Review: Apple's second-generation iPad mini with Retina display

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  • Reply 101 of 148
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    flaneur wrote: »
    Was it you that said this doesn't look like an Apple product? I'd have to agree with that too, since their other screens make sRGB. I suspect there's something inherently difficult about making this particular 326ppi panel that they're demanding from suppliers who haven't made them before, yet they're under pressure to deliver a retina mini now.

    If one bad pixel would cause the panel to be considered bad then it really grows exponentially with pixel count. For example, if you have a 1 in a million chance of having one bad pixel then you'll get about 2 good display for every bad display for the iPhone 5S since there about 750k pixels, but you'll rarely ever have a good Retina iPad Mini display since there are over 3 million pixels per display.

    I am pleasantly surprised they were able to release it this year but I do think the display is the issue so they may be lowering their standards a bit. I don't think the reason is full sRGB is too much of a power suck. I do think the new iPad Mini is a much better choice for users at the new price over the iPad 2 or if they kept it as 1024x768 and added an A6 chip, and I would guess next year this will be improved.

    I don't think we've seen this before with an Apple display but we have seen the iPod Touch not get the IPS display when it went Retina and did see the iPad 3 get much thicker and heavier when it went Retina.
    I don't think we're getting anywhere near the real story here. I'm waiting for Raymond Soneira's report. I don't think we can rule out the IGZO factor yet. Something besides better battery density and a more efficient processor might well be at work to suppress the trade offs in doing a retina screen.

    There is also the 7% lower clock rate that helps with battery life and possibly the 2 minute threshold throttling that is present on the iPhone 5S but not the iPad Air. YoY the GPU is much improved for efficiency but since the iPad Air has it and Anand believes they are all clocking at 450MHz it's a comparable factor. Outside the processor on the SoC there is that clever 4MB cache that may be a huge gain for power efficiency. Add that to the single backlight when compared to the iPad 3 and the battery increasing in the iPad Air by nearly 50% I think all those factors add up to it being unlikely IGZO being included in at least the new iPad Mini.
  • Reply 102 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fallenjt View Post

     

    Maybe Apple should've priced Retina iPad Mini at $349 or so to make it more affordable, but it still sells like a hotcake anyway at current price.

    First, if you compare Nexus 7 with Retina iPad Mini, you have to look at screen estate too, meaning iPad Mini screen estate is a lot more than Nexus 7, almost 40% larger.

    Secondly, battery life: in the real life testing, retina iPad Mini can last as much as 2x more than Nexus 7 (11.75 hrs on iPad vs 6 hrs on Nexus 7 for 720p video).

    Lastly, resale value: a year from now, you can still sell a retina iPad mini on eBay for at least $300 where you probably get <$150 for Nexus 7. So your depreciation on the iPad is <$99/year while it's at least $79 for Nexus 7. 

    That $20 difference cannot justify with iPad better build quality, iOS ecosystem, reliability, apps store and all of the above, so you are actually better off with iPad than Nexus if you're not OS hardcore (fandroid or iSheep) but a normal user (95% of tablet owners).


    Where are you getting your battery life figures? Anandtech recently released its battery tests for the iPad mini. (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7519/apple-ipad-mini-with-retina-display-reviewed/5)

  • Reply 103 of 148
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    akqies wrote: »
    If one bad pixel would cause the panel to be considered bad then it really grows exponentially with pixel count. For example, if you have a 1 in a million chance of having one bad pixel then you'll get about 2 good display for every bad display for the iPhone 5S since there about 750k pixels, but you'll rarely ever have a good Retina iPad Mini display since there are over 3 million pixels per display.

    I am pleasantly surprised they were able to release it this year but I do think the display is the issue so they may be lowering their standards a bit. I don't think the reason is full sRGB is too much of a power suck. I do think the new iPad Mini is a much better choice for users at the new price over the iPad 2 or if they kept it as 1024x768 and added an A6 chip, and I would guess next year this will be improved.

    I don't think we've seen this before with an Apple display but we have seen the iPod Touch not get the IPS display when it went Retina and did see the iPad 3 get much thicker and heavier when it went Retina.
    There is also the 7% lower clock rate that helps with battery life and possibly the 2 minute threshold throttling that is present on the iPhone 5S but not the iPad Air. YoY the GPU is much improved for efficiency but since the iPad Air has it and Anand believes they are all clocking at 450MHz it's a comparable factor. Outside the processor on the SoC there is that clever 4MB cache that may be a huge gain for power efficiency. Add that to the single backlight when compared to the iPad 3 and the battery increasing in the iPad Air by nearly 50% I think all those factors add up to it being unlikely IGZO being included in at least the new iPad Mini.

    Good work, thanks. Still not explained though is why they would have to "lower their standards a bit."
  • Reply 104 of 148
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    flaneur wrote: »
    Good work, thanks. Still not explained though is why they would have to "lower their standards a bit."

    I used the pixels as an example because I thought it would be easier, but for gamut and color accuracy I'd think there might be an acceptable window that they might have widened to allow for a certain yield.

    Gruber says the display is of equivialnt or identical quality and he didn't get the image retention issue some are getting so he may have gotten a good panel that could as good as the iPad Air. I wouldn't go by Gruber's word alone and while I trust the results of AnandTech I wouldn't go by the test of a single unit either.

    Based on the AnandTech review I did decide to purchase the new iPad Mini, worts and all, but it's not like that IPS display in the Retina iPad Mini is even close to being of the same level as most of our Macs and WinPCs with TN displays. All things considered this seems like an update for me.
  • Reply 105 of 148
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    slurpy wrote: »
    Not sure how you managed to rack up 483 posts on this forum, when literally every single on of your posts is moronic and without a shred of common sense. Incredible. 

    You read all my posts? You are a liar!
  • Reply 106 of 148
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post





    You read all my posts? You are a liar!

    obviously if he did he would be too dumb to talk.

  • Reply 107 of 148
    herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,227member
    sog35 wrote: »
    I CAN'T STAND THIS BULL SHEET!!!

    For the last time stop comparing the iPadMini to the Nexus7/KindleHD7!  Those tablets are MUCH smaller.  Just stop it.  You need to compare the mini to the Nexus10 and HDX8.9.  This is seriously pissing me off.  I own a Kindle7 and its way smaller than the mini.  To a point that they are not even comparable.

    Nexus 10 - $399
    Kindle HDX 8.9 - $394
    iPadMini R - $399

    So wheres the price difference now?  Add to the fact the Mini will sell for a good $150-$250 if you decide to resell it in a year or two.

    Hmm,
    7.9 - 7 = 0.9"
    10 - 7.9 = 2.1"

    Imo the 7" tablets are closer in size....
  • Reply 108 of 148
    herbapou wrote: »
    Hmm,
    7.9 - 7 = 0.9"
    10 - 7.9 = 2.1"

    Imo the 7" tablets are closer in size....

    These tablets have various aspect ratios so you have measure the display area not simply the diagonal.
  • Reply 109 of 148

    Read about the small color gamut on the iPad rMini!  Anandtech has a detail study of the color gamut and it is the same one that was on the 2012 Mini!  It was the lowest of all the comparisons.  From people who know; for a lousy $4 more; Apple could move to the state-of- the-art large color gamut!  For another $2 more; they could move to the same color gamut as the Air!

     

    Very disappointed in Apple for short cutting this on the rMini!

  • Reply 110 of 148
    harry wild wrote: »
    Read about the small color gamut on the iPad rMini!  Anandtech has a detail study of the color gamut and it is the same one that was on the 2012 Mini!  It was the lowest of all the comparisons.  From people who know; for a lousy $4 more; Apple could move to the state-of- the-art large color gamut!  For another $2 more; they could move to the same color gamut as the Air!

    Very disappointed in Apple for short cutting this on the rMini!

    Your prices, even if accurate, don't seem to consider Apple's volume in any of this. You don't realize supply isn't unlimited, right? There are a lot of decisions and compromises to be made when it comes to producing an item. The argument "Google can do it with the Nexus so Apple can do it" means nothing unless Google is producing at the same volume.

    I ask you, if Apple had to choose between an excellent color gamut on a 1024x768 iPad Mini display or less than ideal color gamut on a Retina display for this year, what choice would you make?
  • Reply 111 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akqies View Post





    Your prices, even if accurate, don't seem to consider Apple's volume in any of this. You don't realize supply isn't unlimited, right? There are a lot of decisions and compromises to be made when it comes to producing an item. The argument "Google can do it with the Nexus so Apple can do it" means nothing unless Google is producing at the same volume.



    I ask you, if Apple had to choose between an excellent color gamut on a 1024x768 iPad Mini display or less than ideal color gamut on a Retina display for this year, what choice would you make?

    Coming from a consumer's or buyer's point of view; I expect Apple in each model to come up with the "best" in technology that they can come up with.  Why does Apple  always have to have a ranking of iPads.  Now the rMini is not only not competitive with the "Air" but is the "bottom" of tablets with tablets like the  Nexus 7, Tegra Note 7 and the Kindle HD Fire 7 ranked much higher then rMini!  

     

  • Reply 112 of 148
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post



    Was it you that said this doesn't look like an Apple product? I'd have to agree with that too, since their other screens make sRGB. I suspect there's something inherently difficult about making this particular 326ppi panel that they're demanding from suppliers who haven't made them before, yet they're under pressure to deliver a retina mini now.

    It's my understanding that the original non-Retina iPad mini had the same reduced gamut.

  • Reply 113 of 148
    harry wild wrote: »
    Now the rMini is not only not competitive with the "Air" but is the "bottom" of tablets with tablets like the  Nexus 7, Tegra Note 7 and the Kindle HD Fire 7 ranked much higher then rMini!  


    No it's not. You can't take one aspect of one component and make a sweeping decision. I bought a Retina iPad Mini AFTER, almost immediately AFTER, reading AnandTech's review because it was the most ideal tablet choice for my needs. If it had been non-Retina for another year I would not have bought it.
  • Reply 114 of 148
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    ascii wrote: »
    It's my understanding that the original non-Retina iPad mini had the same reduced gamut.

    I missed that last year. So did the iPad 2 fall short. Here's Raymond Soneira:

    "The iPad mini and iPad 2 both have a reduced Color Gamut due to weak Red and Blue primaries that result from the White LED Backlighting. It's an intentional tradeoff made to increase screen brightness, power efficiency and battery run time. The new iPad corrects these deficiencies and has a much larger Gamut that is an excellent match to the Standard so it can produce accurate colors as long as there is also an accurate Standard White Point and Standard Intensity Scale."

    I searched under "iPad mini color gamut."

    http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_11.html

    So it may be the backlight, and that's a bit of a shame, since it's for battery life. I'd rather have the color.
  • Reply 115 of 148

    4.5 outta 5? ARE YOU KIDDING??

     

    Retina display.

    World first 64bit SoC.

    Industry-wide cameras.

    4:3.

    All apps scale up and scale down for great usage.

    100's of accessories already available.

    FAST!!!

    Industry-leading build quality.

     

    Price goes up for better components. Law of the universe!

    Limited supply? No! Really?? Competitors don't have such an issue until the END of their product cycles because...

    Touch ID? The thing everyone has been decrying as a gimmick?

     

    Too bad a plasticky, cheap, slow, poorly stocked for apps and devoid of accessories device gets the same score.

  • Reply 116 of 148
    akqies wrote: »
    No it's not. You can't take one aspect of one component and make a sweeping decision. I bought a Retina iPad Mini AFTER almost immediately AFTER reading AnandTech's review because it was the most ideal tablet choice for my needs. If it had been non-Retina for another year I would not have bought it.

    He won't understand you unless you rephrase that in terms of a benchmark. ;)
  • Reply 117 of 148
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member

    I compared the rear cameras at Apple store.  Pointing at the table, the retina mini seems producing sharper image than the mini.

  • Reply 118 of 148
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    flaneur wrote: »
    It's an honest problem for any manufacturer that strives to be the best, it seems to me. I'm sure it pains a bunch of people at Apple that these LG displays aren't totally there.

    Regarding the LG displays it's reported they're going to be used on the next Nexus 10 being released in just a few more days. It could be interesting comparing how LG displays perform on the two Apple and Google devices. Perhaps they'll look pretty much the same, dunno.
  • Reply 119 of 148
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    Now that I've seen what Dr. Soneira said about previous short-gamut iPads, it looks like Apple has made one of their trade-off decisions. As Steve said, all products are "packages of emphasis," meaning you have to cut some things you might want in order to get the basic view of your product underway.

    In this case, it was battery life using white backlighting vs. better color gamut. Not that I understand the white light business. Awaiting more info on that, especially the DisplayMate review.

    Meanwhile, the other attributes of the mini don't make me regret one bit having got one.
  • Reply 120 of 148
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post



    Now that I've seen what Dr. Soneira said about previous short-gamut iPads, it looks like Apple has made one of their trade-off decisions. As Steve said, all products are "packages of emphasis," meaning you have to cut some things you might want in order to get the basic view of your product underway.



    In this case, it was battery life using white backlighting vs. better color gamut. Not that I understand the white light business. Awaiting more info on that, especially the DisplayMate review.



    Meanwhile, the other attributes of the mini don't make me regret one bit having got one.

    Low-End Google Nexus 7 Carries $152 BOM, Teardown Reveals 

    http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Low-End-Google-Nexus-7-Carries-$157-BOM-Teardown-Reveals.aspx

    Low-End iPad mini Carries $188 Bill of Materials, Teardown Analysis Reveals 

    http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Low-End-iPad-mini-Carries-188-Bill-of-Materials-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx

    This is iPad mini not retina mini.

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