"but the document suggests physical contact with a target phone is required to implant the surreptitious software"
So for this software to work they must have my phone or perhaps bump my iPhone to upload the software or perhaps the software just load itself automatically without me doing a single like the guy who claimed iOS7 installed itself in his home.
?The way I look at it it is much ado about nothing unless one is a iHater.
Well, as others have pointed out, this might be out of date. It's quite possible the NSA can access your phone without physical access now. They were also doing this by rerouting phone shipments and actually hacking into them prior to the customer even getting them.
This isn't much ado about nothing - it's a serious attack on everyone's civil liberties. That it involves Apple is tangential, but will possibly have ramifications for Apple as people (politicians, judges, business leaders) in other countries will have second thoughts about using Apple products.
That the downtime was related to the removal of political threads.
You have to ask Apple, not me, I don't work @ Apple support but all dropoutjeep threads were gone after. Coincident? Maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC
"but the document suggests physical contact with a target phone is required to implant the surreptitious software"
So for this software to work they must have my phone or perhaps bump my iPhone to upload the software or perhaps the software just load itself automatically without me doing a single like the guy who claimed iOS7 installed itself in his home.
?The way I look at it it is much ado about nothing unless one is a iHater.
Let's say that this is true (that NSA can physically intercept a new iPhone to put spyware on it). Can I just re-image the phone when I receive it to remove the spyware?
Let's say that this is true (that NSA can physically intercept a new iPhone to put spyware on it). Can I just re-image the phone when I receive it to remove the spyware?
Who knows outside of the NSA? Just guessing I'd personally think not. A report a couple days back indicated that intercepts of laptops, MacBooks and the like bound for purchasers installed spyware at the firmware level. Reinstalling the OS would be useless as a way to remove it.
I'm of the opinion that it is impossible to make irreparable changes to the iPhone by simply bumping it. Even simple software updates from Apple can take minutes.
Who knows outside of the NSA? Just guessing I'd personally think not. A report a couple days back indicated that intercepts of laptops, MacBooks and the like bound for purchasers installed spyware at the firmware level. Reinstalling the OS would be useless as a way to remove it.
"but the document suggests physical contact with a target phone is required to implant the surreptitious software"
So for this software to work they must have my phone or perhaps bump my iPhone to upload the software or perhaps the software just load itself automatically without me doing a single like the guy who claimed iOS7 installed itself in his home.
?The way I look at it it is much ado about nothing unless one is a iHater.
Well, as others have pointed out, this might be out of date. It's quite possible the NSA can access your phone without physical access now. They were also doing this by rerouting phone shipments and actually hacking into them prior to the customer even getting them.
If you are just going to start rampant speculation, it's also possible that they can access and control every device and computer that you own without physical access first. Or maybe they really can't, and it's just the usual kind of FUD that bored conspiracy theory enthusiasts love to spread.
Given the past and current state of iOS jailbreaking, it probably hasn't been necessary to get Apple's help. Getting the required physical access to the iPhone without alerting the target would still be the greatest challenge.
Given the past and current state of iOS jailbreaking, it probably hasn't been necessary to get Apple's help. Getting the required physical access to the iPhone without alerting the target would still be the greatest challenge.
Folks, where are you guys coming from saying this is just speculation? We have the documents from Snowden. NSA was doing this. They were intercepting iPhones before they even got to customers' hands. Not saying it was your iPhone, but maybe a congress person's. A judge's. A politician who had yet to "tow the line" with regards to the national security apparatus. This isn't speculation, other NSA whistleblowers (Russ Tice) have discussed that he personally held in his hands the paperwork on (then senator) Obama, as well as Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Back when Echelon was first leaked in '88, there was mention that a Republican Senator was being tapped.
This isn't about your iPhone. It's about people who matter (politicians, judges), or who are stirring the pot (activists, civil rights lawyers, etc).
Coolfish, you've just spelled it out in no uncertain terms. Every single politician, police, judge and lawyer is potentially under the thumbscrews of the NSA. Whenever a blatant injustice is done, or a law passed that cannot possibly be constitutional, the question must be asked... Was this person forced or what could possibly be their motivation?
Folks, where are you guys coming from saying this is just speculation? We have the documents from Snowden. NSA was doing this. They were intercepting iPhones before they even got to customers' hands. Not saying it was your iPhone, but maybe a congress person's. A judge's. A politician who had yet to "tow the line" with regards to the national security apparatus. This isn't speculation, other NSA whistleblowers (Russ Tice) have discussed that he personally held in his hands the paperwork on (then senator) Obama, as well as Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Back when Echelon was first leaked in '88, there was mention that a Republican Senator was being tapped.
This isn't about your iPhone. It's about people who matter (politicians, judges), or who are stirring the pot (activists, civil rights lawyers, etc).
I don't think anyone is disputing that they can do this if they get hold of your phone, but that is not a simple matter itself, which probably makes it just as difficult to pull off as any other kind of covert surveillance operation. The phones don't get shipped from the factory destined for an identifiable customer. Maybe with a court order they can intercept online order deliveries, but if you buy it in a store then it's just not going to be feasible at all.
I am more interested in iOS7. It is more sophisticated than iOS 1.x/2.x (and the first iOS SDK) in 2008. What can NSA do today ?
We don't know the internal of iOS7. Maybe it is easier to monitor than the old versions if Apple was secretly coerced and cooperated with NSA? Remember the NYPD was encouraging people to update to iOS7 when it came out?
I don't think anyone is disputing that they can do this if they get hold of your phone, but that is not a simple matter itself, which probably makes it just as difficult to pull off as any other kind of covert surveillance operation. The phones don't get shipped from the factory destined for an identifiable customer. Maybe with a court order they can intercept online order deliveries, but if you buy it in a store then it's just not going to be feasible at all.
Causes one to question the possible roles of FedEx and UPS in this. Do they divert flagged shipments to NSA facilities? If so, are there thousands of NSA locations always at the ready to perform these modifications?
If you have nothing to hide, who cares. The government look at all emails and listen to all telephone calls, they have done for years. They hack into everything without permission because they don't need permission. They have limitless funds and access to the best hackers available and the most powerful computers. They would not need Apple's help.
Then Apple should tell them to **** off, if they don't need their help.
Comments
"but the document suggests physical contact with a target phone is required to implant the surreptitious software"
So for this software to work they must have my phone or perhaps bump my iPhone to upload the software or perhaps the software just load itself automatically without me doing a single like the guy who claimed iOS7 installed itself in his home.
?The way I look at it it is much ado about nothing unless one is a iHater.
Well, as others have pointed out, this might be out of date. It's quite possible the NSA can access your phone without physical access now. They were also doing this by rerouting phone shipments and actually hacking into them prior to the customer even getting them.
This isn't much ado about nothing - it's a serious attack on everyone's civil liberties. That it involves Apple is tangential, but will possibly have ramifications for Apple as people (politicians, judges, business leaders) in other countries will have second thoughts about using Apple products.
That the downtime was related to the removal of political threads.
You have to ask Apple, not me, I don't work @ Apple support but all dropoutjeep threads were gone after. Coincident? Maybe.
"but the document suggests physical contact with a target phone is required to implant the surreptitious software"
So for this software to work they must have my phone or perhaps bump my iPhone to upload the software or perhaps the software just load itself automatically without me doing a single like the guy who claimed iOS7 installed itself in his home.
?The way I look at it it is much ado about nothing unless one is a iHater.
This was in 2008. 5 years is A LONG TIME in IT.
Let's say that this is true (that NSA can physically intercept a new iPhone to put spyware on it). Can I just re-image the phone when I receive it to remove the spyware?
Who knows outside of the NSA? Just guessing I'd personally think not. A report a couple days back indicated that intercepts of laptops, MacBooks and the like bound for purchasers installed spyware at the firmware level. Reinstalling the OS would be useless as a way to remove it.
No, I think this is wrong.
The most terrifying thing is not that the government is illegally monitoring its citizens.
It’s that people like you who believe the above are allowed to vote.
Thanks for telling us that all you have is tin foil.
Indeed. If all the votes I cast end up canceling out the vote of someone who doesn't care, my vote was well spent.
"but the document suggests physical contact with a target phone is required to implant the surreptitious software"
So for this software to work they must have my phone or perhaps bump my iPhone to upload the software or perhaps the software just load itself automatically without me doing a single like the guy who claimed iOS7 installed itself in his home.
?The way I look at it it is much ado about nothing unless one is a iHater.
Well, as others have pointed out, this might be out of date. It's quite possible the NSA can access your phone without physical access now. They were also doing this by rerouting phone shipments and actually hacking into them prior to the customer even getting them.
If you are just going to start rampant speculation, it's also possible that they can access and control every device and computer that you own without physical access first. Or maybe they really can't, and it's just the usual kind of FUD that bored conspiracy theory enthusiasts love to spread.
Given the past and current state of iOS jailbreaking, it probably hasn't been necessary to get Apple's help. Getting the required physical access to the iPhone without alerting the target would still be the greatest challenge.
LAST I HEARD NSA HAS THEM ON PAYROLL
no the spyware is on the firmware
if ever there was an argument for building ones own computer now is the time
Appelbaum looks sooooo cute and huggable when judging software developed by a multibillion $$ company!
Who's next? Oh yeah ... let me see if my dead gran pa (Lord bless his soul) wakes up and bash Apple ....
How do you know?
appelbaum is just talking up his ass, if he is that good a programmer he could have reversed engineered iOS to prove he is right.
Instead he just speculated to get this three minute of fame.
Kind of sad.
Folks, where are you guys coming from saying this is just speculation? We have the documents from Snowden. NSA was doing this. They were intercepting iPhones before they even got to customers' hands. Not saying it was your iPhone, but maybe a congress person's. A judge's. A politician who had yet to "tow the line" with regards to the national security apparatus. This isn't speculation, other NSA whistleblowers (Russ Tice) have discussed that he personally held in his hands the paperwork on (then senator) Obama, as well as Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Back when Echelon was first leaked in '88, there was mention that a Republican Senator was being tapped.
This isn't about your iPhone. It's about people who matter (politicians, judges), or who are stirring the pot (activists, civil rights lawyers, etc).
Folks, where are you guys coming from saying this is just speculation? We have the documents from Snowden. NSA was doing this. They were intercepting iPhones before they even got to customers' hands. Not saying it was your iPhone, but maybe a congress person's. A judge's. A politician who had yet to "tow the line" with regards to the national security apparatus. This isn't speculation, other NSA whistleblowers (Russ Tice) have discussed that he personally held in his hands the paperwork on (then senator) Obama, as well as Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Back when Echelon was first leaked in '88, there was mention that a Republican Senator was being tapped.
This isn't about your iPhone. It's about people who matter (politicians, judges), or who are stirring the pot (activists, civil rights lawyers, etc).
I don't think anyone is disputing that they can do this if they get hold of your phone, but that is not a simple matter itself, which probably makes it just as difficult to pull off as any other kind of covert surveillance operation. The phones don't get shipped from the factory destined for an identifiable customer. Maybe with a court order they can intercept online order deliveries, but if you buy it in a store then it's just not going to be feasible at all.
...
I am more interested in iOS7. It is more sophisticated than iOS 1.x/2.x (and the first iOS SDK) in 2008. What can NSA do today ?
We don't know the internal of iOS7. Maybe it is easier to monitor than the old versions if Apple was secretly coerced and cooperated with NSA? Remember the NYPD was encouraging people to update to iOS7 when it came out?
Causes one to question the possible roles of FedEx and UPS in this. Do they divert flagged shipments to NSA facilities? If so, are there thousands of NSA locations always at the ready to perform these modifications?
If you have nothing to hide, who cares. The government look at all emails and listen to all telephone calls, they have done for years. They hack into everything without permission because they don't need permission. They have limitless funds and access to the best hackers available and the most powerful computers. They would not need Apple's help.
Then Apple should tell them to **** off, if they don't need their help.