Next-gen USB connector a reversible challenge to Apple's Thunderbolt & Lightning

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  • Reply 41 of 69
    If I interpreted the article correctly, if the USB 3.1 is different in design, then they end up being in the same boat as Apple with Lightning. Versions previous to 3.1 (both cables and connectors) will require new adapters. So it's not an automatic "just stick with USB". Could be interesting for Apple as a crack in door.
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  • Reply 42 of 69
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    trubador wrote: »
    If I interpreted the article correctly, if the USB 3.1 is different in design, then they end up being in the same boat as Apple with Lightning. Versions previous to 3.1 (both cables and connectors) will require new adapters. So it's not an automatic "just stick with USB". Could be interesting for Apple as a crack in door.

    It seems pretty much accepted they won't be able to can't make it both reversible and backwards compatible so I think you're right, but unlike Apple with their Lightning connector it may be a long time before this Type-C connector standard is adopted across 100MM devices. It may be an Android-like situation where only the high-end models have the latest tech which new, lower-end devices still using micro-USB.
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  • Reply 43 of 69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post





    You're specifically talking about Android fanboys. They're idiots. Ignore them.

    Actually, for the very 1st time I was specifically referring to other groups .....

     

     

    For your viewing pleasure ;)

     

    http://mac360.com/2013/12/guess-who-is-copying-apple-now/

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  • Reply 44 of 69
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    I sure did, just because you don't remember doesn’t mean that I didn't.

     

    See, you were wrong, though. 

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  • Reply 45 of 69
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    And replace it with what?
    USB: the least universal port ever devised, now in its ninth redesign, eventually to have eleven.

    Just kill it already.
    Least universal??? How so? Pure stupidity. 
    All those will connect in a type A socket? What are you smoking? Or do you have a keychain full of converter dongles?
    Not much to comprehend, unless you fail to understand the definition of universal. You called it the least universal port ever, yet despite the obvious evidence to the contrary, that everything from 30pin and lightning cables to proprietary connectors to USBs own connectors plug into it you seem to feel otherwise. What's the most universal connector then, outside of an electrical socket? VGA? CAT? HDMI and Display port have mini versions too, let's not get started on Firewire...


    The article says this new plug will be similarly sized to the current Micro-B plug. In other words.... small.

    Can you imagine a flash drive with a tiny plug like that?

    Let's hope it's very strong, reliable and durable.

    None of all that means squat...! Fact: Apple does not like connectors on mobile devices.

    Are you with me so far??

    So use the wifi to communicate between devices. Use Airdrop... start thinking like Apple and think outside the wire.
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  • Reply 46 of 69
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    None of all that means squat...! Fact: Apple does not like connectors on mobile devices.

    Are you with me so far??

    So use the wifi to communicate between devices. Use Airdrop... start thinking like Apple and think outside the wire.

    So how to do you suppose we charge it? Fact is that there will always be some type of cord connector, what if there's something wrong with the device and it won't connect wirelessly? How many people had to use a USB cord to fix their Apple TVs after a update bricked it?
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  • Reply 47 of 69
    None of all that means squat...! Fact: Apple does not like connectors on mobile devices.

    Are you with me so far??

    So use the wifi to communicate between devices. Use Airdrop... start thinking like Apple and think outside the wire.

    This proposed next-gen USB port is not only for mobile devices... it's actually the updated version of this:

    700

    Can we really replace this type of functionality with WIFI and Airdrop?

    Not anytime soon. Some sort of physical connection will always be needed and will be commonplace for a long time.
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  • Reply 48 of 69
    So the fact that all of those will connect in a type A socket means that they're not universal?

    When you were a kid, did the "square peg in round hole" toy frustrate you, or did you angrily smash all the shapes into the Type A hole and declare it "universal"?
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  • Reply 49 of 69
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    Least universal??? How so? Pure stupidity. 

    He's right. I hate USB. How many different connectors does one "standard" need? How many cables should one have to carry to connect his or her devices. USB was a great idea. Too bad it's been so poorly implemented and managed.
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  • Reply 50 of 69
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,179member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 1983 View Post



    Another nail in Thunderbolt's coffin.



    Clueless troll

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    What?! In no way does the micro-USB3.0 Type C connector affect Thunderbolt.



    You're going on an assumption that this jerk has even a remote clue what he's talking about.  He's not even worth the effort.

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  • Reply 51 of 69
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    robbyx wrote: »
    He's right. I hate USB. How many different connectors does one "standard" need? How many cables should one have to carry to connect his or her devices. USB was a great idea. Too bad it's been so poorly implemented and managed.

    Needs change so the 'standard' has to change as well.
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  • Reply 52 of 69
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    Needs change so the 'standard' has to change as well.

     

    Agreed.  To a point.  But there's nothing "Universal" about USB.  That's the point.  It's a mess of different cables with different connectors.  I could deal with a few, a larger desktop device connector and a mini connector, for example.  I do a lot of backpacking and carry a Powerfilm solar panel with a USB car charger to charge my Steripen (water purifier), headlamp, portable speaker, and iPhone.  Wouldn't it be nice if I could carry one standard cable?  My portable speaker uses one kind of mini USB, my headlamp and Steripen use another, and the iPhone uses Lightening.  The promise of a universal cable is just that, a promise.  Sure, cables have gotten a lot smaller and easier to manage than back in the early days, but there are still far too many connectors.  I think they need to drop the U from USB.

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  • Reply 53 of 69
    ksecksec Posts: 1,569member
    I am really hoping this is Apple opening up their Lightning Design for USB 3.1 Type C Port.
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  • Reply 54 of 69
    robbyx wrote: »
    Agreed.  To a point.  But there's nothing "Universal" about USB.  That's the point.  It's a mess of different cables with different connectors.  I could deal with a few, a larger desktop device connector and a mini connector, for example.  I do a lot of backpacking and carry a Powerfilm solar panel with a USB car charger to charge my Steripen (water purifier), headlamp, portable speaker, and iPhone.  Wouldn't it be nice if I could carry one standard cable?  My portable speaker uses one kind of mini USB, my headlamp and Steripen use another, and the iPhone uses Lightening.  The promise of a universal cable is just that, a promise.  Sure, cables have gotten a lot smaller and easier to manage than back in the early days, but there are still far too many connectors.  I think they need to drop the U from USB.

    This is the "universal" part of USB... all USB cables plug into this:

    700

    But you're right... the other end of the cable needs help...
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  • Reply 55 of 69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post



    Isn't it sad that because the writer here seemed to give USB 3.1 a fair shake, I automatically knew DED didn't write the article, without checking.



    I've tweeted about wanting reversible USB 4 years ago. This standards body is too slow, they should be pushing to get this sorted in the first quarter of 2014. Frankly, I hope USB kills Thunderbolt, because when we're standardised on a good port everyone wins. Also, the article should have mentioned that not being reversible is a huge blow to Thunderbolt.

     

    Even if USB 3.1 is what is described here, it will still have problems with latency and priority. It is built for packet-based communication. Thunderbolt, much like Firewire, is built for streaming. I expect USB 3.1 - based monitor to delay or skip frames, especially if external devices are connected through it.

     

    Also, Thunderbolt is available since Feb, 2011 (almost 3 years). USB 3.1 standard won't be available for at least 6 months (more like a year). That means commercial availability in 1 to 2 years. 

     

    In the mean time, Apple already utilizes Thunderbolt 2 (20GBps). And if Intel engineers manage to solve issues such as channel bonding, they might push for for the initially promised 100GBps.

     

    On a side note, 4K displays are already on the market. In two years they will be the standard.

     

    So, forgive me for not being overly enthusiastic about USB 3.1, as it won't replace Thunderbolt, nor HDMI. Nor will it replace Lightning for that matter.

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  • Reply 56 of 69
    USB is cross platform, Apple really needs a very large Thunderbolt & Lightning Fork to ever become that.

    So there is no challenge.
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  • Reply 57 of 69
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member

    USB isn't just the port on the accessory, it's the stability of only needing one type of port on your computer for most accessories, and the ease for manufacturers of supporting one protocol.  These have been great news for computing.  

     

    If the USB group hadn't ever changed the connector there would have been gripes for years about how big, and how fragile, and (soon) how unreversible it is.  They're moving with the times, which is good.  And maybe there have been some odd variants through the years, but most people didn't encounter more than the main 3 connectors.  That's a damn sight better than serial pin connectors, parallel printer ports and colour coded PS/2 jacks.

     

    I hope it's good, and I actually hope Apple switch to it too.  Thunderbolt and Lightning are great, but all other things being equal, if I could have a single cable that works with iOS devices as well as other things, I'd choose that.

     

    The power stuff is interesting too.

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  • Reply 58 of 69
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    So how to do you suppose we charge it?

     

    REAL wireless power. Not the induction BS.

     

    …what if there’s something wrong with the device and it won't connect wirelessly?


     

    If there’s something wrong with the Wi-Fi chip, you’ll have to take it in whether or not it has a physical attachment to anything else.

     

    How many people had to use a USB cord to fix their Apple TVs after a update bricked it?


     

    The same number who had Apple TVs that weren’t set up to appropriate their own fixed software using a separate partition. Fact is we don’t need OS discs on our computers anymore; we have the recovery partition. The same will soon be true of mobile devices.

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  • Reply 59 of 69
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    REAL wireless power. Not the induction BS.

    If there’s something wrong with the Wi-Fi chip, you’ll have to take it in whether or not it has a physical attachment to anything else.

    The same number who had Apple TVs that weren’t set up to appropriate their own fixed software using a separate partition. Fact is we don’t need OS discs on our computers anymore; we have the recovery partition. The same will soon be true of mobile devices.

    Does real wireless charging sans induction even possible?

    What part of 'bricked' don't you understand? The partition becomes useless in that case.
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  • Reply 60 of 69
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    Does real wireless charging sans induction even possible?

     

    Yep!

     
    What part of 'bricked' don't you understand? The partition becomes useless in that case.

     

    Right, which is why you’re using the other partition to restore. Did you miss where I said there’s a separate partition for that on Macs?

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