Microsoft counters Apple's free iWork suite by bolstering its Office Web Apps

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 120
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member

    "With SkyDrive and Office 2013, you can open and work on your Word, Excel, and other Office documents from your SkyDrive. You can easily share docs with friends and work on them together. When you're done, save them to SkyDrive, and they'll be with you wherever you are.

    If you don't have Office 2013, you can still access, work on, and share Office docs in SkyDrive.com right in your browser with free Office Web Apps."

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/skydrive/downloa

    http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/web-apps/redir/XT103329178.aspx

  • Reply 42 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

     

    Huh?


    So did you actually bother to read the post I was responding to when making the question? Or did you just start frothing at the mouth like a rabid fanboi with no notion of the context of my question?

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

     

    Just go check it out for yourself real quick, it takes 2 minutes to get in and start using instead of posting questions here if it's available or not. It's actually a very useful app, I have been using it for a year and this update is really nice.


    No, thanks. Seems pretty worthless to me. I have better things to do than dick around with some web-based office suite.

  • Reply 43 of 120
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

     

    Apple are in a great pincer movement on OS X/iOS along with iWorks striking at the heart of M$'s business empire.

     

    Lemon Bon Bon.


    agreed.

     

    At best,  MS will be forced to deliver a iOS version of Office at free or near free with a function set that is better than iWorks. 

    Winner: Apple.. still sells iPads to everyone.   MS makes $10 per iOS user instead of  $110, But $10 per 1Billion users per release isn't such a bad profit.   MS... is blocked from the high margin consumer 'device' space, and has to compete on the 'Our 3 Windows experiences prove we are listening to our customer and not saying no to their requirements,' and hoping that Win/ARM WinTabTel and WinTel maintains their software sales... doubtful.   

     

    And in the middle is this move.  MS is forced to bring more functionality to the web to maintain competitive parity in the world.  Winner: Both... MS maintains it Office365 strategy (MS has told all it's major customers that Office Apps will all run in IE10 by 2017, and no host based code will be shipped after 2020.  In short, MS is driving to a fully cloud based delivery, so it can accurately capitate usage for corporations (with overage charges... MS will likely go with a daily use license... If you have 20,000 employees, and buy a 2000 seat license for Office 365 for say , 100K a year ($50 per seat per year, for example only), but the the 2001st person of the day who checks their mail or views a word document comes in with a $75 overage charge, again for example only).

     

    Apple still sells every ipad they plan to sell, although the IE10 integration (see below) may limit a lot the functionality.

     

    At worst, MS scorched earths iOS and Office365 is 'IE10optimized' to make a safari experience a painful one for iOS and Mac users.

    Loser: everyone, but apple.  People coupled to Office have live with a non iOS environment, Apple has enough profit margins to increment iWork closer, and for those who 'don't drive trucks' (anyone who doesn't use PivotTable or embedded macros in casual conversation... oh, wait... that 99.9999% of the world.).

     

    The thing about most of advanced excel is... that is really should be an app for that.   Turning Excel (or Adobe Reader) into a forms interpreter in the internet age is the classic, 'But I have a hammer... why can't I pound in that Screw!!!!' problem.  This is part and parcel of a corporate environment that is in competition with each other, and not building a cohesive SW experience strategy.  Why make Excel hard to build into an application... move that applications development language into Excel?   That becomes a code support nightmare.

     

    The other thing this plays is that Apple is in the Long Game.  They can wait out Microsoft.  They have optimized their production stream almost to the silica mines up through the OS, with strategic emerging tech acquisitions.  They have aligned their business around platforms, not verticals.  They have a solid leadership team at the top.  

     

    MS... still is playing the 90 day game.   They have to prop up XBox to make it look profitable.   Ballmer made his final mistake and is being shown the door.  They bought Nokia mobile not because of strategy, but because their strategy backfired, and this was the only save face tactical move, since they are burning bridges with all other phoneset OEMs, and now notebook and tablet OEMs.   It could all deathspiral in 3 years, and MS will 'white dwarf' into an Cloud based platform and office suite provider, and almost everything else will be firesaled to regain focus.  

     

    Why 3 years...

    1) major corporations are eviserating their data centers for cloud solutions... driving the old Windows Admins out of position of specification control.

    2) Eventually, AD (azure) and MSOffice apps will be the only thing that MS sells that is good enough to compete on price.  Stuff that brings no business value (IIS, SQLServer, WinServer, heck even Windows) will face greater competition as cloud solutions will become 'good enough' (slap up a big virtual pipe to AWS, spin up a Linux instance with ODBC compliant database server, software co,nfigure the security controls and bam...  a 200K 'perpetual' license just went poof for MS, at a measly 2K per month (100 months... 8 years, forever in internet years).... and it's expensed, vs capitalized (no HW, nocrazy leases, just power... and a system that your DBA can operate (albeit badly), cutting another Windows Admin out).

    3) BYOD.   a variation on a theme, but BYOD will be pretty much the game if you want to be employed and 'flexible' in work

    4) VDI.  A lot of security models basically say the endpoint is where the data turns to pixels.   So virtualizing windows will be the norm.  All those desktop licenses... gone, as all the desktops will convert to BYOD, or will stagnate at Win7, as that's 'good enough' for a Citrix client.

    3 years equates to the average depreciation/lifespan of most desktops  in the office, and will be the EOL for Win7.   So, as businesses decide to replace desktops... they may just say 'BYOD' or replace a $400WinTel Desktop with a $199Chromebook.

     

    In short, this is a critical next 12 months for MS... They have to maintain their Office365 'lead' as that is really their 'endgame' (xBox, Surface, and remotely managed Office Apps)... Nothing else is strategic.

  • Reply 44 of 120
    Microsoft is doggedly adhering to 1990s software pricing conventions, charging $200 for Windows 8, $220 for their cash-cow Microsoft Office, and $99 per year subscription for Office365 (where you end up with documents and no way to use them if you don't keep paying). That's "where the puck was", and way out of line with both cost expectations and application uses in today's world. This is partly desperation on Microsoft's part, trying to keep profits up in that area to compensate with very large, continuing losses in other segments (Xbox, Bing, etc.).
  • Reply 45 of 120
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

     

     

    Disaster? Rectify?

     

     

    So you've been using iWork for years? Why can't you simply continue to use iWork '09 as you were? Then when the latest version regains all the features you hold so near and dear, you can make the switch.

     

    I don't believe Apple has screwed anyone over or did anything wrong. It's their software, if they feel the need to rewrite it from the ground up so they can gain cross platform compatibility then they should do just that. In the long run this makes much more sense.


     

    Yes, I am using it since years. I know this argument and I now start using iWork 09 again. The problem is: there was no warning. When you open a pages document, its converted into a Pages 5 Document. No (simple) way to get it back into 09. In particular, when things are lost (e.g. formatting). So you are left alone with converted pages documents that are not as they were before. That's no disaster? Believe me, it is. Also, as files are converted, it's not such a good idea to simply delete pages 5. That means, you have to right click a file and choose open with pages 4.3. My wife doesn't want to do this. If you accidentally open it by double clicking – it gets converted. Nothing to rectify here?

    This is way beyond 'it just works'. This just a big mess. Imagine any other company would have delivered such an 'update'.

  • Reply 46 of 120
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

     

    So did you actually bother to read the post I was responding to when making the question? Or did you just start frothing at the mouth like a rabid fanboi with no notion of the context of my question?

     


     

    No, thanks. Seems pretty worthless to me. I have better things to do than dick around with some web-based office suite.


    No it doesn't require Surface, I thought it was pretty obvious when I told you to go check it out for your self. Fanboy, who are you kidding, we are all Fanboys or we wouldn't be here. I just so happen to enjoy products from more than just one company. You need new material sir and I'm a Fangirl, thank you very much. I was cross with you because it was obvious you didn't read the article. You say no thank you won't wast your time but your wasting reading and posting about a product you have no interest in, I would think you would want to spend at least 5 minutes investigating something that you are complaining about, especially when it's free to do so.  You sir are a Fanboy, what you are doing is the very definition of one.

  • Reply 47 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    No it doesn't require Surface, I thought it was pretty obvious when I told you to go check it out for your self. Fanboy, who are you kidding, we are all Fanboys or we wouldn't be here. I just so happen to enjoy products from more than just one company. You need new material sir and I'm a Fangirl, thank you very much. I was cross with you because it was obvious you didn't read the article. You say no thank you won't wast your time but your wasting reading and posting about a product you have no interest in, I would think you would want to spend at least 5 minutes investigating something that you are complaining about, especially when it's free to do so.  You sir are a Fanboy, what you are doing is the very definition of one.


    So it seems you didn't actually read the context of my statement which was someone stating "The Surface is beginning to sound better and better.." So unless these Web apps required a Surface to use them, I'm failing to understand their statement hence my question. It's akin to me saying "A Mac keeps looking better and better" in reference to an article about Adobe Cloud which requires some weird leap of logic that makes no sense.

     

    Also, how exactly am I being a fanboy by not caring about an office suite? Nothing in my life is going to be improved by trying Office Web Apps for 5 minutes. That this seems to rile you up and get your frothing at the mouth so much is simply an amusing side effect.

  • Reply 48 of 120
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleSince86 View Post



    Microsoft is doggedly adhering to 1990s software pricing conventions, charging $200 for Windows 8, $220 for their cash-cow Microsoft Office, and $99 per year subscription for Office365 (where you end up with documents and no way to use them if you don't keep paying). That's "where the puck was", and way out of line with both cost expectations and application uses in today's world. This is partly desperation on Microsoft's part, trying to keep profits up in that area to compensate with very large, continuing losses in other segments (Xbox, Bing, etc.).

    You do not have to pay for Office web apps, it is a free service. Office 365 is for a business, you are a consumer, the apps are free to use.

     

    "With SkyDrive and Office 2013, you can open and work on your Word, Excel, and other Office documents from your SkyDrive. You can easily share docs with friends and work on them together. When you're done, save them to SkyDrive, and they'll be with you wherever you are. If you don't have Office 2013, you can still access, work on, and share Office docs in SkyDrive.com right in your browser with free Office Web Apps."

     

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/skydrive/downloa

    http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/web-apps/redir/XT103329178.aspx

  • Reply 49 of 120
    patsupatsu Posts: 429member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post

     

     

    The thing is - if Apple creates a productivity suite that makes ALL users happy, power users as well as the more casual user, the suite will end up like MS Office (and only power users will be truly happy). It will be better for the vast majority if iWorks never catches up with MS Office. The real power users should continue to use Office and the rest of us will gravitate towards our suite of preference. 


     

    Yes, but it doesn't mean iWorks cannot have more power. ^_^



    The apps have just been rewritten. They can always review the next set of features to see if they can add more *benefits* (not bullet point features) to the base. May be it can be simpler and more powerful at the same time.

     

    The current UI is a great start. Better than the old UI, but like Steve Jobs say, don't stop. Stay hungry, stay foolish.

  • Reply 50 of 120
    patsupatsu Posts: 429member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    You do not have to pay for Office web apps, it is a free service. Office 365 is for a business, you are a consumer, the apps are free to use.

     

    "With SkyDrive and Office 2013, you can open and work on your Word, Excel, and other Office documents from your SkyDrive. You can easily share docs with friends and work on them together. When you're done, save them to SkyDrive, and they'll be with you wherever you are. If you don't have Office 2013, you can still access, work on, and share Office docs in SkyDrive.com right in your browser with free Office Web Apps."

     

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/skydrive/downloa

    http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/web-apps/redir/XT103329178.aspx


     

    Apple probably have better control of its future by having a great iWorks and iLife suite (and Maps and who knows what else).

  • Reply 51 of 120
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post

     

    So it seems you didn't actually read the context of my statement which was someone stating "The Surface is beginning to sound better and better.." So unless these Web apps required a Surface to use them, I'm failing to understand their statement hence my question.

     

    Also, how exactly am I being a fanboy by not caring about an office suite? Nothing in my life is going to be improved by trying Office Web Apps for 5 minutes. That this seems to rile you up and get your frothing at the mouth so much is simply an amusing side effect.


    Fine but you rather stay in this thread about Office apps not caring about Office apps, doesn't make sense to me. Oh, but it's okay to not like it and bitch about it, I see. I did read your post and it made no sense. What company in their right mind would spend a fortune building online apps if it was only going to be available on one platform that no one is buying.

  • Reply 52 of 120
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 1,875member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

     

    Across iPhone.  iPad.  (There's 200 million in sales nearly next year, just there!)  That's some pressure from users to bring in their own kit!

     


     

    Fiscal 2013 saw iPhone+iPad+iPod touch sales at almost 240 million.

     

    I think next year it'll be upwards of 275 million iOS sales.

  • Reply 53 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    Fine but you rather stay in this thread about Office apps not caring about Office apps, doesn't make sense to me.


    Yes, I will comment in any thread I want to. Take some valium and get over yourself.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    Oh, but it's okay to not like it and bitch about it, I see. I did read your post and it made no sense. What company in their right mind would spend a fortune building online apps if it was only going to be available on one platform that no one is buying.

     


    Yes, the statement I responded to did make no sense. Hence why my question was asking about the absurd logical leap of an article about Office Web Apps which makes buying a Surface to look "better and better". It would be like saying "A Mac is looking better and better" in reference to an article about Adobe Cloud.

  • Reply 54 of 120
    patsupatsu Posts: 429member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    Your serious right, I'm sure Numbers is okay for the average consumer to do their home budget on but the second you require a scripting language to calculate the PnL from thousands of trades from different exchanges in which the source information comes from 15 different sources ranging from XML, comma separated files to password protected Oracle DB that are located on remote servers across the Atlantic, Number starts to look like a toy real fast, So please clarify what you mean.


     

    Numbers is not meant to do those things. 



    Use Office or web tech to do that. I have migrated a few sophisticated real-time reporting systems to web-based technologies completely and cheaply.

  • Reply 55 of 120
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,716member
    quadra 610 wrote: »
    I thought MS didn't see iWork as a threat?

    After all, isn't Office supposed to be MS' core business?

    Other blog sites like ArsTechnica, Engadget and such are reporting this as Microsoft's attempt to answer Google Apps rather than iWork. Perhaps it's a bit of both since MS is lagging behind both companies recent efforts.
  • Reply 56 of 120
    patsupatsu Posts: 429member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Other blog sites like ArsTechnica, Engadget and such are reporting this as Microsoft's attempt to answer Google Apps rather than iWork. Perhaps it's a bit of both since MS is lagging behind both companies recent efforts.

     

    Google also made their business apps free in response to free iWorks. So it's driven primarily by iWorks.

     

    iPads is a great threat.

  • Reply 57 of 120
    go to application folder > iwork's 09 if you think you want to revert
  • Reply 58 of 120
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    Your serious right, I'm sure Numbers is okay for the average consumer to do their home budget on but the second you require a scripting language to calculate the PnL from thousands of trades from different exchanges in which the source information comes from 15 different sources ranging from XML, comma separated files to password protected Oracle DB that are located on remote servers across the Atlantic, Number starts to look like a toy real fast, So please clarify what you mean.


    Are you serious? If you are doing that much work, and it is so important, why the hell are you doing it in excel?

     

    Any serious business or businessperson that has those requirements would have a program written for them that would do all of these things, live, with pretty graphs and colours.

    To do these things in a spreadsheet is absurd and stupid.

  • Reply 59 of 120
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patsu View Post

     

     

    Numbers is not meant to do those things. 



    Use Office or web tech to do that. I have migrated a few sophisticated real-time reporting systems to web-based technologies completely and cheaply.


    I'm fully aware, I was replying to a statement that was questioning the use of Excel over Numbers as in why would you use Excel over Numbers.

  • Reply 60 of 120
    virtuavirtua Posts: 207member
    Think my post got lost amongst the testosterone here.

    Why haven't microsoft upgrade office 2011 for the mac to the current version. Even having 365 means having office 2011.

    Now that would be a start.
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