Apple's new Mac Pro a better value than the sum of its parts

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  • Reply 41 of 130
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post



    Now I just wish they did a 2000-2500$ Pro with graphics cards better suited for gaming. These are extremely powerful but don't fare that well in games because they are not leant for it. I mean, that would be my dream machine. Can't wait for the Apple 4K thunderbolt screen too!

     

    They would actually work great for games if the game manufacturers optimized the games like Apple did with Final Cut Pro X. Based on the reviews it is still a very good gaming machine.

  • Reply 42 of 130
    That Power Suppy seems extremely low. No offense, but both cards will top out past 550 W of TDP.

    FWIW: My Linux box:

    AMD FX-8350 Black
    G.Skill 32GB 1866 10-9-10 DDR3
    Gigabyte 990FX-UD3 v3
    Corsair 650D
    Corsair RM 1000W Power Supply
    AMD Radeon R9-290
    Seagate 2TB 64MB Cache Barracuda
    Plextor 128MB M5Pro Xtreme SSD
    Couple WD HDDs

    Then add in an upcoming FirePro and it'll be pulling way more than 650W.
  • Reply 43 of 130
    bocboc Posts: 72member
    Apple has reached the point in design, shipment volumes and volume buying to where they are obviously more competitive on pricing while still offering all their software extras and device integration.

    It is going to become hard for competitors to match Apple going forward.

    I first got a clue about this when my brother's company (hi-tech electro-optics) analyzed all the laptops available for the sales crew and picked the best Windows laptops they could find and settled on the MacBook Air! Nothing else came close, when considering all factors.
  • Reply 44 of 130
    However much a Win machine may drop in price, the Win Crowd would have to pay for the various apps they would use for 'pro' purposes; lest, of course, they just play games and leave it at that.. :) Furthermore, suppose that their machine gets cheaper one day, I bet, Apple would serve the Mac Crowd with another expensive, yet cheap for what it is machine.
  • Reply 45 of 130
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    It can, and I suspect it will be. I assume the reason for Windows getting it sooner is the Windows drivers for those TB2 controllers were developed by the maker of the controllers but Apple is developing their own for the MBPs, which they may not release until they have their own 4K display or some other Appley reason that ultimately seems weird to me.

    Maybe we'll see the driver update in 10.9.2?

  • Reply 46 of 130
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    dugbug wrote: »
    Go ahead and post your work here again please

    wovel wrote: »
    Ok , link one of them then. If there are so many, it should be easy to do. I can't find even one. The only one i have seen even close to that number with similar hardware was using a used CPU.


    To clarify my last point. The CPU in the entry model retails around $1,000 dollars, but a lot of people think it retails for $293 because if you Google it, the first two links you find are at the price. Both of those links are for CPUs pulled from other machines. That is obviously not the right item to compare a new machine too.

    I'm on vacation on my iPhone. I won't have the energy to do that. On IGN I have the same username and some people were posting their findings (among a huge amount of kids complaining that it's more expensive than their PC with a consumer i7). Are you absolutely certain about the CPU? That seems a lot.
    tbell wrote: »
    They would actually work great for games if the game manufacturers optimized the games like Apple did with Final Cut Pro X. Based on the reviews it is still a very good gaming machine.

    Pretty sure it's not true. These cards are certainly not made to speed up certain kind of calculations pertaining to video games, and no software optimization will change the hardware optimization. Indication of that is that with 2GB of VRAM games should run perfectly even on one single card. In reality, some games like Bioshock Infinite run at less than 60fps at ultra (theverge). This is not a problem, they are not made for it. They are not better at gaming than dedicated gaming cards that are less expensive.
  • Reply 47 of 130
    boc wrote: »
    Apple has reached the point in design, shipment volumes and volume buying to where they are obviously more competitive on pricing while still offering all their software extras and device integration.

    It is going to become hard for competitors to match Apple going forward.

    I first got a clue about this when my brother's company (hi-tech electro-optics) analyzed all the laptops available for the sales crew and picked the best Windows laptops they could find and settled on the MacBook Air! Nothing else came close, when considering all factors.


    This is so true...


    For all those mitching and boaning about the high price of the Mac Pro...


    Been there, Done that!

    MacIntosh IIfx

    700



    Release date................March 19, 1990
    Introductory price.......$9,900
    Discontinued...............April 15, 1992
    Operating system........Mac OS 6.0.5-7.1.1(Pro), 7.5-7.6.1
    CPU...............................Motorola 68030 @ 40 MHz
    Memory.........................4 MB, expandable to 128 MB (80 ns 64-pin SIMMs)


    At introduction it cost from US $9,000 to US $12,000, depending on configuration, and it was the fastest Mac available at the time.


    All this plus 6 NuBus Slots, SCSI and ADB/AppleTalk :D

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_IIfx


    FWIW, $9,900 in 1990 Dollars is worth $17,654.04 in 2013 Dollars

    http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=9900&year1=1990&year2=2013
  • Reply 48 of 130
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by realwarder View Post



    Those graphics cards are staggeringly expensive!

    Workstation class gpu's with eec ram are.  Go buy an nvidia kepler workstation gpu or a FireProGL from AMD and you will know what I mean.

    They really do cost that much.

  • Reply 49 of 130
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nathanimal View Post



    A couple of things:





    2. The Windows (and Hackintosh) crowd could build a system that is theoretically close in spec to this machine for thousands less if they forego the workstation graphics cards, which are sold with enormous margins to business users to support them, and so they can make a profit after the razor thin margins of their gaming GPU lineups - many of which have just has much horsepower as the FirePro/Quadro cards, but without the proprietary OpenGL firmware that locks those cards out of using AutoCAD and other such programs.





    All that being said, I agree, for the power user, Apple's new professional system is, for the most part, a clear-cut better value.

    I understand where your coming from but to build a spec for spec workstation class machine windows machines cost a lot more.  go configure an hp Z820 workstation.  for a 12 core there around 14k without a lot of the mac pros features not the least of which is thunderbolt.

  • Reply 50 of 130
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,405moderator
    mechanic wrote: »
    go configure an hp Z820 workstation.  for a 12 core there around 14k without a lot of the mac pros features not the least of which is thunderbolt.

    That one's a dual 12-core but still, if you were to add dual workstation GPUs and the extra power supply required, it would get up to the $14k mark.

    For people who would rather have 24-cores, it's possible to buy two entry 12-core Mac Pros at $6500 each = $13k. HP's cheapest 24-core with a GPU would be just over $10k.
  • Reply 51 of 130
    Too bad they only did the max model, not the min. still 50% increase for price of a machine less successful on use is horrible, now I'm sure people will say getting another machine with even more problems you can get for near price.
  • Reply 52 of 130
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    canukstorm wrote: »
    Maybe we'll see the driver update in 10.9.2?

    I don't plan on buying a 4K display but I'd still like to see the full potential of MBP's TB2 chips to be recognized.
  • Reply 53 of 130
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    I don't plan on buying a 4K display but I'd still like to see the full potential of MBP's TB2 chips to be recognized.

    Spot on.

  • Reply 54 of 130
    I'm fairly certain if I broke into some of those parts warehouses at night I could steal some of those components and build a Mac Pro-class computer for a much cheaper price. Apple has nothing on me. I'm telling ya I can build a more powerful Windows PC for less money than a Mac Pro even if I have to kill someone to do it. Bill Gates is my idol and I can't go out like this. Everyone knows about the infamous "Apple tax" which is basically charging consumers an extra $500 for an Apple logo. Tell me. Does that dinky little Mac Pro look like a real computer for a real man? No! A real workstation-class computer must weigh at least 40 lbs. and be bigger than a bread-box to qualify. I'd suspect anyone wanting a new Mac Pro as someone probably wanting to watch the movie Kinky Boots a second time.

    /s
  • Reply 55 of 130
    Yeah they say they can "build-it" but they cut corners with less powerful specs, like the CHIP, and then a feature like THUNDERBOLT 2.0.

    This machine which people just don't seem to understand is a "Technological Marvell", putting Xeon, USB 3, and Thunderbolt together, with the Video Cards coursing thru the Thunderbolt. This was hard to do, and NOT YET AVAILABLE in a PC Box.

    Good Article! (especially to point that out)

    Laters...
  • Reply 56 of 130
    I'm fairly certain if I broke into some of those parts warehouses at night I could steal some of those components and build a Mac Pro-class computer for a much cheaper price. Apple has nothing on me. I'm telling ya I can build a more powerful Windows PC for less money than a Mac Pro even if I have to kill someone to do it. Bill Gates is my idol and I can't go out like this. Everyone knows about the infamous "Apple tax" which is basically charging consumers an extra $500 for an Apple logo. Tell me. Does that dinky little Mac Pro look like a real computer for a real man? No! A real workstation-class computer must weigh at least 40 Fwiw, they calbs. and be bigger than a bread-box to qualify. I'd suspect anyone wanting a new Mac Pro as someone probably wanting to watch the movie Kinky Boots a second time.

    /s


    ^^^ this s your best!

    FWIW, they call us pansy-pros... Not that there's anything wrong with that!
  • Reply 57 of 130
    Originally Posted by sodaant View Post

    using those GPUs for no really good reason

     

    Uh… they’re the ones in the Mac Pro. Read the article.

  • Reply 58 of 130
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sodaant View Post



    What's funny is that the motherboard they chose doesn't even fit into their case.



    Also, using a $3k SSD when you could have used a $1.2k one, using those GPUs for no really good reason, choosing a dual socket motherboard just because (and then not adding a second CPU) sort of indicate not much research was done for this article.

     

    congrats on your second AI post. you apparently have opposable thumbs.

     

    there's nobody here to take your call right now. please try your call again later.

  • Reply 59 of 130
    y2any2an Posts: 202member
    It's an interesting and fun exercise but flawed. It's buying parts at retail prices so yes a hobbyist would have trouble besting Apple's price. However the article mentions manufacturing costs so if the objective is to find out what a commercial competitor could do, comparable prices need to be at B2B levels which will be far cheaper.
  • Reply 60 of 130
    wovel wrote: »
    One other, somewhat meaningless point. The OWC unit is a card with two PCIe SSDs in it and even the RevoDrive is nowhere near the form factor of the Apple Drive. The early Mac Pro tests also show the Mac Pro transfer rates to the internal drive are about 100MB/s faster than either of those options are claiming.

    I think the faster speeds we're getting on the new MP are due to a RAID stripe set; I believe the MP has two memory sticks. This can be done with the cards from OWC as well as it also has two sticks:
    http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-SSD-OWC-Mercury-Accelsior-speed-vs-SATA6G.html

    Also of note: the PCIe SSD cards from OWC are the only bootable ones, which is kind of a big deal if you want to replace a HDD OSX boot drive.
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Oops! I guess I closed my MBP before that sent and it looks like PhilBoogie has pipped my comment.

    Sorry about that, I usually don't post around the internet pipping people. :D
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