Irish school's attempt to replace books with HP tablets results in 'unmitigated disaster'

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  • Reply 121 of 186
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by water cooler View Post







    Sounds like they didn't even negotiated for a pool buy, instead bought them individually, perhaps they know if the oarents go to return it themselves, the generate foot traffic, pollute the air with added trips, I wont trust to send my kids to be educated in that dumb country. Afterall, dont they have a Noble Sir in charge of education?

     

    Dumb country?

     

    Actually Ireland has a pretty good education system with pretty good outcomes.  Amazing how you jump to such a conclusion about an entire country on the basis of the supposed actions of a single school.

  • Reply 122 of 186
    philboogie wrote: »
    While it's the mfgt responsibility to deliver a working product, I'd blame the schools' IT guys. They should've tested this thoroughly, which obviously wasn't the case.


    Well you can't be sure. The IT guys might have been given test models with different quality than the "roll out models". Or when they rolled it out, they tested with installed software, and in production they were "distributing" software. So my guess they were promised by an HP salesman that their "distribution was just as good as iTunes for a local intranet installing apps."

    Indeed, we can't be sure. One thing I am sure of is that I would've handled this better. I would take a test unit, and after approval test a small batch, then a larger batch and so on. I do think IT is to blame here. Yes yes, probably HP/MS as well, but I'm talking 'from my own perspective' here.
    cnocbui wrote: »
    A few weeks ago I had to complete an Irish Income tax return and upload the completed return via the  website.  This process can not be accomplished on an iPad.

    1000
  • Reply 123 of 186
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melgross View Post





    So, maybe you're right about that one thing. But that's not software itself. Some places still require Windows. But you are wrong about everything else.

     

    It's not about Windows.  I prepared my return on my Macbook as they actually had a version of their software for OSX.  The twist was that their website requires that you have Java installed in order to be able to use it.

     

    How was I wrong about everything else when the only part I mentioned disagreeing with was:

    Quote:


     You can browse the web better than on a computer


     

    Which I highlighted in bold to designate the bit I was referring to?

  • Reply 124 of 186
    This might provide some balance to the disaster in the LA Unified School District where students easily bypassed restrictions on the use of iPads issued to them in lieu of textbooks.
    The problem, in both cases, is the unrealistic expectations of school administrators. They really don't understand what they are paying for, not even after an 18 month "investigation."
  • Reply 125 of 186
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,003member
    jfanning wrote: »
    I didn't mean you. I said when non-US people on this site say that Apple are ripping them off, the US answer is, exchange rate, VAT , cost of business etc, etc. Now we have an article that decides to convert the price to US$ and the US people are trying to say US$741 is too expensive you can by an iPad for $699. You can't honestly directly convert these prices as there are a number of different factors influencing them.

    But yes, things are a lot cheaper now, my first Mac Mini cost over $2000, now I can get the same for $1200

    Four years ago, when my daughter was first entering University in London, we were told to buy her Macbook Pro here in the US, because all electronics were more expensive there. In addition, the UK adds 10% to the price, if less than 50% of the value of the device is added there. It would t surprise me if Apple is making a smaller profit in many places overseas.
  • Reply 126 of 186
    The difference between theory (sales pitches) and reality (HP MS in classrooms) is much greater in reality.
  • Reply 127 of 186
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,003member
    cnocbui wrote: »
    It's not about Windows.  I prepared my return on my Macbook as they actually had a version of their software for OSX.  The twist was that their website requires that you have Java installed in order to be able to use it.

    How was I wrong about everything else when the only part I mentioned disagreeing with was:

    Which I highlighted in bold to designate the bit I was referring to?

    Ok, I didn't realize you highlighted that, I thought he had. I stand corrected in that then.
  • Reply 128 of 186
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TomMcIn View Post



    The difference between theory (sales pitches) and reality (HP MS in classrooms) is much greater in reality.

     

    Which is exactly what LA Unified discovered, only it was the roll out of iPads that turned out to be the disaster. At least Ireland realized that tablets in the classroom was an idea not quite ready for prime time, whereas here in the states, we admit defeat by decreasing the 2014 allotment from 135 million to just 45.

  • Reply 129 of 186
    They spent 18 months evaluating and settled on a Windows 8 tablet from HP costing $741? Just imagine how bad their decision would have been it they're rushed it up.
  • Reply 130 of 186
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    The school fell into a trap laid by Microsoft, the illusion of transferring a laptop's use cases to a tablet. The allure of transferring all the existing software investment is part of the attraction. Schools are full of unnecessary proprietary software when there are plenty of open source alternatives like Libreoffice now.

    The dyed in the wool corporate types I know all prophesied that tablets like the Surface would beat the iPad because the were 'proper' PC's in tablet form. Its a mistake, a 'category' error, tablets are not PC's.

    The reality is that the modality of the tablet is quite different from a PC or laptop. Students need laptops to do laptop things, at least with the current level of technology. If all they need to do is read an ebook then nearly any tablet will suffice, and there are many cheaper including some from Apple.

    The Principal of the school is partly to blame for falling into the trap, but the trap has been laid by the vendors who are more culpable because they ought to know better.

    It is not illusion. I have been using ThinkPad Tablet 2 at home for the last 3 months... and it almost completely replaced my laptop. I still carry laptop with me for travels as tablet, while technically can, is too slow for Lightroom... but everything else I use laptop for can be done in acceptable manner.

    Please note, I'm talking about tablet vs. laptop only. I still use desktop at home for demanding tasks and games... so at home, laptop is all but pointless for me right now.

    As for this school. There are many good reasons to go this path. Office works fine on that hardware (and might be requirement in that school). Elitepads have docks with support for 2 monitors, couple of USB ports for desktop keyboard and mouse. And manageability is good from IT support point of view, since tablets are full x86 machines. They can be covered with same group policies school might be applying to other laptops and desktops.

    Problems, as described, seems to be fully on manufacturer side; hardware and drivers' problems. We have selected ThinkPad tablet as our standard Windows tablet option, and haven't experienced none of those. Windows 8.1 update has prolonged wake from sleep time to around 5 seconds, but this problem was sorted with Intel's driver update which was aired within a few weeks since 8.1 release. First tablet we have purchased had problem with one of speakers (crackling sound) which was sorted quickly by Lenovo support. We haven't seen spontaneous sleep, freezing, BSODs or any other problem on these tablets, both our in-house and customers.

    I came across info on other schools that implemented/are implementing Windows tablets (such as http://www.wpcentral.com/schools-windows-8-tablets) and haven't heard of rampart problems such as Irish school is experiencing... so I really wouldn't nail it on platform, but rather on specific OEM. After all, there's a reason HP is not number 1 Windows OEM anymore...
  • Reply 131 of 186

    HP tablets, 'They're Magically Mischievous'!  

     

    "They're always after my lucky charms"

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    /

    /

  • Reply 132 of 186
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

     

     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     



    This feature exists since the beginning of iOS.  I think MS has a lot of time to copy it to Windows 8. 


    Did you research whether it existed elsewhere prior to that? Mouseover notations have existed for many years.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post





    I didn't mean you. I said when non-US people on this site say that Apple are ripping them off, the US answer is, exchange rate, VAT , cost of business etc, etc. Now we have an article that decides to convert the price to US$ and the US people are trying to say US$741 is too expensive you can by an iPad for $699. You can't honestly directly convert these prices as there are a number of different factors influencing them.



    But yes, things are a lot cheaper now, my first Mac Mini cost over $2000, now I can get the same for $1200

     

    That is a very good point. People in the US compare converted prices to US pricing.

  • Reply 133 of 186
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    melgross wrote: »
    But that software isn't qualified for use in a tablet with a small screen, a stylus, and the not so hot typing covers. All that software needs to be requalified for that use, which means extensive rewriting of the UI.

    Do we know their exact usage scenario? HP does have proper docking station for ElitePads, which will provide connection for two standard LCD screens; this could be the reason why school went for ElitePat instead of HP's other tablet, Envy X2 (which has more common keyboard "dock").

    Using tablet in "desktop" mode in classrooms (and maybe at home/dorm), and still having tablet portability in school mess, outdoors or in public transport... does not sound as such a bad idea.
  • Reply 134 of 186
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post

     

     

     

    Did you research whether it existed elsewhere prior to that? Mouseover notations have existed for many years.

     


     

    I don't think mouseover is the same as the one on iOS I talked about. 

  • Reply 135 of 186
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post





    It is not illusion. I have been using ThinkPad Tablet 2 at home for the last 3 months... and it almost completely replaced my laptop. I still carry laptop with me for travels as tablet, while technically can, is too slow for Lightroom... but everything else I use laptop for can be done in acceptable manner.



    Please note, I'm talking about tablet vs. laptop only. I still use desktop at home for demanding tasks and games... so at home, laptop is all but pointless for me right now.



    As for this school. There are many good reasons to go this path. Office works fine on that hardware (and might be requirement in that school). Elitepads have docks with support for 2 monitors, couple of USB ports for desktop keyboard and mouse. And manageability is good from IT support point of view, since tablets are full x86 machines. They can be covered with same group policies school might be applying to other laptops and desktops.



    Problems, as described, seems to be fully on manufacturer side; hardware and drivers' problems. We have selected ThinkPad tablet as our standard Windows tablet option, and haven't experienced none of those. Windows 8.1 update has prolonged wake from sleep time to around 5 seconds, but this problem was sorted with Intel's driver update which was aired within a few weeks since 8.1 release. First tablet we have purchased had problem with one of speakers (crackling sound) which was sorted quickly by Lenovo support. We haven't seen spontaneous sleep, freezing, BSODs or any other problem on these tablets, both our in-house and customers.



    I came across info on other schools that implemented/are implementing Windows tablets (such as http://www.wpcentral.com/schools-windows-8-tablets) and haven't heard of rampart problems such as Irish school is experiencing... so I really wouldn't nail it on platform, but rather on specific OEM. After all, there's a reason HP is not number 1 Windows OEM anymore...

    Yaaayyy, I'm so happy. There's actually someone else on this board who's actually used a Windows 8 tablet. I have one too, the Lenovo, I really enjoy it as well and honestly don't understand all the hatred towards this platform. It's the closest to what my ideal work tablet (didn't say home, the iPad still rules their, so don't lash out) should be, as of yet. I have high hopes for Ubuntu Touch, call me a dreamer.

  • Reply 136 of 186
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     

     

    Dumb country?

     

    Actually Ireland has a pretty good education system with pretty good outcomes.  Amazing how you jump to such a conclusion about an entire country on the basis of the supposed actions of a single school.


    Top 20 educational systems in order according to BBC, of course the Fins win, there's nothing to do up there but read, just kidding;

     

    Finland

    South Korea

    Hong Kong

    Japan

    Singapore

    UK

    Netherlands

    New Zealand

    Switzerland

    Canada

    Ireland

    Denmark

    Australia

    Poland

    Germany

    Belgium

    USA

    Hungary

    Slovakia

    Russia 

  • Reply 137 of 186
    I have seen the same thing happen with Windows PC's vs Macs for years now. Often decisions to go to Windows on PC are made by someone in Administration who has a 'friend' in the organisation that sells the PC's, no surprise there. You scratch my back...
  • Reply 138 of 186
    binkwilder wrote: »
    Windows 8 is a dud.  I have been a fan or Windows for over 2 decades.  I don't understand Win 8.  I also would never buy anything with the HP logo on it.  Android or Apple really should have been their choice.  What rational mind could have come up with Win 8 and HP.  They should be fired.
    They obviously fell for all that Microsoft marketing. :)
  • Reply 139 of 186
    Originally Posted by nikilok View Post

    They obviously fell for all that Microsoft marketing. image

     

    Obviously. The Irish are suckers for synchronized dancing. I mean, look at Riverdance, for heaven’s sake.

     

    Having taken classes in the original content myself, I wish to go on record to state that I recognize fully that Riverdance is neither indicative nor representative of traditional Irish folk dance and by all accounts is sexualized and commercialized far more than its foundational predecessor. The management regrets any and all misinterpretation read into the above statement and what the heck is up with Huddler refusing to format the line spacing of 8pt font correctly?

  • Reply 140 of 186
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Obviously. The Irish are suckers for synchronized dancing. I mean, look at Riverdance, for heaven’s sake.

     

    Having taken classes in the original content myself, I wish to go on record to state that I recognize fully that Riverdance is neither indicative nor representative of traditional Irish folk dance and by all accounts is sexualized and commercialized far more than its foundational predecessor. The management regrets any and all misinterpretation read into the above statement and what the heck is up with Huddler refusing to format the line spacing of 8pt font correctly?




    I wish Michael Flatley would come and take you away right now.

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