Storage is one area where Apple has a leg up on the do-it-yourself crowd, as the handful of PCI Express-based drives on the market command astronomical prices. OCZ's soon-to-be-discontinued RevoDrive 3 X2 series is the current king of the hill and a 960 gigabyte model would set us back approximately $3,000 --?if we could actually find one for sale.
In a recent AI discussion on the subject I, too, tried to use the RevoDrive to find a comparable PCIe SSD for comparison but later was shown (sorry, I forget who it was) that OWC has a PCIe SSD that is much closer to what Apple charges for the upgrade to 1TB.
I did that months ago. But other people on other websites have a number between 2000 and 2900 $
Ok , link one of them then. If there are so many, it should be easy to do. I can't find even one. The only one i have seen even close to that number with similar hardware was using a used CPU.
To clarify my last point. The CPU in the entry model retails around $1,000 dollars, but a lot of people think it retails for $293 because if you Google it, the first two links you find are at the price. Both of those links are for CPUs pulled from other machines. That is obviously not the right item to compare a new machine too.
Even some of the most virulent c|net Apple haters were commenting on the price of the Mac Pro and how it wasn’t out of line at all when considering the parts list. Of course the dumb ones were already claiming they could build one of their own twice as powerful for a fifth the price. Stupid is as stupid does.
These use 250W each and are around $500 for 6GB versions.
$90 case + $2750 CPU + $1000 GPUs + $540 motherboard + $200 1kW Power Supply (650W would be pushing it for 2x250W GPUs + 130W CPU) + OWC 960GB PCIe SSD $1200 + $840 RAM + $100 cooling equipment + $200 Windows.
Even if you went this route and nearly equivalent components, you're still looking at $6920. While that saves some money from the $9599 Mac ($9240 if you get your own RAM), you end up with a horrible big PC box with hacked together parts that aren't guaranteed to work well - here's a review for that motherboard:
Even in a sort of best-case, the Mac Pro would be under 40% more, which is a small enough premium to get a nicely designed, quiet box with parts tested to work well together.
This comparison method is the same as the technique used by the Microsoft/PC crowd from about 1985 onwards. The argument is generally that you can buy 'equivalent' parts for 25 cents on the dollar, hence Mac is vastly overpriced. This approach is invalid, even when the bits for a PC actually cost more.
What this superficial method overlooks falls into at least 3 distinct areas:
(1) a not insignificant number appreciate elegance in design. Mac has always knocked PCs into a cocked hat on this score. You get what you pay for. It's similar to preferring a Rolex to a Casio, or a Porsche to a Ford.
(2) it's the marriage of good software and good hardware, designed to work together, that leads to a seamless working environment. You need to make both to achieve this at a high level.
(3) computers are tools for the mind. Every objective survey I've ever read puts Mac users at a higher productivity level. In general, therefore, you get more done on a Mac, and any cost difference soon gets mitigated as the return on your investment starts to flow.
Great article that only hints at one the biggest issues in trying to create a WORKSTATION (nods to performance vs price point trade offs that Workstations like SGI, HP, Sun and others created striving for the top end of what can be put on a desktop btw) which is dealing with the Thermal Design. As one who spent decades in HW application support of embedded Intel Processor designs, I have known for a long time that this item, often left to the end of a design (whither it is an embedded PC like a cash register or the Hubble Telescope or just a White Box PC being used for Medical Work) is the Thermal Design. Many an engineer (and or White Box builder) has stumbled at this point by leaving it to the end, like the Lian Li configuration presented, to find it beyond challenging!! Thermal design has to be considered from start to finish! While I have seen talk of a chimney or volcano like themal / Max Tpd solution (the Intel 2000 IDF focused on this subject), never have I seen it executed this this level !! Fan noise is another and Apple address both with design elegance!! A PC that would be deserving to be put in the NY Museum of modern art...
While one might find a lower price for the dual GPU cards or other items like Linux vs Windows, this review peg it with ease - showing the true value of the Mac Pro for the Professional vs a high end "White Box".
What's funny is that the motherboard they chose doesn't even fit into their case.
Also, using a $3k SSD when you could have used a $1.2k one, using those GPUs for no really good reason, choosing a dual socket motherboard just because (and then not adding a second CPU) sort of indicate not much research was done for this article.
None of these 31 responses matters or have Any value at all. Just wait til Tallest Skil gets here to tell you ALL what HE thinks and the rest of you will need to bow down to his grandness.
The price on those graphics cards is obviously ridiculously inflated. If anything this article shows that a comparable system would cost about as much -- which one should expect.
What's funny is that the motherboard they chose doesn't even fit into their case.
Also, using a $3k SSD when you could have used a $1.2k one, using those GPUs for no really good reason, choosing a dual socket motherboard just because (and then not adding a second CPU) sort of indicate not much research was done for this article.
This is AI - you didn't come here expecting an unbiased comparison, did you?
Works great as long as you don't care about driver updates, and if you don't care if the Trackpad works worth a damn (under Windows).
Oddly, I read that the new MBPs have 60Hz 4K video out on the TB2 ports under Windows, yet no support with Mac OS. You have to use the HDMI port and you only get 30Hz.
Oddly, I read that the new MBPs have 60Hz 4K video out on the TB2 ports under Windows, yet no support with Mac OS. You have to use the HDMI port and you only get 30Hz.
It can, and I suspect it will be. I assume the reason for Windows getting it sooner is the Windows drivers for those TB2 controllers were developed by the maker of the controllers but Apple is developing their own for the MBPs, which they may not release until they have their own 4K display or some other Appley reason that ultimately seems weird to me.
Comments
Since a computer is just a toaster without its operating system, we added a Windows 8.1 Pro license that set us back $199.99.
Ah yes. The Windows Tax. $200 isn't much compared to the $14,310 total price.
That's just 1.4% of the total.
But if you're the kind of hobbyist who claims "Ah kin built me a 'puter fer jess two hunnert bucks,"
you're looking at a 50% Windows Tax (for Windows 8.1 Pro, that is.)
Good luck setting all those jumpers.
Go ahead and post your work here again please
In a recent AI discussion on the subject I, too, tried to use the RevoDrive to find a comparable PCIe SSD for comparison but later was shown (sorry, I forget who it was) that OWC has a PCIe SSD that is much closer to what Apple charges for the upgrade to 1TB.
edit: Oops! I guess I closed my MBP before that sent and it looks like PhilBoogie has pipped my comment.
Ok , link one of them then. If there are so many, it should be easy to do. I can't find even one. The only one i have seen even close to that number with similar hardware was using a used CPU.
To clarify my last point. The CPU in the entry model retails around $1,000 dollars, but a lot of people think it retails for $293 because if you Google it, the first two links you find are at the price. Both of those links are for CPUs pulled from other machines. That is obviously not the right item to compare a new machine too.
Even some of the most virulent c|net Apple haters were commenting on the price of the Mac Pro and how it wasn’t out of line at all when considering the parts list. Of course the dumb ones were already claiming they could build one of their own twice as powerful for a fifth the price. Stupid is as stupid does.
They mark up the FirePros considerably and they use different drivers. The DIY builders would probably stick with 7970s:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1594669
These use 250W each and are around $500 for 6GB versions.
$90 case + $2750 CPU + $1000 GPUs + $540 motherboard + $200 1kW Power Supply (650W would be pushing it for 2x250W GPUs + 130W CPU) + OWC 960GB PCIe SSD $1200 + $840 RAM + $100 cooling equipment + $200 Windows.
Even if you went this route and nearly equivalent components, you're still looking at $6920. While that saves some money from the $9599 Mac ($9240 if you get your own RAM), you end up with a horrible big PC box with hacked together parts that aren't guaranteed to work well - here's a review for that motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/SingleProductReview.aspx?reviewid=3870815
Even in a sort of best-case, the Mac Pro would be under 40% more, which is a small enough premium to get a nicely designed, quiet box with parts tested to work well together.
There's another test here with a Dell 4K display:
[VIDEO]
Very quiet even when doing all those things.
What this superficial method overlooks falls into at least 3 distinct areas:
(1) a not insignificant number appreciate elegance in design. Mac has always knocked PCs into a cocked hat on this score. You get what you pay for. It's similar to preferring a Rolex to a Casio, or a Porsche to a Ford.
(2) it's the marriage of good software and good hardware, designed to work together, that leads to a seamless working environment. You need to make both to achieve this at a high level.
(3) computers are tools for the mind. Every objective survey I've ever read puts Mac users at a higher productivity level. In general, therefore, you get more done on a Mac, and any cost difference soon gets mitigated as the return on your investment starts to flow.
As one who spent decades in HW application support of embedded Intel Processor designs, I have known for a long time that this item, often left to the end of a design (whither it is an embedded PC like a cash register or the Hubble Telescope or just a White Box PC being used for Medical Work) is the Thermal Design. Many an engineer (and or White Box builder) has stumbled at this point by leaving it to the end, like the Lian Li configuration presented, to find it beyond challenging!!
Thermal design has to be considered from start to finish! While I have seen talk of a chimney or volcano like themal / Max Tpd solution (the Intel 2000 IDF focused on this subject), never have I seen it executed this this level !! Fan noise is another and Apple address both with design elegance!! A PC that would be deserving to be put in the NY Museum of modern art...
While one might find a lower price for the dual GPU cards or other items like Linux vs Windows, this review peg it with ease - showing the true value of the Mac Pro for the Professional vs a high end "White Box".
Also, using a $3k SSD when you could have used a $1.2k one, using those GPUs for no really good reason, choosing a dual socket motherboard just because (and then not adding a second CPU) sort of indicate not much research was done for this article.
None of these 31 responses matters or have Any value at all. Just wait til Tallest Skil gets here to tell you ALL what HE thinks and the rest of you will need to bow down to his grandness.
What's funny is that the motherboard they chose doesn't even fit into their case.
Also, using a $3k SSD when you could have used a $1.2k one, using those GPUs for no really good reason, choosing a dual socket motherboard just because (and then not adding a second CPU) sort of indicate not much research was done for this article.
This is AI - you didn't come here expecting an unbiased comparison, did you?
This is AI - you didn't come here expecting an unbiased comparison, did you?
No, I just expected a little better research.
And... if you really want to... the Mac will run Windows for you. Probably better than the Windows machine. LOL!
Works great as long as you don't care about driver updates, and if you don't care if the Trackpad works worth a damn (under Windows).
Oddly, I read that the new MBPs have 60Hz 4K video out on the TB2 ports under Windows, yet no support with Mac OS. You have to use the HDMI port and you only get 30Hz.
No, I just expected a little better research.
Just a matter of finding the facts that fit the story...
Oddly, I read that the new MBPs have 60Hz 4K video out on the TB2 ports under Windows, yet no support with Mac OS. You have to use the HDMI port and you only get 30Hz.
This can be addressed with a driver update?
It can, and I suspect it will be. I assume the reason for Windows getting it sooner is the Windows drivers for those TB2 controllers were developed by the maker of the controllers but Apple is developing their own for the MBPs, which they may not release until they have their own 4K display or some other Appley reason that ultimately seems weird to me.