I was working at Honeywell until a few months ago and let me tell you one thing: they are TOTALLY in MicroSoft's hands. Every server and appliction we made were for NT and 2000 and now XP.
PopSci often puts Mac desktops onto PC screens seeing that they use Macs for the layout of the mag.
timing is everything. people might not be ready to accept a tablet computer. i think we will see keyboards for a LONG time. writing on a screen is not nearly as precise as on paper.
give it atleast 2 years and then we may see tablets become more mainstream
remember that there are tablets ALREADY out there and they aren't doing well when compared to overall computer sales.
<strong>So what do you want "Your" sub-notebook to do...
If you only shop in Apple stores you may never find what you are looking for.</strong><hr></blockquote>
MrBillData: It's not as easy to look on the Wintel side as you make it sound. Hardware (i.e. a small and light subnotebook) is only part of my decisionmaking process. Software, most importantly the OS, is the other vital factor.
Even though the stability and useability of Windows has improved over the years, it is still a nightmare of a user interface. I work on Windows machines regularly, sometimes longer than on my Mac. But the fact remains that I am not nearly as comfortable working in Windows than working with OS 9 or OS X (despite their respective shortcomings).
Even though moving over to the Wintel side would give me significantly more choice in both hardware and applications, I would not be able to choose the OS I want. For now, Wintel is not an option for me.
PS: As you cane see from my signature, my conclusion under current circumstances (i.e. current hardware and software availability) is that an iBook (Dual USB) is by far my best choice.
[quote]Originally posted by MrBillData:
<strong>I hope that you keep looking, you'll find it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As those who have known me for a while will tell you, I am constantly evaluating my options. I imagine that it will be significantly tougher to justify an all-Mac setup in my home when I join a Windows only work environment permanently next year. I can easily imagine that I will get the high end Sony SR series to take work home at that time. But not for now.
<strong>Tablets in their current form are garbage. Plain and simple. The ONLY people buying them are people in specialized areas who need to have a mobile data input/viewing device. ... they still won't sell well because they'll be completely outclassed by good old pen and paper. It's cheap, it goes anywhere, and it feels natural Go ahead and actually try to write on a touch screen. OK for brief notes, a total headache for anything else.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Matsu: It's a pleasure to see such a well-reasoned post from you. I wholehearedly agree that the pen interface will never replace the keyboard completely. Even if writing on a tablet became as comfortable as writing on paper, the fact would remain that any reasonably good typist types faster than 99 percent of the population can write with a pen.
<strong>MrBillData, do you own a tablet?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Aquatik: That's a good question to ask. In fact, I bet you anything that Apple has asked this very question of many consumers (or at least its market research people). As Matsu pointed out, the demand for tablets has been limited to vertical markets (e.g. shipping and medicine). For now such markets are too small to warrant interest from Apple.
You need more than a few people to buy your products. Apple needs to sell millions, or at least hundreds of thousands, of its iMacs, iBooks, PowerMacs, PowerBooks and iPods to reach the high margins which shareholders desire. If it only took a market of a small group to warrant a product, Apple would have produced a sub-PowerBook with a Duo-style dock a long time ago.
Escher
PS for Aquatik: When you want to edit your message, click on the edit button, not the reply button. Otherwise you'll get a double post like above.
Actually I find it quite humorous that there is so much negativity about tablets from this Apple group. If it wasn't for Apple there wouldn't be so many of us that want one. The Newton was an Apple product. It was more of a tablet than a PDA. Of course there was also the Apple Emate(I am using mine to write this), that is essentally a tablet with a keyboard.
Yes, Yes, everyone says "Apple was just to ahead of technology" and lack of sales killed them off. But that is a good sign of a technology leader. Henry Ford wasn't the first to build a car, but he is remembered for getting lots of people to buy his. It seems that Apple had a great idea back then because there are millions of PDA/Tablet devices in use today. Sadly very few of them today have the Apple Logo on them.
Personally I think the Pacebook(http://www.paceblade.com/new/index.html) will be good competition for Apple on the Windows side. It is super lite and it can be used like a laptop or a Tablet. Unlike PDAs where one writes a letter at a time, you use it like a sheet of page(just like the Newton/Emate can).
I still think someone would make alot of money if they made a SoftMacOS for PCs. The toolbox macro agrument is just an excuse. PC hardware is going places that Apple just can not afford to be in. Apple should stick with making the best affordable operating system in the Universe and leave the hardware to people like Sony.
And thats all I have to say in your quest for a more portable computer.
To me its obvious that there is a market out there for an apple sub note, and with inkwell, airport, and bluetooth i think that apple has something in mind. I doubt that they would make an all new catagory for the product so perhaps we'll see such a device at macworld sf or ny that replaces the curent ibook.
I would guess that it would have a 12.2in screen or maybe a 14 in
most likely a g3 processor
*innovative design
heck there might even be an imac or something where you pick up the monitor off of the stand and can wonder around the house and write on it.
The problem with a tablet is that there is no efficient means of user input. Handwriting recognition is painfully slow compared to using even a miniature keyboard, and voice input is simply awkward and impractical in most situations. Vocal input means no background music, no public places, and talking like a dork so the computer can understand you...this isn't star trek where the ship computer recognizes even Dr. Mcoy's drawl.
So match the optimal means for input with a tablet, and you've got a tablet with a keyboard, which is a laptop, which are very popular and come in many sizes. Laptops are so small today that there is little reason to buy only a tablet, since most people would rather have the extra functionality of a keyboard attached to their LCD display.
There are virtually no situations where a tablet would be superior to a laptop, in fact I can think of NONE. Perhaps one may want to dispense with the optical drive because they don't like listening to music or watching movies, in which case they probably wouldn't want a tablet anyways.
The only market a tablet could conceivably do well in is the "Sharper Image" market, made up of people who buy gadgets to impress their friends. But the cube proved that this market is not large enough to sustain an Apple product. In other words, leave the tablets to Wintel makers, and let Apple make real computers that are useful.
I have to say that I bought the C1 picture book on its second revision (C1XS). Sure it was neat at first. It?s small and light, somewhat storable. Then you start typing and your wrists hurt so bad from trying to make them go 90 degrees to fit in that ridiculous keyboard. If your not typing your waiting for the processor to actually process, especially if you do something it doesn't like and freezes. I know a lot of people think, oh cool, I'll carry this around and do this and that.. not really the case (at least in my experience). You have to carry everything like the DVD drive, the floppy drive, the ethernet adaptor, and a couple of extra batteries because you can be sure it will die after 2 hours (I know because I had 2, yes two double capacity and the included single capacity batteries). With all the money I spent I could have had a fully loaded PM tower, and that would have brought me way more functionality. The DVD drive alone was $399 if memory recalls, and it never once played a movie smoothly without jittering or picture going black for a second, especially on the plane trips when the crappy headphone amplifier couldn?t overcome the whine of the engines on the plane. I just thought, oh this will save me so much time, I can whip it out, enter my quicken checkbook, make changes, word process on existing documents when new ideas come to mind, or watch a movie if I?m waiting for something. None of it happened for me, just waiting for it to start up was brutal enough to make me think twice about jotting down something, and if I needed it later, sorry, can?t sacrifice battery life before I get back home to charge it. I?m sure there are a couple of you guys here that would really get a good use out of something so small, but I think, to be honest, either your in for a penny in for a pound and you buy the real thing (a PB) or you go for something like I did afterwards like a Sony CLIE or palm pilot that you CAN actually quickly access data and organize with. Plus there is something nobody has really paid attention too, it runs winBLOWs which is anything but useful.
The only market a tablet could conceivably do well in is the "Sharper Image" market, made up of people who buy gadgets to impress their friends. But the cube proved that this market is not large enough to sustain an Apple product. In other words, leave the tablets to Wintel makers, and let Apple make real computers that are useful. <hr></blockquote>
Exactly, there isn't any need for one except cool factor, and cool factor doesn't make that much money, functionality does.
Comments
MrBillData, do you [/i]own a tablet?
No, because Apple does not make one.
They also do not make a sub-notebook.
It's obvious that there are people that will pay good money for them though.
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</p>
PopSci often puts Mac desktops onto PC screens seeing that they use Macs for the layout of the mag.
Sorry to let you down.
It is very similar to the Sony in Size.
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</p>
I take those who are products of Sony, and unto them break into dozens of pieces for they are the ugly.
Pres
the newton was the future
timing is everything. people might not be ready to accept a tablet computer. i think we will see keyboards for a LONG time. writing on a screen is not nearly as precise as on paper.
give it atleast 2 years and then we may see tablets become more mainstream
remember that there are tablets ALREADY out there and they aren't doing well when compared to overall computer sales.
patience people!
<strong>So what do you want "Your" sub-notebook to do...
If you only shop in Apple stores you may never find what you are looking for.</strong><hr></blockquote>
MrBillData: It's not as easy to look on the Wintel side as you make it sound. Hardware (i.e. a small and light subnotebook) is only part of my decisionmaking process. Software, most importantly the OS, is the other vital factor.
Even though the stability and useability of Windows has improved over the years, it is still a nightmare of a user interface. I work on Windows machines regularly, sometimes longer than on my Mac. But the fact remains that I am not nearly as comfortable working in Windows than working with OS 9 or OS X (despite their respective shortcomings).
Even though moving over to the Wintel side would give me significantly more choice in both hardware and applications, I would not be able to choose the OS I want. For now, Wintel is not an option for me.
PS: As you cane see from my signature, my conclusion under current circumstances (i.e. current hardware and software availability) is that an iBook (Dual USB) is by far my best choice.
[quote]Originally posted by MrBillData:
<strong>I hope that you keep looking, you'll find it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As those who have known me for a while will tell you, I am constantly evaluating my options. I imagine that it will be significantly tougher to justify an all-Mac setup in my home when I join a Windows only work environment permanently next year. I can easily imagine that I will get the high end Sony SR series to take work home at that time. But not for now.
Escher
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
<strong>Tablets in their current form are garbage. Plain and simple. The ONLY people buying them are people in specialized areas who need to have a mobile data input/viewing device. ... they still won't sell well because they'll be completely outclassed by good old pen and paper. It's cheap, it goes anywhere, and it feels natural Go ahead and actually try to write on a touch screen. OK for brief notes, a total headache for anything else.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Matsu: It's a pleasure to see such a well-reasoned post from you. I wholehearedly agree that the pen interface will never replace the keyboard completely. Even if writing on a tablet became as comfortable as writing on paper, the fact would remain that any reasonably good typist types faster than 99 percent of the population can write with a pen.
Escher
<strong>MrBillData, do you own a tablet?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Aquatik: That's a good question to ask. In fact, I bet you anything that Apple has asked this very question of many consumers (or at least its market research people). As Matsu pointed out, the demand for tablets has been limited to vertical markets (e.g. shipping and medicine). For now such markets are too small to warrant interest from Apple.
You need more than a few people to buy your products. Apple needs to sell millions, or at least hundreds of thousands, of its iMacs, iBooks, PowerMacs, PowerBooks and iPods to reach the high margins which shareholders desire. If it only took a market of a small group to warrant a product, Apple would have produced a sub-PowerBook with a Duo-style dock a long time ago.
Escher
PS for Aquatik: When you want to edit your message, click on the edit button, not the reply button. Otherwise you'll get a double post like above.
Yes, Yes, everyone says "Apple was just to ahead of technology" and lack of sales killed them off. But that is a good sign of a technology leader. Henry Ford wasn't the first to build a car, but he is remembered for getting lots of people to buy his. It seems that Apple had a great idea back then because there are millions of PDA/Tablet devices in use today. Sadly very few of them today have the Apple Logo on them.
Personally I think the Pacebook(http://www.paceblade.com/new/index.html) will be good competition for Apple on the Windows side. It is super lite and it can be used like a laptop or a Tablet. Unlike PDAs where one writes a letter at a time, you use it like a sheet of page(just like the Newton/Emate can).
I still think someone would make alot of money if they made a SoftMacOS for PCs. The toolbox macro agrument is just an excuse. PC hardware is going places that Apple just can not afford to be in. Apple should stick with making the best affordable operating system in the Universe and leave the hardware to people like Sony.
And thats all I have to say in your quest for a more portable computer.
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</p>
Personally, I like desktop real estate. :cool:
I would guess that it would have a 12.2in screen or maybe a 14 in
most likely a g3 processor
*innovative design
heck there might even be an imac or something where you pick up the monitor off of the stand and can wonder around the house and write on it.
The problem with a tablet is that there is no efficient means of user input. Handwriting recognition is painfully slow compared to using even a miniature keyboard, and voice input is simply awkward and impractical in most situations. Vocal input means no background music, no public places, and talking like a dork so the computer can understand you...this isn't star trek where the ship computer recognizes even Dr. Mcoy's drawl.
So match the optimal means for input with a tablet, and you've got a tablet with a keyboard, which is a laptop, which are very popular and come in many sizes. Laptops are so small today that there is little reason to buy only a tablet, since most people would rather have the extra functionality of a keyboard attached to their LCD display.
There are virtually no situations where a tablet would be superior to a laptop, in fact I can think of NONE. Perhaps one may want to dispense with the optical drive because they don't like listening to music or watching movies, in which case they probably wouldn't want a tablet anyways.
The only market a tablet could conceivably do well in is the "Sharper Image" market, made up of people who buy gadgets to impress their friends. But the cube proved that this market is not large enough to sustain an Apple product. In other words, leave the tablets to Wintel makers, and let Apple make real computers that are useful.
-CFPC
The only market a tablet could conceivably do well in is the "Sharper Image" market, made up of people who buy gadgets to impress their friends. But the cube proved that this market is not large enough to sustain an Apple product. In other words, leave the tablets to Wintel makers, and let Apple make real computers that are useful. <hr></blockquote>
Exactly, there isn't any need for one except cool factor, and cool factor doesn't make that much money, functionality does.
1. DVD movies: Yes, I want to be able to watch movies on my tinyBook.
2. CD-RW: no disk drive necessary.
TKN