And this is why more jurors need to join the Fully Informed Jury Association. Ignore the judge's instructions and award treble damages because they have admitted willful infringement with the intent to ride Apple's coattails without doing the hard work to create their own products.
It's terribly frustrating and disappointing that companies like Samsung knowingly break the law, steal intellectual property/cheat etc, Knowing it does not matter because in the end the things they stole are worth so much more than the monetary punishments they face. Although arguably extreme, those top tier business men CEO's etc who make these decisions to break the laws should be faced with criminal charges not just pay money and walk away. Accountability.
It's terribly frustrating and disappointing that companies like Samsung knowingly break the law, steal intellectual property/cheat etc, Knowing it does not matter because in the end the things they stole are worth so much more than the monetary punishments they face. Although arguably extreme, those top tier business men CEO's etc who make these decisions to break the laws should be faced with criminal charges not just pay money and walk away. Accountability.
I recall reading somewhere a post that said something like "It's like Samsung gets caught stealing $10Million dollars from a bank, paying a fine of $100,000 and getting to keep the rest of the money.".
Yes treble damages are off the table. Judge Koh ruled a few months back there was no willfullness.
Confirmed, thanks. I see that the jury originally deemed it willful infringement, but Judge Lucy Koh reversed the jury's finding 5 months later. According to Foss Patents, it was reversed because Samsung "had reasons to believe that what it was doing was legal." However, in my lay opinion, because this is a civil suit, not a criminal trial, it only needs to be more likely than not that Samsung infringed willfully. In other words, willful infringement can be ruled even if some (less than half) of the defendant's thoughts were that it was legal. How the judge figured the preponderance of the evidence was in Samsung's favor, I don't understand--particularly when her actions meant reversing a jury's decision that found it was willful.
It seems Judge Koh's decision on willful infringement relies completely on Samsung being a poor judge of what's patentable--Samsung thought (or at least said so after the fact! ) that Apple's patents would be invalidated. How is that an excuse under the law? Is it excusable just because every Android handset maker was involved in gang banging Apple for its revolutionary, patented technology? Of course, all of these companies couldn't be wrong, could they? Or were they all just desperate?
This wouldn't even be newsworthy were it not for the crowd frothing at the mouth about ~evil samsung~. The trial to determine whether they copied Apple is over, and the result is that they did. The legal system has decided that they broke the law, and there's no point in them saying otherwise because that's not what this is about.
This trial is about damages. Nothing more, nothing less.
If they admitted the guilt like this, it is not far from 'willfulness', grounds for increasing the penalty. Why Judge Koh did not 3x the final figure remains a mystery. And a source of debate I think in legal circles. Can she still do this in this new trial?
If they admitted the guilt like this, it is not far from 'willfulness', grounds for increasing the penalty.
Why Judge Koh did not 3x the final figure remains a mystery. And a source of debate I think in legal circles. Can she still do this in this new trial?
What Samsung's statement did was acknowledge that they had already been deemed to infringe so that was no longer at issue. This re-trial only has to do with how much Samsung will owe, not whether the IP was used without permission. That was settled in the first trial so their counsel isn't addressing whether Samsung believes they should have been found guilty or not. That's moot until the expected appeal.
I disagree. Samsung could have said the same thing they always say when the hammer falls on them. "We vehemently deny the allegations and will vigorously defend ourselves against them."
But no, they essentially just admitted "Yep, we did it... but...but...but..." and the apologists here are trying to make it out to be something else.
Like it or not, based on the amount Samsung profited all these years and the amount it will continue to make, a 400 million verdict or so will seem like a minor price to pay.
I disagree. Samsung could have said the same thing they always say when the hammer falls on them. "We vehemently deny the allegations and will vigorously defend ourselves against them."
But no, they essentially just admitted "Yep, we did it... but...but...but..." and the apologists here are trying to make it out to be something else.
Deny what allegations? There aren't any to deny. This is a limited retrial concerning only damages.
And repeating for those that think I sympathize with Sammy: I don't. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and just willing to roll the dice in spite of it.
Can American Losers (Patent Judges) now issue a Ban on all New Future Samsung Products because of such act? Let them get reviewed first and if they are not found guilty after thorough review by US Companies, release them!
So by Default---> Ban Shamesung Products! US People should show a middle finger to that whole Country who needs US help in every other way from Military help to Money (by Cheating)!
Deny what allegations? There aren't any to deny. This is a limited retrial concerning only damages.
And repeating for those that think I sympathize with Sammy: I don't. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and just willing to roll the dice in spite of it.
Yes, a foolish risk on their part. One which will be revisited once the 'Rockstar' trial starts.
Yes, a foolish risk on their part. One which will be revisited once the 'Rockstar' trial starts.
I can't imagine that one would cost Samsung anymore than a few hundred million at worst. Rockstar can't claim lost profits. They don't have any practicing products. Even showing willful infringement is probably next to impossible.
And they are the only Android phone maker that is allegedly making a profit! Wow, what a loser of a game to be in for these manufacturers. Google is the only one reaping a benefit.
These companies would've been better off forming a joint consortium to develop a phone OS to compete with iPhone than get tangled up in Android.
And there is the real missing element in all this. Scamsung could have made an identical looking phone to an iPhone but it would only have been a paper weight if not for the fact it ran yet another equally ripped off IP of Apple's, Android OS itself. I hope we see Google swinging in the wind one day.
What Samsung's statement did was acknowledge that they had already been deemed to infringe so that was no longer at issue. This re-trial only has to do with how much Samsung will owe, not whether the IP was used without permission. That was settled in the first trial so their counsel isn't addressing whether Samsung believes they should have been found guilty or not. That's moot until the expected appeal.
No, that's not what was said.
"This is a case not where we're disputing that the 13 phones contain some elements of Apple's property,
He didn't say the jury has decided & we will abide by their decision. He said there is no dispute that these phones contained some elements of Apple's property.I have no idea why you think you can spin that.
Comments
But but but Apple needs competition. Copying is justified. Competition is good for everyone, especially the copiers. /s
Lol. Yea that works too.
Just noting for the record that this is a six day trial.
The results of this trial and the Rockstar Consortium trial in the near future will turn Samsung into a quivering blob of goo.
It's terribly frustrating and disappointing that companies like Samsung knowingly break the law, steal intellectual property/cheat etc, Knowing it does not matter because in the end the things they stole are worth so much more than the monetary punishments they face. Although arguably extreme, those top tier business men CEO's etc who make these decisions to break the laws should be faced with criminal charges not just pay money and walk away. Accountability.
I recall reading somewhere a post that said something like "It's like Samsung gets caught stealing $10Million dollars from a bank, paying a fine of $100,000 and getting to keep the rest of the money.".
That pretty much sums-up what Scamsung is doing.
Yes treble damages are off the table. Judge Koh ruled a few months back there was no willfullness.
Confirmed, thanks. I see that the jury originally deemed it willful infringement, but Judge Lucy Koh reversed the jury's finding 5 months later. According to Foss Patents, it was reversed because Samsung "had reasons to believe that what it was doing was legal." However, in my lay opinion, because this is a civil suit, not a criminal trial, it only needs to be more likely than not that Samsung infringed willfully. In other words, willful infringement can be ruled even if some (less than half) of the defendant's thoughts were that it was legal. How the judge figured the preponderance of the evidence was in Samsung's favor, I don't understand--particularly when her actions meant reversing a jury's decision that found it was willful.
http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/01/judge-overrules-jury-finds-samsungs.html
It seems Judge Koh's decision on willful infringement relies completely on Samsung being a poor judge of what's patentable--Samsung thought (or at least said so after the fact!
) that Apple's patents would be invalidated. How is that an excuse under the law? Is it excusable just because every Android handset maker was involved in gang banging Apple for its revolutionary, patented technology? Of course, all of these companies couldn't be wrong, could they? Or were they all just desperate?
This wouldn't even be newsworthy were it not for the crowd frothing at the mouth about ~evil samsung~. The trial to determine whether they copied Apple is over, and the result is that they did. The legal system has decided that they broke the law, and there's no point in them saying otherwise because that's not what this is about.
This trial is about damages. Nothing more, nothing less.
Why Judge Koh did not 3x the final figure remains a mystery. And a source of debate I think in legal circles.
Can she still do this in this new trial?
What Samsung's statement did was acknowledge that they had already been deemed to infringe so that was no longer at issue. This re-trial only has to do with how much Samsung will owe, not whether the IP was used without permission. That was settled in the first trial so their counsel isn't addressing whether Samsung believes they should have been found guilty or not. That's moot until the expected appeal.
I disagree. Samsung could have said the same thing they always say when the hammer falls on them. "We vehemently deny the allegations and will vigorously defend ourselves against them."
But no, they essentially just admitted "Yep, we did it... but...but...but..." and the apologists here are trying to make it out to be something else.
Deny what allegations? There aren't any to deny. This is a limited retrial concerning only damages.
And repeating for those that think I sympathize with Sammy: I don't. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and just willing to roll the dice in spite of it.
Can American Losers (Patent Judges) now issue a Ban on all New Future Samsung Products because of such act? Let them get reviewed first and if they are not found guilty after thorough review by US Companies, release them!
So by Default---> Ban Shamesung Products! US People should show a middle finger to that whole Country who needs US help in every other way from Military help to Money (by Cheating)!
Deny what allegations? There aren't any to deny. This is a limited retrial concerning only damages.
And repeating for those that think I sympathize with Sammy: I don't. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and just willing to roll the dice in spite of it.
Yes, a foolish risk on their part. One which will be revisited once the 'Rockstar' trial starts.
Pretty sure Apple will get a huge sum of money from Samsung.
I can't imagine that one would cost Samsung anymore than a few hundred million at worst. Rockstar can't claim lost profits. They don't have any practicing products. Even showing willful infringement is probably next to impossible.
I'm pretty sure apple would have sold just a BIT more than 360,000 phones extra were it not for Samsung's knockoff products.
Apple is the one that came up with this number.And there is the real missing element in all this. Scamsung could have made an identical looking phone to an iPhone but it would only have been a paper weight if not for the fact it ran yet another equally ripped off IP of Apple's, Android OS itself. I hope we see Google swinging in the wind one day.
What Samsung's statement did was acknowledge that they had already been deemed to infringe so that was no longer at issue. This re-trial only has to do with how much Samsung will owe, not whether the IP was used without permission. That was settled in the first trial so their counsel isn't addressing whether Samsung believes they should have been found guilty or not. That's moot until the expected appeal.
No, that's not what was said.
"This is a case not where we're disputing that the 13 phones contain some elements of Apple's property,
He didn't say the jury has decided & we will abide by their decision. He said there is no dispute that these phones contained some elements of Apple's property. I have no idea why you think you can spin that.