RTF/RTFD is the foundation format text document type and custom directory extension since the days of NeXTSTEP 1.0. RTF/RTFD have been built into TextEdit.app since it was a demo app with OpenStep.
Send a request to Mike Ferris and the dev team to address the boundaries you are referencing.
Hi mdriftmeyer, I think you're misunderstanding me. I meant that many people wouldn't want to turn to TextEdit every time they need rtf because it's just a text editor not a word processor.
All that ranting and raving, when you could have simply to used iWork09, as the new apps DO NOT REPLACE THE OLD ONES. I repeat: ALL IWORK 2009 APPS ARE STILL ON YOUR MAC. Jesus Christ, some of you people are unbelievable, attempting to ignore some basic facts and twist reality so you can use the "apple fucked up and ruined my life" narrative. And no, the document didn't "automatically save". That does not happen. You explicitly saved it, and explicitly chose to replace the old one, instead of making a copy, or a million other things that would have exercised some caution. Even if that did happen, you could have (and still can) use time machine to get the older version back. But yeah, keep making shit up, and ignoring obvious and plentiful solutions, in order to sensationalize the situation.
Do you really think those not smart enough to work on a copy of their document when using a new app version are going to know what time macine is?
Good points, and frankly the biggest issue long after any killed features are put back. I have also never received a document file in the format of ANY Apple wp, layout or presentation program. And though I occasionally used them myself I never dared sending it off without first exporting it to a format the receiver could actually read.
It's the proverbial tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it. It really doesn't much matter how much damage it did.
I can understand the angst of the current users but it is far more compelling that it exists on all the iPad, iPhone and macs in a seamless way even if features are lost.
I used Keynote for a while but every time I had to send my presentation to someone else I ended up with a crappy PDF file or a messed up ppt file. I eventually just stopped.
Using 4 year old software? That's hardly the Apple's way. Hardware I can understand but downgrade to a 4 yo software?
They just mean it for those that ALREADY have iWork 09, not for those that don't. I mean, if you want to, you can, there's nothing wrong with it per se.
I was using an old version of Microsoft Office for years after the later one came out and I didn't have any compelling reasons to upgrade and when I did, I had to spend money to do so. Was I flaming Microsoft forums over it? No. It's just a normal type thing.
heck, there are grown ups out there running businesses that don't even use a computer or even a calculator. They actually a freaking abacus or nothing at all. And I'm sure they don't have near the stress levels we do when it comes to software and hardware issues. They have ZERO. They might have other stresses, but they deal with them directly with the people that its related to. Their calculating devices are perfect that suits that needs. I'm surprised more technical people aren't carrying around a slide rule, just to prove they can figure out how to use one to impress others.
All that ranting and raving, when you could have simply to used iWork09, as the new apps DO NOT REPLACE THE OLD ONES. I repeat: ALL IWORK 2009 APPS ARE STILL ON YOUR MAC. Jesus Christ, some of you people are unbelievable, attempting to ignore some basic facts and twist reality so you can use the "apple fucked up and ruined my life" narrative. And no, the document didn't "automatically save". That does not happen. You explicitly saved it, and explicitly chose to replace the old one, instead of making a copy, or a million other things that would have exercised some caution. Even if that did happen, you could have (and still can) use time machine to get the older version back. But yeah, keep making shit up, and ignoring obvious and plentiful solutions, in order to sensationalize the situation.
Jesus Christ, some of you people are unbelievable, attempting to ignore some basic facts and twist reality so you can use the "users are doing it wrong, and Apple is not at fault" narrative. And yes, the document did "automatically save". That's explicitly a feature of the OS and Apple apps since 10.7.
iWork file compatibility for between iOS and OSX is an excellent goal and one I've been wanting since iWork came to iOS, but it’s been at some cost. Given that many here (on an Apple forum after all!) think that these missing features are of minimal or no importance tends to give weight to the view that most iWork users have no need of them which in turn favours Apple never bringing them back does it not? Why bring back linked text fields, mail merge, vertical rulers or AppleScript support if no more than 5% of users want those features? This is one depressing (to me anyway) future for Pages.
Some Pages users here seem to use so few of its features that I wonder why they don’t simply use TextEdit or Notes instead?
Rewriting what used to be called Pages ’09 didn’t require the Mac version to have really basic features removed. In Pages 5 you no longer have three features I used in most documents I created:
Two page view
Duplicating of pages
Rearranging of pages
Now providing these features would not change the file structure one bit and so retain iOS compatibility. The only reasons I can think for their removal are: a) Out of time for Pages 5.0 release date b) No plan to provide them in future. Let’s hope it’s simply a), though it begs the question of Apple’s scheduling - they can certainly afford the programmers!
I’ve bought every version of Pages since its release and (unless I’m mistaken) each handled any document created by the preceding version with absolutely no loss of data. Given that this was a pattern established by Apple over about 8 years, it’s not unreasonable for people to expect the same of Pages 5. As has been pointed out in other discussions, it is after all actually still called Pages which does carry certain expectations, otherwise why not call it “Notelets” or something?
It would have also been so simple for these new iWork applications to state/ask when opening existing documents - “This may remove some previous formatting - save as a new document? Y/N”. This is basic programming etiquette really, but Apple inexcusably didn’t do that and so it may simply and silently trash vital parts of your old document. Expecting users to have to retrieve their old document version to fix this unexpected potential damage seems insane, rather than Insanely Great.
I’m hoping that Pages 5 is the start of a bright path to bring many of these missing features back before Pages ’09 fails the compatibility test with OS X 10.??
I remember when I first met Pages. I was in my early twenties, and like many people from my generation, I was in a committed relationship with Microsoft Word. We didn’t really get along, but since everybody was in a similar position, I assumed it was the only way. And then, one day, I tried something else. A little icon I had never clicked on before, an ink bottle, simply named Pages, sitting in my dock. Pages presented itself, said it could do whatever Word was already doing for me, and more. Pages said it would be easier, that with it, it would feel more natural, and Pages was right.
Pages was better than Word. Pages didn’t mess up my work whenever I tried to change the layout of a document, or simply add a picture. Pages understood what I wanted to do. Pages had a clear full screen mode, with a pitch black background that allowed me to immerse myself into my work, one that I would sometimes make golf green or sky blue, on more silly days. Pages would gladly remove any tools or shortcuts I didn’t care for. Pages would minimize its format bar to best serve my minimalist propensity. Pages was eager to help and happy to oblige. I had found the light.
I promoted all my Word files into Pages files. I became what marketers call a power user. I explored every feature. I recommended it to everyone. I stopped using everything else. I wrote all my school essays with Pages. I wrote grocery lists, love letters, letters of motivation, terrible poems and incomprehensible plays (still in my early twenties) with Pages. And Pages even improved over time. Pages started to record every version of my work and allowed me to jump back to any given moment, just by clicking the top center of its window. Pages inspired an adorable mobile companion that supports its files, so that I could take them with me anywhere I go. Pages was getting more and more appealing than all the Word versions Microsoft had spawned over the years. Most writers and office workers were heading toward a doubtful future, made of clumsy features and unnecessary tools, but mine, mine was bright. Because Pages was on my side.
They say change is a part of life. That it is inevitable. And Pages has changed. Now, Pages has an oversized format bar at its right, one that occupies a comical amount of space on my screen, one that I can’t minimize without losing all the tools. Now, Pages is allergic to the word customize. Now, Pages won’t show the number of pages I have written so far (oh, the irony). Now, Pages won’t tell me how many words I’ve typed so far, unless I consent to bother with a white pop-up screen whose main purpose is to be in the way. Now, Pages doesn’t let me add comments in a side bar, like in the glory days; now, Pages wants me to comment in a bright and bulky square-shaped anomaly who screams delete as soon as it is created. Now, Pages won’t let me immerse into anything. Because Pages is not Pages anymore.
It is something else, made out of its name. It is an eloquent example of a minimalist intention turned over-simplistic. The once adorable companion has taken over, as if the swift capabilities of the mobile world were destined to conquer the tranquil strength of the desktop universe.
They say fighting change is futile, and that embracing it is your only chance to graze happiness. But I tried anyway. I dismissed the imposter that called itself Pages and summoned back the old pal. And then, the impossible happened. Pages forgot it was Pages. Pages didn’t recognize all the files we made together. And there is no easy way back. Suddenly, my future isn’t so bright anymore. Maybe it’s true, maybe it was inevitable. Maybe, like all young love, I was fooling myself into thinking it could last forever. All that’s left now is the faithful ink bottle, banished into a sub-folder, still eager to help and waiting in vain to be clicked on again. So goodbye, Pages. I guess Word will have to take me back.
Why is that those who are satisfied with the new iWork/Pages and "development"direction are so derisive, scornful and insulting of those who used the much more fully functioned '09 iWork and lament and are severely affected by the removal of functionality?
If you are satisfied then there is no need to post your abrasive comments, just get on with you low-tech day as usual.
It is not OK for Apple to downgrade a product without warning.
Customers (yes all are important no matter the level of use and ability) can reasonably expect an application to improve over time, and to rely on it for private or business use. Otherwise why bother to use it?
It is not OK to change iWork to make it cross-platform compatible by removing tools in common use.
The posts that say Apple will reinstate the removed features over time have no evidence this will happen, and are just Apple apologists. Wake up, Apple is now a mega-corporation with no interest in your sycophancy. Being critical of Apple is important to keep them honest.
Apple now has a long history of software discontinuity, not a recipe for loyalty.
The development strategy of Apple is clear, if you want software reliability DO NOT use Apple products.
Why is that those who are satisfied with the new iWork/Pages and "development"direction are so derisive, scornful and insulting of those who used the much more fully functioned '09 iWork and lament and are severely affected by the removal of functionality?
If you are satisfied then there is no need to post your abrasive comments, just get on with you low-tech day as usual.
It is not OK for Apple to downgrade a product without warning.
Customers (yes all are important no matter the level of use and ability) can reasonably expect an application to improve over time, and to rely on it for private or business use. Otherwise why bother to use it?
It is not OK to change iWork to make it cross-platform compatible by removing tools in common use.
The posts that say Apple will reinstate the removed features over time have no evidence this will happen, and are just Apple apologists. Wake up, Apple is now a mega-corporation with no interest in your sycophancy. Being critical of Apple is important to keep them honest.
Apple now has a long history of software discontinuity, not a recipe for loyalty.
The development strategy of Apple is clear, if you want software reliability DO NOT use Apple products.
Um, Apple fixes their OS and apps in a timely manner and they have been improving over time.
Case in point, many of the people initially complaining about FCPX have switched gears and waited for the updates, which have happened and once they took the time to learn how to adapt to the new workflow and Interface, many are posting favorable reviews.
Whenever a new OS comes out, there is always a LOT of confusion, s/w bugs, etc. It happens with ALL OS rollouts. Apple has always released bug fixes in a timely manner. In a few months, all of the complaints will be gone as things get resolved.
Android having malware, fragmentation, etc. affects the brand, but I guess their users just want buggy, malware potential problems even more, since iOS has pretty much ZERO malware.
Bolding it and cutting it out of the rest to save people the trouble of wasting their time reading that crap.
Yeah, but at least Apple isn't screwing up like Microsoft's Vista fiasco. I guess some people don't remember people going backwards in droves even months after the update and just bypassing it. That didn't seem to stop them using Windows.
Some of us actually do paying work with Apple products.
It’s a real shame that whenever Apple releases a new product they send out a signal that destroys the old version of that product on everyone’s computer, making it impossible to use anymo…
So tired of people that have no idea how to move forward. You can't change things and change nothing at the same time.
That or they have no contingency if an upgrade breaks something that is important to them. I didn't move to Mavericks on my MBP until I cloned my previous system and tested 10.9 via starting up from an external drive. Only then did I then swap the drives around, and I can go back any time.
Comments
Hi mdriftmeyer, I think you're misunderstanding me. I meant that many people wouldn't want to turn to TextEdit every time they need rtf because it's just a text editor not a word processor.
Or am. I misunderstanding you? : )
THEN OPEN THEM UP USING iWORK '09!!!!
Using 4 year old software? That's hardly the Apple's way. Hardware I can understand but downgrade to a 4 yo software?
Do you really think those not smart enough to work on a copy of their document when using a new app version are going to know what time macine is?
So use the new stuff.
Instead of making this a circular argument, recognize what the new software is.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/92061/jobs-responds-to-outrage-over-macbooks-missing-firewire
Good points, and frankly the biggest issue long after any killed features are put back. I have also never received a document file in the format of ANY Apple wp, layout or presentation program. And though I occasionally used them myself I never dared sending it off without first exporting it to a format the receiver could actually read.
It's the proverbial tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it. It really doesn't much matter how much damage it did.
I can understand the angst of the current users but it is far more compelling that it exists on all the iPad, iPhone and macs in a seamless way even if features are lost.
I used Keynote for a while but every time I had to send my presentation to someone else I ended up with a crappy PDF file or a messed up ppt file. I eventually just stopped.
Using 4 year old software? That's hardly the Apple's way. Hardware I can understand but downgrade to a 4 yo software?
They just mean it for those that ALREADY have iWork 09, not for those that don't. I mean, if you want to, you can, there's nothing wrong with it per se.
I was using an old version of Microsoft Office for years after the later one came out and I didn't have any compelling reasons to upgrade and when I did, I had to spend money to do so. Was I flaming Microsoft forums over it? No. It's just a normal type thing.
heck, there are grown ups out there running businesses that don't even use a computer or even a calculator. They actually a freaking abacus or nothing at all. And I'm sure they don't have near the stress levels we do when it comes to software and hardware issues. They have ZERO. They might have other stresses, but they deal with them directly with the people that its related to. Their calculating devices are perfect that suits that needs. I'm surprised more technical people aren't carrying around a slide rule, just to prove they can figure out how to use one to impress others.
Jesus Christ, some of you people are unbelievable, attempting to ignore some basic facts and twist reality so you can use the "users are doing it wrong, and Apple is not at fault" narrative. And yes, the document did "automatically save". That's explicitly a feature of the OS and Apple apps since 10.7.
Et cetera.
iWork file compatibility for between iOS and OSX is an excellent goal and one I've been wanting since iWork came to iOS, but it’s been at some cost. Given that many here (on an Apple forum after all!) think that these missing features are of minimal or no importance tends to give weight to the view that most iWork users have no need of them which in turn favours Apple never bringing them back does it not? Why bring back linked text fields, mail merge, vertical rulers or AppleScript support if no more than 5% of users want those features? This is one depressing (to me anyway) future for Pages.
Some Pages users here seem to use so few of its features that I wonder why they don’t simply use TextEdit or Notes instead?
Rewriting what used to be called Pages ’09 didn’t require the Mac version to have really basic features removed. In Pages 5 you no longer have three features I used in most documents I created:
Two page view
Duplicating of pages
Rearranging of pages
Now providing these features would not change the file structure one bit and so retain iOS compatibility. The only reasons I can think for their removal are: a) Out of time for Pages 5.0 release date b) No plan to provide them in future. Let’s hope it’s simply a), though it begs the question of Apple’s scheduling - they can certainly afford the programmers!
I’ve bought every version of Pages since its release and (unless I’m mistaken) each handled any document created by the preceding version with absolutely no loss of data. Given that this was a pattern established by Apple over about 8 years, it’s not unreasonable for people to expect the same of Pages 5. As has been pointed out in other discussions, it is after all actually still called Pages which does carry certain expectations, otherwise why not call it “Notelets” or something?
It would have also been so simple for these new iWork applications to state/ask when opening existing documents - “This may remove some previous formatting - save as a new document? Y/N”. This is basic programming etiquette really, but Apple inexcusably didn’t do that and so it may simply and silently trash vital parts of your old document. Expecting users to have to retrieve their old document version to fix this unexpected potential damage seems insane, rather than Insanely Great.
I’m hoping that Pages 5 is the start of a bright path to bring many of these missing features back before Pages ’09 fails the compatibility test with OS X 10.??
So tired of people that have no idea how to move forward. You can't change things and change nothing at the same time.
I remember when I first met Pages. I was in my early twenties, and like many people from my generation, I was in a committed relationship with Microsoft Word. We didn’t really get along, but since everybody was in a similar position, I assumed it was the only way. And then, one day, I tried something else. A little icon I had never clicked on before, an ink bottle, simply named Pages, sitting in my dock. Pages presented itself, said it could do whatever Word was already doing for me, and more. Pages said it would be easier, that with it, it would feel more natural, and Pages was right.
Pages was better than Word. Pages didn’t mess up my work whenever I tried to change the layout of a document, or simply add a picture. Pages understood what I wanted to do. Pages had a clear full screen mode, with a pitch black background that allowed me to immerse myself into my work, one that I would sometimes make golf green or sky blue, on more silly days. Pages would gladly remove any tools or shortcuts I didn’t care for. Pages would minimize its format bar to best serve my minimalist propensity. Pages was eager to help and happy to oblige. I had found the light.
I promoted all my Word files into Pages files. I became what marketers call a power user. I explored every feature. I recommended it to everyone. I stopped using everything else. I wrote all my school essays with Pages. I wrote grocery lists, love letters, letters of motivation, terrible poems and incomprehensible plays (still in my early twenties) with Pages. And Pages even improved over time. Pages started to record every version of my work and allowed me to jump back to any given moment, just by clicking the top center of its window. Pages inspired an adorable mobile companion that supports its files, so that I could take them with me anywhere I go. Pages was getting more and more appealing than all the Word versions Microsoft had spawned over the years. Most writers and office workers were heading toward a doubtful future, made of clumsy features and unnecessary tools, but mine, mine was bright. Because Pages was on my side.
They say change is a part of life. That it is inevitable. And Pages has changed. Now, Pages has an oversized format bar at its right, one that occupies a comical amount of space on my screen, one that I can’t minimize without losing all the tools. Now, Pages is allergic to the word customize. Now, Pages won’t show the number of pages I have written so far (oh, the irony). Now, Pages won’t tell me how many words I’ve typed so far, unless I consent to bother with a white pop-up screen whose main purpose is to be in the way. Now, Pages doesn’t let me add comments in a side bar, like in the glory days; now, Pages wants me to comment in a bright and bulky square-shaped anomaly who screams delete as soon as it is created. Now, Pages won’t let me immerse into anything. Because Pages is not Pages anymore.
It is something else, made out of its name. It is an eloquent example of a minimalist intention turned over-simplistic. The once adorable companion has taken over, as if the swift capabilities of the mobile world were destined to conquer the tranquil strength of the desktop universe.
They say fighting change is futile, and that embracing it is your only chance to graze happiness. But I tried anyway. I dismissed the imposter that called itself Pages and summoned back the old pal. And then, the impossible happened. Pages forgot it was Pages. Pages didn’t recognize all the files we made together. And there is no easy way back. Suddenly, my future isn’t so bright anymore. Maybe it’s true, maybe it was inevitable. Maybe, like all young love, I was fooling myself into thinking it could last forever. All that’s left now is the faithful ink bottle, banished into a sub-folder, still eager to help and waiting in vain to be clicked on again. So goodbye, Pages. I guess Word will have to take me back.
Seems stupid to sign up just to post FUD. You could have spent the time wasted on that diatribe on something productive.
Why is that those who are satisfied with the new iWork/Pages and "development"direction are so derisive, scornful and insulting of those who used the much more fully functioned '09 iWork and lament and are severely affected by the removal of functionality?
If you are satisfied then there is no need to post your abrasive comments, just get on with you low-tech day as usual.
It is not OK for Apple to downgrade a product without warning.
Customers (yes all are important no matter the level of use and ability) can reasonably expect an application to improve over time, and to rely on it for private or business use. Otherwise why bother to use it?
It is not OK to change iWork to make it cross-platform compatible by removing tools in common use.
The posts that say Apple will reinstate the removed features over time have no evidence this will happen, and are just Apple apologists. Wake up, Apple is now a mega-corporation with no interest in your sycophancy. Being critical of Apple is important to keep them honest.
Apple now has a long history of software discontinuity, not a recipe for loyalty.
The development strategy of Apple is clear, if you want software reliability DO NOT use Apple products.
Read this on brand fragility http://corporateintelligenceradio.com/2013/10/28/how-fragile-is-a-brand/
if you want software reliability DO NOT use Apple products.
Bolding it and cutting it out of the rest to save people the trouble of wasting their time reading that crap.
Why is that those who are satisfied with the new iWork/Pages and "development"direction are so derisive, scornful and insulting of those who used the much more fully functioned '09 iWork and lament and are severely affected by the removal of functionality?
If you are satisfied then there is no need to post your abrasive comments, just get on with you low-tech day as usual.
It is not OK for Apple to downgrade a product without warning.
Customers (yes all are important no matter the level of use and ability) can reasonably expect an application to improve over time, and to rely on it for private or business use. Otherwise why bother to use it?
It is not OK to change iWork to make it cross-platform compatible by removing tools in common use.
The posts that say Apple will reinstate the removed features over time have no evidence this will happen, and are just Apple apologists. Wake up, Apple is now a mega-corporation with no interest in your sycophancy. Being critical of Apple is important to keep them honest.
Apple now has a long history of software discontinuity, not a recipe for loyalty.
The development strategy of Apple is clear, if you want software reliability DO NOT use Apple products.
Read this on brand fragility http://corporateintelligenceradio.com/2013/10/28/how-fragile-is-a-brand/
Really?
Um, Apple fixes their OS and apps in a timely manner and they have been improving over time.
Case in point, many of the people initially complaining about FCPX have switched gears and waited for the updates, which have happened and once they took the time to learn how to adapt to the new workflow and Interface, many are posting favorable reviews.
Whenever a new OS comes out, there is always a LOT of confusion, s/w bugs, etc. It happens with ALL OS rollouts. Apple has always released bug fixes in a timely manner. In a few months, all of the complaints will be gone as things get resolved.
Android having malware, fragmentation, etc. affects the brand, but I guess their users just want buggy, malware potential problems even more, since iOS has pretty much ZERO malware.
Bolding it and cutting it out of the rest to save people the trouble of wasting their time reading that crap.
Yeah, but at least Apple isn't screwing up like Microsoft's Vista fiasco. I guess some people don't remember people going backwards in droves even months after the update and just bypassing it. That didn't seem to stop them using Windows.
You miss the point. OS updates do not affect productivity and work flow
Application downgrades and hiccups do.
Who wants to sit around and wait for Apple to get round to fixing applications and reinstating functionality?
Some of us actually do paying work with Apple products.
It’s a real shame that whenever Apple releases a new product they send out a signal that destroys the old version of that product on everyone’s computer, making it impossible to use anymo…
Oh, wait.
So tired of people that have no idea how to move forward. You can't change things and change nothing at the same time.
That or they have no contingency if an upgrade breaks something that is important to them. I didn't move to Mavericks on my MBP until I cloned my previous system and tested 10.9 via starting up from an external drive. Only then did I then swap the drives around, and I can go back any time.
Complainers gonna complain.
You miss the point. OS updates do not affect productivity and work flow
Application downgrades and hiccups do.
Who wants to sit around and wait for Apple to get round to fixing applications and reinstating functionality?
Some of us actually do paying work with Apple products.
Indeed we do. Simply continue to use the older version of iWork, just as I continue to use FCP7 in my work place.