat the customer in the end and how well they recover which I think Apple does exceedingly well.
I say to anyone who's worried...drop apple and go with the rest....
Most likely we will see you back here either way lol
It's true Steve Jobs is gone… And that's a sad thing.
But Apple still has a lot of clout. A lot of professionals that are very creative and talented, And a lot of money. All the factors in turn attracts many new people in the industry and new up and comers. They have a lot of talent on the rise and I think that they are still in a better position than any other company. So Steve Jobs or not, you know you got a look at the Playing field as it stands now and Adjust your criticisms and expectations accordingly.
I don't see this potential in other rival companies at the moment.
I still think without any doubt… That Apple is the best we have out there.
We have to stop comparing them to the Steve Jobs era. Steve Jobs is not with Apple… But then again he's not with any other company either. This is the best we got in my opinion
Comments
This is what I find really bizarre. Until last week, no one said that Numbers was a competitor to Excel, or that Pages was suitable for 'heavyweight' document work.
Now, after the latest upgrades, all these people have appeared who were using Numbers for serious financial modelling and using Pages to crack out technical books and novels of 500+ pages. And now of course, they can't do that anymore.
Where have they been hiding all this time?
I always thought people who wanted Excel just used it, not Numbers. Yes, I guess all of a sudden Numbers was a strong competitor to Excel. I never thought it was. It had a long way to go. Long ways. To be honest though, I like it simple. This is the way it should be.
I'm sure Apple will add features back in as time passes on. I don't think people realize that I believe iWork was completely rewritten with a focus around iCloud. While they may share the same name, its not the same app as before. Its a completely different app.
They really should work in their communication.
Has it been noted that iWork '09 apps aren't overwritten when you update to the new apps via MAS?
I do the same, upgrading is always a worry. I like to do a fresh install then use migration assistant from a clone of the drive I made earlier. That way I get both a fresh install and a clone safety backup. I've done this since Carbon Copy Cloner first came out. I still have cloned drives going back to Panther sitting on a shelf. I use bare drives in a Voyager FW 800 dock these last few years before that it was a similar FW400 and before that SCSI!. Cool thing too is I can always boot into any of these drives (hardware permitting) and be back on that OS X version at the last moment before upgrade with all associated software and data from that day. It's proven useful on many an occasion.
Agreed, hence my continual pleading for Apple to come out with real Pro versions of all iWork apps. Using iWork is fine but real heavy duty work it would be like using Garage Band rather than Logic.
I tried Migration Assistant with my new MBP from my 2010 MBP and it caused all sorts of issues. The root cause seems to stem from ACLs but I tried Command-R, then going into Password Recovery to repair that but it doesn't appear to do anything. I also had rampant ACL issues with my iMac after installing OS X Server and got the same issue with ACL issues and the Password Recovery option not doing the 2 minute (or so) repair. I'm choking it up to a Mavericks bug. I started from scratch with my MBP and will do the same with my iMac once I can back up my media.
Yep I've seen that too. I have had to start totally from scratch on several occasions which is a lot of fun with older applications and their licensing methods. Thankfully it is a breeze with Apps from the App Store. Migration Assistant works only if the source disk is in tip top condition. Again (I mentioned this earlier) Disk Warrior is always a good thing to run prior to doing any migration it has both a fail safe directory repair and good permissions repairing abilities. But, as i say, like you I have had situations where only starting fresh gave a perfect solution. Aren't computers fun
BTW when I get ACL issues I know I caused it. It is usually when i have had that drive run as a secondary drive rather than booting and then over ridden permissions to get stuff or put stuff on the drives. This never used to be an issue years ago but seems to cause untold issues these days. In theory fixing ACL issues should be easy in Terminal or using good utilities but they just seem to come back like an unwanted friend.
Much of the discussion threads is folks just griping that they don't like change. Not real issues. Particularly in the iLife and iWork ones.
I disagree on iWork. I have been a heavy user of Pages since iWork '08 and have found it far preferable to Word. It may not have all the functionality of Word, but it does have all the functionality I need. At least it did. I live in Page Layout mode which has been removed from v5 rendering the new version useless to me. This isn't about disliking change, this is about having functionality critical to my workflow removed. For now, at least, I will continue to use Pages 4.3. If Pages 6.0 does not restore the functionality I need, then I will simply migrate to InDesign. I have it, but I have long preferred the simplicity of Pages.
What?
People running around like their heads are cut off when they’re too lazy to take the time to check if their heads are still there. Inexcusable and embarrassing.
You are right of course. Hopefully Apple will bring back and add features fast as they did with the initial FCPX which is now the best NLR in existence not so much on day one. I have to think as I said earlier in this thread, phase one was getting across the board compatibility and collaboration running both major achievements. Now they can start the real work of bring them all up in specs.
In fairness Layout Mode has been simplified. Look for facing page differentiation for example. If I missed where that is I owe you one
People running around like their heads are cut off when they’re too lazy to take the time to check if their heads are still there. Inexcusable and embarrassing.
Thanks. Or not. That's absolutely, positively, utterly, and completely not what I was talking about. Have you used Pages prior to this version? Do you remember Page Layout vs Word Processing mode? You know, the one that allows you to rearrange pages, delete pages, insert pages in the middle, and (most importantly) create linked text frames? You know, all that Page Layout functionality that isn't there anymore?
If I'm just being lazy, then please do tell me where all this functionality that I can no longer find has been moved to.
I'm still digging around hoping these are all there but hidden ...
In fairness Layout Mode has been simplified. Look for facing page differentiation for example. If I missed where that is I owe you one
Indeed. I thought I'd better pull up some of the newsletter templates that come with the new Pages to see if they use some of the features that appear to be missing. It looks as though they are emulating some of the stuff that used to be available with linked text frames by flowing text around some frames external to the main text body. That's a hack that would certainly be useable in simplistic layouts, but I've created some fairly complicated newsletters and technical documents that would be difficult at best in this way.
I got a copy of Swift Publisher with a bundle a year or so ago. It may be time to give that a look finally
I'm still digging around hoping these are all there but hidden ...
My suspicion (as seems to be the conventional wisdom) is that Apple more-or-less ported over the iOS versions of iWork to OSX (after all, didn't Apple proclaim these were rewritten from the ground up?) and that's why a lot of functionality was removed from all of the apps. I sincerely hope that Apple begins adding back what's missing and enhanced beyond what we had before. Migrate what was once Bento into the suite, give Numbers some real power (more functions, pivot tables, larger worksheets) and iWork could be a real Office productivity replacement for a large percentage of us. The new collaboration features look like they could be great, but the apps themselves just need to be a bit less watered down.
wrong post! lol AI crashes after every edit I make and I answered my self instead of TS after such a crash! Please have this blog fixed AI or tell me how to stop it if it is my Safari 7.0 alone doing this!
Wow! My hats off to you if you read through all that. Good to know, though, as I have my sights set on a new 15" model.
Just FYI: Open a Pages doc from iWork '9 that had auto flowing linked text boxes in the new version ... Word to the wise ... sometimes it's worth checking facts before being too adamant. Luckily we all have both versions so it's not the end of the world and I trust Apple will update iWork asap.
Just FYI: Open a Pages doc from iWork '9 that had auto flowing linked text boxes in the new version ... Word to the wise ... sometimes it's worth checking facts before being too adamant. Luckily we all have both versions so it's not the end of the world and I trust Apple will update iWork asap.
Yeah, for now iWork '09 works just fine. Eventually compatibility will break I presume. Maybe not: I'm amazed that iWeb still functions even though it's not been updated since what, Snow Leopard days?
Has it been noted that iWork '09 apps aren't overwritten when you update to the new apps via MAS?
I noticed this just this morning when I clicked the old Pages icon in the dock and found that it launched version 4.3. Then I launched Pages from the new icon in the applications folder and had both running side-by-side for comparison. Interesting.
In my Batman voice
WHO IS HE?!!?!
GIVE ME A NAME!!!
WHERE IS HE!?!?
We are waiting with bated breath.
I'm sorry… Honestly… I'm really not trying to attack you.
But what does this have to do with anything? I know many professionals and personal people who only use Mac… But that doesn't say or mean anything about Microsoft and their failures or successes.
Sometimes it's personal preference. Sometimes it's business. If this mystery guy is a business professional, I can see him only using Microsoft because that is the dominant force in many businesses.
Or he's old and he doesn't want to learn two different platforms.
But to say you're worried just because this guy only uses Microsoft… I mean… Really?
Does he have a name in the industry?
Is it Steve Ballmer? LOL
Really we don't know his name, we don't know what he does, but even if I did it wouldn't make a difference. All businesses and products have their hiccups. It's how they treat the customer in the end and how well they recover which I think Apple does exceedingly well.
I say to anyone who's worried...drop apple and go with the rest....
Most likely we will see you back here either way lol
It's true Steve Jobs is gone… And that's a sad thing.
But Apple still has a lot of clout. A lot of professionals that are very creative and talented, And a lot of money. All the factors in turn attracts many new people in the industry and new up and comers. They have a lot of talent on the rise and I think that they are still in a better position than any other company. So Steve Jobs or not, you know you got a look at the Playing field as it stands now and Adjust your criticisms and expectations accordingly.
I don't see this potential in other rival companies at the moment.
I still think without any doubt… That Apple is the best we have out there.
We have to stop comparing them to the Steve Jobs era. Steve Jobs is not with Apple… But then again he's not with any other company either. This is the best we got in my opinion