Review: Apple's late-2013 13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display

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  • Reply 81 of 126
    doumeki wrote: »
    1) When Cosair solders RAM onto a memory stick PCB they are essentially working with equipment that if fails totals a value of around 10 dollars. When Apple is soldering RAM onto their PCB they are working with equipment that if fails is valued around 300-600 dollars, that motherboard is then placed into a Macbook Pro and sold for as much as $3000, Cosair is lucky to get $200. Common sense would state that Apple would at least test the RAM chips before soldering them on. I assume Cosair may also but not with the same level of depth. But clearly this is simply a common sense assumption since we can't possibly have all the figures to get a definite answer.
    Okay, so riddle me this. Does Apple not have to test the RAM they put in the 4 GB model? Do they test just the 8 GB alone? No, of course they don't. They have to test it whether it's 4 GB, 8 GB, 16 GB, 2 TB, 5 ZB, whatever. So how does testing factor at all into the pricing between the 4 GB and 8 GB, or really anything else besides the difference in the cost of the components themselves?
  • Reply 82 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post





    Okay, so riddle me this. Does Apple not have to test the RAM they put in the 4 GB model? Do they test just the 8 GB alone? No, of course they don't. They have to test it whether it's 4 GB, 8 GB, 16 GB, 2 TB, 5 ZB, whatever. So how does testing factor at all into the pricing between the 4 GB and 8 GB, or really anything else besides the difference in the cost of the components themselves?

     

    Sir, without being rude your really hurting my head now with your constant faulty arguments. You keep making none arguments about things you clearly lack the ability to understand, and with respect that's fine but am getting bored of this back and forth I can clearly see it won't get me anywhere. 

     

    Whatever victory your looking to achieve, your more than welcome to it. I am smart enough to know a lost cause when I see one, I won'.t be continuing this discussion with you, thanks for the reply regardless.

     

    I will leave you with this, Audi are going to charge a lot more to fit the same part as Skoda, The part costs the same for both of the cars but one charges more to fit it. One could easily claim that Audi are ripping people off, but am willing to bet they fit that same part to a better standard. So in closing, if you don't like getting charged more for the same parts but with a better finish I suggest you buy an Acer Netbook it was built for someone like you, and they cost around $250 which is an amazing deal.

  • Reply 83 of 126
    doumeki wrote: »
    Sir, without being rude
    :lol:
    your (sic) really hurting my head now with your constant faulty arguments. You keep making none (sic) arguments about things you clearly lack the ability to understand, and with respect that's fine but (sic) am getting bored of this back and forth I (sic) can clearly see it won't get me anywhere. 

    Whatever victory your (sic) looking to achieve, your (sic) more than welcome to it. I am smart enough to know a lost cause when I see one, (sic) I won'.t (sic) be continuing this discussion with you, (sic) thanks for the reply regardless.
    Since you clearly lack the intellectual capacity to understand, much less respond to any of the substantive points that I made, I'll just settle for pointing out your atrocious punctuation and grammar.
    I will leave you with this, Audi are going to charge a lot more to fit the same part as Skoda, The part costs the same for both of the cars but one charges more to fit it. One could easily claim that Audi are ripping people off, but am willing to bet they fit that same part to a better standard.
    As I pointed out, Crucial is simply Micron's consumer brand. Crucial RAM is Micron RAM. It's just what they sell to consumers instead of OEMs like Apple. It's also way more expensive than what Apple pays, because of the more complicated form factor, profit margins, marketing, etc. Also, the specs for the Micron RAM Apple is using are available. It's standard DDR3-1600.
    So in closing, if you don't like getting charged more for the same parts but with a better finish I suggest you buy an Acer Netbook it was built for someone like you, and they cost around $250 which is an amazing deal.
    More personal attacks. What a surprise. Nowhere did I say anything about "getting charged more for the same parts but with a better finish" anywhere in my posts. Try actually reading sometime; you might learn something.
  • Reply 84 of 126
    By the way: I found the price of 4 GB of Micron D9PXV (which has the full part number MT41K256M16HA-125 per [url=http://www.micron.com/parts/dram/ddr3-sdram/mt41k256m16ha-125]Micron's web site[/url]). It turns out to be $9.59. [url=http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=MT41K256M16HA-125:E]Here's my source.[/url]
  • Reply 85 of 126
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akqies View Post

    How much trouble would it be to create a Safari extension that would allow you to type in names into a block list that would also remove those posters and their content from all Huddler forums?

    Waste of time in my opinion. It needs to done on the server, and for that, one needs permission and access to the source code, That definitely won't be a project for me. The owners of the software know about the issue of blocked users showing up in the replies, but, they apparently don't care, although it seems like it would be a fairly pervasive problem.  I really don't want to derail the thread further with this.

  • Reply 86 of 126
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    By the way: I found the price of 4 GB of Micron D9PXV (which has the full part number MT41K256M16HA-125 per Micron's web site). It turns out to be $9.59. Here's my source.

    I'd like an apology now, but of course I don't expect one from someone of your apparent intellectual caliber.

    :no:
  • Reply 87 of 126
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    You sound like you don't know what you're talking about either. Do u ever do research before you post all these jerk reactions/replies?

    After years of shooting down the same old same old typical nonsense comments..yea maybe it sounds knee jerk...but it's actually just well-practiced. He knows what he's talking about.

    People that whine about the masterpiece that is rMBP because it has soldered ram....in short....don't.
  • Reply 88 of 126
    Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post

    I’d like an apology now…

     

    Only when you’ve learned what RAM is and what Apple’s doing with it. Except then you’ll know we’re not the ones to be apologizing.

  • Reply 89 of 126
    akqies wrote: »
    How much trouble would it be to create a Safari extension that would allow you to type in names into a block list that would also remove those posters and their content from all Huddler forums?

    I'd pay for that!
  • Reply 90 of 126

    For anyone to make the statement the 4GB of RAM is enough is a foolish assertion. We all understand that Mavericks is using compression but that only goes so far. If someone is using Adobe Photoshop Lightroom the recommended amount of RAM for that software alone is 4GB.

     

    The fact that the GPU uses system RAM is also a consideration. RAM is like gas in a car, your car doesn't go faster with a full tank of gas but it certainly goes slower if you run out of gas. If you make the comment that 4GB of RAM is enough you better be able to back that up with technical data. The needs of the user and the programs they are going to run dictates the system requirements.

     

    The other joke is using the term "Pro" for a system that has 1280x800 resolution, 4GB of RAM and 5400rpm HDD. That was a pro system in the 1990's.

  • Reply 91 of 126
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AtlApple View Post

     

    For anyone to make the statement the 4GB of RAM is enough is a foolish assertion. We all understand that Mavericks is using compression but that only goes so far. If someone is using Adobe Photoshop Lightroom the recommended amount of RAM for that software alone is 4GB.


     

    It depends entirely on what your doing with it, although I agree the 4GB RAM model most likely ain't the best in terms of a future proof investment. Any soft of professional program except for word processing applications could be quite limited by the 4GB, more so once the GPU has taken its piece like you pointed out. However as a general web browsing and homework typing machine its more than capable.

     

    Quote:

    The fact that the GPU uses system RAM is also a consideration. RAM is like gas in a car, your car doesn't go faster with a full tank of gas but it certainly goes slower if you run out of gas. If you make the comment that 4GB of RAM is enough you better be able to back that up with technical data. The needs of the user and the programs they are going to run dictates the system requirements.


     

    I don't understand what sort of technical data your looking for though, do you need some information on how much RAM Chrome & MS Word uses? Clearly for professionals you will want the extra RAM, but I don't think the bottom spec Macbook 13" Pro was intended for professionals. I think Apple intended this as a cheap option to a decently performing retina laptop. 

     

    Quote:


    The other joke is using the term "Pro" for a system that has 1280x800 resolution, 4GB of RAM and 5400rpm HDD. That was a pro system in the 1990's.


     

    I assume you aren't talking about the Retina Macbook pro here, because that is the specs of the none retina model which hasn't been updated since 2011, I think the only reason they are keeping that around is so people have an option with a ROM drive.

  • Reply 92 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AtlApple View Post

     

    For anyone to make the statement the 4GB of RAM is enough is a foolish assertion. We all understand that Mavericks is using compression but that only goes so far. If someone is using Adobe Photoshop Lightroom the recommended amount of RAM for that software alone is 4GB.

     

    The fact that the GPU uses system RAM is also a consideration. RAM is like gas in a car, your car doesn't go faster with a full tank of gas but it certainly goes slower if you run out of gas. If you make the comment that 4GB of RAM is enough you better be able to back that up with technical data. The needs of the user and the programs they are going to run dictates the system requirements.

     

    The other joke is using the term "Pro" for a system that has 1280x800 resolution, 4GB of RAM and 5400rpm HDD. That was a pro system in the 1990's.


    The bolded part is hilarious. And it was Apple's best seller until a few months ago. It just goes to show how ignorant most PC buyers are.

     

    But with profits of 8 billion per quarter, there was no excuse for Apple. Instead of doing stupid stuff like dividends, why not use the money in excess for better products?

     

    I want each computer to last at least 5 years. That's what's happening worldwide in the industry. 16gb ram should be the minimum right now, especially with integrated graphics, even if the majority won't use it until this year. The same can be said about storage. 128gb is pathetic.

     

    Apple could easily put 256gb ssd and 16gb ram minimum an maintain more than 25% profit margin on their macs. Everyone would win in the long term.

     

    Besides, what bothers me about this forum is the posters that fiercely defend every action Apple takes. "do you know more than Steve Jobs?" "do you know more than Tim Cook?"? Of course we do, sometimes. Steve was the guy that screamed about iTunes on Windows, after all. He was also the jerk that couldn't work with anybody and had to be fired.

     

    Everyone make mistakes. Ask Microsoft, Nokia, Rim, Apple itself.

     

    Seriously, 4gb ram and 128 gb on a 1200€ machine? No one is forced to buy, but at least I hope that Apple and the usual retards stop the "they try to make the best product possible for as cheap as they can" crap.

     

    Basically, the base rMBP is better than every Windows machine available, but Apple could make much better.

  • Reply 93 of 126
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,232moderator
    atlapple wrote: »
    For anyone to make the statement the 4GB of RAM is enough is a foolish assertion.

    It's enough for the entry model.
    atlapple wrote: »
    The other joke is using the term "Pro" for a system that has 1280x800 resolution, 4GB of RAM and 5400rpm HDD. That was a pro system in the 1990's.

    It depends which profession it's used in. Professional software development and web development don't require all that many resources. Same with the legal profession, journalism, writers etc. You can chop together a video on 4GB RAM too.
    By the way: I found the price of 4 GB of Micron D9PXV (which has the full part number MT41K256M16HA-125 per Micron's web site). It turns out to be $9.59.

    That's a 4Gbit chip, not 4GBytes of memory. 4GBytes needs 8x 4Gbit chips = $77, add 30% gross margins and you get $110, Apple charges $100 for the upgrade. Apple will most likely get memory cheaper (retail 4GB upgrades are just over $40) but they also have to pay for machines to fit the parts.

    We'd all like Apple to offer more things at a lower price but what they do is take all the parts, factor in all the build costs and add healthy margins. Taking a hit of $50-100 when it's not necessary is not what they do (their gross profit, not even net profit on a $1299 machine is ~$390). PC manufacturers do this and it kills their margins because buyers end up going for the lowest priced models. Apple pushes people who need the higher spec up to the higher priced models and it works out very well for them.

    If DDR4 memory prices allow more RAM at a lower price, they can do that or they can stick with 4GB and drop the entry MBP price down to $1199.
  • Reply 94 of 126
    I'm pro Apple, and I find 4GB of ram in any offered machine insulting. So maybe it wouldn't cost then only 15$, maybe 20$? 30$? It's not a price drop if it's also a spec drop, that's called a value drop.
  • Reply 95 of 126
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alienzed View Post



    I'm pro Apple, and I find 4GB of ram in any offered machine insulting. So maybe it wouldn't cost then only 15$, maybe 20$? 30$? It's not a price drop if it's also a spec drop, that's called a value drop.

    Except it is a price drop.  4gb is 1299- if you jump that up to 8gb it is 1399.  Last year 8gb was 1499.  So unless you don't consider $100 less a price drop, I don't know what to tell you...

  • Reply 96 of 126
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,232moderator
    alienzed wrote: »
    I'm pro Apple, and I find 4GB of ram in any offered machine insulting. So maybe it wouldn't cost then only 15$, maybe 20$? 30$? It's not a price drop if it's also a spec drop, that's called a value drop.

    The old 128GB/8GB model was $1499, now you get 256GB/8GB for $1499. 128GB/8GB is now $1399. $100 price drop. It's not a great price drop but better than nothing. The 4GB option just gets that entry rMBP price down a bit closer to the old model. The entry MBP always had 4GB, the downside now is it can't be upgraded later, which will affect resale a bit.
  • Reply 97 of 126
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    It's enough for the entry model.

    It depends which profession it's used in. Professional software development and web development don't require all that many resources. Same with the legal profession, journalism, writers etc. You can chop together a video on 4GB RAM too.

    That's a 4Gbit chip, not 4GBytes of memory. 4GBytes needs 8x 4Gbit chips = $77, add 30% gross margins and you get $110, Apple charges $100 for the upgrade. Apple will most likely get memory cheaper (retail 4GB upgrades are just over $40) but they also have to pay for machines to fit the parts.



    We'd all like Apple to offer more things at a lower price but what they do is take all the parts, factor in all the build costs and add healthy margins. Taking a hit of $50-100 when it's not necessary is not what they do (their gross profit, not even net profit on a $1299 machine is ~$390). PC manufacturers do this and it kills their margins because buyers end up going for the lowest priced models. Apple pushes people who need the higher spec up to the higher priced models and it works out very well for them.



    If DDR4 memory prices allow more RAM at a lower price, they can do that or they can stick with 4GB and drop the entry MBP price down to $1199.

    I guess my questions would be why drop the specs on a entry level pro model? The drop in price really isn't a drop if the hardware isn't the same. The majority have the mindset that 8GB of RAM should be standard, even if that isn't the case or the nees I'm not sure it's the right move to lowes hardware specs from the previous model. 

     

    Some consumers may feel annoyed because they feel the need to upgrade one what Apple tags as a professional laptop. This would be one case where I feel Apple should stick to the old way of doing things, give and upgrade or update at the same price point. I admit it's more perception then need, users have always had an interesting mindset when it comes to RAM. 

     

    Will be interesting to see how many units sell. 

  • Reply 98 of 126
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    atlapple wrote: »
    If someone is using Adobe Photoshop Lightroom the recommended amount of RAM for that software alone is 4GB.

    This is what I don't get about people like you. Why do you think the entry level specs are the same specs that someone that uses Adobe Photoshop? Why are you so bothered by the fact that Apple has made the MBP less expensive for entry level buyers? Are you really so shallow as to not want more people buying the MBP so you can feel more elitist?
  • Reply 99 of 126
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    atlapple wrote: »
    The drop in price really isn't a drop if the hardware isn't the same.

    So no Macs, except for clearance and refurbished products, have ever had a price drop because each each revision is new HW? W…T… F…?
  • Reply 100 of 126
    This machine has me almost completely sold because I don't do high end graphics and just want a portable laptop with a beautiful display and good battery life. That said, can anyone comment on if the Iris graphics is powerful enough to power the retina on the higher resolutions of 1440 x 900 or 2560 x 1600, and if you notice any lag (like the 2012 retina model without a discrete gpu)? 1280 x 800 native is just not enough screen real estate for a 13in computer these days, that's what my 19in square dell monitors that are 5yrs old are running for their native resolution...
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